aifman7 Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Man, I'm disappointed. I don't know what the problem is and I'm at a complete loss. Around 6 months ago I ran into this issue where I would CTD immediately upon approaching the exterior of Whiterun. I had been a little fast and loose with installing/uninstalling mods at that time so I just chalked it up to poor mod handling on my part. Back then I had even disabled every single mod in my load order so I was *only* running vanilla and I still encountered the same problems. Ultimately I figured it must have been some stray files I manually installed incorrectly and gave up the fight. Today I decided to give it another whirl and start from scratch with a fresh install. I completely uninstalled Skyrim, removing everything from the ground up, including .ini files, saves, the whole shebang. After reinstalling (on a new hard drive no less!) I slowly tested out small groups of mods, and using the Alternate Start mod I created a fresh character after each round of installations, starting myself as a patron of the Riverwood Inn so I could quickly run up to Whiterun and verify that I wasn't getting CTD's. All night long, everything was working great. I verified my load order with LOOT and even took the extra precautions to clean up the update .esm's as well as install bugfix patches along the way. I got all of my desired mods installed and loaded up one final time to test out the approach to Whiterun and no CTD's to be found, I could walk right up to the front gate without any issue (just a very minor bit of stuttering as I entered what I assume is the Whiterun exterior cell). Since everything was working correctly, I then closed out the game and went into BodySlide to tweak armors and such to get them to my liking. I get that finished up after an hour or so and load the game up, now ready to sit down and actually play for a while before bed. I do the same as before: Start my character at Riverwood Inn and run toward Whiterun to start the main quest line and it happens. Boom. CTD right as I start approaching Whiterun. I'm at a complete loss. I don't know what could have possibly changed between me finishing the mod installation and tweaking BodySlide that could possibly have any effect on performance around Whiterun. I'm really, really disappointed. Spent about 8 hours on this tonight and I'm about ready to give up entirely. There are hundreds of threads on various forums and websites describing similar CTD issues in Whiterun's exterior but there doesn't seem to be much commonality between them. None of the fixes I tried previously (and I tried many, many, *many* fixes) had any effect whatsoever. One fix I have not yet attempted is unpacking the .bsa files. One forum thread I found discussed that and said that it fixed the problems, but other comments said it didn't help at all and left their Skyrim data folder a total mess as they weren't able to easily repackage the files into .bsa's. I don't want to have to risk another entire day's effort of reinstalling all of this stuff. I don't even have a lot of mods compared to a lot of posters I've seen. Here's my load order: 0 0 Skyrim.esm 1 1 Update.esm 2 2 Dawnguard.esm 3 3 HearthFires.esm 4 4 Dragonborn.esm 5 5 Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp 6 6 SexLab.esm 7 7 Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm 8 8 SexLabAroused.esm 9 9 paradise_halls.esm 10 a Devious Devices - Assets.esm 11 b Devious Devices - Integration.esm 12 c Devious Devices - Expansion.esm 13 d ZaZAnimationPack.esm 14 e UndergroundBathhouse.esm 15 f ITortureFramework.esm 16 10 HighResTexturePack01.esp 17 11 HighResTexturePack02.esp 18 12 HighResTexturePack03.esp 19 13 FNIS.esp 20 14 SkyUI.esp 21 15 Schlongs of Skyrim.esp 22 16 SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp 23 17 SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp 24 18 SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp 25 19 dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp 26 1a XPMSE.esp 27 1b RaceMenu.esp 28 1c RaceMenuPlugin.esp 29 1d RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp 30 1e SOSRaceMenu.esp 31 1f SexLabMatchMaker.esp 32 20 SexLabDefeat.esp 33 21 SexLabTools.esp 34 22 UIExtensions.esp 35 23 AddItemMenu2.esp 36 24 SLAnimLoader.esp 37 25 NibblesAnimObjects.esp 38 26 SLAL_AnimationsByLeito.esp 39 27 SLALAnimObj.esp 40 28 Basvanbeu MuscleTextureChanger with Navetsea set.esp 41 29 Shiva's Vanilla Hair Replacer.esp 42 2a TKAA.esp 43 2b Babette.esp 44 2c DSHg - DragonPriest Masks.esp 45 2d DSHg - Hats.esp 46 2e DSHg - Helmets.esp 47 2f DSHg - Hoods.esp 48 30 DSHg - UpdateDB.esp 49 31 DSHg - UpdateDG.esp 50 32 ChainmailBikini.esp 51 33 CumOnAnything.esp 52 34 SlaveTrainer.esp 53 35 paradise_halls_farengars_study.esp 54 36 paradise_halls_SLExtension.esp 55 37 SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp 56 38 pahe-tdf-patch.esp 57 39 pahe-DeviousDevices-addon-DDx-patch.esp 58 3a pahe-DeviousDevices-addon-patch.esp 59 3b Defeated_Slaves.esp 60 3c ub_cell_bedroom.esp 61 3d ub_cell_dislayroom.esp 62 3e ub_cell_darkarea.esp 63 3f ub_cell_cavern.esp 64 40 ub_cell_maintenance_room.esp 65 41 ub_cell_kitchen.esp 66 42 ub_cell_teleportroom.esp 67 43 PAH_HomeSweetHome.esp 68 44 PAH_AndYouGetASlave.esp 69 45 FNISspells.esp 70 46 pahe_lakeview_manor_cell.esp 71 47 My Home Is Your Home.esp 72 48 PuppetMaster.esp 73 49 dcc-dm2.esp 74 4a Brawl Bugs CE.esp 75 4b GagSFX.esp 76 4c GagSFXDawnguard.esp 77 4d GagSFXDragonborn.esp 78 4e GagSFXHearthfires.esp 79 4f ub_cell_armory.esp 80 50 ub_tapestry.esp 81 51 ub_invite_any_npc.esp 82 52 Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp Does anyone have any advice? Should I try unpacking my .bsa files and if so, is there a recommended tool for that? I've seen a few different ones discussed but I have no experience with that yet. What am I doing wrong? How can I fix this? Main system specs: i7 3770 24gb RAM Radeon 5870 1GB GDDR5 I know that my VRAM is my bottleneck. Is that what's causing this? If so, what can I do to alleviate that? I've tried dropping all of my video settings to the bare minimum (super low resolution with all draw distance and video settings set to their absolute lowest) and it didn't help at all. I only really ever seem to have a problem approaching Whiterun, although I do occasionally get CTD's upon loading a save which is easily fixed by loading an earlier save and re-loading my desired one. Sorry for the super long rambly post. I just don't know what else to do. Any help whatsoever is greatly appreciated. EDIT: I tried disabling every single mod again and starting up a vanilla game and I get the same problem. CTD approaching Whiterun. This is ridiculous.
SleepyJim Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Yeah, that area is notorious for crashing, with VRAM usage very high. There have even been reports of console versions of the game crashing there, with no mods at all. I had the same problem, and I quit Skyrim for a while because of it, but in the end I found something that worked for me. Basically, I cut down on the quality of the textures I was using. I installed Optimized Vanilla Textures and got rid of my armour and clothing texture mods (things like aMidianborn and Rustic Clothing.) I also went back to an older set of female skin textures I'd always liked and removed Fair Skin, which I'd been trying out for a while. Since doing all of that I haven't had a crash around Whiterun since. The game doesn't generally look as nice but I'll take that over crashing any day. Can't guarantee it will work for you as well but, for me, too many HD textures was the problem.
shencereys Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 This is just gonna be crazy difficult to diagnose because crashes like that could be caused by so many things. Missing meshes, errant scripts, mod conflicts, etc. I do have suggestions. Try a different alternate start and approach whiterun (try 'coc whiterun' in console also). This will verify that perhaps the problem is not caused by something with the way you're approaching whiterun (bad alternate start, or some event that the game is failing to load near whiterun's first load such as the Comanions battle vs the giant) Next, you might try an ENB. I largely stopped having crashes of this kind after I installed an ENB. If you're not aware it forces skyrim to accept more system resources than it was initially designed for. Even with your setup, you have more horsepower than skyrim was designed with in mind I think. 1GB VRAM is all skyrim recommends. I recommend this as a step because if you're running a lot of mods, Whiterun is a rather congested area and uses a lot of resources. Next, for your load issues try Load Game CTD Fix which has eliminated the loading CTD problem for me entirely. It was CHRONIC before but now I never have them. Next, disable autosaves and never quicksave. For some reason any save that fails to pause first can create a savestate that crashes because it's baked in some already-running scripts into the save. Loading a game that's had a save created without pausing first can cause a crash immediately or after some time. It's possible your approach whiterun crash is caused by a crappy savestate on your most recent save. Also from now on get in the habit of making manual saves only after giving the pause menu a few seconds to halt scripts. It's ridiculous you have to do this but you HAVE to do this when running lots of script mods or your saves will develop issues (usually not so soon as this, but it can happen). Lastly, the way you installed mods (so many all at once!) is going to oftentimes lead to this sort of thing. Best practice is to install just one or a few at a time, test them, then install a few more. That's not how I personally do it (I do like you, all at once) but you gotta expect these issues are gonna be so much harder to diagnose because the culprit mod is gonna be harder to chase down.
aifman7 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Posted October 10, 2018 1 minute ago, shencereys said: Lastly, the way you installed mods (so many all at once!) is going to oftentimes lead to this sort of thing. Best practice is to install just one or a few at a time, test them, then install a few more. That's not how I personally do it (I do like you, all at once) but you gotta expect these issues are gonna be so much harder to diagnose because the culprit mod is gonna be harder to chase down. That's the thing, I spent a little over 5 hours installing mods tonight. I didn't install them all at once, I did them in small batches of 3-4 at a time, each time starting a brand new game and testing my approach to Whiterun to verify it worked before progressing to the next group of mods. I was ultra careful about that because I figured my last attempt six months ago was due to negligence on my part and installing too many at once. It took 5 hours to get all of those mods installed tonight while slowly testing them out like this. Everything worked perfectly at each stage of the install. I tested out the approach to Whiterun after I installed the last group of mods and it worked fine, then after I tweaked my BodySlide presets the CTD's began. Which is weird, because BodySlide presets obviously shouldn't have anything to do with this. Thank you both for the suggestions! I'm going to try out what you've each recommended and hopefully something will help chase this gremlin away. I've never used an ENB before so this will be new territory for me. I think I'll try Optimized Vanilla Textures first. I did find the SKSE crash dumps folder and loaded it up on the online minidump viewer from the instructions here, but sadly there doesn't seem to be any known info about my specific crash. Here's the relevant crash log, in case anyone is interested though: EXCEPTION_RECORD: ffffffff -- (.exr 0xffffffffffffffff) ExceptionAddress: 00abeab4 (TESV+0x006beab4) ExceptionCode: c0000005 (Access violation) ExceptionFlags: 00000000 NumberParameters: 2 Parameter[0]: 00000000 Parameter[1]: 0a37f37f Attempt to read from address 0a37f37f DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: INVALID_POINTER_READ PROCESS_NAME: TESV.exe ERROR_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at "0x%08lx" referenced memory at "0x%08lx". The memory could not be "%s". EXCEPTION_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at "0x%08lx" referenced memory at "0x%08lx". The memory could not be "%s". EXCEPTION_PARAMETER1: 00000000 EXCEPTION_PARAMETER2: 0a37f37f READ_ADDRESS: 0a37f37f STACK_TEXT: WARNING: Stack unwind information not available. Following frames may be wrong. 1726f81c 300368f8 6c369210 00000011 00abeb56 TESV+0x6beab4 1726f820 6c369210 00000011 00abeb56 6c369210 0x300368f8 1726f824 00000000 00abeb56 6c369210 300368f8 0x6c369210 There's much more in the crash log obviously, but as I understand it this would be the relevant info. I don't think it will be helpful in this case, though, as the crash address is already listed in that thread with the following 'info': Offset: 00abeab4 (TESV+0x006beab4) When: unknown Cause: unknown Result: unknown Fix: unknown Related: NiNode For now, I'm off to install Optimized Vanilla Textures and perhaps try out an ENB before giving up for the night and trying again in the morning. Wish me luck.
Pfiffy Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Sounds like a defective nif or a bad texture. LE is more forgiving this than SE, but it still breaks on this from time to time if a lot of thigs have to be loaded on a cell change. You might get information on this from crash fixes. (I really hope that I get something like this for SE in the future...) If it is somewhere burried in a BSA, it is hard to track it down. Best way of testing is to remove all Clothing and NPC replacer one by one and see if the problem get solved. If it is not the clothings, Check npc replacers and Texture replacers. And get the unofficial patches for the HighResolution pack.
Whizkid Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 really 1gb vram, if u want to mod get at least 4gb or u'll crash and weird things start happening, ofc u can always compress textures to 1k or 512 to save vram usage. one way to test if u'll ctd is to run tes5edit on your load order, imo u should place the high res textures files right up top after the dlc.
aifman7 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Posted October 10, 2018 So I've installed Optimized Vanilla Textures, also disabled the HighResTexturePack .esp's. Installed a simple Enb following the instructions here: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/56320/?tab=description I uninstalled (not just disabled but uninstalled) all of the mods relating to NPC appearance like the hair or eyes mods, also uninstalled the body texture I was using, so NPC's are looking pretty much vanilla (with CBBE bodies). The CTD outside Whiterun persists. I do notice that it might be related to the scripted giant vs Companions fight, as if I approach from the eastern side of Whiterun I can get right up to the wall and follow it just to the start of the farms before I get the CTD. Similarly if I use console to coc to WhiterunStables, the moment I leave that cell I get the CTD. If this is directly related to the giants vs Companions fight, is there any way that I can disable that fight entirely, or "end" that script without having witnessed it? I'd love to disable that fight before approaching Whiterun, as that would give me one more variable to rule out. Failing that, if I do another full fresh install, would it be safe for me to approach Whiterun in a purely vanilla game to let those scripted events play out and *then* install my desired mods? Would it be safe to do that and install them while my character is saved in the qasmoke cell? I don't have a lot of experience with installing mods on a game that's in progress, I have almost exclusively installed them before starting a new save.
Grey Cloud Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 There is some seriously shit advice given there. First, with 1 GB VRAM you will struggle to get that load order running smoothly. Second, try an Alt Start in different locations. Try one in the wilderness, one in a medium density place (Morthal?) and one in Riften (another notorious resource hog). Third, never mind about auto and quick saves. I have never had to disable autos or avoid quicksaves. Fourth, install ENBoost following this: http://wiki.step-project.com/ENBoost . You can install Crash Fixes too. I've never had to use Load Game CTD Fix, I prefer to cure the problem rather than treat the symptom. That Nexus thing is three years old and useless. Fifth, get rid of the Hi-Res Tex Patches - your video card will thank you. [Just seen your post] Sixth, not related to your problems but you are using the old version of the Brawl Bug patch which doesn't work. Use the 'Modern' one. Also, you don't need Realistic Ragdolls as XPMSE does the ragdolling. Seventh, go through you mods and try to find and use lower res textures, i.e. 1K or 512MB. Eighth, if all else fails, you will have to reduce the number of mods.
nemocdt Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 this is where i would start. coc to whiterun stables when you have loaded in press tilde and then console command tfc 1 sucsm 200 navigate camera to where the giant fight is then select the giant into the console and type disable remove all actors in the fight using the same method. then run to where the fight should be and see if ctd this should isolate if the fight is the issue or not. if no ctd occurs reload game and just console kill the giant. companions will then walk in whiterun, talk to them there by console commanding the intro scene to completion you may have other unresolved issuses surface later. (if you can find the quest name and number) that scene is notorious for ctd. however with 1 gb it just might be enough to tip it over.
Psalam Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Spoiler 1 hour ago, aifman7 said: So I've installed Optimized Vanilla Textures, also disabled the HighResTexturePack .esp's. Installed a simple Enb following the instructions here: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/56320/?tab=description I uninstalled (not just disabled but uninstalled) all of the mods relating to NPC appearance like the hair or eyes mods, also uninstalled the body texture I was using, so NPC's are looking pretty much vanilla (with CBBE bodies). The CTD outside Whiterun persists. I do notice that it might be related to the scripted giant vs Companions fight, as if I approach from the eastern side of Whiterun I can get right up to the wall and follow it just to the start of the farms before I get the CTD. Similarly if I use console to coc to WhiterunStables, the moment I leave that cell I get the CTD. If this is directly related to the giants vs Companions fight, is there any way that I can disable that fight entirely, or "end" that script without having witnessed it? I'd love to disable that fight before approaching Whiterun, as that would give me one more variable to rule out. Failing that, if I do another full fresh install, would it be safe for me to approach Whiterun in a purely vanilla game to let those scripted events play out and *then* install my desired mods? Would it be safe to do that and install them while my character is saved in the qasmoke cell? I don't have a lot of experience with installing mods on a game that's in progress, I have almost exclusively installed them before starting a new save. It may not help but I would suggest that you uninstall Underground Bathhouse and related mods and see if that solves your problem.
Grey Cloud Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, nemocdt said: this is where i would start. coc to whiterun stables when you have loaded in press tilde and then console command tfc 1 sucsm 200 navigate camera to where the giant fight is then select the giant into the console and type disable remove all actors in the fight using the same method. then run to where the fight should be and see if ctd this should isolate if the fight is the issue or not. if no ctd occurs reload game and just console kill the giant. companions will then walk in whiterun, talk to them there by console commanding the intro scene to completion you may have other unresolved issuses surface later. (if you can find the quest name and number) that scene is notorious for ctd. however with 1 gb it just might be enough to tip it over. And what will all that have achieved? He will still have a 1GB card and an unoptimized installation. The guy is obviously pretty new to modding Skyrim yet you are telling him to 'coc to whiterun stables' - do you think he knows what 'coc' is? Do you think he knows the correct command for Whiterun stables? You might want to tell him to hit the tilde key to close the console. With 1GB of VRAM, the OP needs to get his basic game optimized to run with limited resources. Arsin' about coc-ing here and there and removing this mod or that mod will, at best give temporary respite and shift the problem somewhere else.
shencereys Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said: And what will all that have achieved? He will still have a 1GB card and an unoptimized installation. The guy is obviously pretty new to modding Skyrim yet you are telling him to 'coc to whiterun stables' - do you think he knows what 'coc' is? Do you think he knows the correct command for Whiterun stables? You might want to tell him to hit the tilde key to close the console. He said 2 hours ago, aifman7 said: Similarly if I use console to coc to WhiterunStables, the moment I leave that cell I get the CTD. prior to the guy you're yelling at's answer, but you didn't read or see it apparently. He knows already. Eat breakfast or take a nap or something, yeesh.
nemocdt Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said: And what will all that have achieved? He will still have a 1GB card and an unoptimized installation. The guy is obviously pretty new to modding Skyrim yet you are telling him to 'coc to whiterun stables' - do you think he knows what 'coc' is? Do you think he knows the correct command for Whiterun stables? You might want to tell him to hit the tilde key to close the console. With 1GB of VRAM, the OP needs to get his basic game optimized to run with limited resources. Arsin' about coc-ing here and there and removing this mod or that mod will, at best give temporary respite and shift the problem somewhere else. jeez man just trying to help. ? i'm sure your advice to get enb boost will help the topic....
Grey Cloud Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, nemocdt said: i'm sure your advice to get enb boost will help the topic.... It will because the lack of VRAM needs all the help it can get. Also, it will be better than the thing he got from the Nexus. 1 hour ago, shencereys said: prior to the guy you're yelling at's answer, but you didn't read or see it apparently I missed the OP's remark about coc-ing, so I apologise.
aifman7 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Posted October 10, 2018 I'll take any help I can get, fret not folks. I'm not particularly new to Skyrim modding, I just have a crappy old video card and haven't been able to afford an upgrade for some time. A friend of mine recently gifted me with his old i7 (an upgrade from my previous i5) and his RAM, but even before I upgraded those my bottleneck was my GPU. With the crazy spike in price on GPU's over the last couple of years with cryptocurrency farmers I didn't have any desire to shell out for an overpriced piece of hardware when my existing GPU was serving me well enough, at least until I started trying to mod Skyrim again. I actually ran a pretty stable modded Skyrim install (just under 100 mods IIRC) a couple(ish?) years ago but I don't have that mod list any longer and it's likely that a lot of those mods are way out of date now anyway. I'm no expert by any means but I'm pretty comfortable with the Skyrim modding scene. I for the most part understand how to determine what mods will play nicely together, what mods won't, and what mods will "work" alongside one another with minor issues (which can of course lead to major issues down the road but YMMV). In this case I don't think my current CTD problems are necessarily a matter of my own incompetence but rather a combination of not enough VRAM and too many script-heavy mods. For what it's worth, I figured out a small workaround for my CTD issues outside Whiterun. I found the "quest" for the Companions vs giant fight at the farm (in quotes because it's not an active player quest until the giant dies). I manually forced that quest through its stages to get the event finished and after having done that I can walk around Whiterun to my heart's content with no crashes to report. However I am now getting CTD's upon _entering_ Whiterun so obviously as someone else mentioned in this thread, I treated the symptom and not the cause. I've decided to cull my mod list and brought it down from 80 to 34, but I think I missed a file somewhere while uninstalling because the crashes persist even in a vanilla state. I have to start fresh again. This time I'm going to finally drop NMM and make the switch to MO, which of course brings with it a whole new set of things to learn. Still, if anyone else happens to discover this thread and is specifically having an issue with the giant fight outside Whiterun, you can force that quest through in console with the following commands: setstage 000C97D9 10 setstage 000C97D9 20 setstage 000C97D9 30 setstage 000C97D9 200 The quest is called C00GiantAttack. I recommend forcing the quest through one stage at a time, as when I simply tried setting it to its end stage of 200 I noticed that stages 20 and 30 were still set to 0 and not 1 (you can check this with the command "player.sqs 000C97D9"), and the crash persisted upon approaching Whiterun. Entering the commands one at a time as shown above allowed the quest to finish correctly, and if you get there quickly enough you'll still catch Aela and the others walking back to Whiterun as if they killed the giant normally. It's dead body will even be right where it's supposed to be. Of course this could all introduce more issues down the line so do this at your own peril I guess. Anyway, now I'm off to nuke my install from orbit again, learn MO, and hope I can get a small modlist running smoothly. Here goes nothing. EDIT: A final note, I did attempt every suggestion in this thread and will use some of that in my next install as well, I did notice a fairly dramatic spike in performance installing the enb Gray recommended.
aifman7 Posted October 11, 2018 Author Posted October 11, 2018 Solved the problem. It was the armor/body/texture mod "I love cleavage" that for some reason was forcing a CTD in and around Whiterun. I presume it had something to do with one of the custom armors in that pack but I can't say for certain. If anyone else is using that mod (unlikely I think since it seems to be a bit obscure, I picked it as an easy "all in one" solution... joke's on me!), and you're encountering CTD's, try uninstalling that one first and see if that fixes the problem for you. I have to say though, I never would have discovered that if it weren't for Mod Organizer. Man, I've been such a fool for not having switched to this manager years ago. Disabling and/or fully uninstalling mods through NMM didn't help me narrow down the problem one bit. I had uninstalled that mod early on and the CTD's persisted... I can only assume either NMM didn't fully remove all of its files or I screwed up somehow and didn't do my due diligence. With MO I've actually got my original list of mods posted above all running smoothly, haven't encountered so much as a hiccup since I ruled out the problematic file. The temptation to add a few more mods to the mix is great, but after spending practically an entire 24 hours on this I think I should probably play it safe and stick with what I've got for this playthrough. Haha. Thanks again everyone.
shencereys Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, aifman7 said: Solved the problem. It was the armor/body/texture mod "I love cleavage" that for some reason was forcing a CTD in and around Whiterun. I presume it had something to do with one of the custom armors in that pack but I can't say for certain. If anyone else is using that mod (unlikely I think since it seems to be a bit obscure, I picked it as an easy "all in one" solution... joke's on me!), and you're encountering CTD's, try uninstalling that one first and see if that fixes the problem for you. I have to say though, I never would have discovered that if it weren't for Mod Organizer. Man, I've been such a fool for not having switched to this manager years ago. Disabling and/or fully uninstalling mods through NMM didn't help me narrow down the problem one bit. I had uninstalled that mod early on and the CTD's persisted... I can only assume either NMM didn't fully remove all of its files or I screwed up somehow and didn't do my due diligence. With MO I've actually got my original list of mods posted above all running smoothly, haven't encountered so much as a hiccup since I ruled out the problematic file. The temptation to add a few more mods to the mix is great, but after spending practically an entire 24 hours on this I think I should probably play it safe and stick with what I've got for this playthrough. Haha. Thanks again everyone. Hey I got you fam, you got MO now you can test more mods with no worries. You can save your current list as a profile, then add more mods to to a different profile, just be sure to keep your different overwrites marked. For example I have a setup called "Female Character Working" that runs smooth as butter and has its own "Female Character Working Overwrite" mod. When i want to add mods or alter things I swap to profile "Female Character test" that has its own "Female Character Test" overwrite that's just an exact copy of the above overwrite plus any changes that the mods I added made. If I can be convinced it's stable then I apply all the experimental changes to my "...working" profile. It's pretty easy to set this up, just clone your existing profile. Making a clone of your current profile is easy but it's not built into MO as a function (should be IMO. MO will create a new profile for you but then you have to re-check and re-sort everything on both panes. Pain in the ass. ) First create a copy of your current MO overwrite folder in "...Mod Organizer/Mods/" and again rename it to whatever you want. Then go to "...Mod Organizer/Profiles/" and make a copy of your current profile, paste and rename it whatever you like in the same folder. Then close MO and reopen it and it should see the new profile and overwrite. Select your new profile from the dropdown, uncheck your old overwrite and check the new one. This lets you test any configuration change you want to make without hassle (so long as you're not editing the contents of the mod folders you already have installed). You just gotta remember to keep your overwrites organized properly. Flip back and forth between profiles with no worries.
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