Good tutorials for CK? (To create a custom follower)

[Nazzzgul666]

I've finally decided to try if i can get something done myself instead of just always requesting it. What i want to have is a follower with custom dialogues, and he needs an AI package that makes him following you (or at least appearing in the same places sometimes) before you hire him. I've watched two tutorials now on YT and they covered the basics, but... honestly dealing with creation kit is what prevented me all the time even to start doing anything. I've done some coding before and i'm confident i can learn papyrus scripting easy enough, but all these options in CK and not knowing what does what or what even exists already... 

There is no lack of tutorials either, actually i feel a bit overwhelmed and i have no clue what might or might not be important to reach my goal. So i'd be grateful for hints.

 

*edit: also grateful for any hints about setup and stuff, for now i just have another installation of Skyrim so i won't fuck up my game.

[worik]

I am asking myself similar questions...

 

I recently found a good guide from CPU and what Grey Cloud added earlier today.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/89338-solved-guide-to-convert-a-player-character-into-a-npc

 

Regarding the CK; i colelcted some tutorial URLs for my own learning:  https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/7679-window-peeking-or-how-do-i-learn-to-love-the-creation-kit

The ones from Darkfox are the most promising I saw, yet. (see  his CK NPC Tutorial)

Anyway .. it takes time ... a lot of time to see everything and try it all out for myself Very difficult with a busy RL

 

42 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

*edit: also grateful for any hints about setup and stuff, for now i just have another installation of Skyrim so i won't fuck up my game.

Are you into ModOrganizer? If so, I can help with my own setup so far :

• I created a CK profile for editing purposes as a copy from my main game profile
• You need to edit your Skyrimedior.ini and skyrimeditorprefs.ini a bit .. usually. My example here: https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/7765-entrails-under-the-hood-my-ini-files/

 

Edit: I will post my toolbox collection later today or tomorrow. Maybe it can help, too.

 

[Psalam]

Spoiler

42 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

I've finally decided to try if i can get something done myself instead of just always requesting it. What i want to have is a follower with custom dialogues, and he needs an AI package that makes him following you (or at least appearing in the same places sometimes) before you hire him. I've watched two tutorials now on YT and they covered the basics, but... honestly dealing with creation kit is what prevented me all the time even to start doing anything. I've done some coding before and i'm confident i can learn papyrus scripting easy enough, but all these options in CK and not knowing what does what or what even exists already... 

There is no lack of tutorials either, actually i feel a bit overwhelmed and i have no clue what might or might not be important to reach my goal. So i'd be grateful for hints.

 

*edit: also grateful for any hints about setup and stuff, for now i just have another installation of Skyrim so i won't fuck up my game.

 

 

I am in the process of just completing my first follower so I have some experience, on the one hand, but I claim no special expertise on the other hand. I've watched all sorts of tutorials and learned something from all of them but I can't stress how much there is to learn from the tutorials in the CK itself. For the most part everything that you need is already in there, although I often needed to watch a tutorial to appreciate what was being said. Like modding Skyrim there are many ways to do it right and far more to do it wrong. I set my sights on simple goals and built upon what I accomplished and would encourage you to do the same. Start with the idea of JUST building a unique follower. Other things, like arranging their packages and scripting can come later. If you can make the follower, believe it or not, you are over halfway there.

[Nazzzgul666]

Thanks a lot to both of you, especially @worik, those links sound very useful (yes i'm into MO), i'll check them out.  

 

@Psalam If i may ask, which kind of follower do you create? I suspect we might think similar.  

What i want to have is a reason to take a follower, in common gameplay i don't really like them and with mods like DF and the new cursed loot feature... well. I like it, but my toon has to be mad to hire somebody with all those consequences. So my idea is to make an NPC that will start following you after he sees you the first time and reports any crimes you commit hidden or not - including sex. Maybe he'll even "accidentially" alert enemies in some range, then run away and leave you a while with the consequences, but that would be a second step.

The point is, you need to "hire" him to prevent spending all your time in jail, so this behaviour is pretty much essential for what i'd like to have. Plus he'll stay mean and humilating even after hiring him. For later i have bigger plans for quest lines, but so far the AI and mean dialogues are the reason i want to do it so getting this done somehow is really what i want and afaik doesn't exist yet.

[Psalam]

Spoiler

15 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Thanks a lot to both of you, especially worik, those links sound very useful (yes i'm into MO), i'll check them out.  

 

@Psalam If i may ask, which kind of follower do you create? I suspect we might think similar.  

What i want to have is a reason to take a follower, in common gameplay i don't really like them and with mods like DF and the new cursed loot feature... well. I like it, but my toon has to be mad to hire somebody with all those consequences. So my idea is to make an NPC that will start following you after he sees you the first time and reports any crimes you commit hidden or not - including sex. Maybe he'll even "accidentially" alert enemies in some range, then run away and leave you a while with the consequences, but that would be a second step.

The point is, you need to "hire" him to prevent spending all your time in jail, so this behaviour is pretty much essential for what i'd like to have. Plus he'll stay mean and humilating even after hiring him. For later i have bigger plans for quest lines, but so far the AI and mean dialogues are the reason i want to do it so getting this done somehow is really what i want and afaik doesn't exist yet.

 

 

No my follower is primarily the helpful kind. She fights like a spellsword and has sex at the drop of a hat (and is not afraid to drop the hat herself).

 

There are follow packages (as distinct from being a follower) that would allow you to make an NPC that would follow you WITHOUT being an ally necessarily. I am uncertain as to whether the follower (as distinct from following) relationship would override the following package (it appears that everything else does) but if it didn't you should still be able to overwrite by making it a quest. You are likely to wind up with a fairly goody-two-shoes follower even after hiring though (like Annekke Crag-Jumper always telling me "no, I won't do that" or "you shouldn't be in here') although this could also be worked around I believe. Virtually everything that YOU describe should be possible with "vanilla" modding (by which I mean, little or no scripting) so put your efforts into the basics of the system and just breeze over (don't ignore completely) scripting for now. At least all that would be my advice.

[Nazzzgul666]

7 minutes ago, Psalam said:

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so put your efforts into the basics of the system and just breeze over (don't ignore completely) scripting for now. At least all that would be my advice.

That's the plan so far, and probably the hard part for me.^^ It's been a while since i actually did some coding, but at least i don't really have to care about security holes... if somebody wants to hack my mod, i just wish success.  So it shouldn't require me to bend my brain around a lot of the "what might go wrong" stuff too much once i can start with custom scripts.

[Psalam]

Spoiler

1 minute ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

That's the plan so far, and probably the hard part for me.^^ It's been a while since i actually did some coding, but at least i don't really have to care about security holes... if somebody wants to hack my mod, i just wish success.  So it shouldn't require me to bend my brain around a lot of the "what might go wrong" stuff too much once i can start with custom scripts.

 

 

I was surprised by how little HAS to be done with any scripting at all. Please don't misunderstand, scripting is what make a lot of our favorite mods do the things we love for them to do. It is just, I really don't want to rewrite SexLab or SLAR, ZAP or DD, or any of the dozens of mods that I use all the time. By making a follower (and by the way, thank you @CPU for your tutorial) I've learned a great deal about how the mods are (or can be made) which increases my appreciation. I now realize how naive a lot of comments to mod authors really sound. 

[Nazzzgul666]

9 minutes ago, Psalam said:

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I was surprised by how little HAS to be done with any scripting at all. Please don't misunderstand, scripting is what make a lot of our favorite mods do the things we love for them to do. It is just, I really don't want to rewrite SexLab or SLAR, ZAP or DD, or any of the dozens of mods that I use all the time. By making a follower (and by the way, thank you @CPU for your tutorial) I've learned a great deal about how the mods are (or can be made) which increases my appreciation. I now realize how naive a lot of comments to mod authors really sound. 

Yeah, i was kinda suspecting that, that's why i had hard times to get started.^^ For me it's harder to learn to deal with a new tool as complex as CK than learning a new language.

I have some plans that will most likely require some scripting, like... when a follower and in battle, my follower is supposed to turn into a female - and stay this way until Defeat is done with both of us. But that's something where i expect all kind of troubles, especially using it with other mods. I'm not sure how pregnancy mods deal with a female NPC that was just impregnated and turns (back) into a male, for example. So that will come much later. Plus i need to add a bacground story and a quest to explain this transformation.

 

[Psalam]

Spoiler

2 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Yeah, i was kinda suspecting that, that's why i had hard times to get started.^^ For me it's harder to learn to deal with a new tool as complex as CK than learning a new language.

I have some plans that will most likely require some scripting, like... when a follower and in battle, my follower is supposed to turn into a female - and stay this way until Defeat is done with both of us. But that's something where i expect all kind of troubles, especially using it with other mods. I'm not sure how pregnancy mods deal with a female NPC that was just impregnated and turns (back) into a male, for example. So that will come much later. Plus i need to add a bacground story and a quest to explain this transformation.

 

 

 

Sounds like big plans. Let me know if I can help.

[worik]

20 hours ago, worik said:

Edit: I will post my toolbox collection later today or tomorrow. Maybe it can help, too.

as promised Here is my toolbox

 

[t.ara]

for papyrus you can use CPU´s guide...and if it comes to be into more detail, ask: CPU, ZAIRA, KIMY, MUSJE, HUGH RECUM..and/or lot of others...

or you do it by learning from other scripts: no.1 for me is BETHESDA itself...you can also change all their existing scripts for own demands...

 

If you have special questions or wishes-let me know.

CK is not as difficult as it is often described-that´s what I think about it in between.

[Nazzzgul666]

4 hours ago, worik said:

as promised Here is my toolbox

 

Not really sure about those two points:

unpackaging scripts.rar as a mod in my left pane

adding the SKYUI SDK as a mod in my left pane

 

Which scripts.rar? From vanilla? How/why would i need them unpacked? And what's the purpose of SkyUI SDK, MCMs?

 

21 hours ago, Psalam said:

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Sounds like big plans. Let me know if I can help.

I'll keep that offer in mind, thanks. Although i guess the point where help would be most useful will be creating (and possibly proof reading) dialogues/comments. I want a follower where things he says fit the atmosphere of Df and such, so no "Oh you nice dragonborn, how can i help you?" but rather "Useless bitch, get out of my way./my money/...." Not neccesarily that harsh, but definitly demanding and without much respect.

Ideally he'd also recognize NPCs from other mods like Paul from BAC, cursed loots dollmaker etc and start a little chat with them if near. Nothing too complicated, just to add a little atmosphere. But again, that's stuff for later and not that high on my priority list.

[worik]

38 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Which scripts.rar? From vanilla? How/why would i need them unpacked? And what's the purpose of SkyUI SDK, MCMs?

Yes, SKYUI SDK is needed if you want to compile mods with MCM (or anything SkyUI-ish in general). So basically, If you don't want an MCM you can skip that part.

 

scripts.rar is the vanilla script collection from Bugthesda and should be found in your Skyrim/data folder. If you want to compile anything with Papyrus, it needs the vailla sources (*.psc) under skyrim\Data\scripts\source

You can do that manually, of course. But since I have MO, I prefer the MO way of things and treat them as a mod to put them at their right place, when I need them. With the effect that my skyrim\data is clean and tidy as a  baby's arse in fresh diapers.

 

 

[Psalam]

Spoiler

32 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Not really sure about those two points:

unpackaging scripts.rar as a mod in my left pane

adding the SKYUI SDK as a mod in my left pane

 

Which scripts.rar? From vanilla? How/why would i need them unpacked? And what's the purpose of SkyUI SDK, MCMs?

 

I'll keep that offer in mind, thanks. Although i guess the point where help would be most useful will be creating (and possibly proof reading) dialogues/comments. I want a follower where things he says fit the atmosphere of Df and such, so no "Oh you nice dragonborn, how can i help you?" but rather "Useless bitch, get out of my way./my money/...." Not neccesarily that harsh, but definitly demanding and without much respect.

Ideally he'd also recognize NPCs from other mods like Paul from BAC, cursed loots dollmaker etc and start a little chat with them if near. Nothing too complicated, just to add a little atmosphere. But again, that's stuff for later and not that high on my priority list.

 

 

And while Worik is right as usual you will also want to get the scripts for SKSE found here:

 

https://skse.silverlock.org/

 

Remember that while Skyrim is fully moddable Bugthesda is well aware that the vast majority of people who will play the game will not be interested in doing so. Therefore, to save space and avoid confusion they packed the files needed for compiling mods into scripts.rar. Here is where I learned all about that:

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/111216-papyrus-flags-missing/

 

As far as actually doing it is concerned I encourage you to not make the mistake I made. If I were to do it again I would unpack the information to a file I created probably in Downloads since that's where I keep most things of a similar nature. I would then copy the information to the necessary folders in Skyrim (see the second link for details). I tried to do it directly to the required file and it got fouled up. I would then do the same thing with SKSE (note that with SKSE there are two types of files to watch out for - but those details are in the link).

 

Finally, I'll be happy to read dialogue if that is what you want. While Ii admire your plans do TRY to stay focused on the basics. There are plenty of little things to trip over in just doing that. Once you have accomplished that everything else will follow.

[worik]

22 minutes ago, Psalam said:

And while Worik is right as usual you will also want to get the scripts for SKSE found here:

I forgot them in my list, my bad!... probably because I had them there since ancient times and never spent a second thought about them.

[Psalam]

Spoiler

5 minutes ago, worik said:

I forgot them in my list, my bad!... probably because I had them there since ancient times and never spent a second thought about them.

 

 

It certainly wasn't meant as a criticism. I just wanted him to have ALL the information that he would need. Actually, if he avoids scripting for the most part he won't need SKSE. There are a few commands that looked interesting but nothing, I think, he wouldn't be able to live without.

[Nazzzgul666]

42 minutes ago, Psalam said:

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Finally, I'll be happy to read dialogue if that is what you want. While Ii admire your plans do TRY to stay focused on the basics. There are plenty of little things to trip over in just doing that. Once you have accomplished that everything else will follow.

Thanks, i'll keep that other stuff in mind. For the big plans... the reason i like the idea to start with that follower is that i can do it so modular.

Step one: create a follower.

Step two: give him a bit of custom dialogue and some more complex, but probably still vanilla behavior.

Step three: expand dialogue and behavior, probably own scripts.

Step 4: add quests, repeat step 3.

Step X: repeat step 4.

 

And at each step i should have a working mod (at least the last stage), so even if i get bored, frustrated or whatever i'll still have at least something that works, and a reasonable learning curve between. And while i plan to release it, i'm doing it for myself in the first place so i'm not in a hurry and i'll do in in my own speed. I really want at least et to step two, but if i think that i'm unable to go further for now... i won't be too much disappointed by myself, and i can go back and continue it any time.

 

But as mentioned, what kept me from even starting was working with CK. Learning papyrus and start to write my own code is what i'm actually looking forward to. I just learned that there is at least another compiler independent from CK, i'm not sure how i'd get my scripts ingame without CK but if it bothers me too much, i'll try. I have some other ideas what i could do too.

[Psalam]

Spoiler

1 minute ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Thanks, i'll keep that other stuff in mind. For the big plans... the reason i like the idea to start with that follower is that i can do it so modular.

Step one: create a follower.

Step two: give him a bit of custom dialogue and some more complex, but probably still vanilla behavior.

Step three: expand dialogue and behavior, probably own scripts.

Step 4: add quests, repeat step 3.

Step X: repeat step 4.

 

And at each step it should have a working mod (at least the last stage), so even if i get bored, frustrated or whatever i'll still have at least something that works, and a reasonable learning curve between. And while i plan to release it, i'm doing it for myself in the first place so i'm not in a hurry and i'll do in in my own speed. I really want at least et to step two, but if i think that i'm unable to go further for now... i won't be too much disappointed by myself, and i can go back and continue it any time.

 

 

I very much like your plan. That's probably because that is exactly what I have been doing. I currently have a follower with a little custom dialogue and a little scripting and am working on adding more of the same.

[GenioMaestro]

23 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

But as mentioned, what kept me from even starting was working with CK. Learning papyrus and start to write my own code is what i'm actually looking forward to. I just learned that there is at least another compiler independent from CK, i'm not sure how i'd get my scripts ingame without CK but if it bothers me too much, i'll try. I have some other ideas what i could do too.

All start in CK... Is a big program, very powerfull, and you can make a lot of things whit it. 

Script is secondary. A lot of times you not need scripts.

Papyrus is a easy languaje, have some special things, like all, but is not complex.

 

You must learn to use CK before learn to make scripts.

Use scripts ONLY for the things that can not be made with CK.

Sometimes you only need a line of code in a fragment inserted in CK.

[Psalam]

Spoiler

1 minute ago, GenioMaestro said:

All start in CK... Is a big program, too powerfull, and you can make a lot of things whit it. 

Script is secondary. A lot of times you not need scripts.

Papyrus is a easy languaje, have some special things, like all, but is not complex.

 

You must learn to use CK before learn to make scripts.

Use scripts ONLY for the things that can not be made with CK.

Sometimes you only need a line of code in a fragment inserted in CK.

 

 

He is exactly right of course and as usual.

 

Good to see you back GenioMaestro.