Luna_Natsume Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 So I am looking through the "What mod is this" thread, like I do at least once every day... and what do I see? "What awesome armor is that?" "Oh it's mine, but it's not ever going to be released, it's just for me" and... "Whoah, those are awesome hairs, where do I find them?" "It's mine, but I only let a couple of friends have them" and... "That is an amazing face mod, anybody know where I can get it?" "That's my character, but it's one I made just for me, and I wont be releasing it" Is it just me who feels raw about this kind of behavior? I feel like I am pulling up to McDonalds, see the most amazing meal I have ever seen them make on the menu, order it... and then have them tell me, "Sorry, we only make these for us employees and no one else". Doesn't that seem like crap? Hey, if your a modder, and you want to make something for yourself, I feel like you should probably keep it to yourself ... not plaster screenshot after screenshot of your work that you have NO INTENTION of letting anyone else have. It seems like a shitty thing to do, like you just want people to pat you on the back and say "Wow, your awesome" but then deny any of those people the product you created. Am I alone on this? I used to be a commercial artist, making my living through my drawings... if I did one that I was particularly proud of, and wanted to keep it for myself, I didn't walk around the street, waving my sketchbook in everyones face and say "Your NEVER going to get this, it's just for me". Wouldn't that be a dicky thing to do? Am I wrong? I mean, feel free to deposit your two cents. I just felt like I had to get it off my chest, despite the fact that I fully realize this wont change a damn thing, and people will continue to do this regardless. I just had to put my frustrations in words. What do you think?
srayesmanll Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 So I am looking through the "What mod is this" thread' date=' like I do at least once every day... and what do I see? "What awesome armor is that?" "Oh it's mine, but it's not ever going to be released, it's just for me" and... "Whoah, those are awesome hairs, where do I find them?" "It's mine, but I only let a couple of friends have them" and... "That is an amazing face mod, anybody know where I can get it?" "That's my character, but it's one I made just for me, and I wont be releasing it" Is it just me who feels rage and utter disgust at this kind of behavior? I feel like I am pulling up to McDonalds, see the most amazing meal I have ever seen them make on the menu, order it... and then have them tell me, "Sorry, we only make these for us employees and no one else". Doesn't that seem like crap? Hey, if your a modder, and you want to make someting for yourself, I feel like you should KEEP IT TO YOURSELF... not plaster screenshot after screenshot of your work that you have NO INTENTION of letting anyone else have. It seems like a shitty thing to do, like you just want people to pat you on the back and say "Wow, your awesome" but then deny any of those people the product you created. Am I alone on this? I used to be a commercial artist, making my living through my drawings... if I did one that I was particularly proud of, and wanted to keep it for myself, I didn't walk around the street, waving my sketchbook in everyones face and say "Your NEVER going to get this, it's just for me". Wouldn't that be a dicky thing to do? Am I wrong? I mean, feel free to deposit your two cents. I just felt like I had to get it off my chest, despite the fact that I fully realize this wont change a damn thing, and people will continue to do this regardless. I just had to put my frustrations in words. What do you think? [/quote'] Oh dear Darwin. Another rant thread posted outside of a the Rant Thread that will cause pain and consternation. First we get the the rant that everybody is posting crap to the Nexus and now we get a rant that nobody is posting their cool crap to Nexus (or here). Well, let me give you my 2 cents (ok, 1 cent now...) Hey, if your a modder, and you want to make someting for yourself, I feel like you should KEEP IT TO YOURSELF... not plaster screenshot after screenshot of your work that you have NO INTENTION of letting anyone else have. It seems like a shitty thing to do, like you just want people to pat you on the back and say "Wow, your awesome" but then deny any of those people the product you created. They did not deny them the product that was created. The screenshot is available for all to see. So if someone wants to post a screenshot, they must follow your rules? So what, they must uninstall all non-Nexus, non-LL mods, put up with the errors that may crop up from removing the "unofficial" mods, then reposition the characters, and then take the screenshot. Then re-add all the removed mods, putting up with the potential problems from reinstalling, so they can play their game again? All because you can't have something that was in a particular screenshot? Hmmmm, let me think about that... Am I alone on this? Probably not, but you should be. I used to be a commercial artist, making my living through my drawings... if I did one that I was particularly proud of, and wanted to keep it for myself, I didn't walk around the street, waving my sketchbook in everyones face and say "Your NEVER going to get this, it's just for me". Wouldn't that be a dicky thing to do? Yes, that would be a "dicky" thing to do. Frankly if some overexcited "individual" came flapping their sketchbook in my face, talking like that, well I'd probably bitch-slap them into next week for flapping their shit in my face. If I couldn't get them committed for a psych eval for running around flapping sketchbooks (which I don't why, but sounds really dirty to me) and screaming in peoples faces. (Actually just got a strange image of Gilbert Gottfried doing that in my head...) HOWEVER, your analogy is somewhat flawed: If you give away the RESULT of your endeavor (the commercial piece of art), you are not giving away the tools used to create that art (the easel, the pens, paint, ink, pencils, etc), are you? So then if the poster gives away their non-commercial art (screenshot - FOR FREE mind you), why should they give away the tools used to create it? Am I wrong? Yes. I just had to put my frustrations in words. No, you really didn't. However, there is a perfectly nice little Rant Thread in the next county where you can post things like this... What do you think? I think I need to stop reading and responding to posts like this because one day I will say what I really feel and I will never be allowed back here again... Oh, and I think you are wrong, and people should be able to post screenshots here regardless if they decide to share the tools used to make them or not. What do you think we are? Nexus?
dobmc Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 Yea not all but I still agree with you're opinion. I feel the need for people who asks the origin of these mods to have some knowledge of what their asking. One example regarding the user Endiness and his screenshots he post weekly that contain his private armor/clothes. You can recognize his style because of his unique ENB and also know the reason why he keeps this armor/clothe mod private. Its a question that cannot be answered so then why ask? (I say this because even though some junior users may not know his policy, the members who ask the origin of the mod used in the SS are people who obviously saw the issue and have no excuse in not knowing it) Putting you're career aside however, I question these modders: Why do you post these pictures using private mods or something unique that people would obviously ask about even though you are not going to share it? No matter the reason I can only see selfishness in these modders. Show and tell and sharing is caring is what I say. Some images you may be talking about are users that are not members of loverslab and do not know about the "what mod is this?" thread. So you've got to take that in consideration if you don't. And the problem with this post not being in the rant thread... There are people who create new threads when asking for the mod instead of posting it in the "what mod is this" thread. The difference is that the asking thread is more active than the rant thread and when you start a thread with a theme, the first post in that thread determines the whole discussion in the thread. I mean this by "asking" and "begging" has no limit where as ranting, when someone begins to argue, the who thread is about that single argument.
00ptic Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 So I am looking through the "What mod is this" thread' date=' like I do at least once every day... and what do I see? "What awesome armor is that?" "Oh it's mine, but it's not ever going to be released, it's just for me" and... "Whoah, those are awesome hairs, where do I find them?" "It's mine, but I only let a couple of friends have them" and... "That is an amazing face mod, anybody know where I can get it?" "That's my character, but it's one I made just for me, and I wont be releasing it" [/quote'] It doesn't anger me, but it was funny in a way. It sort of feels like they are just trolling everyone by doing that. Whenever I make a mod for my personal enjoyment (which I never intend to share), it is unlikely that it will show up in a screenshot showcasing that particular mod. To each their own, though.
Seren Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 O these topics are always fun and I have a very clear opinion of it. You compare seeing screenshots with content you can't have with not being able to order a meal that's on a McDonald's menu, but have you considered that you can also see it as an artist showing his/her creation much like a painter does? A painter shows his works, but you can't expect to get your copy of it. (Don't start crap with me about other people making copies/taking a photo. We're talking about the creator and his/her behaviour) As the type of person who doesn't release everything he makes, I feel more of a painter than a McDonald's employee. Mind you, Skyrim may be moddable, but that doesn't mean it was just made for releasing mods to the public. It also allows a form of 3D Art and rendering. Ever seen Poser works? All you get is screenshots too and no one is going to give you their hard-earned pieces of work as it's considered art to produce the scenes. As someone who likes to take screenshots, Skyrim is more of a Poser/3D-rendering program to me than a platform to constantly give out free candy (even though I did release a mod with a lot of content and will release new outfits in the future). It's just a way of maintaining your originality if you see it like I do. Above all, am I the only one who finds this kind of ranting a little childish? I mean, you whine you can't have something you see much like a kid does when his mommy won't get him that one big expensive toy from the toy store. Why do you care so much about what you can and can't get in Skyrim? It's a game, get over it.
StayCool Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 As someone who creates mods and shares them, I feel a need to explain this "Showing and not sharing". I've done it before, still do it, and will continue to do it, despite how frustrated some of you are and will be. When someone creates something, regardless if they're going to share it with the world or not, they want feedback. They want to know what people think. Just because they show you what they've made, does not make them obligated to share it with you. Sometime they want that feeling of people being envious of their work, it makes them feel confident and continue working on projects. Most of the time these people do share some of their works. I honestly wish I could explain this better. I just feel people need to stop complaining about it. The complaining is not going to get the original creator to upload their work. And lets be real, if someone is proud of what they have done, they are going to show it off. We all do this, that doesn't mean I'm obligated to give it to you.
Luna_Natsume Posted November 23, 2012 Author Posted November 23, 2012 LOL Okay, I haven't a clue what Srayesmanll is talking about... something about dirty flapping of books in his face, but there ya go. Anyway, these are quotes from the modder in question, taken directly from the Skyrim "What mod is this" thread. Hairs from the first pic are in my hair pack which is not released. I only shared it with my friends. Biohazard 5 Sheva's fairy tale outfit converted by me. It's not released on anywhere and I plan to keep it for myself. Sorry, mate. So here is my problem, and one I personally feel raw about: To create something, showcase it for the world to see, then tell the world "You won't ever have this"... then why in gods name did you show it off in the first place? What was the point? Did you need an ego stroking? Did you want your e-mail filled up with requests from people you had no intention of satisfying? Did you want to play the part of the mean older sibling who dangles cool toys over peoples heads and tells them 'it's mine, and your never getting it'? I mean, I just don't get where these people are coming from... why do that? In regards to the whole endiness deal, yeah, I get his motives... he's afraid of putting LL in danger by releasing poser ports he paid for. It's like the whole 'music sharing' argument all over again. So I get it, even if I don't particularly agree with it. In regards to Srayesmanll's 'artists tools' analogy... wtf? No, not really. The pencils and brushes would be '3dmax' or 'blender'... the armor, hair, character, ect... would be the art. The screenshot is just that... a picture of the art, or a 'print' as it were. If I take a picture of a sculpture and hand them out to people, the photo isn't considered 'art', it's a picture OF 'art'. Now if I were to hand out those photos of the sculpture, and tell people that they will never be able to see it showcased in any gallery, or museum... and then on top of it, tell them that it's mine and nobody but myself and a few select friends will ever see it... don't you think that's a little ridiculous? This is what I am talking about, plain and simple. Why go to all the trouble of taking those 'photos' of your work, if all your going to do it show it off to people and then tell them they will never get to enjoy it for themselves? Why? Explain to me the point, please, because it seems impossible to wrap my head around. The ONLY motivation I can even imagine would be plausable, is a pure unadulterated need for ego stroking. It's just hard for me to imagine that a person would need that much validation. Anyway, I just don't get it. LOL
Luna_Natsume Posted November 23, 2012 Author Posted November 23, 2012 you are just pissed that you can't get you hands on those mods thats all' date=' you sounds like a lil kid that don't get what he wants from mommy and daddy [/quote'] LOL Your opinion is slightly biased, considering you took down all the links you posted because you felt you didn't get enough 'thanks'. Funniest thing is, you didn't even create the mods you posted... so it's hard for me to take you seriously when you say I am 'like a lil kid'.
srayesmanll Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 I am going to rephrase my first post from here without looking at the other following posts just yet. My first post was done at 3am, after load of turkey and ham, after 5 good and 1 really bad beer, and while worrying about my friend (his mother's funeral was today), and was probably more snarky than intended (although a little snark never hurt anyone ). So let me rephrase: I don't agree with your rant. Basically screenshots are done for 1 of 2 main reasons: 1) A person is advertising something with their screenshot. What I mean by that is they think something is cool within the screen and want to display that item. For example, some new cool looking armor. So they post the screenshot saying "what do you think of my cool new armor" (or something similar and not quite as dorky). Now if someone comes up and asks "where can I get that sword in the screenshot" (notice not that armor), then the author says that it's a private mod, then it's tough noogies to person asking. If someone asks "where can I get that armor", and the author replies "you can't, it's a private mod", it is still tough noogies to the requesting person, but in that case, the original author of the screen shot is being kind of a jerk. However, it still tough noogies because there is nothing that says a screenshot author has to use things readily available to anybody. 2) The screenshot author is posting the screenshot just to show off something that they think is beautiful (or ugly, or whatever). Not anything specific within the screenshot, just the overall beauty of it. In that case, it's totally a tough noogies to anyone asking about parts of the screenshot. If the author wished to share what they used to create the screenshot, they can. If they don't, tough shit. The screenshot author is providing something they want to share as a whole, not as a collection of parts. If it uses private mods to get the look the author wanted for that screenshot, too bad. Remember also that it may be that they CAN'T share the mod (possibly for legal reasons), so they can only share the screenshots using that mod. My final thought is this: Do you really want to prevent people from displaying some beautiful screenshots just because the author won't or (soemtimes) can't share the mods used to create them? That is a form of censorship, which is not looked favorably upon here by most LL members. Also, the reason I suggested this belonged in the Rant Thread rather than a GENERAL DISCUSSION thread is that here, the "general discussion" usually devolves into really boring tennis match of you're right, you're wrong, you're right, you're wrong, you suck, no you suck, no you do, let's get back to the subject, you're right, you're wrong, you suck, you suck harder, you're momma, OK thread shut down by moderator. At least in the Rant Thread, everyone knows it's a rant, the author blows off some steam, everyone goes about their merry way, without some douche like me coming in an sometimes stirring the pot for shits-and-giggles.
srayesmanll Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 OK, I've now read the other posts, and am ready to comment. And these might get a little snarky: Yea not all but I still agree with you're opinion. I feel the need for people who asks the origin of these mods to have some knowledge of what their asking. One example regarding the user Endiness and his screenshots he post weekly that contain his private armor/clothes. You can recognize his style because of his unique ENB and also know the reason why he keeps this armor/clothe mod private. Its a question that cannot be answered so then why ask? (I say this because even though some junior users may not know his policy' date=' the members who ask the origin of the mod used in the SS are people who obviously saw the issue and have no excuse in not knowing it) Putting you're career aside however, I question these modders: Why do you post these pictures using private mods or something unique that people would obviously ask about even though you are not going to share it? No matter the reason I can only see selfishness in these modders. Show and tell and sharing is caring is what I say. Some images you may be talking about are users that are not members of loverslab and do not know about the "what mod is this?" thread. So you've got to take that in consideration if you don't. And the problem with this post not being in the rant thread... There are people who create new threads when asking for the mod instead of posting it in the "what mod is this" thread. The difference is that the asking thread is more active than the rant thread and when you start a thread with a theme, the first post in that thread determines the whole discussion in the thread. I mean this by "asking" and "begging" has no limit where as ranting, when someone begins to argue, the who thread is about that single argument. [/quote'] dobmc! My man! Haven't talked to you in a while. I see you still can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're". And after all that time I wasted on you ... Boy, did I get your (see how that's spelled?) panties in such a bunch that it ripped out all the hairs? That's the only thing I can think of that would cause you to create a signature specifically trying (very badly I might add) to insult me. Wow, get some lotion on that... By the way, your signature is wrong. "I called someone a douche, then he started to re-appeal himself to everyone that he's a douche." You did not call me a douche. In fact, your first statement to me was that I was not a douche, but a douche wanna-be. I know revisionist history is fun, but when the original can still be found and used to prove you wrong, you may want to keep to the facts . Also, "And apparently he is tired of his job, so he slacks off on this site. So does that make him a better person on the Internet? Pathetic" Tired of my job? Yes. Slacking off? No. Never said I was slacking off. I was spending time here because there was actually nothing for me to do at work. In fact, after our meeting of the (lack of) minds, we had a project come in, I was able to ignore your useless prattle for awhile. Now, did talking with you make me a better person? Nope, I was a better person long before speaking to you. Pathetic? Maybe, but you're (see the spelling again) the one that kept coming back - wasting your (spelling) time. Is your (see the spelling again) quiver empty yet? O these topics are always fun and I have a very clear opinion of it. You compare seeing screenshots with content you can't have with not being able to order a meal that's on a McDonald's menu' date=' but have you considered that you can also see it as an artist showing his/her creation much like a painter does? A painter shows his works, but you can't expect to get your copy of it. (Don't start crap with me about other people making copies/taking a photo. We're talking about the creator and his/her behaviour) As the type of person who doesn't release everything he makes, I feel more of a painter than a McDonald's employee. Mind you, Skyrim may be moddable, but that doesn't mean it was just made for releasing mods to the public. It also allows a form of 3D Art and rendering. Ever seen Poser works? All you get is screenshots too and no one is going to give you their hard-earned pieces of work as it's considered art to produce the scenes. As someone who likes to take screenshots, Skyrim is more of a Poser/3D-rendering program to me than a platform to constantly give out free candy (even though I did release a mod with a lot of content and will release new outfits in the future). It's just a way of maintaining your originality if you see it like I do. Above all, am I the only one who finds this kind of ranting a little childish? I mean, you whine you can't have something you see much like a kid does when his mommy won't get him that one big expensive toy from the toy store. Why do you care so much about what you can and can't get in Skyrim? It's a game, get over it. [/quote'] Seren: I love you, will you marry me ? Ahem , what I mean is, this is almost exactly what I was trying to go for in my first post (and apparently missed WILDLY). Hopefully I hit nearer the mark with my second post. This was well done. As someone who creates mods and shares them' date=' I feel a need to explain this "Showing and not sharing". I've done it before, still do it, and will continue to do it, despite how frustrated some of you are and will be. When someone creates something, regardless if they're going to share it with the world or not, they want feedback. They want to know what people think. Just because they show you what they've made, does not make them obligated to share it with you. Sometime they want that feeling of people being envious of their work, it makes them feel confident and continue working on projects. Most of the time these people do share some of their works. I honestly wish I could explain this better. I just feel people need to stop complaining about it. The complaining is not going to get the original creator to upload their work. And lets be real, if someone is proud of what they have done, they are going to show it off. We all do this, that doesn't mean I'm obligated to give it to you. [/quote'] Again, if you put a screenshot and say "look at my cool armor in this shot, but you can't have it". It is kind of cruel. However, like I said in my second post, it's also tough noogies. It's your choice to release the tools used to make the screenshot, and if you don't want to, too bad for us. And thank you for a nice screenshot... LOL Okay' date=' I haven't a clue what Srayesmanll is talking about... something about dirty flapping of books in his face, but there ya go. [/quote'] Again, beer, turkey, and sleep-deprived brain. See my second post for a slightly more coherent post. But I still thought the book-flapping comment was funny . Anyway, these are quotes from the modder in question, taken directly from the Skyrim "What mod is this" thread. Hairs from the first pic are in my hair pack which is not released. I only shared it with my friends. Biohazard 5 Sheva's fairy tale outfit converted by me. It's not released on anywhere and I plan to keep it for myself. Sorry, mate. So here is my problem, and one I personally feel raw about: To create something, showcase it for the world to see, then tell the world "You won't ever have this"... then why in gods name did you show it off in the first place? What was the point? Did you need an ego stroking? Did you want your e-mail filled up with requests from people you had no intention of satisfying? Did you want to play the part of the mean older sibling who dangles cool toys over peoples heads and tells them 'it's mine, and your never getting it'? As I said in my second post, what if they can't release the mod for legal reasons. They can still share the screenshots. What is the harm in that... I mean, I just don't get where these people are coming from... why do that? In regards to the whole endiness deal, yeah, I get his motives... he's afraid of putting LL in danger by releasing poser ports he paid for. It's like the whole 'music sharing' argument all over again. So I get it, even if I don't particularly agree with it. And my question is this: why does he get a free pass on this and others don't. Is it possible the other people not providing the mods are doing it for similar reasons? You don't know. In regards to Srayesmanll's 'artists tools' analogy... wtf? No, not really. The pencils and brushes would be '3dmax' or 'blender'... the armor, hair, character, ect... would be the art. The screenshot is just that... a picture of the art, or a 'print' as it were. If I take a picture of a sculpture and hand them out to people, the photo isn't considered 'art', it's a picture OF 'art'. again, beer, turkey, lack of sleep... HOWEVER, you are wrong about one thing here. You say that the armor, hair, is the art, not the screenshot. You are wrong. The whole of the experience is art as well. Your analogy completely misses the mark when add photographers to the mix. Are you saying that Ansel Adams photographs are not art, because all he did was take a picture? So in your estimation, the makeup and wardrobe people are the artists, not annie leibovitz and her stunning portaits, just because she used a camera. Good to know. Hey you, you with the camera! Dump it, Treager says you aren't an artist anymore. Go back to snapping shots of Britney's snatch... Now if I were to hand out those photos of the sculpture, and tell people that they will never be able to see it showcased in any gallery, or museum... and then on top of it, tell them that it's mine and nobody but myself and a few select friends will ever see it... don't you think that's a little ridiculous? Is it your sculpture? Then yes, yes you can do that. Is it a dick move? Possibly. Or as StayCool said, you may just want to show it off. And as I said, yeah it can be a little cruel, but it's basically tough shit for us if you don't want to share. Also, what if the sculpture is of someone who asked you not to display the sculpture, but you were allowed to photograph it and show the photo. We might still think it's cruel, but you would have no choice in the matter would you. This is what I am talking about, plain and simple. Why go to all the trouble of taking those 'photos' of your work, if all your going to do it show it off to people and then tell them they will never get to enjoy it for themselves? Why? Explain to me the point, please, because it seems impossible to wrap my head around. The ONLY motivation I can even imagine would be plausable, is a pure unadulterated need for ego stroking. It's just hard for me to imagine that a person would need that much validation. Anyway, I just don't get it. LOL You get to enjoy the aesthetics and beauty of the "photograph" of it. And yes, the "photograph" is art in and of itself. Why is that not enough? As far as the ego stroking, well I wouldn't mind having my ego stroked once or twice a day (damn, went dirty again).
Endiness Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Besides some body mods/textures/animations/scripts, I haven't seen much in the way of original content, so I don't see how anyone is keeping anything from the public. You can get/rip content from your games easily in most cases, so I don't see why you couldn't convert it yourself if you want it in your Skyrim. Same goes for hairs made for the Sims games. Here's a good blog . Hair can also be categorized by Author, which makes finding things easier. I remember using geom importer scripts, but I think the TSR workshop can export meshes in .obj format, which should be easier. Poser content is publicly available. For the original content that is out there, you would have no choice other than to replicate it yourself. I don't see much argument here as most original content has been shared and released through steam, nexus, and here. It's shame that some people can't appreciate all the weapons, armors, outfits, etc. that is made from scratch on Nexus. It gets really sad reading the comment section.
Jexsam Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Depends on the intent of the screenshot. If the person is posting it to say "Here's a pretty screenshot", just to be posting a pic they took, then I have no problem with it. I do this one anytime I post with my Altmer summoner. It's not to lord his custom retex Archmage outfit over anything, it's just something I made for him that he happens to wear a lot. If the person is posting it to say "Here's a mod I have and you don't! NYAH NYAH!", just to troll everyone with what they have that you can't, then they're a dick.
dobmc Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 As someone who creates mods and shares them' date=' I feel a need to explain this "Showing and not sharing". I've done it before, still do it, and will continue to do it, despite how frustrated some of you are and will be. When someone creates something, regardless if they're going to share it with the world or not, they want feedback. They want to know what people think. Just because they show you what they've made, does not make them obligated to share it with you. Sometime they want that feeling of people being envious of their work, it makes them feel confident and continue working on projects. Most of the time these people do share some of their works. I honestly wish I could explain this better. I just feel people need to stop complaining about it. The complaining is not going to get the original creator to upload their work. And lets be real, if someone is proud of what they have done, they are going to show it off. We all do this, that doesn't mean I'm obligated to give it to you. [/quote'] Had this previously but didn't post it: To me this thread reminds me of the few modders who anonymously and frequently post images on skyrim.jpn.org and like members the OP mentioned. If they want feedback, its better to post it as a thread regardless if their going to share it or not. It doesn't need to be in this site either, a blog could be good infact (love you and you're works JackGa!)The people who share it ultimately make more people happy and influence more people to do the same. Theres more benefit to yourself morally, and these actions make the modding community more unique and special. So why do they do this? for what gain do they get? They obviously don't do this for feedback other than to make people greed for it and I'm specifically targeting the group who doesn't share. Well, there can be a reason if the images are being used for people's pleasure as as… softcore porn(lawl). I don't see any artistic talent either. I never get jealous at these people but I rather see these as more of a nuisance. Other than this their only reason is to attract negative attention which is well, pretty sad in my opinion. And I'm not talking about images that use mods picked up from the nexus/loverslab or any other blog or mod site(well they would probably share it anyways). Its more like: Would you stop posting you're ss so frequently? I don't know what you're trying to prove but everytime I see the image (which I recognize its you by the style), it makes you look less better. I can't even delete it too, its like a undeletable advertisement. -Unless their trolling which in that case, is a really successful troll. I kind of question you're first sentence. So you create mods and share them but you don't…? You troll Xd However what kind of mods do you make and specifically what mods did you make? I remember in the past that I saw you frequently ask on the "what mod is this" thread but I never saw you create a thread to showcase the mods you made. If I'm right you probably are over-exaggerating yourself… hehehehehehehe oh and can you give me an example for a user who showcased his project (on a site that can receive feedback) but didn't share it? I don't see any so far. Also people don't change much so I agree that this thread won't convince the selfish modders. However you're words in the beginning made you quiet… nvm. Oh and Endiness, if you read this post I want to hear you're reason for posting you're screenshots that contain you're private armors onto Skyrim Image uploader(conveniently having a password so it doesn't get deleted too ). We become selfish and all because of our nature however we are also unique from animals being able to think. So we should exercise ourselves to not get limited by human nature. After all, we gotta do the impossible, see the invisible and fight the power.
Luna_Natsume Posted November 24, 2012 Author Posted November 24, 2012 Despite all the points that were made, no one has addressed the true core of the issue: Why selfishly hoarde a mod you created when it does absolutely no harm to release it? More in depth reasoning/example: Example #1. If I were to create my own mod, (let's just say a sexy schoolgirl outfit of my own design) and keep it to myself without telling anyone, no harm is done. Example #2. If I were to create my own mod, take screenshots of it and plaster them up everwhere online, and tell everyone that it's my work and they will never benefit from my artistic talents... does that not make me the poster child for 'dickhead of the year'? Example #3. If I were to create my own mod, take screenshots of it and post them all over nexus/LL and release my armor for everyone to enjoy, literally taking an extra 3 minutes of my time to create the .zip file and uploading it... then joy to all including myself. In the first example, no one benefits other than myself. The same goes for example 2, except now I am not only the only one benefiting, but I am also causing strife to those that see the screenshots and want the mod also. In the third example, EVERYONE benefits, because I get kudos for the mod, kudos for the screenshots of the mod, AND anyone who likes it can get it for themselves to enjoy. I am really not seeing a downside here. The fundamental problem with people NOT sharing their mods, is that there is no problem at all. What do you gain from keeping it all to yourself? What do you lose by sharing it with everyone who loves it? The answer to both those questions is -NOTHING-. So as I stated before, the only reason to show off your creation to everyone, and then deny them afterward... is because of some kind manipulative ego-centric need for validation. What other possible reason could there be? PS: Dude, my wife does artistic photography as a hobby. I completely acknowledge photography as a valid artform, but your taking my statement completely out of context... big surprise. What I said was... taking PICTURES of ART isn't considered art. If you take a picture of the 'Mona Lisa', or of Jackson Pollocks 'No. 5', or of Dreamworks 'Shrek', those photos aren't 'art'. However, I recognize an photographic artists ablility to capture a beautiful composition or snap a perfect moment, or even compose a ballet of light and shadow in a powerful way... but honestly these screenshots that people are asking about in the 'what mod is this' thread, arent interested in the composition, they are asking about the unique weapon/armor/character in the pic. So for the last time I ask, why not make it available to the public? What can possibly be had by keeping it all to yourself?
Phelps1247 Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 I agree 1 and 2 are pretty crap. Releasing a character would depend on the situation. My soon to be Oblivion character is made up with stuff from 5 different people (or more), I couldn't share.
dobmc Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Even though the original author allows you to use the resources freely I still don't have haven't got answer to why you feel like posting these screenshots on the image hosting site. Or do you do that because you feel like it? Wait a minute, lets get deeper. You do it because you think your contributing to the Internet, or do you do this because you know you have the right to do it anyways? Or is it because other anonymous users are doing the similar stuff? Please be one of them... And I'm not asking you to share it. I'm asking you to stop posting it or at least, do something different. Cause I really didn't want to care and now its becoming more like a nuisance. In other words its getting annoying. Because you post the screenshot so frequently now (even posting the images is odd already), the initial reaction I have when I see the images is disgust. Can you take my words and keep the goodie to yourself? Yea I know you didn't created it, and theres nothing wrong with liking the original authors work. You're obviously not promoting it. And you are given the right to use it for anything. Porting it for yourself is nothing wrong. But the frequent screenshots that are rather getting annoying? Theres nothing wrong with that obviously, and its the Internet, so you obviously can do stuff without caring about how some people feel. But do you get my point? Even you're intentions could be different your acting in a really odd manner and... bull. And when I say advertisement I don't mean the literal advertisement but rather its behavior of poping randomly to the usual sites you visit(youtube etc.) and show boring content or decent content that turns into just an annoyance after seeing it for lets say... more than 10 times? Oh yea and this is what I mean by "frequent" screenshots" Probably missed one or two however these are you're screenshots from what I can see from the thumbnail: http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/144/14488.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/144/14486.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/144/14432.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/144/14433.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/144/14417.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/144/14416.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/144/14415.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/143/14353.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/143/14354.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/143/14305.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/143/14306.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/141/14186.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/141/14132.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/139/13942.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/139/13916.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/138/13866.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/138/13844.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/137/13788.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/137/13781.jpg This could be also http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/137/13795.jpg These ss are from the beginning of November to the 22. Almost a image/day. Damn. You're total(maybe) screenshots in October http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/135/13573.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/135/13517.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/134/13477.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/134/13494.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/134/13429.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/133/13373.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/133/13320.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/133/13317.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/133/13304.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/132/13240.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/132/13222.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/131/13182.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/131/13133.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/131/13127.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/131/13130.jpg http://skyrim.jpn.org/images/130/13097.jpg less frequent but I noticed that there was more other images posted like MegaLoves mod screenshots. But you can notice the increase in frequency? And damn that's alot of armors converted too.
Soulsemmer Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 I don't have paragraphs to say on this, and I've nothing against Endiness; I picked up Skyrim again just after that boat had sailed, it seems. But yes, it does irritate me. I know what the OP means, I think, as I get frustrated too. I guess I just don't really understand creating something and not wanting to share it. When I create things, I like to share them, but I suppose that is just the person I am. I really do hope people will start to come around and share their mods, because after a point it does start to feel like some of them are being rubbed in our noses. At least we have some people like Belisariu doing a damn fine job with his conversions and the like.
Veta Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 I believe that Treager has a point , this is a modding COMMUNITY and if you can you should share what you make otherwise why should everyone else share their work maybe the Doc and everyone working on slavers guild (or the many other great mods) should just keep it to themselves .
GHJKL Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Lets take a look at the economics of modding. Basically there are two factors which decide if someone is willing to share his mod. What the the modder gains, recognition, a good feeling for helping others, proud of what they made, etc. and what the modder loses, exclusivity, etc. When the gains for a modder are bigger than the losses he would (theoratically) share the mod. The problem is that the things he could gain like recognition, and that proud feeling can be arcieved without shareing by just posting the screenshot, also this will not affect his exclusivity of his mod. There seem to be little need to share the mod. But that sharing may all depend on other factors then, like the good feeling you could get from sharing your mod and knowing you made the game of others a little bit better. But this good feeling might be completly ofset because some people act like entiteled childeren (which sadly also is the vocal majority) like OP (in this case) So things like: your mod completly fucked up my game because I didn't read the instalation instructions, you are obviously at fault. Yeah, can you make a sexy flaming racoonsuit next, thanks in advance. Your mods are lorebreaking, make the mod I want, not this shit. Your mod is bad, here let me tell you how to do it, even though I have never made a mod before. There are already so many mods like this, stop making mods like these because it shows up in the list of mods and now I have to read the name of the mod which is obviously too much trouble. So the good feeling of helping people can be completly diminished because of these entiteled assholes. It all depends on what the modder thinks is more important, those few people who say thanks or those loads of wankers who whine about everything. If they feel unapreciated they have no innitative to share their mods. [rant end] (stupid entiteled assholes are (one of) the reaon(s) that cyanide and jammer quit their awesome mod. you should all feel bad about yourselves if you have done something like that) TLDR: OP is an entiteled child and if there were less people like OP maybe there would be more people who share their mods.
Wadarkhu Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 OP sounds entitled, sure, but he also shouldn't have to ask. There's really no reason not to share. Everyone is using TONS of mods, and it's all accomplished by sharing. You should share, but you should not demand sharing. In two words: be considerate.
gregathit Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 I personally don't understand any of the "look what I have" nonsense. I don't have any problems with folks doing it, but I just don't understand it. Someone shared the tools for you to create your mods, so why hog them? If you are modding to gain recognition, then you are doing it for the wrong reason and it is just a matter of time before the train wreck happens. Folks need to mod because they enjoy it. Period! Any other reason will just lead to bitterness and butt hurt feelings from yourself and others. Remember that this is a hobby we do for enjoyment and you'll be able to keep the right perspective.
GHJKL Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 I personally don't understand any of the "look what I have" nonsense. I don't have any problems with folks doing it' date=' but I just don't understand it. Someone shared the tools for you to create your mods, so why hog them? If you are modding to gain recognition, then you are doing it for the wrong reason and it is just a matter of time before the train wreck happens. Folks need to mod because they enjoy it. Period! Any other reason will just lead to bitterness and butt hurt feelings from yourself and others. Remember that this is a hobby we do for enjoyment and you'll be able to keep the right perspective. [/quote'] I agree that there is no reason not to share, but that by bitching on those who did share their mods you are not making more people share their mods. Also I completly agree that they should enjoy modding. But I believe that there are other parts they also need to enjoy. They need to enjoy making screenshots and posting them if they are going to post screenshots. And they need to enjoy opening up their mod for other people if they want to share their mod. Modding is not sharing, And a person can enjoy modding without needing to share it. So I was mainly talking about when the process of sharing is enjoable for the modder, and if it is he may be willing to share more.
srayesmanll Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 gregathit: You are almost right when you say: If you are modding to gain recognition' date=' then you are doing it for the wrong reason and it is just a matter of time before the train wreck happens. Folks need to mod because they enjoy it.[/quote'] What you should have said was "If you are [edit]sharing your mod[/edit] to gain recognition, then you are doing it for the wrong reason and it is just a matter of time before the train wreck happens. Folks need to [edit]share their mod[/edit] because they [edit]enjoyed making it and WANT to share it[/edit]." ------------------------- We seemed to have devolved into a discussion of "creating a mod" so I'll give my opinion on that. The purpose of creating a mod is so that that I can change MY game to the way I want to play. That's really it. I mod MY game for ME. Sharing any mods I create with others is done for different reason, IF I want to share them. Some people may not want to share because it's too personal (maybe the armor was designed by a loved one and they want to keep it for themselves - I know that's a bit of a reach, but we are talking about personal feelings, so you can never tell). They may not want to share because they CAN'T (I've made this point a couple of times but it seems to get ignored - if someone has taken a mod that cannot be reposted anywhere and the screenshot author made their own modifications to it that they are using within THEIR game, they still can't share the mod without permission). They may not want to share it because it sucks or is broken. They may not want to share it because it is incomplete. They may not share it because they don't feel it worth sharing. They may not want to share because (paraphrasing GHJKL here) they don't want to put up with the bullshit they would get posting their mod. There are MANY reasons why someone doesn't "share the wealth". They might however want to share the screenshot thinking that someone may enjoy seeing the image as a piece of art, not realizing that people on a mod site like Nexus and LL see all screenshots as personal shopping lists for their own games. (Damn it! I was trying not to be snarky with this post...) But let's return to the ACTUAL OP issue: Someone sees a screenshot SOMEWHERE out in the world, copies it to a thread here asking what mods were used, gets told that that armor/sword/face/body/nipple/palm frond/whatever was from a personal mod that the screenshot creator uses, and the OP and others get upset because they can't have that mod as well. That is what the first post boils down to. The OP had 4 original questions on this: Doesn't that seem like crap? Maybe: 1) If the original screenshot (not the repost in the "what mod..." thread, but the original posted location) is on site that is specifically designed for the sharing of mods seen in screenshots, or in a thread on a mod site that specifically requests that the pieces used within a screenshot must be available, then yes it is "crap" if the screenshot author says "nope, can't have it". 2) If the original screenshot is posted on a mod site where no such declaration exists, then it depends on what thread it was originally posted in. If the thread was one where the point of the screenshots was to showcase something in the screenshot like armor/weapon/face/body/etc, and the author says "no", then it is kind of a dick move BUT it is still a "tough shit" scenario because no one said they couldn't. If it's a thread for showing screenshots with no other purpose, then too bad. The purpose of the thread was to display screenshots, not create a shopping list for people looking at it. Am I alone on this? Apparently not, which was disappointing in and of itself... Am I wrong? I mean, feel free to deposit your two cents. I just felt like I had to get it off my chest, despite the fact that I fully realize this wont change a damn thing, and people will continue to do this regardless. I just had to put my frustrations in words. Yes, but it's intriguing that the OP claims that this was just a rant, and that nothing will change, yet comes back several times to reiterate his point, apparently hoping that something will change. So it wasn't just a rant then... What do you think? Again, this is what I think. If someone posts a screenshot in a thread with no governing rules ("Please only post screenies with stuff I can use..."), then there should be no expectation that ANYTHING used in the screenshot should be available. And if it isn't, do your shopping elsewhere (another thread or another post, I am not saying "go away"). If it's a thread where the governing principal is to show off something WITHIN the screenshot (armor, sex, sword, etc), then it would be preferable to post screenshots where the primary objects within the screenshots are readily available to the viewer. But again, it really isn't required.
gregathit Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 srayesmanll, you are splitting hairs. Modding as I stated it, was meant in a general sense. It doesn't matter if you are creating outfits\landscapes\architecture from scratch or just making mashups of existing items for your screenshots. It is all modding. No one takes screenshots of "vanilla" stuff. ----- As I said before if you are modding then do it for your own amusement. However, you need to realize that when you post it online, you should be prepared to share it. To taunt others is a dick move, no matter what type of "artsy" label you want to hide behind. If you aren't willing to share the mod, then don't post the screenshots. All that says is "look what I have that you can't have". I find it difficult to even fathom why folks can't see why that is irritating to others. Now, as I said before, this is simply my opinion. As such it is neither wrong nor right, but the way I see things. I do understand that folks will continue to post pictures of stuff they won't or can't share and I will just ignore them and their screenshots. This is just life, and we should all know by now that life, she just isn't fair.
Luna_Natsume Posted November 25, 2012 Author Posted November 25, 2012 I think what rubs me the wrong way about your -opinion- Srayesmanll, isn't the snarkiness or the completely condescending tone you wield like a battleaxe... it's that you recite your -opinion- as fact, and anyone who contradicts your -opinion- is treated as a lesser being. Your entitled to your -opinion-, but that also allows me to be entitled to my own. I was merely remarking on how displeased I was with the practice in question and asking for others to voice their frustrations or at least explain the reasoning. I certainly didn't resort to calling anyone 'childish', or 'entitled', or even say anyones remarks or -opinions- were wrong. My intent was not to debate you, or anyone else about the matter. I simply wanted to gain some insight on the subject at hand. Points of interest: 1. Should modders share mods that they make public through numerous posted screenshots of said mods? 2. Does anyone feel slighted by modders posting screenshots of their mods, and refusing to share them? 3. Is the practice of posting screenshots of 'restricted' mods, just as bad as sharing the mod itself? (Nexus seems to think so... just ask the numerous banned that populate LL) 4. As a modder, do you gain something from exclusivity versus sharing? 5. As a modder, do you gain something from 'showing off' your mod, only to deny it from everyone who would like to enjoy it? Really, I think these are the primary points I was/am curious about. Now remember (Srayesmanll, this is for you... so pay attention ) I am asking for -OPINIONS-, I am not looking to 'solve' this 'problem'. Just attaining perspective and knowledge to grow as a human being. So, yeah... unclench your ass, and mellow a bit will ya?
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