Have we, or are we loosing our freedom of choice?

[dharvinia]

The other day I had one of my "friends" comment that I was loosing myself to video games, virtual reality, and social media.

My first impulse was to say "$%^&off, but being the lady I am decided on the following answer.(which was recorded because I had been using some of the great technology we have available.)?

 

There are two schools of thought as to whether we have free will or not.

On one hand we have people who believe that nothing should constrain our freedom to choose to do whatever we want, or to become whatever we want to be, as long as we do not harm others.

Their supreme value is autonomous choice.

On the other hand people tell us that human freedom does not exist.

 Why then should we invoke freedom-to-choose as a value if it is according to science, an illusion?

 If hard determinism is true, there is no reason to honour liberty or create a free society.  We should embrace a new world where children are conceived and hatched in laboratories, and adults programmed to stay happy by a regime of drugs and pleasure. We should implement a scenario where criminals are reformed by brain surgery or conditioning.

  If freedom does not exist, why be bothered by the addictive nature of computer games and social media?

  Why prefer genuine reality to virtual reality?

It has been observed that the greater our scientific achievements, the lower our view of the human person.  Are we no longer the creation of the deities, have we have become mere incarnated algorithms? Now leave before I press this button and erase you from my memory.

[Jack of All Trades]

I think you're reading into your friend's comment a little bit too much. If they are who you say they are, a friend, then they care about you. Perhaps they just were trying to say that they want to spend more time with you, but are unable to due to you being preoccupied with other things. If you care for them, and find genuine pleasure being around them, then set aside time for them.

 

Edit: Also, context is crucial. I don't believe it would be fair for us to cast our judgement on the situation without the other party's side of the story.

[karlpaws]

I'm not sure how your choice of hobbies and past time wasting methods lead to questions about free will, so I'll make comments on both.

 

My usual response about spending too much time on games is that at least I'm engaging with something creative and depending on the game, international social interaction. I got your sofa sitting sitcoms and idiot box reality tv beat three ways.

 

On free will and choices... we have a lot more things can can choose from these days.  More foods, more entertainment (game variety, sports variety, tv channels, etc) and yet with so many things deemed "bad", if you don't conform to the choices of your peers you are stuck back in the dark ages of 2 friends, or in the dark ages of having one sport or hobby available. In that sense, yes we have lost choice.

 

Regarding free will though... while I am in the camp of "every person can choose but the appearance of fate comes in when you lack the information to make the choice you might otherwise, and your character formed by experiences and choices up to that point greatly influences the choices you can make. You might have 15 options but someone could predict with 100% certainty how you will act, as if there was a Fate guiding your hand.

 

On the other hand, I could go along with someone's argument that fate exists but not as far as your deterministic society example. I would not think that any government could know and correctly place us on the "correct path" and if fate will get us where it will, nothing needs to help it along.

[Darkpig]

13 hours ago, dharvinia said:

If freedom does not exist, why be bothered by the addictive nature of computer games and social media?

"We are free." is a big fat lie coming from my lips. But let us assume we are free. Did you not make the derision to play videogames? I get that you don't want to hear this from a pig but despite how crazy addicting screens have become recently it would do you good to go outside every now and then. We have physical needs too such as going for walks, eating, sleeping, number one and number two. Socializing is kind of overrated but if you want to be a functional member of society then it wouldn't hurt to practice. Either way Determinism is nearly identical to free will.

 

Solution: Hit your local philosopher with something hard like a bat but only until they stop breathing. They deserve it. Did I mention I'm an evil pig??

[Guest]

Narrowing the scope to video games:

You have to follow basic rules.

It's usually a republic, and you're involved in the coup (I cannot spell coup d'etat)

The leader is a post-apocalyptic butthole

or he killed him.

You have certain paths to walk, and all other paths are closed to you (because of your rank)

So let's review: with rank comes privilege, Leaders are dumbasses who need slaughtering quick.

 

The problem comes when too many people raised on videogames treat reality like a video game.

Your car is mine

Your iPhone is mine

your Leader is toast

and guns are like xbox controllers, keep spamming that trigger 

 

[woodsman30]

A load question to be sure one first has to define "Freedom" and what it means universally. Do you have freedom now to be and do whatever you want simple answer is no. You and most everyone in this world are run by money and those who control money economic class if you will. Please spare me the story about this one guy you know who made it big that is an exception not the rule. You can only be what you can afford to be that is reality. Now free will that is different but it always comes at a price for every action there will be a reaction just really that simple. In any one moment in time you do have complete freedom... but do not disillusion yourself thinking you are truly free you are controlled by social class, economic class, laws, and morals or society. So simply put you do not have freedom of choice NO you never did period.

[dharvinia]

ladies and gentlemen, thank you all for your kind answers.  I am so surprised that a sarcastic answer to a friend's query should invoke such thoughtful response.

 

My friend always has an answer to my telling her where to go when she talks about my hobbies.  This time I decided to confuse her with random facts.

Everyone who was present had a great laugh at her reaction to my reply.  But in retrospect, I should have followed my mother's advice which was to "never pick on someone lessor than yourself just because you can."

 

 

[Lozeak]

This is something I have thought about a lot.

 

Logically, we a free within our limitations. So, for example, you can do a lot of things in your life but you're going to die, so you are not free to live forever.

In that way no person is truly 100% free to do anything they want, you can't turn lead into gold or breed a million monkeys to type Shakespeare (well maybe you could but good luck :P) 

 

Either way, life is about the choices we make with the freedom we have. 

 

That said, you may be losing your old self to computer games or w/e cause all experiences to have the ability to change who we are, the thing is, is it such a bad thing? That's for you to decide not your friend they are basically being selfish unless they're saying it because it detrimentally affects your health or something.

 

I have wasted a lot of my life on gaming/creating thing to nearly a point I don't care about getting a good job or proving myself to anyone but I am happier and healthier than I have ever been, so to other's, I'm wasting my life to me I'm living and enjoying my life. 

 

(I have a decent degree in sciences and I work a low hour job in retail, I have been a manager and other thing but hated it so I decided I'll live on very little an enjoy my free time)

 

[FauxFurry]

Losing only has one 'O' in it.

Perhaps it is my destiny to correct other peoples' spelling for the rest of my life, whether I am paid for it or not?

[Jazzman]

Freedom of choice, taken by itself, is just an illusion created by the powers-that-be to make you blind for the fact that you are not free.

You can even give a slave such a freedom, to choose between A) silver mine and B) granite quarry. That doesn't free the man for a yota.

[27X]

Macro: Your choices are your own, with the caveat that humans bearing literally rely on patterns to navigate the world. If those patterns don't exist naturally, we'll make them, that's what religion basically is, reinforcement of stuff that already exists in the human makeup already. You look at any secular organization of word changing ability, and you'll find all the hallmarks of any religious organization, leaders/followers, circles of expertise with ranks, and emphasized ritualistic behavior, even amongst scientific organizations. We're all slaves to the pattern whether we acknowledge it exists or not. Pattern creation and recognition is part and parcel of human biology and it'll be there for the foreseeable future.

 

Micro: Freedom is entirely relative, conditional, and fluid. You're a "slave" to your emotions, your bias and your upbringing, your culture and your values. All those things can and will change, but you'll still have to navigate with them as both guide and leash for the entirely of your life.

 

 

[Guest]

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 2:31 PM, dharvinia said:

ladies and gentlemen, thank you all for your kind answers.  I am so surprised that a sarcastic answer to a friend's query should invoke such thoughtful response.

 

My friend always has an answer to my telling her where to go when she talks about my hobbies.  This time I decided to confuse her with random facts.

Everyone who was present had a great laugh at her reaction to my reply.  But in retrospect, I should have followed my mother's advice which was to "never pick on someone lessor than yourself just because you can."

 

 

Yah, about those random facts....

 

Oooh, and the one about her being lesser than yourself.

 

[insert treatise here]

The mechanics of a forum thread still elude me, what does any OP want?

(three weeks ago, on a midnight dreary)

Random theories

1. It doesn't matter what they want, your text is sufficient

2. They love long threads (see above)

3. Lesser friends stand agape in awe of the massive text your avatar can generate

4. Answering posters must (it's a given) be

   On topic

   Not belligerent

   And in general, agree with whatever the OP said, Or

 risk being deleted.

   What was the question?

  O yeah, "free".

  I agree with that person somewhere above, they write so much better than I.

 

Like I said, I'm no forum mechanic,

But @27x, I wanted to quote you to answer that my ants have a leadership structure, and my roaches recognize patterns (They recognize my refrigerator as a landmark).

Are they free?

They don't pay rent, they've lived longer than me, they'll live on long after I'm gone.

"we are such stuff as....." o nevermind

[dharvinia]

Thank you for you kind reply and what I think was a veiled humour.

@2dk2c

As for my friend being "lessor" than myself, she talks, acts and often speaks at the level of a 12 year old child, BUT,

I would never exclude her from from my company of friends.  She makes me laugh with her, and brings me down to earth when I get too full of myself.

Everyone should have a friend like her.