gregathit Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 While undoubtedly there will be be DLC I think it will most likely be different time periods similar to what they did with the first Rome TW game. Perhaps they will even make one in which the empire is split and warring with one another. I seriously doubt that any new factions will be made playable in the vanilla game as DLC. Even if they do they won't bother with more than a handful of factions. Modders have cracked open every single TW game and jimmy rigged each and every faction as playable "Without" a person having to buy any DLC. True in many cases they were mostly generic factions that had no special units or buildings, but hey, that also can be modded in without too much effort once the fan made editor comes out. TW modders are pretty damn smart and have managed to do things that even creative assembly thought were not possible.
windpl Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 At some point few moders actually joined CA I believe, and Rome didn't have any DLC's it had addon Yes I do distinction between DLC's and Addon's ;>
gregathit Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Yea, Jack Lusted was a modder over at the twcenter website that was hired by creative assembly. I "think" there was one other guy too but I don't remember his name. I haven't been very active over at twcenter for the last couple of years. DLC stands for "downloadable content" so that covers pretty much anything that requires the base game, be it an expansion or just units. Unless it is a standalone game that does not require the base game it is still a DLC. Either way it makes zero difference if unit packs or even faction packs are going to be released, as modders can unlock factions and make them playable no matter what. At least this has proved true for each and every single game TW game to date.
ChancellorKremlin Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Dem cataphracts. ♥ I know, I love them too. The Roman Empire really did just become that much more awesome in its later years when it started adopting some of the Persian armour and tactics. Yea, Jack Lusted was a modder over at the twcenter website that was hired by creative assembly. I "think" there was one other guy too but I don't remember his name. I haven't been very active over at twcenter for the last couple of years. DLC stands for "downloadable content" so that covers pretty much anything that requires the base game, be it an expansion or just units. Unless it is a standalone game that does not require the base game it is still a DLC. Either way it makes zero difference if unit packs or even faction packs are going to be released, as modders can unlock factions and make them playable no matter what. At least this has proved true for each and every single game TW game to date. I think you're missing the point here, Greg. The problem with DLC based factions would be, you'd still have to download the DLC if the "mod" used any of its resources. So say they release DLC's of the Greek factions, maybe a few steppe ones, the odd couple of tribes in Britannia, so on. The "normal" game would probably just have rebels in those areas with a few unique units, but you'll only access the factions "proper" with all teh cools buildings, units, agents, etc - with the DLC. Sure, modders will eventually create new factions, units, agents and buildings and even the factions themselves with base game resources, but if there is anything in the DLC that isn't in the base game, you'll never be able to access that unless you download it. And if you do, your're doing it illegally, just in the same way that mods that take resources from the FNV dlc's but don't require them, also get taken down.
gregathit Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Actually if you go back and read my posts there CK, you will see that I have NOT missed anything at all. What I stated was that each and every faction would most probably be made playable (all past games have been modded to allow this) and I even stated that they might be generic with few customizations or have lots of placeholders. Opening up a game and making a non-playable faction into a playable one using the resources that come with the vanilla game is perfectly LEGAL and there are a shitload of mods that do exactly that over at the TWcenter. Also if you had really read my posts you would have realized that I was clearly talking about the vanilla game and not DLC (hint re-read post 24). I don't really think you understand how modding works with regards to what I am talking about and the TW games. To make factions that are not playable into ones that are would NOT require anyone to download anything but some script files that may be loose or included in a .pack file (or whatever new compression system they use this go around). Uploading tweaked script files has NEVER been frowned on by Creative Assembly from all the way back to Shogun. Please stop implying that I am saying anything EXCEPT what I actually stated. And thank you not to start shouting pirate BS at me. I am well aware of what is acceptable and what is not, both here and over at the TWcenter, so spare me the lecture there mom.
ChancellorKremlin Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Actually if you go back and read my posts there CK, you will see that I have NOT missed anything at all. What I stated was that each and every faction would most probably be made playable (all past games have been modded to allow this) and I even stated that they might be generic with few customizations or have lots of placeholders. Opening up a game and making a non-playable faction into a playable one using the resources that come with the vanilla game is perfectly LEGAL and there are a shitload of mods that do exactly that over at the TWcenter. Also if you had really read my posts you would have realized that I was clearly talking about the vanilla game and not DLC (hint re-read post 24). I don't really think you understand how modding works with regards to what I am talking about and the TW games. To make factions that are not playable into ones that are would NOT require anyone to download anything but some script files that may be loose or included in a .pack file (or whatever new compression system they use this go around). Uploading tweaked script files has NEVER been frowned on by Creative Assembly from all the way back to Shogun. Please stop implying that I am saying anything EXCEPT what I actually stated. And thank you not to start shouting pirate BS at me. I am well aware of what is acceptable and what is not, both here and over at the TWcenter, so spare me the lecture there mom. WTF? I'm not sure if you've misread what I've written, take it wrongly, or there has been some sort of miscommunication here, and if it has, its pretty bad, but your tone is just all over the place there. Before I continue, let me say a few things: A ) I'm not presuming to be lecturing you about piracy. B )I wasn't taking some sort of shot at you personally for "missing" anything, I just think people have been saying certain things and you've haven't understood what they mean, myself included, and I'll illustrate why below. C ) The vanilla game is obviously moddable to the fullest possible extent allowed by the tools release. No arguments there. D ) I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I know more about RTW modding than you give me credit for, and I resent the insinuation I don't know what I'm talking about. Its uncalled for and unnecessary to this discussion. E ) I'm not implying anything, so stop taking this personally. With that out of the way - obviously "non-playable" factions will eventually be made playable. I think this is where the confusion is coming from. The point PL and myself are making isn't that you won't be able to play with certain factions already in the vanilla game in time, its that any factions released via DLC's t will be just that, DLC dependent. And that would be unfortunate. What I want to know is - of those 117 factions, are they all included in the vanilla game? Because if say, five of those are part of the "Greek cultures DLC" - then they're not - and that's what PL and I are worried about, and the whole point we're making. The point were making isn't it won't just be a case of opening up export_descr_factions and putting the factions under the non_playable header in the playable one. Do you see what we're getting at? To conclude, let me make my point very clear. I know tweaking a file isn't piracy, I know editing something included in the game (modding) isn't piracy. What is piracy is taking a resource from the DLC, and then importing it into a vanilla only mod, thus making the DLC no longer necessary. Thus why I gave the FNV Nexus example. So... how about you take those shields down?
gregathit Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Go back and re-read your post and then re-read mine. You will find that I responded in kind. When you quote someone, one can only assume you are talking directly to the person quoted. You never stated you were switching gears, so how can I assume anything like that? So let's clear the air: 1. I never talked about any form of piracy either of the vanilla game, nor possible future dlc. 2. I merely clarified that I was speaking of modders "unlocking" (this not really the best term here but if you do understand how shogun was made then you understand my meaning) the vanilla game unplayable factions through opening the files and hex editing as necessary. 3. What "DLC" is and what it could contain was a sideshow distraction and my only point was to define it and clarify I was not talking about it. If you did not "intend" to be condescending and or patronizing then I accept that and will happily drop the discussion. However, what you said in your previous post did take shots, was offensive and most definitely jumped to the conclusion of me advocating piracy. I can't tell what you "meant", I can only go off of what you actually said. Example: CK: - I think you're missing the point here, Greg. The problem with DLC based factions would be, you'd still have to download the DLC if the "mod" used any of its resources. then you said: - I wasn't taking some sort of shot at you personally for "missing" anything, I just think people have been saying certain things and you've haven't understood what they mean, myself included, and I'll illustrate why below. Clearly you stated "you're missing the point here, Greg"..........right? That implies a personal statement which you then state was not meant to be personal? Heck you said my freaking name in the same sentence! How else can a fella take it? If you resent me questioning your understanding of TW game modding then how do you think I feel about you questioning mine? You may not think you did, but it clearly came off that way to me. You continue to do it in your next post. Are you aware that ALL Shogun factions were made PLAYABLE without needing any DLC? Sure it didn't have the special units or buildings the DLC contained, but that is not the point and never was. Each TW game has gotten a little bit more complex to edit anything and again if you are into modding the latest version of shogun then you are already aware of this. There is no txt file to edit and hasn't been since Empire. Now to settle this once and for all, I am pretty sure you did not mean to come off sounding like a mom (or dad for that matter) giving a lecture to a wayward child, but that is what you did do. I probably should have done the whole "WTF thing" back at you instead of responding in kind. If you do understand modding of current (and even past) TW games then you do (or should) understand what I am talking about is merely using tools to breach the resource files, extract and interpolate the faction playability scripts, as well as any others that would be needed to make a non playable faction as playable. Yes, it will likely have missing items for buildings and such, probably using only generic units as well, but some folks just don't care about that sort of thing. Heck fire, there are mods to allow the rebels to be playable for most of the TW games! Based on the announced factions, I will probably only stick to the Romans myself until CA either makes the Greeks playable or some modder does. Cheers, Greg
ChancellorKremlin Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 If you did not "intend" to be condescending and or patronizing then I accept that and will happily drop the discussion. However, what you said in your previous post did take shots, was offensive and most definitely jumped to the conclusion of me advocating piracy. I can't tell what you "meant", I can only go off of what you actually said. Sorry Greg, I just don't see it that way, and I don't think any reasonable level headed person reading this thread will either. If that's how you think, then that's most unfortunate that you even think I would address you in that fashion. Example: CK: - I think you're missing the point here, Greg. The problem with DLC based factions would be, you'd still have to download the DLC if the "mod" used any of its resources. then you said: - I wasn't taking some sort of shot at you personally for "missing" anything, I just think people have been saying certain things and you've haven't understood what they mean, myself included, and I'll illustrate why below. Clearly you stated "you're missing the point here, Greg"..........right? That implies a personal statement which you then state was not meant to be personal? Heck you said my freaking name in the same sentence! How else can a fella take it? You realise I can call you by name and point out where I think a misunderstanding is occurring and simultaneously *not* mean for you to take it personally? I'm addressing YOU, I'm not calling you out. Jeez, relax man. If you resent me questioning your understanding of TW game modding then how do you think I feel about you questioning mine? You may not think you did, but it clearly came off that way to me. You continue to do it in your next post. That's the thing, I wasn't questioning your understanding of the game. At no point did I say "YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT WORKS!" which was more akin to what you said to me. I merely said "I think you're missing the point" - that implies a misunderstanding, not me calling you out on your knowledge (or perceived lack thereof) of it. Again, you're getting needlessly defensive over this. Are you aware that ALL Shogun factions were made PLAYABLE without needing any DLC? Sure it didn't have the special units or buildings the DLC contained, but that is not the point and never was. And this is what it boils down to - you're still not getting it. I've already explained in the previous post I'm well aware of that, and I have no doubt it will happen. There is no txt file to edit and hasn't been since Empire. It was an example that I'm aware how easy it has been in TW modding to simply make "unplayable" factions "playable". I'm not talking about vanilla factions here, I'm talking about DLC ones. I always have been. Now to settle this once and for all, I am pretty sure you did not mean to come off sounding like a mom (or dad for that matter) giving a lecture to a wayward child, but that is what you did do. No, that's how you're choosing to see it. Heck fire, there are mods to allow the rebels to be playable for most of the TW games! Based on the announced factions, I will probably only stick to the Romans myself until CA either makes the Greeks playable or some modder does. Cheers, Greg And that's the tragedy of this back and forth - I don't really care. Like at all. I couldn't give a tiny flying fuck if factions are DLC playable or not, or if Greeks, Trojans or Han Chinese get included. I'm not that big on the DLC angle anyway. I feel like I've been dragged into an argument I'm not even that fussed about to explain a point, and then had shit thrown in my face for no apparent reason other than you thinking I'm somehow singling you out for criticism. I don't know what's worse, the utter waste of time, or that you actually thought for a minute (and continue to think) I'd address you so disrespectfully. Count me out of this mess.
FallenWarrior Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Latest offer from Steam, is that if you pre-purchase the game you'll get the Greek States Culture Pack. Currently the pre-purchase price is at 54.99€
gregathit Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Sorry Greg, I just don't see it that way, and I don't think any reasonable level headed person reading this thread will either. If that's how you think, then that's most unfortunate that you even think I would address you in that fashion. Wait....so now I am unreasonable and not level headed? I thought you were not intending to insult me here...... This is not about intentions, as I plainly don't think you meant to be rude, but what and how you said it did tweak my nipples a bit. You realise I can call you by name and point out where I think a misunderstanding is occurring and simultaneously *not* mean for you to take it personally? I'm addressing YOU, I'm not calling you out. Jeez, relax man. Correcting something I never stated or implied is annoying to me. Perhaps it doesn't bother you, but I don't much care for it. You could have asked for clarification on what I was talking about if you felt I was implying something strange instead posting what I interpreted as a lecture. That's the thing, I wasn't questioning your understanding of the game. At no point did I say "YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT WORKS!" which was more akin to what you said to me. I merely said "I think you're missing the point" - that implies a misunderstanding, not me calling you out on your knowledge (or perceived lack thereof) of it. Again, you're getting needlessly defensive over this. Post 29 does imply I didn't understand modding. Now if you didn't mean it that way then fine, but when the paragraph starts out with my name then it is a safe assumption you are in fact talking to me. And this is what it boils down to - you're still not getting it. I've already explained in the previous post I'm well aware of that, and I have no doubt it will happen. It was an example that I'm aware how easy it has been in TW modding to simply make "unplayable" factions "playable". I'm not talking about vanilla factions here, I'm talking about DLC ones. I always have been. I "get it" just fine. My irritation is simply that what I stated in post 24 made no mention of DLC or anything along those lines and I don't know why it even came up. That is the crux of the entire issue to me. I was not talking about circumventing the DLC and I don't appreciate it being implied that I was. If that was not your intention then all is well and I am happy to shake hands and walk away. I feel like I've been dragged into an argument I'm not even that fussed about to explain a point, and then had shit thrown in my face for no apparent reason other than you thinking I'm somehow singling you out for criticism. I didn't drag you into anything my good man. I responded to a post I interpreted as condescending. I did not think you meant it that way, but my intentions detection antennae has never worked, so I am left with dealing with things as I see them. I feel like you threw poo at me first.....so being a good little monkey, I threw some back. I was not mad then and am not now.
windpl Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 I'm sad. <------------------ Seen price of RTW2 collector edition. Seems that wood is extremely expensive this days.
nonusnomeni Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 I'm sad. <------------------ Seen price of RTW2 collector edition. Seams that wood is extremely expensive this days. i am shocked and i am shocked by difference in prices in different country's WTF???
windpl Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 I'm sad. <------------------ Seen price of RTW2 collector edition. Seams that wood is extremely expensive this days. i am shocked and i am shocked by difference in prices in different country's WTF??? Don't even mention that, or I will move to Russia
Astaroth-Lite Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 I'm sad. <------------------ Seen price of RTW2 collector edition. Seams[sic] that wood is extremely expensive this days. Wood has always been expensive. Why else do you think people used to make houses out of straw and mud?
gregathit Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Does anyone feel that September can't come fast enough?????
leddis3 Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Argh, published by SEGA. I really don't want to give money to them. Principles or fun? Damnit.
Astaroth-Lite Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Well, aren't you still just a barrel of sunshine. Yes, Sega owns the Creative Assembly and have for a fairly long time now. Another fun fact, Sega does some good stuff on their own too. But what the hell, I'm feeling sporting; why are you so butthurt about this, Leddis?
leddis3 Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Well, aren't you still just a barrel of sunshine. Yes, Sega owns the Creative Assembly and have for a fairly long time now. Another fun fact, Sega does some good stuff on their own too. But what the hell, I'm feeling sporting; why are you so butthurt about this, Leddis? I'm extremely upset with them for dicking around the west with regard to Phantasy Star Online 2, and vowed to not give them a penny till they release it over here.
Astaroth-Lite Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 I'm upset too, but we don't really know why there is a holdup on PSO2. The whole thing hasn't been handled that well, truth be told; but at least the english website is still up so we can assume that its still being ported over. It would have been so much easier if they just did a worldwide simultaneous release. I assume what is taking them so long is trying to keep up with all the new content being made; or I hope that's what is the holdup. Either way, if it makes you feel any better, money going toward Rome 2 is going to Sega of Europe before it goes to Sega-Sammy holdings.
leddis3 Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 I'm upset too, but we don't really know why there is a holdup on PSO2. The whole thing hasn't been handled that well, truth be told; but at least the english website is still up so we can assume that its still being ported over. It would have been so much easier if they just did a worldwide simultaneous release. I assume what is taking them so long is trying to keep up with all the new content being made; or I hope that's what is the holdup. Either way, if it makes you feel any better, money going toward Rome 2 is going to Sega of Europe before it goes to Sega-Sammy holdings. Yeah I keep waiting and hoping. I'm just noting that this is going to be a wrinkle in my little self-righteous crusade due to my weak will. Better be worth it!
windpl Posted June 20, 2013 Posted June 20, 2013 I'm sad. <------------------ Seen price of RTW2 collector edition. Seams[sic] that wood is extremely expensive this days. Wood has always been expensive. Why else do you think people used to make houses out of straw and mud? Oh come on, I'm poor with spelling Does anyone feel that September can't come fast enough????? I don't, I just want damn game nauo! And sega isn't that bad, I own everything that has TW brand(games/dlc), if sega was EA I would probably spend fortune on that.
Astaroth-Lite Posted June 20, 2013 Posted June 20, 2013 I always have to throw in a [sic] when I can.
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