[mod] Dark World - Beyond Heresy

[Cozza]

Quick question, i'm playing a Muslim succubus who has found the temple place and is now kadamist, but i'm unable to create the caliph, i meet the prerequisites, I own Mecca and Medina, and i am a succubus. Am I missing something or is this a bug?

 

I was having a look through the files.

 

Are you independent? if not revolt against your liege. Seems you can create it while revolting

If you are, have you got any revolts going on? end them and you can create it.

 

But I'm a complete nub when it comes to reading text files so I might be wrong.

[bicobus]

 

So I just spawned the demon child, and he gained the incubus trait. Well done Aliris

 

Another possibility - you can pick up some special-trait characters via slave purchasing, if you take business focus and have the appropriate slave buildings. There's an event that fires randomly that lets you either get money, buy slaves, or take a chance to see what exotic slaves are available. It's random which ones will be there, but succubus is one possibility.

 

Slaves don't work well for me, they die too quickly for nothing.

 

 

 

do my character needs to be either incubus or succubus to enable the heresy content? Because, to me, that's kind of a big wall to cross. I've had one succubus in my game, and she died of the flu. Her son spawned several other incubus who, all but one, died from slow fever. Meanwhile, my elf king managed to become high priest of the society of the great deceiver and started spawning lillithanism in England. And he's IRISH! Anyhow, I plan to suck the life off my newborns so I can live forever!

 

But really, how do we access beyond heresy content?

 

I have only seen it as a succubus, and you're right they are pretty rare. I started as a succubus which made it easier to see the content, and it does get OP pretty quickly. Pretty fun though!

 

 

Thanks - the OPness is sort of why I was poking around with other ideas like an Orcish invasion to provide extra challenges.

 

 

Been playing an incubus for a hundred years now. Outside the fact that you can heal yourself out of any ailments, which make sense if you are immortal and have a direct access to a goddess, the incubus/succubus powers do seem a bit too powerful. You are able to influence other NPC, even outside your realm, with no drawback outside than a bit of piety. At the very least, I would have expected for the target to be aware of the Nightmare death and who did it.

 

I also established the lilith papacy. That spawned a succubus, which died 60 years or so later to leave behind some idiot in the role of pape. Can't we have a succubus as heir?

 

Moving on. Early in the game, I chose to go for free investiture. It was before the lilith religion. But now I can't seem to go back to papal investiture. The reason I want to go back to papal investiture is so I can give Glitterhoof some land and start the real meat of the game: a succubus/horse/futa/elf mix as king of the world! But if I can't give glitterhoof a land, that project is dead in the sea. I am past the year 1000, but somehow miss the ability to change that rule. Doesn't the lilith religion use it?

[Ashra XIII]

 

I also established the lilith papacy. That spawned a succubus, which died 60 years or so later to leave behind some idiot in the role of pape. Can't we have a succubus as heir?

 

Shoot, I knew there was something else I'd wanted to try!

 

The one time I've been able to get the Lilithanist faith going, I was way too far from Rome to even take a shot at it without some serious conquering. I need to start a bit closer and see what I can do.

[bicobus]

I was helped by the slavic people, they went to conquer rome before the year 1000. That greatly diminished the strength of those nasty Christians.

[Aliris]

 

Slaves don't work well for me, they die too quickly for nothing.

 

 

 

 

Been playing an incubus for a hundred years now. Outside the fact that you can heal yourself out of any ailments, which make sense if you are immortal and have a direct access to a goddess, the incubus/succubus powers do seem a bit too powerful. You are able to influence other NPC, even outside your realm, with no drawback outside than a bit of piety. At the very least, I would have expected for the target to be aware of the Nightmare death and who did it.

 

I also established the lilith papacy. That spawned a succubus, which died 60 years or so later to leave behind some idiot in the role of pape. Can't we have a succubus as heir?

 

 

Moving on. Early in the game, I chose to go for free investiture. It was before the lilith religion. But now I can't seem to go back to papal investiture. The reason I want to go back to papal investiture is so I can give Glitterhoof some land and start the real meat of the game: a succubus/horse/futa/elf mix as king of the world! But if I can't give glitterhoof a land, that project is dead in the sea. I am past the year 1000, but somehow miss the ability to change that rule. Doesn't the lilith religion use it?

 

 

I noticed that too with the slaves. I think what tends to happen is that CK2 gets highly active at pruning your court of people it thinks are unimportant, to keep down on the number of checks and calculations. Newly purchased slaves are likely in its crosshairs right away, as I'm not sure how to prevent it from touching them for a period of time for an event. What I found worked well was to immediate mark them as important (I think). I know it'll leave them alone if they have some sort of connection to your character (like pregnant with a child, or a lover, or something).

 

 

As far as Papal Investiture, I'm not sure? I don't think I messed with that mechanic at all for them.

[Aliris]

Also, you can also just use the console to delete the trait, too.

[bicobus]

Err, delete which trait? What I meant with the papacy is that it becomes just like before once the succubus is dead. And I don't know how to reenable the papal investiture past year 1000.

 

I'd really like to have this back: http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Papal_succession

 

Edit: Alright, so as per crown_laws.txt investiture only works with catholics and fraticelli. You may also want to take a look at religious_titles folder. There are a set of rules specific for papacy, and some heresy can't have a pope. So you might want to copy some of the fraticelli things, as it is an heresy with a pope and a college of cardinals.

 

Also, I believe there is a mix up of the icons between the orthodox and catholic religions. I started as a catholic heresy, but when lilithuanism went mainstream the icon switched for orthodox.

[Aliris]

Err, delete which trait? What I meant with the papacy is that it becomes just like before once the succubus is dead. And I don't know how to reenable the papal investiture past year 1000.

 

I'd really like to have this back: http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Papal_succession

 

Edit: Alright, so as per crown_laws.txt investiture only works with catholics and fraticelli. You may also want to take a look at religious_titles folder. There are a set of rules specific for papacy, and some heresy can't have a pope. So you might want to copy some of the fraticelli things, as it is an heresy with a pope and a college of cardinals.

 

Also, I believe there is a mix up of the icons between the orthodox and catholic religions. I started as a catholic heresy, but when lilithuanism went mainstream the icon switched for orthodox.

 

I meant that you can delete the 'horse' trait that nukes Glitterhoof's fertility, which then allows them to be granted land and have children normally etc.

 

I think I looked at duplicating all of the Fraticelli events, but it was a royal pain in the backside, so I skipped it. Probably what I could do is set up so that any title holder of the Lilithian Papacy that isn't an incubus/succubus becomes one, but I was sort of aiming at that being a special case, i.e., after the first one you aren't guaranteed to have one, because things get turned over to humans.

 

As for the religious icons, that's weird. I wonder why it did that.

[bicobus]

The orc "host" spawned. But there is only one orc with no court and no money. Not even in a war. Will that happens later?

Happens later. Also, his first act of war is a slave raid. He won't last long.

 

As for the Fraticelli, it's merely to allow the lilithanists to have a proper papacy and be somewhat organized, I don't know if you need to override the vanilla scripts for that. As for the pope, well I believe it should have the proper traits to reflect how awesome lilith is. After all, how can a mere human understand her will? Is it normal to be able to vassalize the papacy?

[Aliris]

The AI for the Orcs seems entirely derpy. I'm not sure why. They should be raiding conquering and murdering nonstop.

 

I'm not sure there's anything special about the Lilith Papacy that prevents it, though I've yet to see it occur in my games.

[bicobus]

I'm going to try and blacklist the dynasty from having access to the slave raids CB. They did finally start an invasion, and it was insane. A host of hundred of thousands of men from one little county.

 

Edit: what I did instead is to add an ai_will_do scope for the orcish culture, and reduce the factor to 0 if the attacker do not have a demesne high enough:

 

    ai_will_do = {
        factor = 1
        modifier = {
            factor = 0
            ROOT = {
                culture_group = orcish
                demesne_size = 10
            }
        }
    }

 

That way, the orcish horde will still be able to issue a slave raid CB but only if they did some conquering before.

[bicobus]

I ran the game in debug mode and there were quite a lot of smallish issues reported (typos and non-existant traits). For example, you add a "raped" trait when DW:R's internal name is "victim".
 
The ai_will_do thing I wrote didn't work. I had to properly ban the orcish culture group to issue slave raids. Maybe because the demesne size is too small?
 
Anyhow, this might be interesting:
 

[effectimplementation.cpp:3355]: Script Assert Failure! message: Invalid CB Type!, type: "war", location: " file: events/DWBH_Orc_invasion.txt line: 260"

Edit:
I suggest copying the manifest_destiny_invasion vanilla casus belli and tweak it for the orcish horde. Seems perfect for your case. The other holy wars seems to have specific religion or empire baked into their can_use scope.

[Aliris]

To clarify, Glitterhoof the lunatic event spawned horse is both "Culture - Horse" and has a horse trait, the latter of which gives something like -1000% fertility, which is why Glitterhoof can't have any heirs. The workaround to that people discovered was to appoint him a bishop, after which his successor would be of horse culture, but without the horse trait, and thus able to have children/etc. You can also use console/cheat commands to remove it though, is what I was saying.

 

And good idea on the ai_will_do - I'll take a look at that.

[bicobus]

Right, but glitterhoof isn't a game breaking issue though. It would seem that the casus belli you've chosen (holy_war) isn't defined, which is why the horde triggers slaveraids instead regarless of the ai_will_do scope. Disabling the slaveraid for the horde's dynasty effectively forces the orcs to declare a regular war to their neighbors. Since I don't really know your aim with the holy_war casus belli, I don't really know how to replace it. Should it be a crusade or, as I said earlier, a "manifest destiny" kind of CB?

 

A bit of a feature request now. I would really like to see a "true orc" trait for some of the orc dynasty, that trait would ensure they have a 100% chance of passing down the orc race. The idea behind it would be that they are the true orcish beasts of old, with full potency and hated by all. Basically, they come to the world, kidnap women a breed more orcs. There isn't a need to have a lot of "true orcs", just some to start the dynasty. The reason behind that is because orcs will tend to get concubines regardless of race and generate orc-less heirs. Another way around this issue would be to only allow pawns with an orc trait to inherit land in the orcish kingdom, everybody else would be defacto second class citizen.

 

Or could it be possible to have an on_action birth event that will look at the culture/ethnicity and traits of the parents to have a chance for the orc trait to jump a generation or two. I don't know if it is doable though.

[penzor]

Hm could the true orc trait be used as inheritance priority, like the born in purple trait work? Pretty sure an orc kingdom would prefer an orc.

[Aliris]

Holy war is pretty much just a generic CB that can be used to grab territory from neighbors of a different religion. Maybe I screwed something up for that, or maybe the slave raid ability just keeps overriding it somehow.

 

As far as inheritance for the orcs, I'd definitely like to keep it to some sort of preference for the orc trait/orc culture, though I'm unsure whether that would take some sort of custom inheritance law or such, somehow.

[bicobus]

I'm not trying to argue with you, rather to understand how the casus belli works. I couldn't find a single occurence of "casus_belli = holy_war" in the vanilla files, nor is there any reference of that line on the internet. However there are several existing CB to be used as holy war depending on the religion groups. There is a "pagan_holy_war" casus belli, but that one is very selective to which religion can make use of (see spoiler). There is one "religious" casus belli, but it isn't available to any pagan religion. The crusades can be used by pagan groups though.

 

 

    can_use = {
        ROOT = {
            OR = {
                religion = norse_pagan_reformed
                religion = tengri_pagan_reformed
                religion = baltic_pagan_reformed
                religion = slavic_pagan_reformed
                religion = finnish_pagan_reformed
                religion = aztec_reformed
                religion = aztec
                religion = west_african_pagan_reformed
                religion = zun_pagan_reformed
            }
            NOT = { same_realm = FROM }
            NOT = { religion = FROM }
            top_liege = {
                religion = ROOT
            }
            mercenary = no
        }
    }

 

As for the born in purple, sadly that mechanic has been hard coded.

[Aliris]

This is the one I'm probably thinking of:

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Casus_Belli#Holy_War

 

It may not be showing up for Orcs if they're marked as unreformed pagans (which I'll check).

[bicobus]

This is the one I'm probably thinking of:

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Casus_Belli#Holy_War

 

It may not be showing up for Orcs if they're marked as unreformed pagans (which I'll check).

 

That CB is named religious, not literally "holy_war". Also it isn't available for pagan_group religions:

 

 

Unreformed Pagans do not have holy wars.

Reformed pagans have the more powerful pagan_holy_war CB, which cherry pick specific reformed religions.

[ngppgn]

You can always create a copy of another cb in another file, tweak their preconditions, amd make them use that.

[bicobus]

You can always create a copy of another cb in another file, tweak their preconditions, amd make them use that.

 

Yes, this is what I suggested with the manifest destiny CB. That CB seems to be part of a scenario where the individual aims to conquer the world. The CB is just that: you can conquer anything bordering your empire. It is only available for two dynasties: Seljuks (before year 1200) and Timurids, and the empires of persia, byzantium and arabia.

 

It is considered as a holy war and all there is to do is change the allowed dynasty and titles.

[abx09]

i added them my self but are there any plans for concubines or second wives to be apart of your mod?

[lordplay]

 

Quick question, i'm playing a Muslim succubus who has found the temple place and is now kadamist, but i'm unable to create the caliph, i meet the prerequisites, I own Mecca and Medina, and i am a succubus. Am I missing something or is this a bug?

 

I was having a look through the files.

 

Are you independent? if not revolt against your liege. Seems you can create it while revolting

If you are, have you got any revolts going on? end them and you can create it.

 

But I'm a complete nub when it comes to reading text files so I might be wrong.

 

 

 

 

So I just spawned the demon child, and he gained the incubus trait. Well done Aliris

 

Another possibility - you can pick up some special-trait characters via slave purchasing, if you take business focus and have the appropriate slave buildings. There's an event that fires randomly that lets you either get money, buy slaves, or take a chance to see what exotic slaves are available. It's random which ones will be there, but succubus is one possibility.

Quick question, i'm playing a Muslim succubus who has found the temple place and is now kadamist, but i'm unable to create the caliph, i meet the prerequisites, I own Mecca and Medina, and i am a succubus. Am I missing something or is this a bug?

 

I'm not sure about that to be honest. I haven't tried that route in a while, so it's entirely possible that something is buggy with it.

 

Where is it giving you the issue? Is the decision not appearing, or can you not click it somehow? If you can click it, is it not doing anything?

 

do my character needs to be either incubus or succubus to enable the heresy content? Because, to me, that's kind of a big wall to cross. I've had one succubus in my game, and she died of the flu. Her son spawned several other incubus who, all but one, died from slow fever. Meanwhile, my elf king managed to become high priest of the society of the great deceiver and started spawning lillithanism in England. And he's IRISH! Anyhow, I plan to suck the life off my newborns so I can live forever!

 

But really, how do we access beyond heresy content?

 

I have only seen it as a succubus, and you're right they are pretty rare. I started as a succubus which made it easier to see the content, and it does get OP pretty quickly. Pretty fun though!

 

 

Thanks - the OPness is sort of why I was poking around with other ideas like an Orcish invasion to provide extra challenges. 

 

Thanks for the attempt Cozza, but im not in any type of revolt. To answer Aliris the create a title icon for the caliph title dosen't appear. if i go to it via the religion tab, and click on the badge for the caliph it create option is grayed out, when i highlight it to see the requirements it says i need somewhere (cant remember exactly) around 300 gold and no piety to create this title, I have way more gold than it says i need but the gold in the requirements is red (like i don't have enough) and it is uncreateable. added a screenshot to try to help.

[bicobus]

Just to be sure: are you independent?

[Merdred44]

I was playing around with the Orc Invasion game rules and noticed a couple of things...not sure if they matter or not, as far as the Invasion goes, so thought I'd ask.

 

In the invasion event code:

 

mean_time_to_happen = {

months = 720

modifier = {

factor = 0.5

year = 1320

}

modifier = {

factor = 4

has_game_rule = {

name = dwbh_orc_invasion

value = random

}

}

modifier = {

factor = 3

has_game_rule = {

name = dwbh_orc_invasion

value = delayed_random

}

 

Shouldn't the value = the game rules name?  Example:  dwbh_delay_orc_invasion, instead of delayed_random. 

 

 

Also the second orc invasion does the same thing with the Trigger Values.  Using Random, Delayed_Random (etc.), instead of the Game_Rule names.

 

 

I was going to add another game_rule option to the invasion and wasn't sure if either of the two things above mattered.