@Lupine00, regarding the "follower can sell" - I would recommend looking at SPERG, the "Best Friend" perk gives a non-standard follower (animal or construct) which can be given items to sell.  It leaves the area and returns with cash in its inventory - I don't know if it properly travels to an actual shop location or if it just exits the cell and returns, I haven't really used this feature.

FYI: it hadn't occurred to me that this "best friend" (by default a dog, but in my case a dwemer spider) would be picked up by DF, but it was, so my spider was a devious follower.  It took a bit of tinkering to exclude it, because it kept being added before I could disable it from debug, and it didn't gain proper dialogue to "pay it off" (disabling DF temporarily did work).

5 hours ago, legraf said:

FYI: it hadn't occurred to me that this "best friend" (by default a dog, but in my case a dwemer spider) would be picked up by DF, but it was, so my spider was a devious follower.  It took a bit of tinkering to exclude it, because it kept being added before I could disable it from debug, and it didn't gain proper dialogue to "pay it off" (disabling DF temporarily did work).

Looks like DF needs a race check ... but that could exclude custom races that the player wants to include ... tricky.

How did you choose what your "best friend" would be?

Is it restricted to certain races? In which case, those could be excluded specifically. Also, I think I can detect some dogs by faction.

I think there is some faction or race conditions already, to prevent Meeko becoming a DF. I need to check.

Also, NFF has a "go sell stuff" feature. I don't like the way it works in a DF context because it makes the follower too compliant.

I didn't disable it, but I might if I had an alternative mechanic in place.

A possible future DF approach might be that you choose whether a follower is a DF on recruitment, and so by default, no follower is forced as a DF.

That would replace the "ignore" mechanic in the debug menu (though it would use the same faction).

Once you made the choice on a given follower, they would stay that way unless you initiated a special dialog to swap them to/from DF enabled.

Why would I do this? Because it means I can have a special recruit dialog for DFs that puts them into a DF-based multi-follower system (EFF/AFT aware) and if you want them in NFF you import them explicitly. That's the future, but for now they are ordinary followers and DF with no framework can only have one follower. However, there is special handling in EFF/AFT/NFF, which will come in 2.07 ... we'll see how that goes ... I haven't tested it extensively but it seems to work.

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Looks like DF needs a race check ... but that could exclude custom races that the player wants to include ... tricky.

How did you choose what your "best friend" would be?

One makes the choice in the SPERG MCM, under perk options.  The choices are amusing and generally animals: dogs & wolves, the dwemer spider as indicated, but I remember horkers were a choice too, and a "baby" mammoth also.  Yes, definitely restricted by race, but probably an obscure enough condition that the solution might just be to remind players to pause DF before choosing that perk and having their buddy appear.

Or, a much better solution is to go with the "opt in" rather than "opt out" method of DF selection.  A great deal of retro-fitted complexity can be discarded by having the player make a specific choice to pick someone specifically as a DF follower.  I like the idea that you can then choose to put something into NFF or not (I've never used NFF myself, but still).  But even without this more complicated and interesting future possibility of DF having its own multi-follower framework, I think in the relatively short term it would still be worthwhile to throw out the default-on behaviour of DF, and have it call for a specific trigger.

Actually, while I'm dreaming, I'll say that what I'd particularly enjoy is a chance that a follower will prove to be devious - a configurable chance to suit different playstyles.  I'd like to be able to ordinarily recruit temporary followers when needed, and then 'lo and behold, one time one of them refuses to leave (haven't completed the minimum contract length yet in DF) and starts the usual DF relationship.  "What, you didn't think I was going to fight and risk my life for free, did you?"

I know, not to everyone's taste as it introduces a slight lack of player control right at the start.  More strictly consensual would be to have someone refuse to become a follower without the player agreeing to "conditions" (a DF contract basically).  But perhaps with low willpower (Will should go up and down even without a follower, as it does now), the follower could force-start DF.

4 hours ago, legraf said:

I think in the relatively short term it would still be worthwhile to throw out the default-on behaviour of DF, and have it call for a specific trigger.

That's kind of wired into how it starts up, so removing that means you have to flip the entire logic of follower recruitment the other way around in DF anyway.

I don't think I'd do that without doing the other work - that stuff is going to be bound together - but I suspect the future is explicitly choosing to recruit a follower as a DF, rather than it just happening as it does now. But, I think it's also interesting to move towards "assigned" followers, and lightweight quest content that leads to you getting a DF. In which case it would require you to pre-register the followers. It's probably wise not to get excited about that, as it could be a while.

4 hours ago, legraf said:

Actually, while I'm dreaming, I'll say that what I'd particularly enjoy is a chance that a follower will prove to be devious - a configurable chance to suit different playstyles. 

It's a common sense idea from a play point-of-view, but somewhat odd that a follower might start to assume you agreed to terms that you didn't.

That's part of my issue with the immersive tent-poles of DF. I want the PC to agree to this stuff up front, so it doesn't seem like it's coming from nowhere. But I want it to feel like the deals were ... misrepresented.

Possibly, a more immersive mechanic is that a follower becomes devious gradually, little by little. The chance of that happening could be random, or could be based on something the player does or chooses. Options. Options.

13 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's probably wise not to get excited about that, as it could be a while.

I will maintain equipoise, aided by holiday-feast-induced lethargy.  Feel free to take as long as you need to make DF perfect.  A day, even two days.

13 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's a common sense idea from a play point-of-view, but somewhat odd that a follower might start to assume you agreed to terms that you didn't.

That's part of my issue with the immersive tent-poles of DF. I want the PC to agree to this stuff up front, so it doesn't seem like it's coming from nowhere. But I want it to feel like the deals were ... misrepresented.

Yes, that's my niggle with my own idea, too.  I really want the follower to be basically "justified" every step of the way, at least arguably in the right.  I don't mind, at low willpower or special cirumstances, some situations where the player can be forced/pressured into agreeing to things with hidden terms and conditions - though even then it's best if the follower at least hints that there are "future conditions to be detailed later".

Part of the problem, I find, is that Skyrim is too full of strangers willing to become followers for no reward whatsoever.  Receiving payment, or a share of the loot, ought to be standard, only omitted when the player has earned an NPC's deep gratitude and favour.  In such an environment, it's much simpler for a DF to be vague or evasive about the terms, and certainly to present them in the nicest possible light.  For example, then a DF might talk of "standard payment", but their standard is not necessarily the same as everyone's standard.  They can also warn that the rate will change with experience and other factors (both up and down), with the assumption that if their rate goes too high they'll be dismissed... except that they can't be dismissed while the player is in debt, or before the minimum standard contract period has elapsed, and so on.

In this case, perhaps there really could be a fairly standard rate (with some random variability) that any follower charges, tracked by DF.  And most followers simply stick to that, and if things go badly, they might abandon the player or refuse to sign on with them again (or require a larger payment).  But those with devious tendencies are more creative.  Of course, this kind of goes back to having DF getting involved by default.  I don't claim to have all the answers!

3 hours ago, legraf said:

Feel free to take as long as you need to make DF perfect.  A day, even two days.

?

23 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Feel free to take as long as you need to make DF perfect.  A day, even two days.

Hell, take the rest of the year if you need to.  ?

DFC’s feature in which the  follower whores out the player is very unique and a lot of fun. Most prostitution mods work the other way around.

I love the feature, but sometimes my immersion gets broken with Ysolda and other female NPCs wanting to use my player character.

I would love an MCM option for the whoring-out mode to choose the gender of customers, for example choose only male customers.