CTD from wearing a certain armor

[Lulu Ashfield]

Dears who read, will read or are reading XD,

I am having a CTD whenever I put on a 'certain' piece of equipment

Mod in question is the 'Dark Knight Armor' by Dint. I use the final version 1.5
 

Spoiler

https://gamer-mods.ru/load/tes_v_skyrim/bronja_dlja_cbbe_unp_7b_adec/kostjum_dark_knight/11-1-0-5334

To be precise, the 'Cuirass' piece. Open spoiler to see the piece in question

((Sorry!! For some reason, I can't take screenshot from inside the inventory, and I CAN"T WEAR THE DAMN PIECE TO TAKE DIRECT SCREENSHOT OF IT SINCE IT CTDS!!!!))
 

Spoiler

NOTE: I use the UUNP Bodyslide by....wtfuuun??? Is that what he calls himself?? XD
I use all the bodyslide files from his work to have the whole mod bodyslided to my favorite UUNP body
 

Spoiler

https://wtfuuun.tumblr.com/post/163050047953/bdo-dark-knight-v14-uunp-hdt-require-the-main-mod

Now, there's a GAZILLION piece in this mod, and all of them work just fine, except this ONE!! That causes CTD whenever I press it

I tried everything I can, but I still get CTD, but I admit, it did sometimes NOT CTD, maybe 3 or four times??

Note: While I was digging for a solution, I DID notice that this piece is the only one that occupies the 54 slot...dunno if that's useful or not

ANY help would MUCH appreciated. I really love this particular armor and it would be a shame not to be able to wear the whole 'Dark Knight' set without this cuirass. I mean, I wouldn't die or anything, but....I like it XD

Thanks in advance <3

[bandygirl1]

Well, assuming you have all of the requirements listed for the main mod, the only thing I can think of is that wtfuuun states that his conversion requires v1.4 of the main mod, and you are using v1.5.

 

W/O knowing what was changed between the two versions, no idea if that would be your issue or not.

 

 

[Psalam]

36 minutes ago, bandygirl1 said:

Well, assuming you have all of the requirements listed for the main mod, the only thing I can think of is that wtfuuun states that his conversion requires v1.4 of the main mod, and you are using v1.5.

 

W/O knowing what was changed between the two versions, no idea if that would be your issue or not.

 

 

Oh come in. 

He gave you the Dark Knight site (in Russian). The version 1.5 changelog reads: (in English)

- new swords,
- Alternative versions of swords with HDT support
- some models have been fixed
- did not begin to add new hairstyles and I do not plan.
- most likely this is the last update. Nothing new will be added. (but minor edits and corrections are possible)

Nothing there looks like it explains it either. Certainly nothing big about the cuirass.

I'm tapped out too. 

[Lulu Ashfield]

On 5/4/2018 at 10:58 PM, bandygirl1 said:

Well, assuming you have all of the requirements listed for the main mod, the only thing I can think of is that wtfuuun states that his conversion requires v1.4 of the main mod, and you are using v1.5.

 

W/O knowing what was changed between the two versions, no idea if that would be your issue or not.

 

 

 

On 5/4/2018 at 11:38 PM, Psalam said:

Oh come in. 

He gave you the Dark Knight site (in Russian). The version 1.5 changelog reads: (in English)

- new swords,
- Alternative versions of swords with HDT support
- some models have been fixed
- did not begin to add new hairstyles and I do not plan.
- most likely this is the last update. Nothing new will be added. (but minor edits and corrections are possible)

Nothing there looks like it explains it either. Certainly nothing big about the cuirass.

I'm tapped out too. 

Well, the thing is...I DID TRY V1.4 as well XD
And I got the same thing...T_T

[Psalam]

1 minute ago, Lulu Ashfield said:

 

Well, the thing is...I DID TRY V1.4 as well XD
And I got the same thing...T_T

Sorry I thought someone else would pick this up - I admit I went to bed.

The most common cause of this is not having the appropriate skeleton. There are other causes including incompatibilities of mods (yes even armor can mess with this other mods), not having a clean version of the mod (clean with TES5 edit) and even inappropriate load order (run LOOT). However, most often your skeleton and the armor just don't get along. 

[Lulu Ashfield]

18 hours ago, Psalam said:

Sorry I thought someone else would pick this up - I admit I went to bed.

The most common cause of this is not having the appropriate skeleton. There are other causes including incompatibilities of mods (yes even armor can mess with this other mods), not having a clean version of the mod (clean with TES5 edit) and even inappropriate load order (run LOOT). However, most often your skeleton and the armor just don't get along. 

n.p

I don't think it's related to the load order, coz I do use LOOT and I double check any overwritten files through MO
And LOOT doesn't show that it needs cleaning, so I am guessing we can aslo scratch that out

But I guess it might have something to do with the skeleton. I use "xp32 maximum skeleton extended", or XPMSE fo short
It's the only skeleton I use (Since it's only I could find aside from the original xp32 skeleton?)
And it recently got updated, so maybe it has something to with it, but I am not sure

NOTE: Dark Knight doesn't overwrite XPMSE at all on MO

Anyways, thanks for the tip. I will dig up some more and check what I can do. Thanks again

 

[Corsayr]

is your HDT otherwise working? As in when you do not have this outfit installed do you have HDT?

 

Trying to use an HDT article of clothing without that working correctly can cause crashing. 

 

Just asking cuz it hasn't been brought up yet. 

 

Also maybe a mod list would help spot a conflict? 

[Lulu Ashfield]

On 5/8/2018 at 5:46 PM, Corsayr said:

is your HDT otherwise working? As in when you do not have this outfit installed do you have HDT?

 

Trying to use an HDT article of clothing without that working correctly can cause crashing. 

 

Just asking cuz it hasn't been brought up yet. 

 

Also maybe a mod list would help spot a conflict? 

Sorry for the late reply ((I don't get notified when some update goes on on this thread for some reason....forgot to follow XD ))

Anyways, my hdt is working fine (The usual bugs like women 'sometimes' disappearing coz their boobs got stuck in the air or something XD XD )

And I DID try to change the load order and WENT EVEN FURTHER by just putting the necessary mods/plugins (Skyui, UUNP Body, UUNP bodyslide, XPMSE skeleton, Alternate start for testing purposes, hdt, hdt high heels and finally a good skin texture for aethetics ), but still....nada nada nada

Tried loading it LAST but still same result

So I gave up  

I will try one last thing (Loading the armor WITHOUT bodysliding it) and see how it goes

After that, Maybe I will just forget about, unistall it and put some other skimpy mod instead

BUT thanks for all the help. CHEERS  

[HelsingUltimate]

Hey folks, same problem here. I may be able to clarify exactly what the issue is, though I don't have the know-how to solve it. 

 

In my search I found this reddit poster who had the very same issue a year ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/6noans/how_to_report_bugs_to_wtfuuns_uunp_conversions/

It went unanswered sadly. But the weird floating duplicate cuirass bug that was shown in this post is another symptom I experienced, usually after a crash caused by the mesh. So in addition to the immediate ctd I would sometimes be able to equip the cuirass but it would eventually crash and this bug would be the result upon reloading the save, if I even could reload it. 

 

The issue is caused specifically by the UUNP version of the Cuirass mesh. Lulu, as you may have already discovered, the issue only occurs when using the uunp mesh and you can use the CBBE mesh without issue, though it won't look how we want it to. We can't be using that cbbe mesh by any means so the problem remains.

 

In MO I have the original mod and right beneath it the UUNP conversion to overwrite the necessary files, when I hide the cuirass .nif files in the UUNP conversion it works fine, when I unhide, PROBLEMS. I've tried both the bodyslided and the unbodyslided version of the cbbe mesh without any errors or ctd. Obviously the UUNP conversion from Diablo/WTFuun is a bodyslide mod so it only comes with the shape data for us to use in bodyslide. I have to imagine that the issue lies in that shape data somewhere.

 

I've tried taking the CBBE mesh and converting it myself in Outfit Studio but there seems to be a problem involving the bones, with all that HDT there must be another step to converting it that I'm unaware of. It seems the standard way of outfit studio conversion doesn't work with outfits involving HDT enabled cloth. Obviously I'm overlooking something. People more proficient with nifskope might be able to figure it out.

 

It didn't matter which update to Diablo's conversion I tried I always had problems with that mesh, though it did seem to become worse after I installed the retouched version and the UUNP patch. Found here: http://regenbot.tistory.com/78      And here I was hopeful that it would fix everything! Grr.

 

I'm sure that whatever the issue with this UUNP conversion is, this one single piece of gear, it's something very easy to fix, I just can't put my finger on what that fix would be personally. 

 

I'm right there with ya Lulu, I love this armor set, I used it in BDO back in the day and my current vampire character NEEEDS this. ;p

 

If there is a kind soul out there that has a little better understanding of .nif files and conversions please take a look at this for us. I'm sure it's something super simple to solve and Diablo just hasn't had the time to look at it.

 

Original mod by Dint: https://gamer-mods.ru/load/tes_v_skyrim/bronja_dlja_cbbe_unp_7b_adec/kostjum_dark_knight/11-1-0-5334

 

UUNP conversions by Diablo/WTFuun: 1.2 - https://wtfuuun.tumblr.com/post/162356903863/wtfuun-bdo-dark-knight-uunp-hdt-v121-main-mod

 

1.3 - https://wtfuuun.tumblr.com/post/162686540948/bdo-sinterrna-cuirass-uunp-full-hdt-require-the

 

1.4 - https://wtfuuun.tumblr.com/post/163050047953/bdo-dark-knight-v14-uunp-hdt-require-the-main-mod

 

The conversion was done in installments. 1.2 is the part of the mod containing the Dark Knight armor in question. The .nif files are titled "Cuirass" without any following designations like A, B, 2, 3 etc.

 

Sorry about this overly busy post and all the links. Hopefully somebody can figure this out. Please have at it! 

[Fifoo]

Yatol is a very competent modder in many fields, I think he/she will quickly find what is wrong. Maybe by asking him/her gently to take a look can he/she give you some of his time to help you?

There must be some either incorrect or missing data in the configuration of the model in question that does not allow a good conversion into BodySlide - Outfit Studio. This may be due to many different parameters, but which one is involved?
Sorry about the rough wording that I was able to give you and for the minimal help, I'm just a beginner in this area.

[Lulu Ashfield]

10 hours ago, HelsingUltimate said:

Hey folks, same problem here. I may be able to clarify exactly what the issue is, though I don't have the know-how to solve it. 

 

In my search I found this reddit poster who had the very same issue a year ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/6noans/how_to_report_bugs_to_wtfuuns_uunp_conversions/

It went unanswered sadly. But the weird floating duplicate cuirass bug that was shown in this post is another symptom I experienced, usually after a crash caused by the mesh. So in addition to the immediate ctd I would sometimes be able to equip the cuirass but it would eventually crash and this bug would be the result upon reloading the save, if I even could reload it. 

 

The issue is caused specifically by the UUNP version of the Cuirass mesh. Lulu, as you may have already discovered, the issue only occurs when using the uunp mesh and you can use the CBBE mesh without issue, though it won't look how we want it to. We can't be using that cbbe mesh by any means so the problem remains.

 

In MO I have the original mod and right beneath it the UUNP conversion to overwrite the necessary files, when I hide the cuirass .nif files in the UUNP conversion it works fine, when I unhide, PROBLEMS. I've tried both the bodyslided and the unbodyslided version of the cbbe mesh without any errors or ctd. Obviously the UUNP conversion from Diablo/WTFuun is a bodyslide mod so it only comes with the shape data for us to use in bodyslide. I have to imagine that the issue lies in that shape data somewhere.

 

I've tried taking the CBBE mesh and converting it myself in Outfit Studio but there seems to be a problem involving the bones, with all that HDT there must be another step to converting it that I'm unaware of. It seems the standard way of outfit studio conversion doesn't work with outfits involving HDT enabled cloth. Obviously I'm overlooking something. People more proficient with nifskope might be able to figure it out.

 

It didn't matter which update to Diablo's conversion I tried I always had problems with that mesh, though it did seem to become worse after I installed the retouched version and the UUNP patch. Found here: http://regenbot.tistory.com/78      And here I was hopeful that it would fix everything! Grr.

 

I'm sure that whatever the issue with this UUNP conversion is, this one single piece of gear, it's something very easy to fix, I just can't put my finger on what that fix would be personally. 

 

I'm right there with ya Lulu, I love this armor set, I used it in BDO back in the day and my current vampire character NEEEDS this. ;p

 

If there is a kind soul out there that has a little better understanding of .nif files and conversions please take a look at this for us. I'm sure it's something super simple to solve and Diablo just hasn't had the time to look at it.

 

Original mod by Dint: https://gamer-mods.ru/load/tes_v_skyrim/bronja_dlja_cbbe_unp_7b_adec/kostjum_dark_knight/11-1-0-5334

 

UUNP conversions by Diablo/WTFuun: 1.2 - https://wtfuuun.tumblr.com/post/162356903863/wtfuun-bdo-dark-knight-uunp-hdt-v121-main-mod

 

1.3 - https://wtfuuun.tumblr.com/post/162686540948/bdo-sinterrna-cuirass-uunp-full-hdt-require-the

 

1.4 - https://wtfuuun.tumblr.com/post/163050047953/bdo-dark-knight-v14-uunp-hdt-require-the-main-mod

 

The conversion was done in installments. 1.2 is the part of the mod containing the Dark Knight armor in question. The .nif files are titled "Cuirass" without any following designations like A, B, 2, 3 etc.

 

Sorry about this overly busy post and all the links. Hopefully somebody can figure this out. Please have at it! 

That's so awesome it really put me to tears of joy  (Even though the problem is still there XD )
But at least I know where the problem is coming from, and I did confirm when I removed the UUNP files and try the armor without any thing UUNP
But nevertheless, the I TRULY appreciate your help Helsing ^_^. Arigatoooo Gozaimasuuuu ^u^

 

 

10 hours ago, Fifoo said:

Yatol is a very competent modder in many fields, I think he/she will quickly find what is wrong. Maybe by asking him/her gently to take a look can he/she give you some of his time to help you?

There must be some either incorrect or missing data in the configuration of the model in question that does not allow a good conversion into BodySlide - Outfit Studio. This may be due to many different parameters, but which one is involved?
Sorry about the rough wording that I was able to give you and for the minimal help, I'm just a beginner in this area.

Great, but who's Yatol? Is he/she on LL?
I will look for him/her, and maybe even try sending to WTFUN/Diablo (If I could XD)

But thanks for the hint Fifoo  (Somehow, your Name reminds me of Fifa XD Which is a game I am NOT very fond of XD NO OFFENSE )



OVERALL
THANK YOU ALL  

[Corsayr]

OK, now that I have a better understanding of the problem and after doing a little extra research I have officially decided I can't fix it... 

 

Fortunately, I don't have to

 

Someone else made a retextured version (better texture) and their version doesn't come with the bug. 

 

http://regenbot.tistory.com/78

 

There are 3 DLs 

 

Load the top one and install, then load the 3rd one and overwrite. You do not need the middle one unless you want to look at PSD files showing the work on how they did the retexturing and stuff. (mostly for graphics geeks who love that kind of stuff)

 

 

[Fifoo]

16 hours ago, Lulu Ashfield said:

Great, but who's Yatol? Is he/she on LL?
I will look for him/her, and maybe even try sending to WTFUN/Diablo (If I could XD)

But thanks for the hint Fifoo  (Somehow, your Name reminds me of Fifa XD Which is a game I am NOT very fond of XD NO OFFENSE )

Sorry have forgotten to precise you that yatol is a LoversLab Member.

 

None offense taken it made me rather laugh. But now that you say it, my nickname has nothing to do with Fifa as I'm not a big fan of soccer in general. 

[HelsingUltimate]

8 hours ago, Corsayr said:

OK, now that I have a better understanding of the problem and after doing a little extra research I have officially decided I can't fix it... 

 

Fortunately, I don't have to

 

Someone else made a retextured version (better texture) and their version doesn't come with the bug. 

 

http://regenbot.tistory.com/78

 

There are 3 DLs 

 

Load the top one and install, then load the 3rd one and overwrite. You do not need the middle one unless you want to look at PSD files showing the work on how they did the retexturing and stuff. (mostly for graphics geeks who love that kind of stuff)

 

 

I did go about testing this version of the files quite thoroughly and it is more stable but not free of issues. You may be able to equip the cuirass but if your game involves a lot of armor swapping or script-based un-equipping and re-equipping you are probably going to crash. 

 

Also I consistently upon reloading a save where my character had the cuirass equipped experienced the phantom floating mesh glitch same as before. 

 

It's worth noting that I use the Ningheim race mod and my character is as well a vampire. I routinely console out of vampirism in order to use racemenu without issues and then I console back. The cuirass seems to either crash my game when race-swapping or if it does work it actually removes that weird double cuirass glitch... at least until I reload next.

 

I've tried every version of the .esp that comes with the mods through every update just to see if it was something related to a specific plugin. They each had more or less the same result. I've tried making a new non-vampire character both with the custom race and normal nord race and reasonably consistently had crashing upon equipping that UNHOLY cuirass. GAH.

 

These are just the things that I observed in my experiments in an attempt to deduce something useful and save others time and infuriation. That said, I wasn't able to point my finger at anything specific. I've just decided to roll with another armor set from same mod for now as a consolation until some god-like modder comes along to perform great miracles on this problem armor for us. Seriously to see this resolved I would again sacrifice myself to Molag Bal... or whoever fixes this. >;)

 

Thanks to everyone who has put time and effort into this problem so far. May we one day see this solved!

 

[yatol]

On 04/05/2018 at 12:22 PM, Lulu Ashfield said:

I am having a CTD whenever I put on a 'certain' piece of equipment

 

the skirt move?

if it move it's not with bone pelivs or leftthight

and if whatever bones it is isn't in whatever skeleton you use

that's a ctd

 

like equipping a tbbp armor without a skeleton that have the tbbp bones

[Corsayr]

2 hours ago, yatol said:

the skirt move?

if it move it's not with bone pelivs or leftthight

and if whatever bones it is isn't in whatever skeleton you use

that's a ctd

 

like equipping a tbbp armor without a skeleton that have the tbbp bones

The skirt does move, it is weighted to other parts of the skirt (at least that is what it looked like to me) 

 

I tried removing the skirt part, and it still crashed though. BUT there are also dangly jewels on the boobies that are weighted to the garment and not to the bones. 

[Corsayr]

Added some screenies

 

Spoiler

 

 

[RW311]

All of the skirt and hanging jewelry is linked to xml, I can only look at nif of bodyslide project because I don't have the mod only the project files.  I would start with comparing nif of converted mesh vs the one you said worked in game and make sure bone names were not changed by bodyslide.

[HelsingUltimate]

3 hours ago, RW311 said:

All of the skirt and hanging jewelry is linked to xml, I can only look at nif of bodyslide project because I don't have the mod only the project files.  I would start with comparing nif of converted mesh vs the one you said worked in game and make sure bone names were not changed by bodyslide.

You may be on to something here.

 

Just quickly judging by the weight pains from each bone in the cbbe vs the uunp versions of this mesh, they each have the same names for each bone but in the uunp version the actual pains seem to have been rearranged out of order somehow. Not even with the skirt elements but just the body of the mesh. For instance the R Breast seems to highlight a part of the torso of the mesh. There is a R Butt label that highlights the R breast, etc. And for some reason the skirt weights don't show up for me in either version of the project but maybe they aren't supposed to.

 

I'm not proficient enough with these programs to actually correct the weird mislabeling issue here but it is an observation. Maybe it will point one of you guys in the right direction.

[Lulu Ashfield]

On 5/16/2018 at 12:35 AM, HelsingUltimate said:

I did go about testing this version of the files quite thoroughly and it is more stable but not free of issues. You may be able to equip the cuirass but if your game involves a lot of armor swapping or script-based un-equipping and re-equipping you are probably going to crash. 

 

Also I consistently upon reloading a save where my character had the cuirass equipped experienced the phantom floating mesh glitch same as before. 

 

It's worth noting that I use the Ningheim race mod and my character is as well a vampire. I routinely console out of vampirism in order to use racemenu without issues and then I console back. The cuirass seems to either crash my game when race-swapping or if it does work it actually removes that weird double cuirass glitch... at least until I reload next.

 

I've tried every version of the .esp that comes with the mods through every update just to see if it was something related to a specific plugin. They each had more or less the same result. I've tried making a new non-vampire character both with the custom race and normal nord race and reasonably consistently had crashing upon equipping that UNHOLY cuirass. GAH.

 

These are just the things that I observed in my experiments in an attempt to deduce something useful and save others time and infuriation. That said, I wasn't able to point my finger at anything specific. I've just decided to roll with another armor set from same mod for now as a consolation until some god-like modder comes along to perform great miracles on this problem armor for us. Seriously to see this resolved I would again sacrifice myself to Molag Bal... or whoever fixes this. >;)

 

Thanks to everyone who has put time and effort into this problem so far. May we one day see this solved!

 

I totally agree

 

 

On 5/16/2018 at 1:59 AM, yatol said:

the skirt move?

if it move it's not with bone pelivs or leftthight

and if whatever bones it is isn't in whatever skeleton you use

that's a ctd

 

like equipping a tbbp armor without a skeleton that have the tbbp bones

Yes, the skirt does move

But if I understood you correctly, are you saying that this cursed cuirass is made for tbbp and is conflicting with the skeleton?
I use XPMSE with the hdt option, but it works fine for other tbbp armors I have, no CTD from those

 

On 5/16/2018 at 12:05 AM, Fifoo said:

Sorry have forgotten to precise you that yatol is a LoversLab Member.

 

None offense taken it made me rather laugh. But now that you say it, my nickname has nothing to do with Fifa as I'm not a big fan of soccer in general. 

I HATE SOCCER and Fifa, but I do like ur name however <3
 

Well, at least I am glad that some people are looking into it. I can barely understand the basic basics of the model/bones/skeleton/mesh/hdt mumbo jumbo
I will be cheering from the sidelines

XD