Big Boys DON'T Cry!

[KoolHndLuke]

I was allowed to cry when I was a baby. I think I even cried a few times as a boy of 4-5 yrs old. But, sometime in my young life, someone (my dad?) told me that boys crying was not acceptable. I think I asked him why and he explained that crying- for boys or men- shows weakness. He was right in that it was not acceptable behavior for "big" boys or men. Any man can testify to this since you would be called "pussy", "weakling", "momma's boy" or any number of other insults intended to humiliate and "educate" you.

 

It is so ingrained into my psyche as a man that I cannot cry! Sometimes I want to and can't. Sometimes I feel weak and pitiful. I remember as a "baby" when I could cry, I usually felt better afterwards- not because my mom said it was okay and consoled me- but, because I was letting out frustration. After I learned that I "couldn't" do this anymore, I started to break and destroy things, get in fights, and join in persecuting any other "pussies".

 

So boys and men are not allowed to show weakness? Where did this completely fucked up idea come from? Is it preferable to see an angry young boy or man who is bent on destruction? Where do you think some of that anger comes from if not from suppressed feelings of pain or sorrow? Does it make a man "less" to feel sorrow or self pity in trying times and show it? Can a man that shows vulnerability from time to time still be considered "strong" or "masculine"?

 

 

[winny257]

nonsense, do you know what strength is?
Strength is to show his feelings and when it is to the crying, then one should cry.
everything you have described I know well enough, they are phrases from the Middle Ages.
who his feelings does not show (buried deep inside), the embittered more and more, until the catastrophe. 

[Andukar]

Well, of course you cannot cry for any reason, such for example, after hitting the finger in attempts to hammer a nail, but when you have pain in soul, you can freely cry, bc crying is protective function of the body to save nerves. But here one true - never cry publicly for reasons not related to any grief. If you cry publicy, peoples who knows you will react differently.

[mercplatypus]

Warfare and work mostly.

 

I served in the United States Marine Corps.  I was trained to function in any fighting that occurred as a rifleman.  When it came to emotions the simple fact of the matter was that crying didn't just "show weakness" but could negatively affect the morale of the people around you.  It was one thing if you let it all out in private with the chaplain but in front of everyone else?  You start breaking down and then the negative stuff spreads like a wildfire.  Pretty soon people start thinking the entire thing is hopeless and desertions start to happen.  We were taught that we had to have a tight reign on all of our emotions, especially sadness and anger, or our lack of emotionally maturity could be dangerous/deadly to those around us.

 

After I got out I worked in disaster relief cleaning up and rebuilding areas that were affected by fire and floods.  The people you are helping never need you to cry.  They need you to be that pillar of strength that makes them feel like everything is going to be alright.  On top of that in most situations you could either spend your time crying about things or doing something about them.  As the guy rebuilding some one's house I was there to do something about it.

 

Emotions are a strangely contagious thing.  One person can brighten up an entire room or drag everyone into the muck with them and ruin every one's day.  Emotional health is not just about freely expressing ones emotions but knowing when to express them.  It is not unmanly to experience sadness or depression.  There are plenty of occasions where it is simply not the right place or time to just let it all out.

[StevePanker]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I was allowed to cry when I was a baby. I think I even cried a few times as a boy of 4-5 yrs old. But, sometime in my young life, someone (my dad?) told me that boys crying was not acceptable. I think I asked him why and he explained that crying- for boys or men- shows weakness. He was right in that it was not acceptable behavior for young boys or men. Any man can testify to this since you would be called "pussy", "weakling", "momma's boy" or any number of other insults intended to humiliate and "educate" you.

 

It is so ingrained into my psyche as a man that I cannot cry! Sometimes I want to and can't. Sometimes I feel weak and pitiful. I remember as a "baby" when I could cry, I usually felt better afterwards- not because my mom said it was okay and consoled me- but, because I was letting out frustration. After I learned that I "couldn't" do this anymore, I started to break and destroy things, get in fights, and join in persecuting any other "pussies".

 

So boys and men are not allowed to show weakness? Where did this completely fucked up idea come from? Is it preferable to see an angry young boy or man who is bent on destruction? Where do you think some of that anger comes from if not from suppressed feelings of pain or sorrow? Does it make a man "less" to feel sorrow or self pity in trying times and show it? Can a man that shows vulnerability from time to time still be considered "strong" or "masculine"?

 

 

 

I think you're pretty much dead on with everything you said, but I can't help but wonder why you decided to say it. Seems like the kind of thing you only really stop to ponder and put into words when there's something going on your life that you might want to cry over but can't...

[azoth1267]

Crying over loss or pain is one thing (like say a death in the family), but the current class of people that think its all well and good to cry at the drop of a hat is just stupid.

 

Is crying a sign of weakness?

Yes. Lack of emotional stability and control is weakness.

 

Is showing weakness bad?

By definition, yes.

 

When/where did this come from?

It came from life and the harsh reality that emotions are mostly meaningless and a show of them even more so. Cry all you wish, it will not fix your problems or make things any better.

 

Should men/boys be unthinking/feeling machines?

Not really, but neither should you start crying over the pitifully pointless shit that people are so want to do these days.

 

Can someone who shows sorrow/fear/pain be masculine?

No and yes, it is not so cut and dry to say you can show/have/be only one (manly or a pussy).

Take for instance the current trend of males these days, "soy boys" as i often hear, there is no greater example of "pussy" than that.

 

A moment of weakness is fine, nobody will fault you for that, blubbering inconsolably is something else entirely and i worry that you are conflating the two.

Stoic robot or soy boy, neither option is correct and the fact that people think that they have to go with either is worrying.

 

tldr

Crying in a moment of pain/loss/sorrow is not the same as blubbering like a baby over pointless shit.

[KoolHndLuke]

I can understand not crying or showing weakness in situations where it may lower morale. But, in regular public why do you think it is frowned upon? What if a man just lost everything on Wall Street or in a divorce? What if his favorite pet just died? You can't normally control when you feel sad or like crying just like you can't always control other emotions.

 

 Why are women allowed to show these emotions in public and no one thinks anything about it? I've seen women cry over many things- in front of stadiums full of people! My response to this is always to comfort them some how. Yet, if people see a man do the same thing- then people judge him calling him names and thinking him weak. Why the difference? What is a man supposed to represent that a woman doesn't? Strength? Confidence? It's a lie. A man often feels many emotions, yet, is only "allowed" to show a portion of them at appropriate times. Whereas a woman is free to show any emotion at any time and not to justify it usually. At least it seems that way.

 

One person has said that it does indeed show "weakness" or "emotional instability". So a man is not allowed to feel these things? Or they just can't show it in front of others? And why can't they be allowed to feel them or show them? We are to forever maintain an illusion of strength and stability even when that is far from how we might feel some times? That seems extremely judgmental and biased.

[StevePanker]

46 minutes ago, mercplatypus said:

Warfare and work mostly.

 

I served in the United States Marine Corps.  I was trained to function in any fighting that occurred as a rifleman.  When it came to emotions the simple fact of the matter was that crying didn't just "show weakness" but could negatively affect the morale of the people around you.  It was one thing if you let it all out in private with the chaplain but in front of everyone else?  You start breaking down and then the negative stuff spreads like a wildfire.  Pretty soon people start thinking the entire thing is hopeless and desertions start to happen.  We were taught that we had to have a tight reign on all of our emotions, especially sadness and anger, or our lack of emotionally maturity could be dangerous/deadly to those around us.

 

After I got out I worked in disaster relief cleaning up and rebuilding areas that were affected by fire and floods.  The people you are helping never need you to cry.  They need you to be that pillar of strength that makes them feel like everything is going to be alright.  On top of that in most situations you could either spend your time crying about things or doing something about them.  As the guy rebuilding some one's house I was there to do something about it.

 

Emotions are a strangely contagious thing.  One person can brighten up an entire room or drag everyone into the muck with them and ruin every one's day.  Emotional health is not just about freely expressing ones emotions but knowing when to express them.  It is not unmanly to experience sadness or depression.  There are plenty of occasions where it is simply not the right place or time to just let it all out.

 

As a former soldier myself, I can definitely relate to that, but there's one caveat to the whole thing.

 

War is horrible and if you never allow yourself to feel what it's done to you and react to that in healthy ways - of which crying can be one - it can build up and fester, slowly destroying you from the inside.

 

No, you don't want to start crying your eyes out in the middle of the battlefield or in front of the people you're supposed to be helping or protecting from harm, but many soldiers (myself included) have this so engrained in them that even when the right time and place presents itself, they can't let go and get it out. For some, that leads to a coldheartedness that protects them from ever truly feeling anything. They can function, but not always as well as they'd like. Some can't quite turn their emotions off, but still feel like they have to, so they self-medicate with various addictions. But the absolute worst consequence is when a few of our brothers and sisters in arms are so torn up inside, but don't know what to do about it that they turn their frustrations outward and end up hurting people who don't deserve it. Sometimes that leads to horrible war crimes and sometimes they take it home and inflict pain on friends and family.

 

Sure, it's good for soldiers to learn to reign in their emotions when it's necessary, but why don't we deem it equally valuable to also teach them how to deal with them in the right time and place? Why doesn't "learning to control your emotions" also include when to actually acknowledge that they're there for a reason and need the appropriate attention for you to keep functioning, not just as a soldier, but as a human being as well?

[azoth1267]

Ah, so thats what you really wanted to ask op, "why its ok for women and not for men", i got you.

 

The reality is there is no real answer for you.

Cultural norms, social queues, sexual dimorphism, biological imperatives... quite literally everything that has lead up to this point in time has played a role in this.

There is no answer.

[KoolHndLuke]

So, because it has always existed, then it should be accepted and never questioned? I don't believe that about anything.

[azoth1267]

Oh no no question everything, thats all well and good, i just dont think you will ever find an answer. Least of all an answer that will be any better than "thats just how things are".

[winny257]

55 minutes ago, azoth1267 said:

Crying over loss or pain is one thing (like say a death in the family), but the current class of people that think its all well and good to cry at the drop of a hat is just stupid.

 

Is crying a sign of weakness?

Yes. Lack of emotional stability and control is weakness.

 

Is showing weakness bad?

By definition, yes.

 

When/where did this come from?

It came from life and the harsh reality that emotions are mostly meaningless and a show of them even more so. Cry all you wish, it will not fix your problems or make things any better.

 

Should men/boys be unthinking/feeling machines?

Not really, but neither should you start crying over the pitifully pointless shit that people are so want to do these days.

 

Can someone who shows sorrow/fear/pain be masculine?

No and yes, it is not so cut and dry to say you can show/have/be only one (manly or a pussy).

Take for instance the current trend of males these days, "soy boys" as i often hear, there is no greater example of "pussy" than that.

 

A moment of weakness is fine, nobody will fault you for that, blubbering inconsolably is something else entirely and i worry that you are conflating the two.

Stoic robot or soy boy, neither option is correct and the fact that people think that they have to go with either is worrying.

 

tldr

Crying in a moment of pain/loss/sorrow is not the same as blubbering like a baby over pointless shit.

I'm just saying unfeeling, why not cry?
Already once heard of tears of joy, one must not cry always about bad situations in life, one can also laugh tears and that happens to me more often as you think. 

[StevePanker]

41 minutes ago, azoth1267 said:

Lack of emotional stability and control is weakness.

 

If you believe that, then you should also believe that bottling up any feelings that might lead to emotional instability and loss of control further down the road is weakness in and of itself...

[Canaris]

Of course boys dont cry.

Because crying IS a sign of weakness. Not just that it is SEEN but it really is.

Crying is what toddlers do, cry and wait for others to fix their shit for them.

There is no excuse for crying as a grown up men.

 

Oh and women should stop crying too because its fucking embarassing. 

[GrimReaper]

37 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

So, because it has always existed, then it should be accepted and never questioned? I don't believe that about anything.

Crying is a distress signal and that can be observed in newborn babies. They have no agency at all, that's why the cry for every little thing that happens or don't happens. As children grow older and subsequently gain agency, they're encouraged to cry less and communicate through language instead. That way, you know that something really bad is happening if people cry when they're adults. That doesn't mean that men should be shamed into not showing emotion, however I do think that having control over yourself is a virtue for any human bean. I'd go the other way and claim that women in general cry too much (not everyone, of course). There are women who cry about every little thing and thus you never know if the reason for their crying is actually something sincere and important or not. The idea that women have little to no agency and because of that the men in her life are responsible for her actions is nothing new but in recent times that stigma has seen a resurgence under the mantle of progressiveness. Or something like that

[azoth1267]

7 minutes ago, winny257 said:

Already once heard of tears of joy, one must not cry always about bad situations in life, one can also laugh tears and that happens to me more often as you think. 

Ive come to tears from laughing too much many times. That is not the same thing as what we are talking about.

Thats more or less a physiological response not unlike plucking a nose hair will cause you to tear up.

 

Tears of joy is a little more on topic as its another emotionally charged response (though one that i personally think is just theatrics for the sake of it).

It is still a show of weakness (ie a lack of control) but it is not frowned at as much or at all really.

 

As to why that is... again too many things to take into account to accurately say.

[GrimReaper]

4 minutes ago, Canaris said:

 

Because crying IS a sign of weakness. Not just that it is SEEN but it really is.

Nah that's a modern interpretation. Back then when you were out with your tribe hunting and shit not crying like a wailing banshee when something bad happened (for example you got mauled by a bear or whatever) you were actually endangering the rest of your peeps because they wouldn't know that a predator was stalking the hunting party. It's an alarm signal and should be used as such, otherwise you are the boy who cried wolf. If you're like a malfunctioning fire alarm system people are going to burn to death simply because you've given out so many false alarms that when shit really starts burning this time nobody is going to bother because they'll think it's one of your usual tantrums.

[azoth1267]

19 minutes ago, StevePanker said:

 

If you believe that, then you should also believe that bottling up any feelings that might lead to emotional instability and loss of control further down the road is weakness in and of itself...

Yes, it is weak when you let things take control of you, that is what that is... weakness.

Emotions are not the problem, its being weak enough to let yourself be controlled by them that is.

[winny257]

11 minutes ago, azoth1267 said:

Ive come to tears from laughing too much many times. That is not the same thing as what we are talking about.

Thats more or less a physiological response not unlike plucking a nose hair will cause you to tear up.

 

Tears of joy is a little more on topic as its another emotionally charged response (though one that i personally think is just theatrics for the sake of it).

It is still a show of weakness (ie a lack of control) but it is not frowned at as much or at all really.

 

As to why that is... again too many things to take into account to accurately say.

I also cried in sad situations and this in public and at that moment I did not care what others think about it.

[Sethster]

I always found that ridiculous. I, myself, am not too sensitive. I don't show off my emotions easily, NOT because I don't want to appear "weak" in other people's eyes. I just have great control over myself. These days, I only shed a tear or two if I'm hysterically laughing.

 

But yeah, the whole "men aren't supposed to cry" stigma is absolutely ridiculous imho. 

[winny257]

19 minutes ago, azoth1267 said:

Yes, it is weak when you let things take control of you, that is what that is... weakness.

Emotions are not the problem, its being weak enough to let yourself be controlled by them that is.

do you have parents, a wife or children?
once only assumed, one of these people dies, which I do not hope, then you stand in the cemetery in front of the coffin and no emotions from you because it means weakness.
I think I'll keep the rest for myself. 

[StevePanker]

7 minutes ago, azoth1267 said:

Yes, it is weak when you let things take control of you, that is what that is... weakness.

Emotions are not the problem, its being weak enough to let yourself be controlled by them that is.

 

And by that logic, not letting your emotions out (for instance by crying) when you have a real need to and it's obviously the healthiest thing for you to do at that moment will lead directly to emotional instability, which in turn leads to lack of control, which is weakness.

 

From there it naturally follows that under certain circumstances, crying can actually be a mark of strength, since it can prevent long term emotional instability and loss of control.

 

Now, I'm not arguing that people should just run around crying over every little thing that goes wrong in their lives. If you have a tendency toward that - whether you're male or female - you're decidedly NOT emotionally stable. But when big, life-altering events happen that are completely out of your control and you're overcome with emotion, then if it's a choice between letting yourself vent your frustrations here and now through tears, getting it overwith and moving on or shoving it all down, letting it fester, only to have it bubble up to the surface and control your decision making later on, I argue that letting it out can be the better, smarter and even stronger choice.

[azoth1267]

2 minutes ago, winny257 said:

do you have parents, a wife or children?
once only assumed, one of these people dies, which I do not hope, then you stand in the cemetery in front of the coffin and no emotions from you because it means weakness.
I think I'll keep the rest for myself. 

I never said that one should not cry or be emotional, im just saying that crying is a sign of weakness.

There is nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is.

[azoth1267]

14 minutes ago, StevePanker said:

 

And by that logic, not letting your emotions out (for instance by crying) when you have a real need to and it's obviously the healthiest thing for you to do at that moment will lead directly to emotional instability, which in turn leads to lack of control, which is weakness.

 

From there it naturally follows that under certain circumstances, crying can actually be a mark of strength, since it can prevent long term emotional instability and loss of control.

Exactly correct.

We are all flawed weak creatures, admitting that weakness and moving on is in fact where strength comes from.

[winny257]

25 minutes ago, azoth1267 said:

I never said that one should not cry or be emotional, im just saying that crying is a sign of weakness.

There is nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is.

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