SE Compatibility Tracking (Jul 30)

[WandererZero]

36 minutes ago, Ecohex said:

Any ideas/suggestions/tips/walkthroughs I could use to make sure the conversion works?

Uh, I am currently using this. It's just an esp and a BSA. Grab Cathedral Asset Optimizer from Nexus, read how to use it (it's fairly simple and straightforward) and then run SLA Monitor through it. It really just needs the BSA converted.

 

All told, should take you less than 5 minutes.

[janbui]

On 10/13/2019 at 5:31 PM, Duncan Idaho said:

Newish mod, Sexlab Solutions Revisted is SSE compat although it has some CK hoops to jump through which rules it out for me since I haven't been able to open CK in months. Anyway, might be of interest to some.

 

 

Hey if your having any problems with converting to SE, I've updated the modpage to show a (perhaps) solution to your problem, if it doesn't have to do with masterfiles and such you can PM me about any of these problems, I might just be late to reply

[fore]

On 10/15/2019 at 6:28 AM, Shoneleven said:

Skyrim animation count is no longer a issue. With this Skse Plugin You can use more then 26000 animation with Skyrim SE without ctd. I'm using 50000 and didn't crash. Found it in Korean sites. where someone modified oldrim version of same mod. Its should provide 2x original animation limit if your system support it.

Animation Loading Fix.zip 71.37 kB · 82 downloads

I DIDNT CRASH WITH THIS MANY ANIMATION

 

On 10/15/2019 at 6:29 AM, Shoneleven said:

Where do you use 50,000 animation? You only show 20910, and for those you you don't show the mods that you actually use. Poser mods from some Korean or other sites? What is still missing is a CREDIBLE report that someone has installed more than 26000 animation, and has TESTED that they all work. 

 

What is specifically suspicious on your 20910 animation result are those 50.7% of possible Optimization. This can only be "achieved" with poser mods. They take up a lot of animation space when they are created with newer versions of FNIS. And they can fool the FNIS calculation when created with older versions of the FNIS Modders tool, believing that they use more space than they actually do (and therefore reporting this 162.7% CTD likelihood).

 

Well known poser mod authors like Halo know of that, and have taken measures. But I know that there are still poser mods lurking around that have been created with old FNIS.

[WandererZero]

3 hours ago, fore said:

Where do you use 50,000 animation? You only show 20910, and for those you you don't show the mods that you actually use. Poser mods from some Korean or other sites? What is still missing is a CREDIBLE report that someone has installed more than 26000 animation, and has TESTED that they all work. 

OMFG. Thanks @fore

 

I was actually going to install and test this in my next playthrough...because I was indeed skeptical about the results posted here; none of them deliver any proof to the point of: I can run all the anims I want and never crash!

 

My test model was going to be every anim pack on the conversion tracker + all of DD. If this is some kind of magic bullet (which I doubt, because if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is) using DD and all known SL anims would be the way to test it. DD by itself only ever seems stable from an animation standpoint ... if only DD and an animation pack or 2 is installed. Even then, it's a crapshoot.

 

I may still do such a test setup...but nothing posted here thus far shows any proof that this dll is a fix it all solution. If this came from a "korean site" I'd sure love a direct link, so the description can be translated. I'd like to know how this DLL purports to depart from the original to accomplish the impossible.

 

 

 

[fore]

5 hours ago, WandererZero said:

I may still do such a test setup...but nothing posted here thus far shows any proof that this dll is a fix it all solution. If this came from a "korean site" I'd sure love a direct link, so the description can be translated. I'd like to know how this DLL purports to depart from the original to accomplish the impossible.

This is probably nothing else but a port (or steal) for the Animation Loading Fix for LE. And the author (Felisky384) says the following at Nexus:
 

Quote

 

There is a limit to the number of animations that can be loaded, and I think that can not be avoided using this mod. However, this mod has certain effects to avoid the CTD.

.......

......

I have already ported the v1.0.0 feature, but I have not uploaded it yet. I don't know if SSE has problems with animations. So I don't know if it is necessary

 

That's exactly my believe. Everything else seems nothing but hillarious.

 

But testing (REAL testing) has never hurt.

[WandererZero]

45 minutes ago, fore said:

This is probably nothing else but a port (or steal) for the Animation Loading Fix for LE. And the author (Felisky384) says the following at Nexus

Yeah, Dadburry on Discord tipped me off to the fact that it was a version of ALF for LE. Felisky seems pretty clued, and so...again, it just added to my skepticism.

 

47 minutes ago, fore said:

But testing (REAL testing) has never hurt.

I'll set up a testing scenario when I hit the next playthrough. Maybe next week sometime.

 

I'll tank things up with every SLAL anim pack off the conversion tracker, and add DD to it. See if I can't get over the 27,000 mark at least. I've come close to that cap before, and it was never ever stable...if this dll could do anything along those lines, I think i'd know pretty quickly. I have a pretty decent rig, but the quality of my rig is not going to enhance or create any miracles.

 

 

[Shoneleven]

one tester reached limitness set by fnis , https://i.imgur.com/l4TLOwz.png

this limit was set by fnis application.

i am using 50000 poses but never ctd with this dll. i think this dll will helpfull for pose usersmore then animation (chanime) users.

[pburnt]

If it sounds too good to be true...

[notathief]

There is an open pull request on Engine Fixes that claims the same (doubling animations): https://github.com/aers/EngineFixesSkyrim64/pull/8

Maybe someone here can figure out how to build that and confirm?

[WandererZero]

On 10/19/2019 at 11:00 PM, Shoneleven said:

one tester reached limitness set by fnis , https://i.imgur.com/l4TLOwz.png

This image appears to show...nothing of the sort?

 

On 10/19/2019 at 11:00 PM, Shoneleven said:

this limit was set by fnis application.

No, not really though.

 

On 10/19/2019 at 11:00 PM, Shoneleven said:

i am using 50000 poses but never ctd with this dll. i think this dll will helpfull for pose usersmore then animation (chanime) users.

 

On 10/16/2019 at 8:43 AM, abcd99 said:

This is the real deal. Just tried it and it works. I never reached 13K anims before and I just did. Might as well install all the animations now. Thanks a lot!

People seriously need to not make broad generalizations about FNIS, limits, animations, poses without actually you know...doing some reading. This is a very foolish statement. @fore has kindly written all of this up, and has expounded upon it many times. I've done some initial testing of this dll, and we're going to go over things here so people do not get the wrong idea, or impression. Because as pointed out above:

 

On 10/19/2019 at 11:59 PM, pburnt said:

If it sounds too good to be true...

 

I apologize now, this post might be a bit long, but I think people could use some schooling here...and I hope fore will come in and clean up if I've made any errors.

 

1. Limits.

 

Let's talk about limits with animations.

 

 

When people talk about the limits, they talk about that magic number they see in the FNIS output: max. 26162. You're reading an output, without really understanding the meaning. Well, fore has already told us all, there's no real maximum animation number, in fact, he himself has loaded far more than 26K:

 

 

It's never been about ZOMG, THE TOP NUMBER IS 26000! It's always been about behaviors:

 

 

It's not that you cannot run more than 26,000 anims, it's that you really cannot define them past a certain limit. This is why when you come into this topic, post a dll and say stuff like:

On 10/14/2019 at 11:28 PM, Shoneleven said:

Skyrim animation count is no longer a issue. With this Skse Plugin You can use more then 26000 animation with Skyrim SE without ctd. I'm using 50000 and didn't crash. Found it in Korean sites. where someone modified oldrim version of same mod. Its should provide 2x original animation limit if your system support it.

You wind up looking foolish, and you really don't know what you're talking about....and making broad sweeping statements like this is really just misinforming people. Accuracy, especially in regard to animations is important, but it's especially important here on LL.  What's more, as fore points out...even that upper band of 26K can be reduced, basic and pose anims don't really count against the limit....and the hard limit is not necessarily one that Skyrim itself imposes...but is generated by a number of factors that feed into each other.

 

That's why you get the following output when you run FNIS:

 

 

These are metrics of all the values that feed into each other within that animation ecosystem. Based on what fore knows, he has it all scored to tell you if you're dancing on the line. Again, all of these values are explained on his FNIS article. I suggest you read it if you really want to understand more. But for now, we'll leave it at that.

 

So, here we are. There's no magical DLL that is going to solve the behavior or animation limit problem. The engine is what it is, we're stuck with it...and the best we can do is mitigate some of the issues with tricks and sleight of hand.

 

So, now...what about this DLL? Well, it appears to be hacked binary of Felisky's Animation Loading Fix. The dll has been modified to work with SSE and the latest SKSE, I think. I say "I think", because the source of this has been stated as "some Korean site" so we really aren't sure what's been done, or how. But we'll take it at face value as the SSE version of ALF LE.

 

The DLL is here, for anyone wanting to test it.

 

...and let's read what Felisky says about ALF:

 

 

Okay, that's pretty general. But the gist seems to be that he is using an alternate method for loading animations, and he has found this method to be somewhat more safe, and less crash prone. It has certain effects that avoid CTD's presumably under certain circumstances. However, even Felisky says, in the description right there...read it....CTD will occur if you try to load too many animations.

 

Now, go back and...

 

Read. It. Again.

 

Now go back, one more time....and...

 

Read it again!

Tattoo it to your retinas & please stop believing in magic. Please. People will be a lot happier. There are limits. The animation system has a lot of moving parts, and they all feed into each other. Wishing here will not make it so.

 

Felisky even expands on this in a sticky under posts:

 

 

But that does not mean the dll is not useful! I have found that what happens is, you get some stability, and the trade off is you have somewhat longer save file loading times....and I think that it happens only on the first load once each time you launch the game. (This is entirely anecdotal, I have nothing to prove this, other than my own experience here) Essentially, in simple terms: it seems to mitigate the CTD chances, and thus...a high CTD value from a FNIS run is not a death sentence, so to speak. You may be able to run fine, and fairly stable.

 

But, I did load the DLL, and ramped up anims, I never came close to max, but I did hit 99% CTD pretty easily:

 

 14901 animations for 65 mods successfully included (character)
 b:613 s:2574 so:30 fu:276 fuo:15 ch:0 +:11140 pa:3 km:1 ofa:48 aa:197 aaclip:1702 !md:2427 av:458 av+:372 s+:10427
 patch:0 Fmods:60 Emods:5 SAfiles:56 selectors:708 magmt:1 magcastmt:1
ChAnims: 14901  CTD:99.4%  pOpt:23.6%  max: 14990  LC: 26007 (max. 26162)

 

(I also am also running FNIS XXL, in case it wasn't already obvious.)

 

FNIS threw an error and warned me. I loaded up, and re-registered all my animations:

Now, a couple things here: Sexlab has a limit to the number of animations you can register with it. There is a modified version which increases the cap to 750. I am running that modified version. But even if you went ahead and started going wild...keep in mind that while you may not hit the magical 26K number in FNIS, you may actually hit the 750 mark in Sexlab.

I came awfully close: [10/21/2019 - 07:19:37AM] SEXLAB - Resizing animation registry slots: 704 -> 736

 

I'm going to do some additional testing, with DD and some more anim packs. But for now, I hope this helps explain why you really shouldn't be making broad and silly statements like "the animation cap is no longer an issue"...until Fore or someone who you know is an *expert* says so, the animation and behavior cap will always be an issue.

 

So, in closing....yes, the caps are still there. What they are for you will always depend on what you have loaded, the ratio of poses to anims, and the quality of those and how well they're optimized. Even if there were 30,000 viable animations....no dll is going to solve that capacity issue, and even if it did...sexlab is not going to register them all anyway. That said, I intend to do more testing with this dll. But it's not a magic bullet, and it's not going to erase limits in the engine itself. The only people who could change, or improve limitations in the engine are the people with the source code to the engine: Bethesda. Again repeat after me: there is no dll that is going to solve for X, where X is the limitations of the animation system in this version of the creation engine.

 

@tasairis maybe you could pin this to the main tracker under animations as a primer of sorts for people new to FNIS and animation, so people don't get carried away.

 

[WandererZero]

1 hour ago, notathief said:

There is an open pull request on Engine Fixes that claims the same (doubling animations)

Or you know, ask aers on Nexus if he plans to push a fix and release it?

 

That pull is from July, and he recently updated SSEF on the 12th of this month. I mean, there may be other issues at play there? Difficult to say. I'd ask aers though, rather than set up a build and compile environment to build a dll with a one line code change that may or may not work depending on whatever unknown factors we may not be aware of? 

 

Seems like asking aers is a low hanging fruit solution.

 

[WandererZero]

37 minutes ago, abcd99 said:

This ALF may not be extending the number of animations, but at least it enabled me to go beyond 12,100 or so anims with no CTD. I think it is just fair to call it as "SSE port of ALF". I never found anything like that for SSE.

If you're not crashing with 12K anims, that's good. Whether or not, or how much this dll is responsible for that is the open question. It does seem to mitigate animation related crashes...at least in cases where the pOp and CTD percentages are high.

 

The trouble is, we have little to no information as to how it is doing so; and in modding...half or poorly assembled information can wind up being harmful in the long term. Especially to new folks. It's why we can't be throwing out statements like the ones in previous comments.

[JimKhan]

I haven't played in a while now and I'm surprised Bethesda hasn't updated the game yet. Maybe they're busy messing up something else.

[FauxFurry]

1 hour ago, JimKhan said:

I haven't played in a while now and I'm surprised Bethesda hasn't updated the game yet. Maybe they're busy messing up something else.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/94228-sse-conversion-tracking-oct-13-3959/?do=findComment&comment=2778531

[JimKhan]

Quick question: Animation packs that include creature animations also list More Nasty Critters as a requirement. However, if I were to download one of these packs to make use of human animations only with no creatures, would there be a problem if I don't have MNC installed? Or is it a hard requirement?

[MadMansGun]

1 hour ago, JimKhan said:

Quick question: Animation packs that include creature animations also list More Nasty Critters as a requirement. However, if I were to download one of these packs to make use of human animations only with no creatures, would there be a problem if I don't have MNC installed? Or is it a hard requirement?

you should be fine without it.

[JimKhan]

6 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

you should be fine without it.

Thank you.

[Kristus Kringle]

SOS addon - Pubic hair for females works on SE (I ran it through CAO) and it looks great, except it doesn't work with cbbe body morphs.  Discussion thread here. It has open permissions to modify if anyone has an idea on how to make it work with morphs.

[Guest]

Overknee Brisa and Grania my port

 

 

[fore]

On 10/15/2019 at 6:28 AM, Shoneleven said:

Skyrim animation count is no longer a issue. With this Skse Plugin You can use more then 26000 animation with Skyrim SE without ctd. I'm using 50000 and didn't crash. Found it in Korean sites. where someone modified oldrim version of same mod. Its should provide 2x original animation limit if your system support it.

Animation Loading Fix.zip 71.37 kB · 139 downloads

I DIDNT CRASH WITH THIS MANY ANIMATION

 

On 10/15/2019 at 6:29 AM, Shoneleven said:

 

On 10/20/2019 at 6:00 AM, Shoneleven said:

one tester reached limitness set by fnis , https://i.imgur.com/l4TLOwz.png

this limit was set by fnis application.

i am using 50000 poses but never ctd with this dll. i think this dll will helpfull for pose usersmore then animation (chanime) users.

 

 

 

Since the creator of this hoax doesn't want to clarify himself:

 

There is NO WAY that this tool will allow to load more than 26200 character animations (forget 50k!!!)

 

This fine user does not only miss the difference between character animations and Load Count (LC), after worm pulling in several pms I also found that he has no clue what FNIS File Redirection is all about. That's why he never loaded those 20910 animations he is showing. 

 

And now? No explanation for the community, no thank you (or excuse) for me.

 

 

What's the matter Colonel Shoneleven? CHICKEN???

 

 

[WandererZero]

1 hour ago, fore said:

This fine user does not only miss the difference between character animations and Load Count (LC), after worm pulling in several pms I also found that he has no clue what FNIS File Redirection is all about. That's why he never loaded those 20910 animations he is showing.

Yeah. I don't think it's possible to define behaviors for that many anims either way. The ecosystem of animations/behaviors/etc resulting in a hard limit is due to the symbiosis of elements feeding each other in a really badly designed engine (Creation). No DLL is going to kill that. No DLL is a magic bullet.

 

I've been running this DLL, and while it does seem to use a different animation loading method, which appears to mitigate (but not eliminate) crashing related to animations...it is not, or anywhere close to " Skyrim animation count is no longer a issue."... You (and any other users reading this!) should note the conditional phrasing I am using. If this is a hacked up ALF...then the rule is: your mileage may vary. Or more simply: this might help, it might not...and nobody is damned sure one way or the other.

 

But, you're definitely right here: this DLL does nothing to eliminate limits which are imposed by the nature of the engine itself.

 

[Kain82]

11 hours ago, Kokan said:

Overknee Brisa and Grania my port

 

 

Hot!  Mind sharing them via pm?

[JimKhan]

Do you people prefer to install these mods by extracting them into Skyrim's data folder? I always manually added them into NMM so that I can remove them with ease, I'm not knowledgeable enough to sift through all those folders and delete everything by hand.

[Kain82]

2 hours ago, JimKhan said:

Do you people prefer to install these mods by extracting them into Skyrim's data folder? I always manually added them into NMM so that I can remove them with ease, I'm not knowledgeable enough to sift through all those folders and delete everything by hand.

I come from the old Morrowind days so I used to install everything unless they were a fomod manually.  But now I use Vortex and installed everything using that.  It's great no going in manually and deleting files.  Files that the mod may had replaced vanilla files with.

[Shoneleven]

Fores is right, it will not increase animation count limit. but it may help to use more simple pose mods(ls count is more than 27000). i thanks fores for wasting his time in this useless mess, i hope i am grown into different creature then chicken after posting this. i was just busy thats why i couldnt post this here early.