[mod] Dark World - Beyond Heresy

[greeNode]

Is there any interaction with Nestorians or Messalians?

[Aliris]

1 hour ago, greeNode said:

Is there any interaction with Nestorians or Messalians?

Not presently. I could probably set it up, as it wouldn't be too different from the other two Christian heresies - I simply hadn't really thought much of it, since they're so rarely seen in the game.

 

Any thoughts on something that might make them different/unique maybe?

[Aliris]

Update v1.2 - Angelic Powers

-----------------------------------

Angels now have several abilities, all of which draw on their piety as a mechanism to channel the power of the heavens:

-Lesser, Moderate, and Greater Restoration allow the Angel to heal themselves or others of diseases and injuries

-Angels leading armies can use their divine glory to inspire their soldiers

-Angels possess the ability to Smite evildoers and sinners from afar, resulting in blindness, dumbness, incapacity, or even outright death. Those who survive may be shocked into repenting all of their sins and vowing celibacy on top of the aforementioned affects.

-Female Angels possessed of great piety can even pray to experience an immaculate conception of a divine child, who will be born without flaw, possessed of higher than normal capability and health, and either 2 or 3 of the strong/attractive/genius traits (at the cost of a ton of piety)

 

AI Angels have access to these powers, but will tend to be far more constrained in their use (at least for the moment).

[Aliris]

One tweak to the current system I'm working on that will be in the next minor update - changing the smite ability to have a variable cost. Instead of 500 piety, it will cost 125 + 125 x the number of sinful traits (the 7 deadly plus a few others), up to a max of 750 with 5+. You can still use the ability even if you only have 125, you'll just go negative... and if you go negative, you'll invite a backlash judgment as well, even if a much less damaging one (chance for stressed, depressed, wounded, severely injured). Judge not, lest ye be judged, etc...

 

I think I'll also be reducing the piety costs on the other abilities as well, though they won't use that variable system (at least not yet).

[Aliris]

Uploaded v1.2.1, which includes a number of fixes and two new abilities. Costs for most of the abilities were reduced, with smite changing as above. Additionally, Divine Conception now only costs 500 piety, but requires having none of the seven deadly sin traits.

 

The two new abilities are as follows:

-Atonement and Purification allows the Angel to reform their sinful ways at a cost of 200 piety to remove a random Sinful trait and replace it with its corresponding virtue. There is an option to change your mind once the trait is selected, at the cost of potentially becoming Proud and/or Cynical.

-Divine Blessing allows you to request a boon from the Heavens if you have no Sinful traits for 100 piety. This will randomly improve one of four areas:

• Appearance: Removes negative physical appearance traits such as Ugly, Harelip etc, and improves the character's appearance, up to Attractive (plus Bombshell if applicable)
• Intelligence: Removes negative intellectual traits (Slow, Imbecile), boosts normal characters to Quick, and Quick to Genius.
• Strength: Removes Weak, makes normal characters Strong.
• Education: Increases your current Education trait by one category (i.e. 1 to 2, 2 to 3, or 3 to 4) if less than 4.

Both Divine Blessing and Atonement/Purification have a 6 month cooldown, but otherwise can be reused freely (provided there is anything eligible for them to remove/improve).

 

 

[ngppgn]

Hm, now that's interesting. I wonder if I can breed a descendant that is at once a succubus and an angel.

[whateverdontcare]

6 hours ago, ngppgn said:

Hm, now that's interesting. I wonder if I can breed a descendant that is at once a succubus and an angel.

No, the two traits are opposites, and can't be had at the same time.

[Aliris]

6 hours ago, ngppgn said:

Hm, now that's interesting. I wonder if I can breed a descendant that is at once a succubus and an angel.

The answer would be no, as the various demonic traits and angel are defined as opposites in Dark World Fantasy (meaning you can't have both at the same time on one character, like weak/strong, ugly/attractive, etc).

 

That said, you could have a Lilithist religion form, and later have an angelic heir inherit, and be an Angel that follows Lilith's religion and is her divine champion. You just wouldn't be able to join the Lilith's Own society, even still (as Angels are always blocked from joining).

 

And at some point I might work up some stuff about Fallen Angels or the like, but that's a few projects down the road yet.

[VincentVD]

The beauty blessing can repeat pointlessly for males, pretty sure due to bombshell being required for it to no longer be an option.

[RisenAbove]

having a bug where converting to the catholic variant of the heresies causes me to become fraticelli. similar issues for the Muslim variation. is this a common bug and is there a fix for it?

[Aliris]

3 hours ago, RisenAbove said:

having a bug where converting to the catholic variant of the heresies causes me to become fraticelli. similar issues for the Muslim variation. is this a common bug and is there a fix for it?

Did you convert via the event chain (i.e. the Cathedral Dream), or did you convert via another method such as your chaplain doing cultural research and going heretic or such?

 

If it's the latter, it's working as intended, as the Heresy isn't supposed to exist anywhere in the world until someone has the dream and journeys to the Cathedral (thus setting a global flag). The game doesn't differentiate between active and inactive heresies like that, so whenever it would pop up prior to the Cathedral/etc, there are events that convert those provinces and anyone in them from Lilithist to a randomly selected other Catholic heresy.

[Aliris]

6 hours ago, VincentVD said:

The beauty blessing can repeat pointlessly for males, pretty sure due to bombshell being required for it to no longer be an option.

I copied the logic for that from the DWF beautify option, but you're right in that it wasn't blocking males from repeatedly using it for no benefit. I've fixed the logic and it works now (for the next update.

 

If you want, you can replace the NAND block in that decision with the following (or simply not take the decision when you're already genius/strong/attractive and level 4 education) until then:

 

        AND = { 
                    NOT = { trait = bombshell }
                    is_female = yes 
                    }
                AND = {
                    is_female = no
                    trait = feminine
                    NOT = { trait = bombshell }
                    
                    }

 

[Aliris]

Posted a minor update, just a few bugfixes and tweaks to the angelic powers. Shouldn't break savegames, hotfix file available for the last version:

 

-Fixes the logic error with males and Divine Blessing

-Can no longer use Divine Conception if practical age is higher than 50

-Healing can now be correctly used on self as well as others, presently limited to court + self

-Adjusted the piety requirement for healing abilities to reflect the lowered cost

[krighaur]

I have a strange thing happening and I don't know from where it comes. 

 

I play with all DLC, DWF, DW extra, Beyond Heresy and the mercenary commander. I start with a shattered world.

 

My character is a woman from middle Ukraine, she is an angel (beyond heresy). She has a very long reign and is able to reform slave faith and pick feodal system. For the reformation of faith she chooses both gender equal and the option that allow to choose the heir amongst your relatives.

 

I have already 4 child, in order boy, girl, girl, boy who have inherited angel traits. The first one has cancer, and I am not entirely satisfied with the 3 others so I use angel ability to have an angel baby, who is a boy. When he is 7, my charcater is 70 years old and has severe injuries. I select the youngest boy has my successor.

This when the strange thing happens : my character dies and my latest sons inherit the throne. No problem, no revolt, but after some monthes I have a game over saying I lost all my possessions (I had 7 counties). I cannot investigate more because I have the game over screen, but I did not detect any special event (birth, death, war, revolt ... ) before the game over.

 

And it should not be a game over because in spite I have no child (7 years old) my older half brothers/sisters are eligible in the succession screen.

 

I have reloaded and the same things happens after few monthes. I have even removed injuries from my initial charater so she lives a bit longer, but when she dies, some monthes after her son takes her place, game over.

 

I suspect two things :

- Either the characteristics I picked for my reformed religion (genders equal, and select the hair) are badly implemented with a shattered world

- or, the immaculate born child is not completely recognized as a normal possible heir. Although it if it the source of the problem I don't understand why he was able to become the new king.

[Aliris]

I haven't had any issues with having divine conception heirs taking over, but I haven't tried the pagan reformation heir designation system yet either.

 

When you reload your save, who does it say your new heir is, and what dynasty does it say that character is?

 

My suspicion is something weird is happening between the heir designation and shattered world stuff somehow, but I don't have any ida what or why offhand.

[krighaur]

1 hour ago, Aliris said:

I haven't had any issues with having divine conception heirs taking over, but I haven't tried the pagan reformation heir designation system yet either.

 

When you reload your save, who does it say your new heir is, and what dynasty does it say that character is?

 

My suspicion is something weird is happening between the heir designation and shattered world stuff somehow, but I don't have any ida what or why offhand.

 

When I reload my heir is my elder half sister (half sister because the new king has no father). We are both from the same dynasty and I have no warning that I may have a issue if I die.  And anyway I don't die !

 

I suspect the same thing as you. I don't think it comes from your mod, I just wanted to share in case someone experienced the same thing.

[gorjak]

Great to see angels have been made more interesting to play.

 

I noticed in the OP that there are plans to add Lilithian heresies for the Judaism and the Indian religions. Have you also considered a Lilithian variant for Zoroastrianism? The Judeo-Christian concept of angels and Heaven/Hell originated from Zoroastrianism after all, and monotheism only really became solidified in the Jewish faith after their Exile and contact with the similarly firmly monotheistic Zoroastrians. A feminine Ahriman and Aka Manah (especially Aka Manah, as an explicit demon of lust) could quite comfortably slide into the roles of the Mother Goddess and Lilith in a Lilithian Zoroastrian heresy, I think, while (in keeping with Zoroastrianism's dualistic cosmology) the masculine Ohrmazd could be turned into a malevolent Demiurge-like figure supported by Mithra, Sraosha and Apam Napat.

[Aliris]

1 hour ago, gorjak said:

Great to see angels have been made more interesting to play.

 

I noticed in the OP that there are plans to add Lilithian heresies for the Judaism and the Indian religions. Have you also considered a Lilithian variant for Zoroastrianism? The Judeo-Christian concept of angels and Heaven/Hell originated from Zoroastrianism after all, and monotheism only really became solidified in the Jewish faith after their Exile and contact with the similarly firmly monotheistic Zoroastrians. A feminine Ahriman and Aka Manah (especially Aka Manah, as an explicit demon of lust) could quite comfortably slide into the roles of the Mother Goddess and Lilith in a Lilithian Zoroastrian heresy, I think, while (in keeping with Zoroastrianism's dualistic cosmology) the masculine Ohrmazd could be turned into a malevolent Demiurge-like figure supported by Mithra, Sraosha and Apam Napat.

I don't have any definite plans, just vague ideas. If you have some suggestions, or even better, wanted to write up some ideas, I could certainly see about incorporating them.

[gorjak]

5 hours ago, Aliris said:

I don't have any definite plans, just vague ideas. If you have some suggestions, or even better, wanted to write up some ideas, I could certainly see about incorporating them.

Alright, I've gone and tried my hand at writing up the localisation for a Lilithian Zoroastrian heresy, as well as a bit of religion and decision coding (there's a decision to create a religious head like the Christian heresies, but I wasn't able to code an actual title for said head). Feel free to fix and modify it however you see fit, I know at a minimum the religion will need a change of color.

 

A quick rundown of the terms I used for the 'Akamanic' priestly titles and scripture:

 

Spoiler

• Mobedyar: Title of a priestess in modern-day Zoroastrianism. In its heyday, the religion did not have female clergy, just male Mobads/Herbads/Dasturs.
• Great Karapan: Karapan was the Avestan term for non-Zoroastrian clerics, particularly those of pre-Zoroastrian Iranian religions IIRC. The Middle Persian translation would be karb.
• Yasna Sasnanghaiti: My attempt at translating 'Worship in Six Chapters' into Avestan. Probably mangled, I can't claim to be an expert on the language.

 

lilithzoro.rar

[Aliris]

11 hours ago, gorjak said:

Alright, I've gone and tried my hand at writing up the localisation for a Lilithian Zoroastrian heresy, as well as a bit of religion and decision coding (there's a decision to create a religious head like the Christian heresies, but I wasn't able to code an actual title for said head). Feel free to fix and modify it however you see fit, I know at a minimum the religion will need a change of color.

 

A quick rundown of the terms I used for the 'Akamanic' priestly titles and scripture:

 

  Hide contents

• Mobedyar: Title of a priestess in modern-day Zoroastrianism. In its heyday, the religion did not have female clergy, just male Mobads/Herbads/Dasturs.
• Great Karapan: Karapan was the Avestan term for non-Zoroastrian clerics, particularly those of pre-Zoroastrian Iranian religions IIRC. The Middle Persian translation would be karb.
• Yasna Sasnanghaiti: My attempt at translating 'Worship in Six Chapters' into Avestan. Probably mangled, I can't claim to be an expert on the language.

 

lilithzoro.rar

I wouldn't worry too much about exact translations, close is good enough for a game. If anyone knows something better and wants to get pedantic about it, I'm sure we can always adjust it later.

[figandsalt]

I want to report some bugs.

 

First, the decision 'recruit holy man' should recruit female instead of defaulted male character after adopting lilithu cause only female could become bishop. Since I cannot get any bishop with high learning in my reign, I could only make do with the random generated temple owners. The consequence is I have to nominate court chaplain with 9 or 10 learning, which would be very inefficient in proselytizing, and also trigger negative events like zealots uprising. 

 

Also a suggestion, I haven't found any holy order for lilithu religion for now, while I could really use some. I hope a holy order with some sex features, like the Sacred Band of Thebes. Just a thought.

[figandsalt]

One more thing, could anyone give me some suggesting about how to make the lilithu heresy orthodoxy? I used to play as Catholic and greek orthodox all the time and have no experience playing as a heresy. Currently I own the entire de jure of Africa Kingdom(half Algeria + Tunis + Libya) but it would be extremely dangerous to expand north. I tried declaring holy war to Kingdom of Sicily once and the 3/4 Catholic nations backed together against me. I am the only nation with lilithu for now and the religious authority is always below 30. How could I proselytize lilithu to other countries and finally become orthodoxy?

[Aliris]

8 hours ago, figandsalt said:

I want to report some bugs.

 

First, the decision 'recruit holy man' should recruit female instead of defaulted male character after adopting lilithu cause only female could become bishop. Since I cannot get any bishop with high learning in my reign, I could only make do with the random generated temple owners. The consequence is I have to nominate court chaplain with 9 or 10 learning, which would be very inefficient in proselytizing, and also trigger negative events like zealots uprising. 

 

Also a suggestion, I haven't found any holy order for lilithu religion for now, while I could really use some. I hope a holy order with some sex features, like the Sacred Band of Thebes. Just a thought.

That decision is a hardcoded CK2 game decision. I try my best to avoid overriding any core content as that causes a number of issues down the line. In this case I suggest using present debutante, or recruiting a succubus directly, instead.

 

Presently there aren't any Holy Orders for them until and unless you overthrow the parent religion.

[Aliris]

8 hours ago, figandsalt said:

One more thing, could anyone give me some suggesting about how to make the lilithu heresy orthodoxy? I used to play as Catholic and greek orthodox all the time and have no experience playing as a heresy. Currently I own the entire de jure of Africa Kingdom(half Algeria + Tunis + Libya) but it would be extremely dangerous to expand north. I tried declaring holy war to Kingdom of Sicily once and the 3/4 Catholic nations backed together against me. I am the only nation with lilithu for now and the religious authority is always below 30. How could I proselytize lilithu to other countries and finally become orthodoxy?

The key to supplanting your parent religion is all about religious authority - boosting yours, reducing theirs. Taking the holy sites will do a lot towards this, which is why it can be a lot more difficult to do it if you aren't near any of the holy sites for your religion (but this is true for just about any religion if you're not one of the three main ones).

 

One thing you can do is use non-religious CBs to try and take the Holy Sites (meaning you won't have half the Catholic world interfering immediately), as those are a +/- 10 swing each. Rome especially is big since once you take it and form the Lilitu Papacy, you'll get bonuses for the Ardat Lili's stats the way Catholics do for the Pope's. 

 

It can also help to wait until their armies are busy, such as fighting a crusade somewhere else, and then sneak in and nab Rome/Santiago/Canterbury for instance, as all 3 of those are coastal. Cologne is a little trickier being well inland, but once the RA swings far enough in your favor, Catholicism will begin to explode in heresy all on its own, making things much easier.

 

Another tactic is to marry off your excess kids into various courts around the world, though this isn't so great when religious authority is low/catholicism's is high. You can also try to kidnap the heirs of other rulers and educate them in your faith, in hopes they'll go back and be Lilithian.

[whateverdontcare]

7 hours ago, Aliris said:

The key to supplanting your parent religion is all about religious authority - boosting yours, reducing theirs. Taking the holy sites will do a lot towards this, which is why it can be a lot more difficult to do it if you aren't near any of the holy sites for your religion (but this is true for just about any religion if you're not one of the three main ones).

 

One thing you can do is use non-religious CBs to try and take the Holy Sites (meaning you won't have half the Catholic world interfering immediately), as those are a +/- 10 swing each. Rome especially is big since once you take it and form the Lilitu Papacy, you'll get bonuses for the Ardat Lili's stats the way Catholics do for the Pope's. 

 

It can also help to wait until their armies are busy, such as fighting a crusade somewhere else, and then sneak in and nab Rome/Santiago/Canterbury for instance, as all 3 of those are coastal. Cologne is a little trickier being well inland, but once the RA swings far enough in your favor, Catholicism will begin to explode in heresy all on its own, making things much easier.

 

Another tactic is to marry off your excess kids into various courts around the world, though this isn't so great when religious authority is low/catholicism's is high. You can also try to kidnap the heirs of other rulers and educate them in your faith, in hopes they'll go back and be Lilithian.

Well, to be specific it isn't about moral authority, it's about total provinces following your religion. Moral authority certainly helps with that, as the higher yours is relative to the original one the easier converting things is, but the real focus is province conversion.

 

One good trick I've done in a similar heresy situation was try and convert pagans. It's not the easiest thing to do, but just sending a court chaplain over to Scandinavia or the steppe a bunch of times has a decent chance of converting the king and their capital county, and from there that king will do a whole bunch of conversions for you, eventually really helping you overtake your original religion if expanding and conquering them is going to be too difficult.