Where Has The Quality Gone?

[Grine]

There are several reasons as to why this is happening.

 

Just the other day some people were discussing how Oreo cookies are now smaller, have less filling and yet the price is even more expensive.

Some guy's grandpa was actually measuring this stuff for years. In the company's accounting books the inventory now yields double or triple amount of profits compared to decades ago. (adjusted for inflation obviously)

 

As for the toasters, garage doors and other home appliances that seem to break down every few years is purely by design.

Why would I, as a toaster company, want to sell you a toaster that will serve your family for 10 or 20 years?

I would much rather serve you that toaster with a new exterior every 2 years.

 

The only thing that's arguably better these days are the cars and thats purely out of necessity because of fuel consumption and safety regulations.

Everything else they made "options" a system where everyone here I am sure knows about.

[Veladarius]

 

 

Outsourced to China lol

This is one of the main reasons for a decline in quality of some products. China has been flooding the market for the better part of the century so far. I have yet to see anything they build well.

 

That's only partly true. A lot of chinese factories produce the same quality like any other factory anywhere else would, maybe even better because by now they have the workers with experience, not we. They don't have that much of a choice because the building plans, machines and everything comes from western countries. And sometimes they produce some more and sell the same stuff as noname for 1/5 of the price you pay for a brand. Of course they also produce cheap poisenous stuff and everything, but that's not the point. Many products wouldn't be any better if we'd produce them at home, just more expensive.

And sometimes it also works the other way around. Especially when it comes to shoes like sneakers or something, i usually buy some cheap ones. The expensive stuff may be a bit more comfortable, but in my experience i can't wear any of them for ten years. It's rather a question if i'm willing to pay 120€ for some fancy shoes from a fancy brand, or 20€ for something that serves just as well (and long), but isn't fancy. 

Imho the bigger problem is that price & brands don't tell you anything anymore about quality. More often it's just as good or bad as a cheap noname product, but you pay additional for fashion and status, something i don't give a shit about. And that's even true for burgers. I would pay for quality, but when it comes to fashion i'll buy pretty much anything that is straight black, in this case except burgers. But straight black is not something where i say "Oh, that's great art, half of the price has to go to the designer."

 

 

Considering most electronic devices from phones to PC components are made in China saying their quality is bad isn't correct. The quality of Chinese goods is tied to their cost, buy something cheap and it won't last but pay more for something of the same type and the quality tends to be higher. Korean and Japanese goods generally don't have a cheap version mainly due to environmental regulations which China lacks in many areas.

 

Foxxcon is supposed to be opening a plant in Wisconsin and produce electronics there, area wise it is supposed to be 1-2 square miles in size (maybe more). Not sure how they will handle the cost of environmental controls and such but whatever they make there won't be cheap (price wise).

 

As far as fast food is concerned their income goes towards 3 categories: Food Costs, Labor and the Building related costs (utilities, rent etc...) and whatever is left is profit (not much).

 

I was a manager for Pizza Hut some time ago and the minimum wage was $5.15 / hr and 30%-35% of the income went to paying employees, 30% went to food costs and 30% went to building costs, uniforms and other things (cleaning supplies and such) which left about 5%-10% for profit. Considering that the typical Pizza Hut location averaged 13k in sales per week isn't much. Increases in wages have taken its toll on the fast food industry by increasing labor costs 50% or more and they still expect that same profit margin what do you do? Raise prices. Most pizza places have a delivery charge to help offset this and keep the per item cost down and help pay for the cost of the drivers. The Pizza Hut I ran (before delivery charges started) did 21k a week (over 1 million in sale / year which few hit). but when we started a 1$ delivery charge we lost $3000 a week in sales. My location was delivery/carryout only and we did 90% delivery so we had quite a bit come in due to the delivery charge. At the time they didn't know what to classify it as so it went to offset the cost of the building and my profit went to 25% yet they still wanted me to cut labor costs (was a corporate store) and that was when I left.

 

Arby's used to have a 5 for $5 sale, now it is 2 for $5. Now the normal price for 2 people at a fast food restaurant is $15-$20 though there are some deals still to be found occasionally.

[panthercom]

 This is why I buy or keep antiques. 1966 Volvo with 250K miles purchased new by my grandfather, 1965 Volvo with 500K miles.

My primary bicycle was made in 1919, just bought another to fix up from 1926; new bikes might weigh less, but they have shitty

-looking welds. Panasonic microwave from 1980 made from heavy gauge stainless steel and built like a tank. We bought a new

Panasonic microwave at work and it lasted a year before it broke; the sheet metal was so thin that the latch mount bent from normal

use.

 

 I've got a 1965 Gibson Firebird, and I bought a pair of 2015 Firebirds. The new ones are nice guitars, but the build quality on the

65' is light years better. Even my 57' ES125T, which was an entry-level model aimed at students, has the build quality of $2000+

instrument by today's standards.

 

 If you're looking for furniture, go to antique stores in a state with lower cost of living, because you can get a much better quality

item in nice condition at a reasonable price; none of that new garbage made from particle board. Same applies to room fans,

toasters, mixers, lamps etc.

 

 I worked at a small medical device manufacturer that went belly-up this year. We made everything in the USA, and constantly

had problems with our parts vendors supplying us with out of spec or substandard components. We had to build our own

wood shop to get the quality of enclosures that we needed.

[Nazzzgul666]

There are several reasons as to why this is happening.

 

Just the other day some people were discussing how Oreo cookies are now smaller, have less filling and yet the price is even more expensive.

Some guy's grandpa was actually measuring this stuff for years. In the company's accounting books the inventory now yields double or triple amount of profits compared to decades ago. (adjusted for inflation obviously)

 

As for the toasters, garage doors and other home appliances that seem to break down every few years is purely by design.

Why would I, as a toaster company, want to sell you a toaster that will serve your family for 10 or 20 years?

I would much rather serve you that toaster with a new exterior every 2 years.

 

The only thing that's arguably better these days are the cars and thats purely out of necessity because of fuel consumption and safety regulations.

Everything else they made "options" a system where everyone here I am sure knows about.

Reminds me of a joke.

Grandfather to grandson:

Today it's hard.

When i was young, i could go to the shop with a penny and come back with 6 eggs, a bottle of juice, a comic and some candy.

Can't do that anymore in these days... they have surveillance cameras everywhere!

 

But on topic: even with cars it's arguable if they are "better". Old stuff was not only lasting longer, it was also much easier to repair things yourself or at all. That you can't do that anymore is not only because it's high-tech, in many cases that's just purpose.

 

 

Considering most electronic devices from phones to PC components are made in China saying their quality is bad isn't correct. The quality of Chinese goods is tied to their cost, buy something cheap and it won't last but pay more for something of the same type and the quality tends to be higher. Korean and Japanese goods generally don't have a cheap version mainly due to environmental regulations which China lacks in many areas.

 

The quality of any product is tied to costs regardless where it's produced when it's about the minimum costs, but as mentioned, the conclusion that cheap price means cheap product isn't always true. Don't know if you know Bosch, a german company still known here for quality tools like power drills and stuff, but they also produce a lot in China. And those chinese factories build some more than Bosch ordered, selling the others without any brand on it much cheaper, but it's still exactly the same tool. All that's missing is the brand. You have to know what exactly you're ordering, though... of course not all noname products are the same qualitiy.

And sadly, the other way around it doesn't work either. You can spend a lot and still get a shitty product, that happened to me that often that i just stopped looking for "quality" in many cases. 

 

Foxxcon is supposed to be opening a plant in Wisconsin and produce electronics there, area wise it is supposed to be 1-2 square miles in size (maybe more). Not sure how they will handle the cost of environmental controls and such but whatever they make there won't be cheap (price wise).

 

I've read about a chinese company for textiles that plans to build a new factory for 200 million dollar in the US. Because it's cheaper. Not only that they don't have to pay for shipping things to the US, energy costs are lower, most resources they use a cheaper,... and while Chinas wages are still 1/3 of US wages, in China grow rate for wages is 30% every year. Until the new factory is finished, it's expected that they save a lot of money compared to producing at home. I guess it's similar to Foxxconn, at least energy costs are probably a point. And there was a video where the owner showed one of his factories, it's 90% machines and 10% people. That's what it looks like today in China, not what the new factory looks like. Even if wages stop growing, it probably wouldn't matter that much.

 

As far as fast food is concerned their income goes towards 3 categories: Food Costs, Labor and the Building related costs (utilities, rent etc...) and whatever is left is profit (not much).

 

I was a manager for Pizza Hut some time ago and the minimum wage was $5.15 / hr and 30%-35% of the income went to paying employees, 30% went to food costs and 30% went to building costs, uniforms and other things (cleaning supplies and such) which left about 5%-10% for profit. Considering that the typical Pizza Hut location averaged 13k in sales per week isn't much. Increases in wages have taken its toll on the fast food industry by increasing labor costs 50% or more and they still expect that same profit margin what do you do? Raise prices. Most pizza places have a delivery charge to help offset this and keep the per item cost down and help pay for the cost of the drivers. The Pizza Hut I ran (before delivery charges started) did 21k a week (over 1 million in sale / year which few hit). but when we started a 1$ delivery charge we lost $3000 a week in sales. My location was delivery/carryout only and we did 90% delivery so we had quite a bit come in due to the delivery charge. At the time they didn't know what to classify it as so it went to offset the cost of the building and my profit went to 25% yet they still wanted me to cut labor costs (was a corporate store) and that was when I left.

 

Arby's used to have a 5 for $5 sale, now it is 2 for $5. Now the normal price for 2 people at a fast food restaurant is $15-$20 though there are some deals still to be found occasionally.

 

(Fast) food industry depends a lot on people, you can't easily replace them by machines. It's service, not production. And it doesn't help at all to have a restaurant in China, outsourcing isn't really an option. So, hard to compare in some points, but indeed intresting.

And fast food in general is a difficult topic because it's something quite basic, depending on mass sales to make money. An acquaintance has a fashion shop, still service but she told me her marge is 400% and that's close to dumping prices in this branch. She has to pay rent, but probably muc less utility costs, she doesn't need much employees, and her resources are still cheaper than for you. No clue about the producers, i guess they get their share as well. That's been some years ago, not sure if it's still that way, but i think it didn't change too radically.

That's a good example i think where you pay 70% for the brand, 20% for service and 10% for quality if you don't know much about that like me. A cheap noname Jeans might even be higher quality than an expensive one and i can't tell the difference, so i stick with the cheap.

[isahale]

The simple answer is because economies are bloody complicated and there are a lot variables some of which are in direct opposition to each other. One thing I think contributes is that the average amount of time a products spends between production and purchase by as much as six months in some industries the price of products can very greatly by over supply. I live in a town with three major factory of which none of which even begin producing a product until it's already been bought and payed for as far as the factory is concerned there is no such thing as over production.

[Grine]

 

There are several reasons as to why this is happening.

 

Just the other day some people were discussing how Oreo cookies are now smaller, have less filling and yet the price is even more expensive.

Some guy's grandpa was actually measuring this stuff for years. In the company's accounting books the inventory now yields double or triple amount of profits compared to decades ago. (adjusted for inflation obviously)

 

As for the toasters, garage doors and other home appliances that seem to break down every few years is purely by design.

Why would I, as a toaster company, want to sell you a toaster that will serve your family for 10 or 20 years?

I would much rather serve you that toaster with a new exterior every 2 years.

 

The only thing that's arguably better these days are the cars and thats purely out of necessity because of fuel consumption and safety regulations.

Everything else they made "options" a system where everyone here I am sure knows about.

Reminds me of a joke.

Grandfather to grandson:

Today it's hard.

When i was young, i could go to the shop with a penny and come back with 6 eggs, a bottle of juice, a comic and some candy.

Can't do that anymore in these days... they have surveillance cameras everywhere!

 

But on topic: even with cars it's arguable if they are "better". Old stuff was not only lasting longer, it was also much easier to repair things yourself or at all. That you can't do that anymore is not only because it's high-tech, in many cases that's just purpose.

 

 

Don't forget how you have to fix it at the dealership and you have to periodically go to them or else they remotely turn off your car.

[Veladarius]

 

 

 

Considering most electronic devices from phones to PC components are made in China saying their quality is bad isn't correct. The quality of Chinese goods is tied to their cost, buy something cheap and it won't last but pay more for something of the same type and the quality tends to be higher. Korean and Japanese goods generally don't have a cheap version mainly due to environmental regulations which China lacks in many areas.

 

The quality of any product is tied to costs regardless where it's produced when it's about the minimum costs, but as mentioned, the conclusion that cheap price means cheap product isn't always true. Don't know if you know Bosch, a german company still known here for quality tools like power drills and stuff, but they also produce a lot in China. And those chinese factories build some more than Bosch ordered, selling the others without any brand on it much cheaper, but it's still exactly the same tool. All that's missing is the brand. You have to know what exactly you're ordering, though... of course not all noname products are the same qualitiy.

And sadly, the other way around it doesn't work either. You can spend a lot and still get a shitty product, that happened to me that often that i just stopped looking for "quality" in many cases. 

 

Just about every tool company is like this, having a brand name and no name version. My dad knows a number of companies like this from his days running a welding and machine shop. One thing you have to be careful of from Chinese companies though is there are a number of them that make cheap knock off's or counterfeit goods and you don't find out until after you bought them. While you are more likely to run into this when ordering items directly from China these are making their way into places like Amazon, luckily they have excellent return policies for these sorts of things (I bought an anime figure that was supposed to be an earlier version of one I had but the paint and overall quality was crap, they took it back with no problems).

 

 

 

Foxxcon is supposed to be opening a plant in Wisconsin and produce electronics there, area wise it is supposed to be 1-2 square miles in size (maybe more). Not sure how they will handle the cost of environmental controls and such but whatever they make there won't be cheap (price wise).

 

I've read about a chinese company for textiles that plans to build a new factory for 200 million dollar in the US. Because it's cheaper. Not only that they don't have to pay for shipping things to the US, energy costs are lower, most resources they use a cheaper,... and while Chinas wages are still 1/3 of US wages, in China grow rate for wages is 30% every year. Until the new factory is finished, it's expected that they save a lot of money compared to producing at home. I guess it's similar to Foxxconn, at least energy costs are probably a point. And there was a video where the owner showed one of his factories, it's 90% machines and 10% people. That's what it looks like today in China, not what the new factory looks like. Even if wages stop growing, it probably wouldn't matter that much.

 

Typically any items that are cheap and bulky are better to produce here as the shipping costs and tariffs kill them, thats why many appliances are made here and Japanese car makers build here. They will make small electronic parts overseas (anything that is used in vehicles made over there for world wide sale) and ship those here.

 

As far as fast food is concerned their income goes towards 3 categories: Food Costs, Labor and the Building related costs (utilities, rent etc...) and whatever is left is profit (not much).

 

I was a manager for Pizza Hut some time ago and the minimum wage was $5.15 / hr and 30%-35% of the income went to paying employees, 30% went to food costs and 30% went to building costs, uniforms and other things (cleaning supplies and such) which left about 5%-10% for profit. Considering that the typical Pizza Hut location averaged 13k in sales per week isn't much. Increases in wages have taken its toll on the fast food industry by increasing labor costs 50% or more and they still expect that same profit margin what do you do? Raise prices. Most pizza places have a delivery charge to help offset this and keep the per item cost down and help pay for the cost of the drivers. The Pizza Hut I ran (before delivery charges started) did 21k a week (over 1 million in sale / year which few hit). but when we started a 1$ delivery charge we lost $3000 a week in sales. My location was delivery/carryout only and we did 90% delivery so we had quite a bit come in due to the delivery charge. At the time they didn't know what to classify it as so it went to offset the cost of the building and my profit went to 25% yet they still wanted me to cut labor costs (was a corporate store) and that was when I left.

 

Arby's used to have a 5 for $5 sale, now it is 2 for $5. Now the normal price for 2 people at a fast food restaurant is $15-$20 though there are some deals still to be found occasionally.

 

(Fast) food industry depends a lot on people, you can't easily replace them by machines. It's service, not production. And it doesn't help at all to have a restaurant in China, outsourcing isn't really an option. So, hard to compare in some points, but indeed intresting.

And fast food in general is a difficult topic because it's something quite basic, depending on mass sales to make money. An acquaintance has a fashion shop, still service but she told me her marge is 400% and that's close to dumping prices in this branch. She has to pay rent, but probably muc less utility costs, she doesn't need much employees, and her resources are still cheaper than for you. No clue about the producers, i guess they get their share as well. That's been some years ago, not sure if it's still that way, but i think it didn't change too radically.

That's a good example i think where you pay 70% for the brand, 20% for service and 10% for quality if you don't know much about that like me. A cheap noname Jeans might even be higher quality than an expensive one and i can't tell the difference, so i stick with the cheap.

 

Fast food is an industry based on quantity, how many orders can they get a day. The Pizza Hut I ran was a Jeckyl / Hyde sort of store where 25% of the weeks sales were done in 4 hours on friday night and 20% on Saturday night. But most of my area was low income as well as Nellis Air Force Base so the 1st and 15th when people got their checks (especially the 1st) we were really busy.

 

A lot of people pay for brand names thinking they are better quality than no name items never knowing they may be the exact same item just without the tags. I never buy expensive clothes and if I was to go get something like a suit I would go someplace that would tailor it (Mens Warehouse here has good prices and will fit it to you), besides any dress shirts I buy never fit right without adjustment as I have a large neck (18.5 inches) but for t-shirts I just wear a 1XL size so getting a shirt that fits my neck ends up like a tent on the rest of me.

 

 

[GimmeBACON]

You get what you pay for? You go cheap, you pay for it in the long run?

 

Back in the day, the economy wasn't complete ass, that's part of why things were cheaper. There are ways to get quality goods, while not spending a fortune... learn how to make it yourself. I got an amazing couch that me and a friend built over a week that cost under $300 vs like $1500. 

 

I also buy food in bulk and freeze it instead of buying each days meal.

[Jazzman]

To solve the huge, relatively new problem of low priced low quality one has to stop taking new and/or maintaining old loans that consume the monthly earnings up to a critical extent so that one is ultimately forced to buy the cheapest crap on the market possible, from food to clothing and it doesn't end there. Get rid of your fuckin' loans that eat you (and your family) up, avoid them like the plague that inevitably turns once happy people with a bright future on the horizon into depressed, sometimes even aggressive loan slaves without any, owned by the banks, balls to bones. Don't pay by installments or you will be doomed, sooner or later, as just another foolish victim of their creeping accumulation...

 

Where has all the quality gone? Mostly gone down the highway it has, together with the producers. The remaining high quality became unaffordable for the average customer. And there is nothing, no prayer, no Tweety Twump that could ever tweet 'em back...

[KoolHndLuke]

 Tweety Twump 

[ISNAN]

I think how people define quality is just an illusion because us older folks can compare the past to that of today. If you ask a younger person about quality, they would probably define it differently because they are used to how it is now.  

 

Here is an example. My grandparents were born in the early part of the 20th century. While I was growing up in the 80s, we would go to their house and I always marveled at their furniture and appliances. It looked like a step into the 60s and I always wondered why they never bought the new stuff like my parents did. As I got older I realized why. It was because they didn't NEED to. Those items they had in their house was a collection of things they had accumulated over time to the point where they had everything they needed. Everything worked so there was no need to upgrade. (Upgrading wasn't even a thing back then). If something did break, like their T.V., they would just take it to a repair shop as opposed to buying a new one because it was way cheaper to do it that way since a new T.V. cost an arm and a leg. The reason my parents had the newer stuff is because they were collecting things for their house which were available in their time. That pricey T.V. was affordable to them because they simply didn't have one. I'm sure they were heading down the same path as my grandparents were with the notion that they wouldn't have to buy another one. If that trend continued, I'm sure I would step into their house today and get an 80s or 90s feel.

 

Now fast forward to today and here I am replacing T.V. after T.V. because they break and there is no repair man to fix it. Plus a new T.V. will have upgrades that my old T.V. didn't have. Luckily, they are cheap enough that it doesn't break the bank. I probably spent the same amount of money on my T.V.s as my grandparents did for their one T.V. 

 

So all in all, this "loss of quality" is a by product of a global economy and an ever increasing need to upgrade due to how fast technology is coming out. Luckily, prices have went down considerably so we can all keep up. Prices can't go down though if we cling to past notions about quality. 

[KoolHndLuke]

 

 

So all in all, this "loss of quality" is a by product of a global economy and an ever increasing need to upgrade due to how fast technology is coming out. Luckily, prices have went down considerably so we can all keep up. Prices can't go down though if we cling to past notions about quality. 

I was with you right up until this. Marketing strategies are formed now to convince us all to keep upgrading all the time. Bullshit I say. It is greed as much as a need to keep up with changes in technology. You tell me which is more affordable for the average household- buying just one good, dependable product they can expect to last or buying an "upgraded" product every year or so. I'm saying that manufacturers intentionally make crap so we keep buying more often and they can make more money. Also many products have nothing to do with technology. They are just plain made worse than they used to be and will continue to made that way until people wise up and stop fuckin buying them. At this rate we will have disposable cars by 2040! Would you like to turn around and buy a car every year? They line us up like cattle to graze at the feeder and they just keep dumping more shit for us to use a few times, throw away and come back for more. A disposable society is exactly what that implies- numbered and replaceable. And don't even get me started about automation tech putting many, many people out of work. Who benefits from that? Right- greedy corporations and manufacturers that want to put as little of their profits as possible back into the various businesses. Why pay ten workers to do the job a machine can do for nothing? It is an endless cycle of greed that will bleed you and your children and your grandchildren until the whole thing collapses in on itself leaving the world with a bunch of useless shit to clean up.

[ISNAN]

 

 

 

So all in all, this "loss of quality" is a by product of a global economy and an ever increasing need to upgrade due to how fast technology is coming out. Luckily, prices have went down considerably so we can all keep up. Prices can't go down though if we cling to past notions about quality. 

 

 

I agree with you for the most part. I was being more simplistic earlier in my post. 

 

 

A global economy is really what is driving these cheaper products, but it's not a bad thing. People wouldn't be able to afford their smartphones or computers if they were 100% made in the U.S. because most of the core technology comes from overseas. Little things like transistors and circuit boards. It would cost and arm and a leg if it was made in the U.S. Just imagine if the U.S. made all of it's products here and only employed here. Costs would skyrocket and people wouldn't be able to afford anything because of the prices. Business's would not only have to pay for all of the ingredients to make said product, but they would also have to pay for the worker's salary, pensions, and other crap that goes along with running a business here. Just look at GM or other auto companies. Why do you think a car cost the same as a house? It's because GM has to pay the pensions of past workers who no longer work there. They have to pay their workers $30 an hour. There is no reason we shouldn't have cheaper cars by now when the sole idea of vehicle ownership is simply to get you from point A to point B. The only people who can actually afford those cars are people the GM workers or people in the upper tax brackets, while the poor get left behind. They have have to get from point A to B in order to work.  Now a person COULD drive a used car that is 10-20 years old, which is what a lot of poor folks do, but that car wont not have the UPDATED safety, electrical, and mechanical features that make vehicle more efficient and safer. 

 

When it comes to upgrading, that is just a byproduct of an ever increasing technological society. Global trade has fueled this because now we can buy technologies that were developed by other companies and vice versa. Technology gets outdated much, much faster these days. A good example of is when the FCC required broadcasters to air in High Definition. There was a a lot of good that comes from HD and we needed to get on board, but it wouldn't have worked if people didn't upgrade to a HD T.V.

 

Why keep using old products when newer products do so much more and helps the overall good. Things like smart appliances that regulate their energy footprint and feeds it back into the grid. The consumer saves on their electric bill while at the same time it gives power stations juice to spread.

 

Now some people simply do not want global trade at all. They say it kills jobs. Well yeah, jobs come and go in order for new jobs to be created. It's inevitable. I'm sure people back in the 1800's complained about their "horse manure street removal" jobs when the automobile came along. It put them out of work, but look at all the jobs that came afterwards that were centered around the automobile. I'm sure the people breaking ice from rivers and selling it to local neighbors complained about the refrigerator, but look at all the jobs that came after that. 

 

Jobs are out there, but people have to adapt to the times. These days it requires a degree in some field. The fields they talk about are S.T.E.M. (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math). What worries me is how a person goes from working in a coal mine to programming. The gap the is THAT huge. Those old jobs wont disappear overnight, so they still have time to educate themselves, but once automation and A.I. take off, it will replace a lot of these jobs. The adage is this...."If your job is repetitious and requires little to no thinking, then it WILL get replaced." That means the jobs of tomorrow (20-30 years from now), will require a person to be a thinker. Something that A.I. and automation can't replace as easily. That is what they mean by "pulling up your bootstraps".

[Reginald_001]

It's a scientific and statistical proven fact that human beings always view the past differently than it actually was. Most negative details are forgotten and the brain focusses on the reinforcing memories of that time. This is biological fact.

 

I was born and raised in the 70's.

And most of the stuff that came out in that time was utter (excuse words) fucking crap. Most toys broke in the first weeks, were cheap and often far more dangerous than today. In the 70's and 80's there was a real chance of nuclear destruction. There were gruesome wars, economical problems, poverty, riots. There were many bad medical experiments, sometimes pushed across normal people. (Did we forget the DDT children? An entire generation of kids growing up misformed due to government aided vaccinations in the 70's???).

 

When it came to products and quality... Only the most expensive products were good products. I could make a post of literally thousands of things that are better today both in quality of product, endurance but even more importantly service. Our customer rights have never been this good, never.

 

I come back to the biological fact that most older people say 'Everything was better in the past'.

And it just applies. To the first post, and to a lot of posts in this thread.

 

Sorry for being so honest about it. I don't mean to offend or anything, I just feel truth needs to be spoken.

[KoolHndLuke]

It's a scientific and statistical proven fact that human beings always view the past differently than it actually was. Most negative details are forgotten and the brain focusses on the reinforcing memories of that time. This is biological fact.

 

I was born and raised in the 70's.

And most of the stuff that came out in that time was utter (excuse words) fucking crap. Most toys broke in the first weeks, were cheap and often far more dangerous than today. In the 70's and 80's there was a real chance of nuclear destruction. There were gruesome wars, economical problems, poverty, riots. There were many bad medical experiments, sometimes pushed across normal people. (Did we forget the DDT children? An entire generation of kids growing up misformed due to government aided vaccinations in the 70's???).

 

When it came to products and quality... Only the most expensive products were good products. I could make a post of literally thousands of things that are better today both in quality of product, endurance but even more importantly service. Our customer rights have never been this good, never.

 

I come back to the biological fact that most older people say 'Everything was better in the past'.

And it just applies. To the first post, and to a lot of posts in this thread.

 

Sorry for being so honest about it. I don't mean to offend or anything, I just feel truth needs to be spoken.

You make it sound like everyone over the age of 30 should be dismissed as some fumbling, senile old wanker. Besides, by your own admitted belief in what some idiot scientist said, your memories are no more credible than anyone else from that time. I can assure you that is not the case. Just because you happen to remember things a bit differently does not make you automatically right. Most opinions on the past so far have been in agreement to some extent with my assessment of the quality from yesteryear. Also, all the things you listed such as wars, economical problems, poverty, riots still fucking happen today. Oh, and Govt's still fuck-up on a fairly regular basis, their just a little better at hiding it.

[Zor2k13]

The growth of things was something like 8% in the 80s now people see 2% as some kind of big deal here in america. Everything lives and everything dies including countries and economies. We have to crash before we can burn and whatever is left rises up and finally gets it then decides not to do that again. Of course we as a species do that again and again according to history so we seem to be destined to play out like a broken record.

[Reginald_001]

 

It's a scientific and statistical proven fact that human beings always view the past differently than it actually was. Most negative details are forgotten and the brain focusses on the reinforcing memories of that time. This is biological fact.

 

I was born and raised in the 70's.

And most of the stuff that came out in that time was utter (excuse words) fucking crap. Most toys broke in the first weeks, were cheap and often far more dangerous than today. In the 70's and 80's there was a real chance of nuclear destruction. There were gruesome wars, economical problems, poverty, riots. There were many bad medical experiments, sometimes pushed across normal people. (Did we forget the DDT children? An entire generation of kids growing up misformed due to government aided vaccinations in the 70's???).

 

When it came to products and quality... Only the most expensive products were good products. I could make a post of literally thousands of things that are better today both in quality of product, endurance but even more importantly service. Our customer rights have never been this good, never.

 

I come back to the biological fact that most older people say 'Everything was better in the past'.

And it just applies. To the first post, and to a lot of posts in this thread.

 

Sorry for being so honest about it. I don't mean to offend or anything, I just feel truth needs to be spoken.

You make it sound like everyone over the age of 30 should be dismissed as some fumbling, senile old wanker. Besides, by your own admitted belief in what some idiot scientist said, your memories are no more credible than anyone else from that time. I can assure you that is not the case. Just because you happen to remember things a bit differently does not make you automatically right. Most opinions on the past so far have been in agreement to some extent with my assessment of the quality from yesteryear. Also, all the things you listed such as wars, economical problems, poverty, riots still fucking happen today. Oh, and Govt's still fuck-up on a fairly regular basis, their just a little better at hiding it.

I'ld be interested to discuss this further. But not with this condescending tone and arrogance.

[SimpleSpectre]

Cars from a few decades ago were quite a bit nicer to me, especially from a maintenance perspective. Much easier to work on an older vehicle as compared to a newer one. Actually have room to tinker with everything as opposed to the zero space clusterfuck of most modern cars and trucks. Purely conjecture on my part. But I find it hard to beat the power and style of an old Muscle Car.

[pinky6225]

Cars from a few decades ago were quite a bit nicer to me, especially from a maintenance perspective. Much easier to work on an older vehicle as compared to a newer one. Actually have room to tinker with everything as opposed to the zero space clusterfuck of most modern cars and trucks. Purely conjecture on my part. But I find it hard to beat the power and style of an old Muscle Car.

 

I think the reasoning is that people will go to a garage (or if the manufactor is really lucky one of there dealerships) for maintenance rather than do it themselves although a lot of simple car maintenance was never that easy to begin with,changing a bulb on my first car involved lots of groping around under the bonnet to find catchs and then slide the bulb in. On my current car you have to remove the entire light fixture and while that solves the groping around in the dark it makes it more time consuming and you need a couple of screw drivers

 

That said car ownership itself has changed quite a lot, where i work you have a choice of a company car or a cash payment and use your own but then you have to handle insurance, tax, keeping the car on the road etc so i'm in the minority of taking the cash as most go for the company car and then whenever they have any issue (even to needing to change a bulb) its done by arrangement for them by an approved garage (more to protect the resale value of the car than convenience for the user i would suspect)

[flutie]

do not tell me its not the right order, you ordered online, you got what you ordered, BUTTT, I will send him back out there  for you,  THE QUALITY IS GONE ONCE THE DRIVER SEES BULLSHIT. GOING BACK TO AN ADDRESS THEY HE/SHE JUST WENT TOO, ALREADY, BECAUSE THE WINGS WERE NOT COVERED IN THE SAUCE, YOU DEMAND TOO MUCH

[KoolHndLuke]

do not tell me its not the right order, you ordered online, you got what you ordered, BUTTT, I will send him back out there  for you,  THE QUALITY IS GONE ONCE THE DRIVER SEES BULLSHIT. GOING BACK TO AN ADDRESS THEY HE/SHE JUST WENT TOO, ALREADY, BECAUSE THE WINGS WERE NOT COVERED IN THE SAUCE, YOU DEMAND TOO MUCH

I didn't order any wings. But I'll take some pizza!

[flutie]

Its JUST LL

 

do not tell me its not the right order, you ordered online, you got what you ordered, BUTTT, I will send him back out there  for you,  THE QUALITY IS GONE ONCE THE DRIVER SEES BULLSHIT. GOING BACK TO AN ADDRESS THEY HE/SHE JUST WENT TOO, ALREADY, BECAUSE THE WINGS WERE NOT COVERED IN THE SAUCE, YOU DEMAND TOO MUCH

I didn't order any wings. But I'll take some pizza!

 

 

 

do not tell me its not the right order, you ordered online, you got what you ordered, BUTTT, I will send him back out there  for you,  THE QUALITY IS GONE ONCE THE DRIVER SEES BULLSHIT. GOING BACK TO AN ADDRESS THEY HE/SHE JUST WENT TOO, ALREADY, BECAUSE THE WINGS WERE NOT COVERED IN THE SAUCE, YOU DEMAND TOO MUCH

I didn't order any wings. But I'll take some pizza!

 

very cool

[SimpleSpectre]

 

Cars from a few decades ago were quite a bit nicer to me, especially from a maintenance perspective. Much easier to work on an older vehicle as compared to a newer one. Actually have room to tinker with everything as opposed to the zero space clusterfuck of most modern cars and trucks. Purely conjecture on my part. But I find it hard to beat the power and style of an old Muscle Car.

 

I think the reasoning is that people will go to a garage (or if the manufactor is really lucky one of there dealerships) for maintenance rather than do it themselves although a lot of simple car maintenance was never that easy to begin with,changing a bulb on my first car involved lots of groping around under the bonnet to find catchs and then slide the bulb in. On my current car you have to remove the entire light fixture and while that solves the groping around in the dark it makes it more time consuming and you need a couple of screw drivers

 

That said car ownership itself has changed quite a lot, where i work you have a choice of a company car or a cash payment and use your own but then you have to handle insurance, tax, keeping the car on the road etc so i'm in the minority of taking the cash as most go for the company car and then whenever they have any issue (even to needing to change a bulb) its done by arrangement for them by an approved garage (more to protect the resale value of the car than convenience for the user i would suspect)

 

 

I agree with you on what you said. But what I was referring to was the mechanical end of the job. Maintenance on a transmission or a block is far more simple on an older vehicle than a newer one. Although I'm a poor mechanic and an amateur at best. But I've had a fair share of vehicles from different periods. But I get sick of working on new dodge pickups that have 4-wheel drive that constantly turns with no toggle. What results is a fragmentation of the transfer case because the small drive shaft that runs the front axle can't handle the constant strain and ends up severing at one end. Resulting in a near totaled vehicle at 70mph on the highway. Not a pleasant experience especially when the cheapest laborer will end up charging $15,000 at the least because it ripped your wiring harness, brake lines, and fuel lines to shreds. On top of cracking your transmission.

 

The thought that they design it that way for you to take it to a dealer is a logical conclusion because it would be an easy way to gouge a customer. I hate the accessibility aspect of newer vehicles, everything is compact and cramped, or just designed to be blatantly impossible to work on without extremely specialized tools. Making a Dragster from an old car was a lot of fun if a bit expensive, but it was always easier than trying to do it with a new car.

[Ashkandii]

I think its just a "global Phase" Something that happens for quiet the long time then one day everything changes.

 

WW2 could be an example, shit happened now everything is shitty, they ended it then everything went non-shitty again

 

For more long term example After WW1 where 6 million Africans migrated to America then boom, Racism and inequality, shitty jobs shitty places to live, treated like shit till around like early 70s where things started to balance out and fixed itself.

 

Eventually something will happen for quality of products to start rising again without the price doing so, but "eventually could be 5 years, 25 years,100 years maybe it never will.

[peculiaris]

Everything was better in the past, just ask my grandfather,

 

But seriously that is something everyone thinks, my dad, my granddad etc.

 

It's not "better" it different and adapting becomes harder at an older age.