Easy Modding Tips and Resources Discussion

[Guest]

The following was posted to Reddit and the Nexus as well. For this reason, if you notice any formatting errors (especially in the context of imgur links), please don't hesitate to let me know. Sorry if this breaks any rules.

 

TLDR; I've noticed the trend of people wanting to get into modding but not really knowing where to start so I made this in an attempt to show some people that there is mod potential everywhere and you don't need a huge know-how on programs or a ton of money for PS and 3DSMax or even the CK to create something worth using. Therefore a lot of this might be useless knowledge to some and useful knowledge to others (probably more of the former). I also wanted this thread to evolve into a place where people post ideas for mods or links to modder's resources so that others can join in. Some more information at the bottom of the post.

Oh and if you do read this, let me know if I messed up any terminology or if I've accidentally guided a bunch of people to really messing up their game lol.

 

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Hey, I just really felt the need to quickly make this post on a whim. I've been itching to tell people lately that modding Skyrim isn't as difficult as it looks and that there is potential EVERYWHERE. I won't be touching on things that require too much knowledge (as I don't even know half the stuff I talk about, tbh) for the sake of simplicity. None of this ZBrush, 3DSMax, scripting stuff. Just small edits that make a big difference. So I'm just gonna run over a few things that I thought might help out some people hoping to get started on "something small" to start themselves off. I'm really hoping this topic starts a bit of a discussion on mod ideas or becomes a place where people share resources or something like that. I think a space like that in time where the Skyrim community is really split up would be valuable. Not sure how formatting'll turn out but wish me luck.

 

Programs To Get Familiar With

I'll go into more detail on each of these in other sections but it's a good idea to get accustomed to using these programs which will happen over time.

 

• NifSkope; Even if you aren't porting meshes too and from Blender or 3DSMax, NifSkope is still an essential tool for working with meshes and textures
• The Creation Kit; self-explanatory, go download it.
• TES5Edit; If the Creation Kit had a lite version, this'd be it. Fantastic for quick small or big edits and if you know how to use the Creation Kit to a certain degree, the learning curve should be a breeze. Also a good idea to have this link bookmarked when using it.
• Photoshop or GIMP

 

Messing With Textures

An easy start. Texture work takes very little prior knowledge to get into and has an incredible effect on how an item looks in-game. All you'll need to get started is an image editing program that allows work with .dds files. The most preferred program would be Photoshop, without a doubt but a lot of people avoid piracy or cost by using GIMP, which is basically the same but a lot less user friendly imo. In order for both GIMP and PS to work with .dds files, you'll need to install their respective dds plugins which you can find on Google somewhere because I'm not doing an install tutorial on that. Another program you can use is paint.NET which is a lot more lightweight and easy to use but lacks a lot more of the versatility of the other two programs. It also supports .dds files out-of-the-box so there's that. I like to use it for quick edits or small colour changes. Once you have your program the only other thing you really need to know is how to export your file with the proper compression which really depends on the file you're editing. AFAIK, you'll want to export diffuse maps with DXT5 compression and generate mipmaps and export normal maps at 8888 ARGB or similar to avoid compression. Again, I'm not an expert and it really depends on the file you're editing.

 

Now for some terminology. Diffuse maps are those sweet textures that you'll pay the most attention to in-game. They're the colours and hold most of the detail. Normal maps are not to be underestimated. They kinda work with detailing meshes through light and shadow. A good example can be seen here on what they can do. There are also specular maps and whatnot but you probably won't mess with those often. UV maps aren't really seen at all. They're just the reason why when you open a texture file it looks all weird. It's the flattened wrap and editing the UV map is where NifSkope comes in really handy - more mesh-related than texture-related.

 

AND NOW BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHANGING TEXTURES!  

Do you know what the Resplendent Armour, Sithis Armour and Grandmaster Ursine Armour mods all have in common? If you guessed cool HDT skirts, you're a beautiful person. 

 

These three armours are a fantastic example of just how much textures can change a mod. Something some people might not know about them is that the HDT skirt they all use? They're all the exact same mesh. Same length, same size for both sexes, everything. It looks like this without all the textures. Not only should this give you a great idea of how manipulative textures can be, but it should also trigger a really simple idea for a mod! How about something as simple as customising the skirt a little by editing the textures? I did this small edit in paint.NET. It's just a small colour change and a few texture replacements and it makes a world of difference. I've painted made the sleeves brown, darkened the stripes on the pants, lengthened the skirt and removed the annoying front flap. And the point here is that anyone can do this! It's super simple. I didn't replace any meshes, everything here was strictly texture work.

 

Another thing most people won't know (and thank-you to mechface2012 on the Nexus for pointing this out to me) but the Resplendent Armour has another texture trick up it's sleeve. The chestplate on the armour uses almost the same UV map as the Ebony male armour from the vanilla game. The only difference being a small section at the back that is both easily covered and easily fixed in NifSkope. With this in mind, it lets you completely change the armour up and make something entirely new! Here's an example of the armour being replaced with aMidianBorn Ebony textures, gold and silver variants, respectively.

 

I believe the best example to show how a texture can completely change a mesh is to turn your attention to all the outfits by Deserter X. There's a table that's shown in almost every mod description of theirs that shows the mesh each outfit is based off of.

 

Don't forget normal maps!

Remember earlier when I said normal maps shouldn't be underestimated? These things are great for changing details you can't with diffuse maps. The most common thing I've seen is how the normals from SG Textures affect the face of a character. If you're using SG Textures and are getting annoyed at all your characters looking the same, try this out. Here I've switched out the normal maps for the ones that come with Real Women of Skyrim. The difference is night and day. I'm not saying you should use this combination but try mix-and-matching from time to time. The only thing I'd recommend is that you don't mix-and-match normal maps with other normal maps or diffuse maps with diffuse maps. This way you'll avoid seams around the neck, wrists and ankles.

 

A lot of you might know about Maxine, the relatively new zombie follower. I've put together this picture to illustrate just what's happening under her skin. You'll notice that her scar on her lip isn't painted on the diffuse map at all. It's just a simple change to the face's normal map that gives the impression of a deep scar/cut on her lip.

 

I realise that I've neglected to mention how these techniques could be used on items other than people or outfits but I feel as though I've given you enough that it might spark some ideas. If not, here's one more thing that might help. This is something cool you can do with hairstyles. Ultimately it depends on the UV map of the hairstyle and I got lucky with this one but it's a good idea. I know a lot of us strive for making our characters as unique as possible. It's a blessing and a curse.

 

Messing With Meshes

Unfortunately, I don't have much experience with this. I don't know blender or 3DSMax (I've yet to try and learn Bodyslide so if this thread takes off, I might update it with some of that), as I've stated earlier and so any mesh edits I've done have been through NifSkope. There are very limited things you can do with meshes in NifSkope but there's enough that I can make a small category on it. Take the following with a grain of salt and keep backups. That should go without saying.

 

First, I'll begin with something I noticed while putting together the Messing With Textures section. If you'll turn your attention back to this image, you'll notice on the two edited versions of the armour, the characters are wearing small shields. This wasn't intentional, it just seems we had kinda the same idea for our characters. Here's another view of the one from my game. It's slightly thinner and longer than mechface2012's version. This shield was made using a fairly old Bucklers mod's meshes. Here's what that one looks like in-game for reference. As you can see, it's come a long way, but the only edits I made to it were done through NifSkope. If you get a mesh like this one and go to the NiTriShapeData, or by right-clicking the mesh in the render window (or even in the Block Details pane), you can go to Transform>Edit. From here you can change the scale/rotation or position of a mesh within a certain range. For my customised buckler, I've changed the X coordinate to -10, Z to 0.5, rotated the mesh 90 degrees, changed the pitch by 8 and scaled it down by 0.7 (All this info can be seen in the Block Details pane from the previous picture, bottom left) . The pitch was changed so that the shield lined up parallel to my character's arm in-game. You can also use Transform>Scale Vertices to play around with the mesh a little which I ended up doing to make my shield noticeably thinner and longer than the original.

 

As you can expect, it's not always as simple as this. Sometimes a mesh won't change until you select Transform>Apply which can end with a really unexpected result so you should always keep backups around. This also get a lot more complicated when bones and weighting are introduced. For now, I'd suggest to stick with small edits. You can also do some fun things with these settings though. Here's a tutorial by Elianora which will probably explain its potential a little better. The keyword here in the title is static. Dynamic objects get a lot more complicated.

 

Another thing you can do with meshes in NifSkope is change texture paths. This is something you'll probably end up doing a lot of if you decide to make a follower or armour or any new object. Texture paths can be found under the NiTriShape/Strip>BSLightingShaderProperty>BSShaderTextureSet (here). A lot of texture information can be found under the BSLightingShaderProperty as well, which is good to keep in mind. I'm not sure of everything that can be done under it but here's a few things. Shader flags can be used to enable the use of cubemaps on meshes. A cubemap is essentially an image the game uses to simulate the mesh reflecting the objects around it. In the case with the ebony buckler, the cubemap is most notably the strange orange tint on the shield. To enable the use of cubemaps, enable Environment_Mapping under Shader Flags 1 and set a cubemap thorugh the BSShaderTextureSet (usually the 5th and 6th slots). You can also change the glossiness/specularity of a mesh through the BSLightingShaderProperty. Often used to make bodies oily or something but it's entirely up to the user. There's a lot more under that property to experiment with so go crazy. You might discover something new.

 

Oh and another property to look out for is the NiAlphaProperty. With it, you can edit the textures to be transparent and it will make certain parts of the mesh invisible in-game. The HDT skirt mesh from the Messing With Textures section is a good example of this in action. You can add this property to a mesh by right-clicking the NiTriShape/Strip and going to Block>Insert>NiA...>NiAlphaProperty. The new property will then have to be linked to the NiTriShape which can be done by selecting the NiTriShape/Strip, going into the Block Details pane and linking the Alpha Property by double-clicking the field and entering the number displayed to the left of the new NiAlphaProperty.

 

Resources:

BSLightingShaderProperty Basics, thanks to kboom

 

Simple Mods With The Creation Kit and TES5Edit

Okay this subject is super broad. The world is your oyster here. When I say simple mod, I mean anything simple. You don't need to be a genius to learn how to use these. I'd recommend following a few tutorials online for learning the Creation Kit first. Try things like making a follower or a house mod. Perhaps a new worldspace? Once work in the Creation Kit becomes less of a mystery to you, TES5Edit should be a breeze. I can't recommend it enough, either. In TES5Edit you can make super quick and easy edits to some mods you already have or make entirely new mods. As I said near the beginning, it's like the lite version of the Creation Kit but way more stable and has a few alternative uses (which I'm yet to make use of). One of my favourite things to do with it is to edit mods that already exist. Take the Grandmaster Ursine Armour from earlier. I'm currently doing a playthrough and I wanted that outfit for end-game use, but the stats of the armour are less than great (which happens with a lot of mods out there). In TES5Edit you can change armour ratings easily by finding the armour (not the armour addon), scrolling to the armour rating and changing it manually. That's it. And the same goes for almost any field you can see in under any FormID. Simple changes, simple mods. Fixing spelling mistakes in mods is a common thing I find myself doing. I'm not going to get into deep detail on it since it's basically the Creation Kit with a different UI but here's a list of things I've done through TES5Edit:

 

• Fixed hundreds of grammatical errors in mods I use frequently
• Alter mod-added conversations that break my game's lore (an example being mods that reference my character escaping Helgen - Do people still choose that start?)
• Change armour ratings, weight ratings, biped slots, names and texture sets of multiple outfits
• Set the unused bed in the Temple of Kynareth to one the Player is allowed to sleep on for roleplaying (in conjuction with Go to Bed)
• Made a summon crow spell by removing unwanted stuff from Shadow Merchant
• Removed the Demonica as a master from DEM Charmer Horns as well as renaming the horns to fit better into my game
• The list goes on...

 

Using Others Mods For Resources (Let me know if you want something linked here)

This next section goes without saying that you should always check the permissions of any assets you use in your mods if you plan to release them to the public.

 

I wanted to make this section to place links to mods that I think have a lot of unused/underestimated potential. I'll probably add more as the thread gets older or if anyone suggests some (please suggest some, that'd be great).

 

• Clockwork: Most people know about this quest mod but I bet a lot of people didn't know that the mod author is allowing modders to use the assets from the mod freely within guideline (as most mod authors do but still, it means a lot from a mod as extravagant as this one).
• Necromancy - Undead FX: This is one that's only recently come to my attention but I was intending finding a way to isolate the disintegration effect so it could be used on the player in a unique situation. I already did some tests a few weeks ago.
• BI Phenotypes: This one had to be here. We all know about it but there's resources (.psd's) that you can download to place the textures over better textures. There's also potential for a SlaveTats/RaceMenu plugin here. Here's an example BI Phenotypes, all injuries on Real Women of Skyrim Textures. There's also the lesser known savage resources which weren't made into a standalone texture. Here's an example of those on the face (the white paint).
• Combination Vanilla Outfit: This one isn't much of a secret either. On one hand you have a lot of potential for mashups and on the other, the mod comes with a UNP Briarheart body.
• Creepy Zombies: Tons of assets to make your character a zombie if you're into that thing. Here's a character I made using some of it's assets about a year-and-a-half ago. NSFW
• SlaveTats: This mod has been out for 3 years, and half the tattoo packs are poorly painted words with disregard for the body's UV map, dammit. Let's get some quality SlaveTats mods up in here. Here's an example of SlaveTats being used with EstrusofSkyrim resources to create tears for screenshots or story-telling. or perhaps something a little more deviant?
• Amputator Framework: Maybe you're playing a Great War veteran who lost an arm in battle? Or you're a pirate on the quest for "booty"? It is a framework after all, its one major purpose is to be used by others.
• Previously mentioned: Resplendent Armour, Sithis Armour and Grandmaster Ursine Armour, Maxine Zombie Follower

 

Last Notes

I'm just putting this here to remind people what this thread is for/about. I hope that people can take some of this information and use it to create their own little experiments. I also hope that some people will be willing to post links to mods that they think have potential for being used in another mod. If you have an idea for a mod, you might want to post that too. If you find anything wrong/out of place or just completely incorrect, don't hesitate to call me out on it. I'll post this on other forums as well. 

Oh, and if you got this far... thanks, that means lot. 

[kboom]

can you explain more how diffuse map look like? Thank you! i really want to add semi transparent at the crotch area but i dont know which file to change

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[Guest]

47 minutes ago, kboom said:

can you explain more how diffuse map look like? Thank you! i really want to add semi transparent at the crotch area but i dont know which file to change

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Well you would have to edit the diffuse map, for sure (the coloured one). Unfortunately, I don't know how to make semi-transparent textures. It's usually either completely opaque or completely transparent. There might be a tutorial somewhere, I'm not sure. You can try changing the alpha from 1 to something below 1 under the BSLightingShaderProperty although that makes the entire mesh see-through. I'm not sure how it'd look in-game either.

[Frankfranky]

Transparency is controlled in the alpha channel of the diffuse map. (The diffuse map is the fancy name for the colour map for the item)

 

So to make your transparency there are a few steps. Pretty easy steps tho.

First you need to get nifskope and open the  _0.nif and _1.nif for your armour.

Click on the picture of the armor, the bit you want to change, and this will highlight the NiTriShape for that bit in the top LH window.

Rclick on the NiTriShape word that got highlighted go to Node>Attach Property> Choose NiAlphaProperty

Remember you have to do this for both the _0.nif and _1.nif.

Save your nifs. You are done in Nifskope.

Now open your texture for the armour, the one that says armour.dds. There will be other ones that have _n, mb _e, _msn ... you don't want any of these.

If you aren't sure which one you want, go back to Nifskope, find your NiTriShape again, open that, find the BSLightingShaderProperty, under that is BSShaderTextureSET. Click on that and in the bottom part of the screen, the first texture listed is always the diffuse map.

Now open the texture in Photoshop, ... or Gimp. When it says load mip maps into separate layers? say no. Let's not complicate the issue.

When it loads, click the channels tab.

Click make new layer. It will make an Alpha Channel for you. This is where you are going to do your transparency.

The way it works is black is completely transparent, White is completely opaque. Shades of gray are somewhere inbetween.

So you need to find the bit of the texture that you want to be transparent, make this black, (or grey), and make everything else white.

Easiest way to do this is make a new layer over the base texture, colour in the bit you want transparent black (or grey), make the rest white, select all in your new layer, copy, go back to the channels tab, select your alpha, select all, paste-in-place.

And you are done. Remember to click the RGB layer in the channels tab (this will make everything on except the alpha channel. This is what you want)

Go back to the layers tab and remove your layer you made the alpha from.

Flatten your image.

Save it as a .dds. You want to make sure your chosen .dds setting supports alpha. If you have the Nividia pluggin you want DXT5. If you have the intell pluggin you want Color+Alpha for the texture type and BC3 for the compression. (this is the same as DXT5)

AAAAAnnnd you are done!

 

Having trouble finding the crotch on the diffuse map? That was the bit you wanted to make semi-transparent right? make a new Diffuse map. Make it stripes of rainbow colors. Save that as a .dds and load it into the game. Now the armor will have rainbow stripes, and you will be able to compare it to your map and work out where the transparent bit should be. (there is of course a more precise way to get a template - called a UV template - that is like a map of the model if it was all flattened out, but that is mb a discussion for another day)

 

[kboom]

Yeah i just got the crotch transparent so the semi, i added NiAlphaProperty and for the texture part i used Paint.net and drew the heart shape used magic wand to select the inside of the heart cut it and pasted it on new layer, then changed new layer's alpha then merged them . I also found this article quite useful though https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1188259-bslightingshaderproperty-basics/

Spoiler

 

[Allannaa]

On 12/24/2017 at 4:00 AM, Frankfranky said:

Transparency is controlled in the alpha channel of the diffuse map. (The diffuse map is the fancy name for the colour map for the item)

 

So to make your transparency there are a few steps. Pretty easy steps tho.

First you need to get nifskope and open the  _0.nif and _1.nif for your armour.

Click on the picture of the armor, the bit you want to change, and this will highlight the NiTriShape for that bit in the top LH window.

Rclick on the NiTriShape word that got highlighted go to Node>Attach Property> Choose NiAlphaProperty

Remember you have to do this for both the _0.nif and _1.nif.

Save your nifs. You are done in Nifskope.

Now open your texture for the armour, the one that says armour.dds. There will be other ones that have _n, mb _e, _msn ... you don't want any of these.

If you aren't sure which one you want, go back to Nifskope, find your NiTriShape again, open that, find the BSLightingShaderProperty, under that is BSShaderTextureSET. Click on that and in the bottom part of the screen, the first texture listed is always the diffuse map.

Now open the texture in Photoshop, ... or Gimp. When it says load mip maps into separate layers? say no. Let's not complicate the issue.

When it loads, click the channels tab.

Click make new layer. It will make an Alpha Channel for you. This is where you are going to do your transparency.

The way it works is black is completely transparent, White is completely opaque. Shades of gray are somewhere inbetween.

So you need to find the bit of the texture that you want to be transparent, make this black, (or grey), and make everything else white.

Easiest way to do this is make a new layer over the base texture, colour in the bit you want transparent black (or grey), make the rest white, select all in your new layer, copy, go back to the channels tab, select your alpha, select all, paste-in-place.

And you are done. Remember to click the RGB layer in the channels tab (this will make everything on except the alpha channel. This is what you want)

Go back to the layers tab and remove your layer you made the alpha from.

Flatten your image.

Save it as a .dds. You want to make sure your chosen .dds setting supports alpha. If you have the Nividia pluggin you want DXT5. If you have the intell pluggin you want Color+Alpha for the texture type and BC3 for the compression. (this is the same as DXT5)

AAAAAnnnd you are done!

 

Having trouble finding the crotch on the diffuse map? That was the bit you wanted to make semi-transparent right? make a new Diffuse map. Make it stripes of rainbow colors. Save that as a .dds and load it into the game. Now the armor will have rainbow stripes, and you will be able to compare it to your map and work out where the transparent bit should be. (there is of course a more precise way to get a template - called a UV template - that is like a map of the model if it was all flattened out, but that is mb a discussion for another day)

 

I tried this on a glass cuirass, following all the steps, and while the armor is now transparent in the right places -- it's REALLY transparent.  You can see through the person wearing the armor.  So isn't it necessary to add a skin instance or something similar, in NifSkope, in order to get the naked leg (or arm or crotch or whatnot) to show, rather than being totally invisible?

[Guest]

16 hours ago, kboom said:

Yeah i just got the crotch transparent so the semi, i added NiAlphaProperty and for the texture part i used Paint.net and drew the heart shape used magic wand to select the inside of the heart cut it and pasted it on new layer, then changed new layer's alpha then merged them . I also found this article quite useful though https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1188259-bslightingshaderproperty-basics/

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This is great, thanks. I'll add it to the post. I'm definitely bookmarking this one lol

[Frankfranky]

On 13/01/2018 at 1:14 AM, Allannaa said:

You can see through the person wearing the armor

Are you sure there is a person under the armor?

 

A lot of the vanilla armor's have parts of the body underneath deleted. If you have only edited the armor, if all you did to that was add a nialpha property and changed the textures, then you haven't made any change to the body whatsoever. If it exists you will be able to see it. Open your armor again in nifskope. Find the nitrishape for the curiass, rclick on it and do block>remove branch. This will delete the armor (so don't save!!!!). Then have a look and see what is underneath.

 

If there is only part of a body, what you can do, is get a new blank body, either made in bodyslide or directly from UNP/CBBE (make sure it is the same shape and size as the armor tho), open this in nifskope, and open the armor in another instance of nifskope. Then find the armor nitrishape, rclick, block>copy Branch, then go to the blank body, rclick the very top -  0 NiNode - and do block>paste branch. Now the armor will be on a complete body.

 

NB 1. This won't work unless the Name of the 0 NiNode in the blank body is the same as the armor you are copying from so go to your armor. click on 0 NiNode then down the bottom window find name, rclick on the value, edit string index, copy the text. Now do the same thing on the blank body, but this time paste the text.

NB 2. You will very likely find that the reason parts of the body are missing is because the body clips in those bits, and it is off to Outfit Studio for you.

 

Good luck.

[Frankfranky]

21 hours ago, Artsick said:

I also found this article quite useful though https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1188259-bslightingshaderproperty-basics/

wow. This is a terrific find. ty

[Allannaa]

12 hours ago, Frankfranky said:

Are you sure there is a person under the armor?

 

A lot of the vanilla armor's have parts of the body underneath deleted. If you have only edited the armor, if all you did to that was add a nialpha property and changed the textures, then you haven't made any change to the body whatsoever. If it exists you will be able to see it. Open your armor again in nifskope. Find the nitrishape for the curiass, rclick on it and do block>remove branch. This will delete the armor (so don't save!!!!). Then have a look and see what is underneath.

 

If there is only part of a body, what you can do, is get a new blank body, either made in bodyslide or directly from UNP/CBBE (make sure it is the same shape and size as the armor tho), open this in nifskope, and open the armor in another instance of nifskope. Then find the armor nitrishape, rclick, block>copy Branch, then go to the blank body, rclick the very top -  0 NiNode - and do block>paste branch. Now the armor will be on a complete body.

 

NB 1. This won't work unless the Name of the 0 NiNode in the blank body is the same as the armor you are copying from so go to your armor. click on 0 NiNode then down the bottom window find name, rclick on the value, edit string index, copy the text. Now do the same thing on the blank body, but this time paste the text.

NB 2. You will very likely find that the reason parts of the body are missing is because the body clips in those bits, and it is off to Outfit Studio for you.

 

Good luck.

There's definitely a person under the armor; I gave it to my follower and he put it on.  But there's nothing under it in NifSkope.

 

To be very specific, I tried to delete the "lap flaps" on the male Glass Cuirass -- which should then show either the upper thighs of the armor, or the crotch bits of the wearer.

 

I tried your experiment; I highlighted the block in question and removed-branch; there's nothing under it at all.

 

This whole thing really annoys me; I love the way glass armor looks, but I've been trying for *years* to make it crotchless without having to simply re-make it entirely.  I've tried things like deleting the triangles in NifSkope; I've tried loading it into a modelling program and cutting away that portion, then re-texturing.... good grief, I think I've tried everything short of .... well I've tried everything!

 

At the risk of sounding like a whiny-pants little girl -- could *you* try it and see if you can get those darned flaps to go away?  And if you succeed, could you post what you did?  I'm sure I'm not the only person who's tried and failed to do this.

 

*Edit, also just now I tried to copy a "male body" into the glass armor; NifSkope failed "with errors"; I tried it the other way, copying the armor to the male body nif; got same message.

 

 

 

[Frankfranky]

10 hours ago, Allannaa said:

without having to simply re-make it entirely

So I took  look. There is no body underneath the armor. At all. It is also weighted to the hands, feet, neck .... this is why you were getting "with errors". So, could *I* completely remake the armor, basically from scratch, fit it to an unspecified male body, given that in it's current form it isn't going to fit any skyrim body I have ever seen without major modifications, reskin and weight paint it, export new nifs and then upload them, plus a quick 20 page post on how to use 3ds max, so that some unknown internet girl can see her character's junk swinging in the wind? No.

 

Go into SOS. Make the armor revealing. Then go back to photoshop. Make the offending flaps semi-transparent. Use an almost white alpha. Pretend he is wearing a sheer kilt.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Allannaa said:

There's definitely a person under the armor; I gave it to my follower and he put it on.  But there's nothing under it in NifSkope.

 

To be very specific, I tried to delete the "lap flaps" on the male Glass Cuirass -- which should then show either the upper thighs of the armor, or the crotch bits of the wearer.

 

I tried your experiment; I highlighted the block in question and removed-branch; there's nothing under it at all.

 

This whole thing really annoys me; I love the way glass armor looks, but I've been trying for *years* to make it crotchless without having to simply re-make it entirely.  I've tried things like deleting the triangles in NifSkope; I've tried loading it into a modelling program and cutting away that portion, then re-texturing.... good grief, I think I've tried everything short of .... well I've tried everything!

 

At the risk of sounding like a whiny-pants little girl -- could *you* try it and see if you can get those darned flaps to go away?  And if you succeed, could you post what you did?  I'm sure I'm not the only person who's tried and failed to do this.

 

*Edit, also just now I tried to copy a "male body" into the glass armor; NifSkope failed "with errors"; I tried it the other way, copying the armor to the male body nif; got same message.

 

 

 

There's no body under the armour as Frankfranky was saying. When an armour occupies the body slot, it removes every part of the original body mesh that has a skin partition assigned to slot 32, the body/torso slot. If the original mesh covers the entirety of the body, the author probably would'nt have placed a body inside the mesh which is why when you remove a certain bit of the armour or make it transparent/translucent, nothing will appear, regardless of your follower having a body or not.

Here's the vanilla hide armour. I've removed the protective parts and left the skin. 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, parts of the body are still there but only the parts of the mesh that would otherwise disappear when the body is equipped. This is why when you equip something for 7B when using a UNP body, it "converts" your body to 7B.

 

Failing to copy something from one NifSkope file to another is usually an error caused by not copying the bones needed for the NiTriShape. I'm going to assume this is because you tried copying a body like SOS over which has something like five penis bones which are used for the erection animations. I'll give making the armour with a body a try later if I remember and tell you how it went.

 

EDIT: lol, someone order a poorly weighted, broken, crotchless glass armour? I wasn't quite sure what you were describing you wanted exactly but i made this thing which is pretty neato. Weighting on the penis is way off though so it's really broken. Like.. really broken. This was fun though lol

 

 

[yatol]

15 hours ago, Allannaa said:

There's definitely a person under the armor

 

no there isn't

if you make those clothes transparent

-male on the right become floating head

-male in background become floating head with arms

-my char become nude, outfit have sbp 49, body is sbp 44

-the 2 unp women become nude, have delete the body inside those nifs, and gave it sbp 49 (you can see the leg clip with clothe, because there's legs now)

 

and there's a glass armor with bodie in it on nexus... the transparent glass armor...

 

 

 

 

[Allannaa]

13 hours ago, Frankfranky said:

So I took  look. There is no body underneath the armor. At all. It is also weighted to the hands, feet, neck .... this is why you were getting "with errors". So, could *I* completely remake the armor, basically from scratch, fit it to an unspecified male body, given that in it's current form it isn't going to fit any skyrim body I have ever seen without major modifications, reskin and weight paint it, export new nifs and then upload them, plus a quick 20 page post on how to use 3ds max, so that some unknown internet girl can see her character's junk swinging in the wind? No.

 

Go into SOS. Make the armor revealing. Then go back to photoshop. Make the offending flaps semi-transparent. Use an almost white alpha. Pretend he is wearing a sheer kilt.

lol oh dear, I wasn't implying I wanted you to make armor for me -- but I do appreciate the "girl" comment; it's been 40 years or more since someone referred to me as a girl.

 

And "no body" under the armor definitely explains why I could never get this to work the way I was trying to do, so thank you for helping me figure that out, too!

 

I did what you suggested as far as making the lap-flaps semi transparent with a nearly white alpha, and that got rid of the flaps.  I didn't want it to be "revealing", I just wanted legs, not lap-flaps.  Your idea works nicely; there's a "ghost" of flap there, but it's not ugly now.  Thank you!

 

Edit -- I guess "crotch bits" does kinda imply I wanted to see the follower's bits swinging in the wind -- lol all I really wanted was the lap-flaps gone, though.

And obviously, just because there's a "character" under the armor doesn't mean the NIF has a body under it.  Duh!  Thank you for making that clear.

[Allannaa]

10 hours ago, Artsick said:

There's no body under the armour as Frankfranky was saying. When an armour occupies the body slot, it removes every part of the original body mesh that has a skin partition assigned to slot 32, the body/torso slot. If the original mesh covers the entirety of the body, the author probably would'nt have placed a body inside the mesh which is why when you remove a certain bit of the armour or make it transparent/translucent, nothing will appear, regardless of your follower having a body or not.

Here's the vanilla hide armour. I've removed the protective parts and left the skin. 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

As you can see, parts of the body are still there but only the parts of the mesh that would otherwise disappear when the body is equipped. This is why when you equip something for 7B when using a UNP body, it "converts" your body to 7B.

 

Failing to copy something from one NifSkope file to another is usually an error caused by not copying the bones needed for the NiTriShape. I'm going to assume this is because you tried copying a body like SOS over which has something like five penis bones which are used for the erection animations. I'll give making the armour with a body a try later if I remember and tell you how it went.

 

EDIT: lol, someone order a poorly weighted, broken, crotchless glass armour? I wasn't quite sure what you were describing you wanted exactly but i made this thing which is pretty neato. Weighting on the penis is way off though so it's really broken. Like.. really broken. This was fun though lol

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 


 

 

That does look kinda neat, actually!

 

As far as copying in NifSkope -- I opened the vanilla glass in one window and the vanilla male in a second window.  I didn't use the skeleton or nif that comes with SoS, because I figure when I do a playthru with SOS, well, I don't give the follower body armor anyway, so there's no need for it then.

 

But yours looks pretty nice in the pics!

[Frankfranky]

So I made this dress, pretty much from scratch. I did start initially with one of Lady Horus's tera meshes (ty Lady Horus for getting me started) but I am not sure if there are still 2 verticies that remain next to eachother from that inital mesh. mb there are. It is UNP HDT. It works in game. The weight painting is pretty good. There is some minor clipping in occasional frames of some animations and poses, but not very much. I made UUNP Bodyslide for it. I started to texture it, but I kinda lost inspiration. I think I want to make something more rogue-ish.

 

So I thought, since we are here talking about easy modding tips and resources, mb some of you would like to have a go giving it some amazing textures. Please don't upload it anywhere else (you Naver guys can have it. I have had so much of your stuff ), please don't put it on Nexus.

 

In game it is Dress One and Dress Two. I know, not very creative. If you look in the textures folder you will find UV Templates for the dress and the ground object box.

 

https://i.imgur.com/8D0u4zO.png

https://i.imgur.com/Ti41Vk3.png

 

 

 

Skank Dress.7z

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Frankfranky said:

So I made this dress, pretty much from scratch. I did start initially with one of Lady Horus's tera meshes (ty Lady Horus for getting me started) but I am not sure if there are still 2 verticies that remain next to eachother from that inital mesh. mb there are. It is UNP HDT. It works in game. The weight painting is pretty good. There is some minor clipping in occasional frames of some animations and poses, but not very much. I made UUNP Bodyslide for it. I started to texture it, but I kinda lost inspiration. I think I want to make something more rogue-ish.

 

So I thought, since we are here talking about easy modding tips and resources, mb some of you would like to have a go giving it some amazing textures. Please don't upload it anywhere else (you Naver guys can have it. I have had so much of your stuff ), please don't put it on Nexus.

 

In game it is Dress One and Dress Two. I know, not very creative. If you look in the textures folder you will find UV Templates for the dress and the ground object box.

 

https://i.imgur.com/8D0u4zO.png

https://i.imgur.com/Ti41Vk3.png

 

 

 

Skank Dress.7z

Thanks for giving the opportunity to try this out  Unfortunately, I don't have anything I can use to 3D Paint so any texture work I do is just me guessing how the UV map will warp things so I decided to just do a simple colour change. I also added straps and panties. I'm not sure why but for some reason I felt that they were needed. I didn't bother painting their weights so they ended up doing their own thing for the remainder of the testing lol. I'm using a max weight UUNP body for this to test out how Bodyslide manages it. There's not too much clipping but I did have a lot of trouble finding poses where the breasts didn't clip the underside of the dress. The dress also seems to have a problem with lighting. It seems like it'll light up in a way that's directly related to the sky rather than the environment around it and I tried to play around with some of the shader flags to change that but nothing seemed to work (which reminds me: the files you sent don't have the Double_Sided flag so I had to do that manually). I've included some screenshots to show what I mean.

 

The last image shows the lighting problem I'm talking about. Bright outside and dark inside. I don't really know enough about nifs yet to know what's up. I did get rid of the gloss though, that much I can do  

 

Oh yeah and breast clipping lol.

I do have an idea for textures though so I'll probably continue to work on it over the next week or so. Maybe ripped clothes, tavern clothes, or some sort of lingerie?

[Frankfranky]

Lol. Straps. I don't know if you have seen TV? Clearly gravity is an optional extra where women's breasts are concerned. My wife hasn't been able to make it past "there is absolutely no way on earth that dress has even a hope of staying on" either. As for the panties ... again I point you toward the television. Again, panties are clearly an optional extra for women, especially with these clingy type dresses.

 

So regarding the lighting. I didn't take that much time with the textures at all. I can tell you the alpha channel in the normal map is completely black. This means that there should be no reflection at all. However, what you can do to tweak things is to change the glossiness - a higher number means a smaller spread of gloss, the specular color - I think it is set to a pale pink atm (that was the color of the dress when I was making it) so if you make it the color of the dress you will see less shine. If you make it black you will see a kinda revers shine, which can have a kinda funky effect. And below that is the specular strength. 1 is max. 0 is off.

 

Regarding the weight painting. Kboom made some adjustments. I have attached his edited bodyslide files here. I made the dress initially for UUNP skinny, and weighted that in 3ds max. It works pretty well for UUNP skinny. I  let bodyslide sort out all the other shapes, I admit while I edited the sliders in outfit studio, I didn't check in game, and I certainly didn't take all the shapes to 3ds max and fine tune them there. Try Kbooms bodyslide out. I am not a bodyslide pro.

 

Regarding warping, I can tell you it will warp around the centre of the breasts I don't know why bodyslide does this. Again my original UUNP skinny meshes don't warp. as for the rest of the dress, I tried to make sure the poly's were all pretty evenly sized and relaxed, so anything you put anywhere else ... should .... not stretch ... mb?

 

I am happy you gave it a go ty. I will try to fine tune all the things you mentions and I will reupload a new version soon. No straps or panties tho. If the Hollywood women don't need them, the Skyrim women don't either.

Skank Dress UUNP.7z

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Frankfranky said:

Lol. Straps. I don't know if you have seen TV? Clearly gravity is an optional extra where women's breasts are concerned. My wife hasn't been able to make it past "there is absolutely no way on earth that dress has even a hope of staying on" either. As for the panties ... again I point you toward the television. Again, panties are clearly an optional extra for women, especially with these clingy type dresses.

 

So regarding the lighting. I didn't take that much time with the textures at all. I can tell you the alpha channel in the normal map is completely black. This means that there should be no reflection at all. However, what you can do to tweak things is to change the glossiness - a higher number means a smaller spread of gloss, the specular color - I think it is set to a pale pink atm (that was the color of the dress when I was making it) so if you make it the color of the dress you will see less shine. If you make it black you will see a kinda revers shine, which can have a kinda funky effect. And below that is the specular strength. 1 is max. 0 is off.

 

Regarding the weight painting. Kboom made some adjustments. I have attached his edited bodyslide files here. I made the dress initially for UUNP skinny, and weighted that in 3ds max. It works pretty well for UUNP skinny. I  let bodyslide sort out all the other shapes, I admit while I edited the sliders in outfit studio, I didn't check in game, and I certainly didn't take all the shapes to 3ds max and fine tune them there. Try Kbooms bodyslide out. I am not a bodyslide pro.

 

Regarding warping, I can tell you it will warp around the centre of the breasts I don't know why bodyslide does this. Again my original UUNP skinny meshes don't warp. as for the rest of the dress, I tried to make sure the poly's were all pretty evenly sized and relaxed, so anything you put anywhere else ... should .... not stretch ... mb?

 

I am happy you gave it a go ty. I will try to fine tune all the things you mentions and I will reupload a new version soon. No straps or panties tho. If the Hollywood women don't need them, the Skyrim women don't either.

Skank Dress UUNP.7z

The updated mesh works great! I just went through a bunch of poses and there's no breast clipping. The only clipping I've been able to find is around the waist/pelvic region in really tight situations (like when the character is bent in a back-breaking way). The Lighting of it still seems to be a problem however  It's really confusing to try and figure out. All the normals, tangents and bitangents are facing the right way and I've updated all the shader flags. There's no change in the lighting bug when specular is turned on or off which I already tested before I posted the other screenshots.

I'll keep trying things out in the meantime, I guess.

[Frankfranky]

Alright, so here is a new version. I have actually texsted what I am uploading this time, rather than just assume. Don't say it ....

 

I have used Kbooms bodyslide data. It definately works well for UUNP-UNP. (this was all I tested. I will try to get the regular shape working perfectly. then mb worry about the rest) It does clip a bit on the legs and at the pelvis. I fixed this last time in 3ds Max, so ... there will be another update with better lower body weighting, but Kboom has done an excellent job with the breasts. I couldn't make them clip in any pose at all.

 

Regarding the lighting issues. I opened up one of Deserter x's mods. If he doesn't know how to do a dress, who does right? I tried to copy what he had done. I added an environmental map and mask. I just took the environmental map from Vanilla - shinydullds_e.dds. I don't know how to make cube maps. If someone does and they want to explain, link tutorial, both that would be awesome.

 

Anyway, outside, both dresses look like cloth now. No weird shiny bits, no weird reflections. ty Yoda, I mean DX. If anyone has a better suggestion for a cube map to use, hopefully attached to a why to use that one instead ... that would terrific. Inside Dress one looks a bit grey. I might play with the specular color a bit more, see what can be done there. It might also be my ENB. I have the lights turned up quite a bit. I don't mind darkness, but when I get a torch out or stand near candles, I like them to work. I may have overdone it a bit I think sometimes though.

 

Still unmoved on the panties and straps. When I get it back into 3ds max to touch up the weights on the hemline, I will move it away from the bum, hips and pelvis a fraction so the PRUDES!!!! (that might be you Artsick) can at least fit a thong under there without it clipping.

 

This is a very good thread Artsick. I am learning a lot of details about how to make things work by trying to get it done with other people, not just bashing my face into the monitor on my own.

 

In the mean time, Here is a new version. TY Kaboom for the much better bodyslide. TY DX for a much better example of how a BSLightingShader should be set up. TY Artsick for pointing out stuff that needed to be fixed with pictures, so I could get straight to the problem areas.

 

 

Skank Dress.7z

[kboom]

Here is my waist clipping fix for Skank dress, it fix on my end body shape but i dont know if you will have the same result

Skank Dress UUNPBS waist cliiping fix.7z

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Frankfranky said:

Alright, so here is a new version. I have actually texsted what I am uploading this time, rather than just assume. Don't say it ....

 

I have used Kbooms bodyslide data. It definately works well for UUNP-UNP. (this was all I tested. I will try to get the regular shape working perfectly. then mb worry about the rest) It does clip a bit on the legs and at the pelvis. I fixed this last time in 3ds Max, so ... there will be another update with better lower body weighting, but Kboom has done an excellent job with the breasts. I couldn't make them clip in any pose at all.

 

Regarding the lighting issues. I opened up one of Deserter x's mods. If he doesn't know how to do a dress, who does right? I tried to copy what he had done. I added an environmental map and mask. I just took the environmental map from Vanilla - shinydullds_e.dds. I don't know how to make cube maps. If someone does and they want to explain, link tutorial, both that would be awesome.

 

Anyway, outside, both dresses look like cloth now. No weird shiny bits, no weird reflections. ty Yoda, I mean DX. If anyone has a better suggestion for a cube map to use, hopefully attached to a why to use that one instead ... that would terrific. Inside Dress one looks a bit grey. I might play with the specular color a bit more, see what can be done there. It might also be my ENB. I have the lights turned up quite a bit. I don't mind darkness, but when I get a torch out or stand near candles, I like them to work. I may have overdone it a bit I think sometimes though.

 

Still unmoved on the panties and straps. When I get it back into 3ds max to touch up the weights on the hemline, I will move it away from the bum, hips and pelvis a fraction so the PRUDES!!!! (that might be you Artsick) can at least fit a thong under there without it clipping.

 

This is a very good thread Artsick. I am learning a lot of details about how to make things work by trying to get it done with other people, not just bashing my face into the monitor on my own.

 

In the mean time, Here is a new version. TY Kaboom for the much better bodyslide. TY DX for a much better example of how a BSLightingShader should be set up. TY Artsick for pointing out stuff that needed to be fixed with pictures, so I could get straight to the problem areas.

 

 

Skank Dress.7z

Hahaha, I'm not a prude, I just felt it was needed lol. I'm glad I was able to help out with this thread. The extra meshes I'm using for the underwear are 2D so you don't have to worry about being able to fit thing underneath if you don't want to. I fixed the weighting on them anyway so they don't clip anymore.

14 minutes ago, kboom said:

Here is my waist clipping fix for Skank dress, it fix on my end body shape but i dont know if you will have the same result

Skank Dress UUNPBS waist cliiping fix.7z

Thanks for this. Clipping is gone now as far as I can tell although I only had a look at it for a few minutes.

 

To the both of you, the NiAlphaProperty hasn't been filled out properly (which is probably my own fault for not including it with the OP) which is causing the lighting problems. To fix it, set the flags in the NiAlphaProperty to 4844 and the threshold to whatver you want but preferably 128.

The dress should now display correctly underwater and in interiors and under sunlight, sorry about that.

[kboom]

New UUNPBS version i tested with couple of poses, few extreme pose will cause clipping 

Spoiler

 

Skank Dress UUNPBS v1.2.7z

[Frankfranky]

wow. That is a terrific improvement Kboom. Good job.

[Guest]

Agreed, there's pretty much no clipping whatsoever now. Fantastic  

With that and the lighting problem buffed out, it seems like the only thing left to do is work on some texture variants I suppose.

 

In some poses that area where the leg and pelvis meet can warp a little but I'd take that over clipping any day tbh.