cretin Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 ...So if what you're using is currently working... Thank The Black Goat with a Thousand Young, yes, they work for me (my Trykz races are-- by fiat-- immune to Sanguinaris). Trykz, I love your mods deeply and hope you bring your genius back, after an appropriate period of mourning for the state of race modding in Skyrim. Thanks and all the best
Trykz Posted January 22, 2013 Author Posted January 22, 2013 I'll definitely be back to modding at some point. But with Bethesda constantly updating the game (and breaking thousands of mods with every patch, not just mine), the upkeep simply isn't worth it. There's an old saying that says, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Dawnguard was a necessary change given the content of the DLC. But the half-dozen patches before it simply didn't warrant breaking all those mods. I get that mods may need updating from time to time. But right now, it's simply TOO frequent for the number of mods I've put out. I can only imagine how much damage the Dragonborn DLC will do. We'll see soon enough. Trykz
Trykz Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 So today..... I figured I had one last option to try. TMPhoenix. So I went to Nexus (which I REALLY HATE having to do btw), to inform him of the issue I was having, in the hope that he could provide some sort of solution. Instead, I got the usual Nexite type reply of "that isn't true. You must have done something wrong". Yeah, sure..... cause I'm a total noob at race modding :/ Anyhow, I am now officially out of options for seamlessly race modding AND playing the game, as I could without issue under expired's original mod. Unless..... Be back later after I try something. Trykz
MrAnon101 Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Sorry to hear it is being such a pain in the uhh.. "backside" for you Trykz. And I will agree that these patches seem to cause a lot more harm than they should. I should have time today now to churn out some races to test with, but we will just have to see. I just honestly don't understand why Beth didn't include some form of custom race support themselves when they developed Skyrim. They knew Oblivion was a modder's dream and that races were a big part of it all. They had to have known Skyrim would be the exact same. It surely couldn't have been that hard for them to proxy it right (if we even had to have used proxies) and then to add a catch-all to race checks (ie. in a dialogue checking for race it could go: Dark Elf/Nord/Breton/xxx/xxx/xxx/OTHER). Just simply having a catch like that would stop all the quest issues and so on.... Anyway sorry for the rant. This nonsense hasn't inconvenienced me nearly as much as it has you (my 2 private mods vs your 2.5 billion ). Hopefully your little idea will work.
Trykz Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 Sorry to hear it is being such a pain in the uhh.. "backside" for you Trykz. And I will agree that these patches seem to cause a lot more harm than they should. I should have time today now to churn out some races to test with' date=' but we will just have to see. I just honestly don't understand why Beth didn't include some form of custom race support themselves when they developed Skyrim. They knew Oblivion was a modder's dream and that races were a big part of it all. They had to have known Skyrim would be the exact same. It surely couldn't have been that hard for them to proxy it right (if we even had to have used proxies) and then to add a [i']catch-all[/i] to race checks (ie. in a dialogue checking for race it could go: Dark Elf/Nord/Breton/xxx/xxx/xxx/OTHER). Just simply having a catch like that would stop all the quest issues and so on.... Anyway sorry for the rant. This nonsense hasn't inconvenienced me nearly as much as it has you (my 2 private mods vs your 2.5 billion ). Hopefully your little idea will work. I'm hoping so too. Anyway, what I'm trying is this: First, I duplicated my ENTIRE Skyrim installation by copying it to a new folder on the same HD. Then I renamed the CK program in that folder to CreationKit2.exe and..... so far it works fine, with edited ESPs going straight into the duplicate Data folder. I replaced TMPhoenix's versions of RaceCompatibility.esm and GenericRaceController.pex with expired's original versions. I then re-scripted a single race with the duplicate CK, and so far everything is working as expected. It even works after transferring the ESP and race controller into my original Skyrim directory. I'm in the process of re-scripting a second race now to see how two races work together. It's not ideal, but if it works, I'm fine with it. Because I can build in one folder, and playtest in the other with TMPhoenix's version. At least I won't need to go through the hassle of swapping files around between build and playtest sessions. We'll see. Trykz
Trykz Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 It doesn't work. I still have the same issue. As soon as the second race is added to the Data folder, the first race loses eye and hair selection. So just to be completely thorough, I'll try one more thing tomorrow: I'll completely re-install Skyrim (for the 4th time because of this issue), and rebuild two of my races (instead of merely re-scripting them). From scratch. Beyond that, I have no clue what else I could possibly do to resolve this. Let me know how things work out for your two builds as far as compatibility goes MrAnon. Thanks, Trykz
MrAnon101 Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Just a heads up Trykz, I am just about finished with the planning and getting some meshes/textures/other resources together (even for a quickie like this I still kind of want to build it properly....). I'll have a race ready in a few hours. If it seems to work without causing issues I will upload it to mediafire for you. Here's hoping... EDIT: And now it might take a bit longer than expected. The CK keeps crashing when it tries to load Skyrim.esm (some nonsense about missing strings). I do the usual "Ignore" and "Yes to All" trick but nope... Reinstalling... EDIT 2: And wonderful! The damned CK won't even launch now... EDIT 3: I swear... Skyrim is freaking messing with me! Turns out if you tell steam to delete the local content for the Creation Kit.... It isn't the only damned thing it deletes. I now have to redownload Skyrim and reinstall all my freaking mods. Good fun. I do apologize Trykz. It is downloading as I speak. If I can get everything up and running today I will still do it in decent time, otherwise it might be tomorrow. Not fun.
NexusCron Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Trykz, are you having the same problem I just did as a user? Dagi-Raht race, on nexus. Playing for a while, all of a sudden implosion. Hair and eyes freak out, reinstall Dagi, implodes again, hair freaks out again (another custom race is fine.)
Trykz Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 EDIT: And now it might take a bit longer than expected. The CK keeps crashing when it tries to load Skyrim.esm (some nonsense about missing strings). Boy' date=' does this ever sound familiar. This is exactly where my nightmare began after I installed TMPhoenix's mod and tried building a race. edit: and don't feel too bad. I'm now doing exactly what you're doing for the fourth (and final) time. But here's a couple things to check: make sure this line exists in the [General'] section of the SkyrimEditor.ini: bAllowMultipleMasterLoads=1 For the strings issue, it sounds like the CK is looking to load a resource archive you're not selecting. Check for these lines in the [Archive] section of the SkyrimEditor.ini SResourceArchiveList2=Skyrim - Shaders.bsa, Update.bsa SResourceArchiveList2=Skyrim - Shaders.bsa, Update.bsa, Dawnguard.bsa It sounds as if the copy of RaceCompatibility.esm you're trying to load needs Dawnguard. Dawnguard's strings are packed into it's BSA. Keep me posted, but don't rush. Because there's still a chance that the coming Dragonborn DLC will have us revisiting this issue again. Trykz' date=' are you having the same problem I just did as a user? Dagi-Raht race, on nexus. Playing for a while, all of a sudden implosion. Hair and eyes freak out, reinstall Dagi, implodes again, hair freaks out again (another custom race is fine.)[/quote'] Not exactly, but VERY similar. The issues I'm having are right at character creation, where adding a second race to the Data folder (built under the same version of RaceCompatibility.esm), causes the first race to lose eye and hair selection. So I have to ask: did you "upgrade" using TMPhoenix's mod after installing that race? This is why I suspect that TMPhoenix hasn't actually used his own mod to *build* multiple races. Because it simply won't work. Something he changed causes incompatibility between the races, which was never an issue under expired6978's original RaceCompatibility. Trykz
NexusCron Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Nope. Trykz, I used the race compatibility that came with Dagi-Raht, and that was the only one I had active. Playing fine for several hours, all of a sudden I get a RATHER NASTY Crash to desktop, so I go to reload... EVERYTHING freaked out. With ALL my custom races, This is BEFORE TMphoenix. After I put in TMphoenix's mod...everything started cooperating. So I don't know. (Dagi Raht refused to, no matter what, even before TMphoenix, So it was the only one that didn't cooperate, but the modder stopped working on it anyway.) Edit: Then Again, I installed TMphoenix's mod using the NexusModManager and Dawnguard/Better Vampires compatibility, and with USKP Override.)
Trykz Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 Edit: Then Again' date=' I installed TMphoenix's mod using the NexusModManager and Dawnguard/Better Vampires compatibility, and with USKP Override.)[/quote'] As I noted to TMPhoenix on Nexus, his RaceCompatibility version works fine for fixing races that were created under earlier versions. It's when you try to use it to create *new* races that it causes issues. It does seem odd that it didn't resolve the issue with the Dagi-Raht race, but it did for all the others. I suspect it's something in the way the GenericRaceController.pex handles the Dagi-RahtRaceController.pex (or whatever that races' controller is called) script. The differences between TMPhoenix's GenericRaceController.pex and expired's original file are quite distinct. I hate to say it, but I think multi-race modders are just SOL here. There simply aren't enough of us to warrant someone with scripting knowledge providing us with the fix we need for multi-race build compatibility I'm still plugging away at it, but I don't expect to get very far. But I'll at least be as thorough as I possibly can before I completely give up on it. Trykz
TMPhoenix Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 So today..... I figured I had one last option to try. TMPhoenix. So I went to Nexus (which I REALLY HATE having to do btw)' date=' to inform him of the issue I was having, in the hope that he could provide some sort of solution. Instead, I got the usual Nexite type reply of "that isn't true. You must have done something wrong". Yeah, sure..... cause I'm a total noob at race modding :/ Anyhow, I am now officially out of options for seamlessly race modding AND playing the game, as I could without issue under expired's original mod. Unless..... Be back later after I try something. Trykz [/quote'] I wasn't giving you "the usual Nexite answer". I was simply stating that I did not experience the same issues you were having and I'm quite aware of your modding activities here. Please also look at my reply on the nexus, so I can start helping you diagnose the issues. Edit: Make that replies.
Trykz Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 I wasn't giving you "the usual Nexite answer". I was simply stating that I did not experience the same issues you were having and I'm quite aware of your modding activities here.Please also look at my reply on the nexus' date=' so I can start helping you diagnose the issues. [/quote'] That's really all I was looking for. One modder to another, it moves things forward when cooperation happens right away. But your first reply was a bit more dismissive than I had expected. If you look back over my last posts in this thread, you'll see that I've exhausted pretty much every available option on my end. And I did so before coming to you. In any event, none of that really matters at this point, and I hope we can sort this together as two modders should, to keep things moving forward. Thanks, Trykz
kevlar69 Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Are these still available? I fail to see any download links or text in the first 5 pages. Looks cool. Are these races for playable characters, or can they be found as NPCs as well?
Trykz Posted January 24, 2013 Author Posted January 24, 2013 Any Luck so far Trykz? Actually, yes. It seems that the conflict lies between TMPhoenix's RaceCompatibility and the Live Another Life alternate start mod. For some reason, TMPhoenix's version of RaceCompatibility slows the load time of the race controllers (the scripts that handle eye, hair, and other customizations), so that when LAL loads the racemenu, the necessary scripts are not loaded in time. Normally this wouldn't be a huge issue, except that my races use a lot of custom and high resolution textures that simply don't play nice with the vanilla Helgen start. So unless either TMPhoenix or Arthmoor (the author of LAL) can mange a workaround for this issue, there's not much I can do to resolve it. One or the other needs to happen: either TMPhoenix needs to find a method of loading custom race scripts before LAL loads the racemenu, OR, Arthmoor needs to delay the loading of the racemenu for about 3 seconds to give the race controllers of custom races time to load. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it should be TMPhoenix to resolve this, mainly because LAL never had this issue under expired's version of RaceCompatibility. But that's just my opinion. And it's ultimately up to one of those modders to decide how to proceed (if either of them even care to). Other than that, the ONLY solution I can offer is this: IF your system is capable of loading into Helgen (it's quite tough when you use a lot of hair mods and texture mods, most custom races just blow the Skyrim engine apart, causing the game to CTD upon selection), then you're fine. If it isn't and you rely on mods like Live Another Life to start indoors, then you'll need to allow LAL to load the racemenu, and simply create a generic Nord female character (don't bother customizing). Then, after the Live Another Life quest loads, use the showracemenu command to re-enter the racemenu, select the race you want, and THEN customize your character. This is the method I had to use to create and run two completely compatible races, with all customization assets loaded and ready to use. I wish I could offer something better, but that's pretty much it. Trykz
Trykz Posted January 24, 2013 Author Posted January 24, 2013 Are these still available? I fail to see any download links or text in the first 5 pages. Looks cool. Are these races for playable characters' date=' or can they be found as NPCs as well? [/quote'] These are all playable races. Currently, they are in the process of having their race controllers all re-scripted (and adding vampire variants for those without them) for better compatibility with ANY version of Skyrim. As of right now, only The Demoness race includes a single NPC which is a follower. She can be found right outside Riverwood on the hill to the right as you come from Helgen, in the fenced in camp I created for her. I should have them all re-scripted, repacked, an re-uploaded sometime over this coming week. I'll also be brushing up the first few posts in this thread as a lot will be changing in how they are played depending on the version of Skyrim you use (Dawnguard, no Dawnguard, USKP, Better Vampires, etc.). Trykz
trythisone123 Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Any Luck so far Trykz? Actually' date=' yes. It seems that the conflict lies between TMPhoenix's RaceCompatibility and the Live Another Life alternate start mod. For some reason, TMPhoenix's version of RaceCompatibility slows the load time of the race controllers (the scripts that handle eye, hair, and other customizations), so that when LAL loads the racemenu, the necessary scripts are not loaded in time. Normally this wouldn't be a huge issue, except that my races use a lot of custom and high resolution textures that simply don't play nice with the vanilla Helgen start. So unless either TMPhoenix or Arthmoor (the author of LAL) can mange a workaround for this issue, there's not much I can do to resolve it. One or the other needs to happen: either TMPhoenix needs to find a method of loading custom race scripts before LAL loads the racemenu, OR, Arthmoor needs to delay the loading of the racemenu for about 3 seconds to give the race controllers of custom races time to load. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it should be TMPhoenix to resolve this, mainly because LAL never had this issue under expired's version of RaceCompatibility. But that's just my opinion. And it's ultimately up to one of those modders to decide how to proceed (if either of them even care to). Other than that, the ONLY solution I can offer is this: IF your system is capable of loading into Helgen (it's quite tough when you use a lot of hair mods and texture mods, most custom races just blow the Skyrim engine apart, causing the game to CTD upon selection), then you're fine. If it isn't and you rely on mods like Live Another Life to start indoors, then you'll need to allow LAL to load the racemenu, and simply create a generic Nord female character (don't bother customizing). Then, after the Live Another Life quest loads, use the showracemenu command to re-enter the racemenu, select the race you want, and THEN customize your character. This is the method I had to use to create and run two completely compatible races, with all customization assets loaded and ready to use. I wish I could offer something better, but that's pretty much it. Trykz [/quote'] Hmm that explains alot about why my game blows up with LAL +custom all the things, when I try to straight up make my char at the first racemenu, I'm running the Optimizer Texture utility ( http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/12801 ) on max which seems to help but takes forever to smash everything before I play now. Never thought about just making a blank char and than race menuing after, but now I know why! Thanks!
MrAnon101 Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Compatibility with Live Another Life? I can't say I expected that would be the culprit... But I can see how. The classic skyrim intro obviously has a fairly long lead-in time before the showracemenu even shows whereas LAL is pretty much instant :/ Are you running any other script intensive mods that might be triggering when starting the game? The Combat module from ACE probably isn't helping considering it constantly polls the character to see what is going on (if you use something like that of course). Out of curiosity (seeing as I haven't opened up your races in the CK) are your races fairly script heavy too? Or do they have very high resolution textures? I know if I run too many race mods I risk a ctd but I can still normally get 2 custom races with custom textures/meshes/skeletons running along side 2 hair mods without it losing anything. That being said, throw a 3rd hair mod in and that's it... Either way, everything is installed and running. I'll have a racemod up in a few hours for you this time. Can't be bothered making it vanilla compatible... Hopefully you are fine with a DG-only one to look at. ... If it even matters now .
MrAnon101 Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Okay Trykz, I have completed a custom race using the latest version of Racial Compatibility from TM. I built this using the Dawnguard version so naturally this is a master (as well as update.esm and skyrim.esm naturally). I know that was lazy, but meh? Now for testing: I ran this alongside one other race mod - my older one. I also ran this with Live Another Life (because I can't even bring myself to imagine sitting through that cart ride ever again). The race is using a custom body and custom texture set - Though I failed to include any unique eyes or hairs (starting running a little short on time). I also made about 5 basic presets give or take. Now, going into race creation I first selected my original and fiddled around a bit. The full hair selection was there as well as everything else. I then went to the new race and again, it was all there. I finished race creation and contracted vampirism (I also got a case of the uglies in doing so... But fixed that with the CK later). I then reverted back to my base race and the original customization was still intact fine. So all up, it seems to be working - Unless I am overlooking something. An observation I did make whilst making the race was during the Auto-Fill of the race controller scripts. 35 entries are supposed to be filled yet this only did 33 - This is mentioned in the original readme as meaning the RaceCompatibility.esm is missing. This is also supposed to mean vampirism will not work - Take that as you will. Either way, here is a mediafire link of the race if you needed/wanted to check it out: http://www.mediafire.com/?94c235pzz3c7gz0 Things to note: It needs Dawnguard as I said eariler There is a small error in the mesh at the ankles. My bad. Lack of race description (it is a quicky ) Probably 500 and 1 bugs... but again, meh? On a plus note you can throw poison at people....
Trykz Posted January 25, 2013 Author Posted January 25, 2013 I ran this alongside one other race mod - my older one.I also ran this with Live Another Life (because I can't even bring myself to imagine sitting through that cart ride ever again). The race is using a custom body and custom texture set - Though I failed to include any unique eyes or hairs (starting running a little short on time). I also made about 5 basic presets give or take. Now' date=' going into race creation I first selected my original and fiddled around a bit. The full hair selection was there as well as everything else. I then went to the new race and again, it was all there. I finished race creation and contracted vampirism ([i']I also got a case of the uglies in doing so... But fixed that with the CK later[/i]). I then reverted back to my base race and the original customization was still intact fine. I think the issue with LAL may only exist in the Vanilla version of TMPhoenix's mod. I suspect that it may be because of the additional time the base game affords for Dawnguard scripts and assets to load in before character creation. Did you notice any pause or delay (or even the slightest freeze) between selecting to start a new game and the loading of LAL's race menu? Even a slight second or two could make a difference in custom race scripts loading in time. I downloaded your test race to compare and test beside the races I'm working on under TMPhoenix's vanilla version, to see if any conflicts exist between them. I left Arthmoor messages on both the Nexus and Bethesda forums to hopefully shed some more light on this. So we'll see. Trykz
MrAnon101 Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I suspect that it may be because of the additional time the base game affords for Dawnguard scripts and assets to load in before character creation. Did you notice any pause or delay (or even the slightest freeze) between selecting to start a new game and the loading of LAL's race menu? Yes actually' date=' for me it always pauses for a moment as the race menu loads. After maybe 1-2 seconds the race menu fully loads and is usable. That is about the only delay I get though besides actually sitting on the New Game loading screen. Also threw in a 3rd race into the mix ([i']Obscuura[/i]) and I will admit that half the time that race plays up a bit (actually, in a familiar fashion it is normally the hair selection that goes bad with this race), but the others are fine. ... Still think it would be good if the race menu itself wasn't a buggy mess >.> I'll also take a peek at your Daywalker race seeing as I snagged that before ye' made the links private. Maybe there is some tiny silly thing out of place? I really doubt it though. Your races generally seem to be the most well built ones around . EDIT: Well I'm a smart one aren't I? The Daywalker obviously doesn't have a non-vampire variant so there won't be much to look at in the CK. Don't mind me. It's hot today EDIT 2: Super quick question, and a super easy one to check: In your race controller quests you do have the "Run Once" checkbox under "Quest Data" unticked right? If that box is ticked all hell could start >.> I only ask because I notice that while the quest is unused in your Daywalker race, you do have that box ticked. I am not sure if you accidentally left it ticked in the other races as well.
Trykz Posted January 26, 2013 Author Posted January 26, 2013 EDIT 2: Super quick question' date=' and a super easy one to check:In your race controller quests you do have the "[i']Run Once[/i]" checkbox under "Quest Data" unticked right? If that box is ticked all hell could start >.> I only ask because I notice that while the quest is unused in your Daywalker race, you do have that box ticked. I am not sure if you accidentally left it ticked in the other races as well. Hmm.... now that you mention it, I really don't recall. I'm beginning to wonder if this is a glitch with TMPhoenix's version, or if the latest patch changed the way quests are handled during the build (with things being checked that weren't checked in the last Skyrim version). In any event, I think I'm going to leave my current races alone and re-open their downloads. They should work fine as they are for players using TMPhoenix's version of RaceCompatibility to patch them. However: before I release any new races, I plan to THOROUGHLY test my latest unreleased race in EVERY manner from character creation straight through to the end of the DB, Dawnguard, AND main quest lines. I'll speed the process along as much as I can, but I won't skip any of the more important bits that tend to present issues. My next race mod is BY FAR more expansive than anything I've done before. So I want to be sure to get everything right. On the surface it may seem like any other race mod, but the inner workings of it are quite..... deep. With it's own custom armor mashup (very befitting to the race and the background story I wrote for it), and an entire town full of it's own NPCs (which you will need to discover after character creation). It likely won't be released any time before the Dragonborn DLC, but should follow sometime thereafter. I usually buy DLCs as soon as they're available, so I can start resolving any issues my races may have (or upgrades they may need) right away. The Dragonborn DLC is scheduled to release on February 5th. I expect this race to likely surpass even Moonshadow Elves among my races in popularity (I'll get some preliminary screens up in a few days if I can). Hopefully the DLC doesn't set me back too much. Trykz
NexusCron Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I shall be..honest. I've heard nothing but good things from the Xbox players of Dragonborn.
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