? The Selachii - Shark Race

NightroModzz · December 1, 2016

Finished

https://gyazo.com/beb137c98c547e6ab796e7898cbd8c65

https://gyazo.com/c9963887bdafedc8fc8a044d529d3a0a

https://gyazo.com/c3dbbc146933daa5fa8ae4db3729a8bc

*Blaze69* · December 1, 2016

Finished

https://gyazo.com/beb137c98c547e6ab796e7898cbd8c65

https://gyazo.com/c9963887bdafedc8fc8a044d529d3a0a

https://gyazo.com/c3dbbc146933daa5fa8ae4db3729a8bc

Okay, that looks awesome. Thank you very much! :lol:

I'll start playing with it. I'll probably have to ask BD for help in getting it UV'ed and rigged and working ingame, but as soon as all that is done, I'll update the mod with the new feet and skeleton.

Taven · December 1, 2016

Just one thing....how are these feet going to fit with armors/clothing? Will the stuff worn need new meshes for sharkmer specifically?

*Blaze69* · December 1, 2016

Just one thing....how are these feet going to fit with armors/clothing? Will the stuff worn need new meshes for sharkmer specifically?

Yeah, well, they would work just like BadDog's digitigrade feet. Meaning, you have to choose between digitigrade and plantigrade skeletons.

The digitigrade skeleton means the feet look the way they are supposed to and the Sharkmer have a proper digitigrade stance (as good as it can be achieved with skeleton edits), but regular/human footwear will be distorted and stretched, so yeah, Sharkmer-specific gear would be needed. That last part can be solved by hijacking the Default Race armor addons and using them to assigning all footwear to show just bare Sharkmer feet when worn, just like in BD's Compleat Khajiit/Yiffy Age does. This would mean any custom races set up with Default Race as their armor race reference would have messed up footgear, but I think it's worth that tradeoff.

After all, if you are digitigrade, you can't wear the same stuff plantigrades do, so it makes sense for Sharkmer to either be always barefoot or to only wear specifically-made gear. I would just be allowing the extra armor rating and the full-body-armor perk requirements to work without having to see your character with distorted blobs for feet. If/when BadDog or someone else creates boots/shinguards or something like that for BD's own feet, then tweaking them for use with Sharkmer should be easy, so there's that.

An optional plantigrade skeleton would restore the default stance and would mean regular footwear works as intended, and the beast feet could still be kept, but of course they wouldn't look the way they are supposed to and there would probably be some bugs like the ankle fin clipping into the ground.

Basically, if you like the digitigrade feet/stance, you use the default digitigrade skeleton, but I will probably also offer a plantigrade skeleton as an optional download for those that prefer to have the option to use footwear and don't mind having some bugs when barefoot.

malbolzcha · December 1, 2016

Taven · December 2, 2016

Just one thing....how are these feet going to fit with armors/clothing? Will the stuff worn need new meshes for sharkmer specifically?

Yeah, well, they would work just like BadDog's digitigrade feet. Meaning, you have to choose between digitigrade and plantigrade skeletons.

The digitigrade skeleton means the feet look the way they are supposed to and the Sharkmer have a proper digitigrade stance (as good as it can be achieved with skeleton edits), but regular/human footwear will be distorted and stretched, so yeah, Sharkmer-specific gear would be needed. That last part can be solved by hijacking the Default Race armor addons and using them to assigning all footwear to show just bare Sharkmer feet when worn, just like in BD's Compleat Khajiit/Yiffy Age does. This would mean any custom races set up with Default Race as their armor race reference would have messed up footgear, but I think it's worth that tradeoff.

After all, if you are digitigrade, you can't wear the same stuff plantigrades do, so it makes sense for Sharkmer to either be always barefoot or to only wear specifically-made gear. I would just be allowing the extra armor rating and the full-body-armor perk requirements to work without having to see your character with distorted blobs for feet. If/when BadDog or someone else creates boots/shinguards or something like that for BD's own feet, then tweaking them for use with Sharkmer should be easy, so there's that.

An optional plantigrade skeleton would restore the default stance and would mean regular footwear works as intended, and the beast feet could still be kept, but of course they wouldn't look the way they are supposed to and there would probably be some bugs like the ankle fin clipping into the ground.

Basically, if you like the digitigrade feet/stance, you use the default digitigrade skeleton, but I will probably also offer a plantigrade skeleton as an optional download for those that prefer to have the option to use footwear and don't mind having some bugs when barefoot.

Well..that's just the thing. New skeletons, or skeletons being changed in any way kinda scare me, because that usually means a race with a new skeleton gets their own animations aside from what everyone else does, and doesn't receive any new ones everyone else does(I think). Is there a way to make boots and such morph to fit a sharkmer's feet, much like how this mod does?

Kuroyami · December 2, 2016

Well..that's just the thing. New skeletons, or skeletons being changed in any way kinda scare me, because that usually means a race with a new skeleton gets their own animations aside from what everyone else does, and doesn't receive any new ones everyone else does(I think). Is there a way to make boots and such morph to fit a sharkmer's feet, much like how this mod does?

Skeletons in this game exist as a framework for animations(animations being directions for how the skeleton's bones will move), which does not mean a new skeleton(or rather an edited one) will need specific animations for it. Just like Yiffy Age, while someone could make animations to better fit with the digitigrade feet, it is not a requirement. You could indeed set up a race with a custom skeleton and custom animations, but that isn't exactly happening here.

As for the linked mod, that does it by having custom boot/shoe meshes for Argonians and Khajiits, likely with no Skeleton changes.

NightroModzz · December 2, 2016

The skeleton that bad dog uses is just a morphed skeleton, not necessarily a new one. This means that you keep any animations for it. But if it's morphed too much like the digitigrade one, it will just effect armor. At worst, the animations will not seem right or work as well. Like the foot position for an idle for example. New skeletons can be made, but you need some Havoc files and Maya or 3DS Max to do so.

*Blaze69* · December 2, 2016

Well..that's just the thing. New skeletons, or skeletons being changed in any way kinda scare me, because that usually means a race with a new skeleton gets their own animations aside from what everyone else does, and doesn't receive any new ones everyone else does(I think). Is there a way to make boots and such morph to fit a sharkmer's feet, much like how this mod does?

Skeletons in this game exist as a framework for animations(animations being directions for how the skeleton's bones will move), which does not mean a new skeleton(or rather an edited one) will need specific animations for it. Just like Yiffy Age, while someone could make animations to better fit with the digitigrade feet, it is not a requirement. You could indeed set up a race with a custom skeleton and custom animations, but that isn't exactly happening here.

As for the linked mod, that does it by having custom boot/shoe meshes for Argonians and Khajiits, likely with no Skeleton changes.

The skeleton that bad dog uses is just a morphed skeleton, not necessarily a new one. This means that you keep any animations for it. But if it's morphed too much like the digitigrade one, it will just effect armor. At worst, the animations will not seem right or work as well. Like the foot position for an idle for example. New skeletons can be made, but you need some Havoc files and Maya or 3DS Max to do so.

^This.

Basically what Kuroyami and Nightro said. BadDog's digitigrade skeleton is not "new", it's just a default Skyrim NPC skeleton with the leg/feet bones moved around so that the beast feet take up a digitigrade stance when used alongside the skeleton. You can check out how it works in Compleat Khajiit or Yiffy Age.

Most anims look okay-ish, though there are some quirks with the new placement like the feet clipping into each otehr in certain anims/poses and so on, but overall it's not that much of a problem. The only real problem is that any footwear made for the default/plantigrade skeleton lacks the proper shape to appear digitigrade, so they just show up as distorted and stretched blobs when worn by digitigrade characters. That's why a footgear replacer is needed, though in this case I would just make them invisible (by equipping bare Sharkmer feet when worn, effectively being "invisible"), mainly because there aren't any boots or gear made for BadDog's feet.

As you can see, this is for technical reasons, but IMO there is also an ingame/lore-friendly explanation: digitigrades can't wear plantigrade footgear, so Sharkmer can't wear human/humanoid boots. Also being aquatic, the less stuff you are wearing the better you move in the water, so they would be comfortable being barefoot or even straight up naked the whole time. Of course, this is just flavour text, but for some it may add to the experience. Plus, I think the point of the beast feet is lost if you can't see them 99% of the time and if you want to see them you have to run barefoot (game-mechanics-wise instead of just visually) and loose on the armor rating and the perks/bonuses that require you to wear full body armor.

Anyway, as I said I like to leave options available, and I even change Yiffy Age's races from plantigrade to digitigrade and viceversa as I see fit, so I'll just upload an option with the plantigrade skeleton and warn about the possible bugs when barefoot and that's it.

NightroModzz · December 3, 2016

Now that I take another look at that name, black darkness sounds kind of racist and weird.

Taven · December 3, 2016

Now that I take another look at that name, black darkness sounds kind of racist and weird.

Uhh...really..? I'm black and I don't find that racist at all.

*Blaze69* · December 3, 2016

Now that I take another look at that name, black darkness sounds kind of racist and weird.

Uhh...really..? I'm black and I don't find that racist at all.

Huh... Care to explain what happened here? I don't know what you two are talking about. Where does that "black darkness" thing come from?

NightroModzz · December 3, 2016

kuro = black and yami = darkness. Did some japanese self studying and 2 college courses.

Taven · December 3, 2016

kuro = black and yami = darkness. Did some japanese self studying and 2 college courses.

Oh, you're talking about one of these people's screen names...but I still don't find it racist, and it has nothing to do with this mod...why'd you try to point that out?

NightroModzz · December 3, 2016

kuro = black and yami = darkness. Did some japanese self studying and 2 college courses.

Oh, you're talking about one of these people's screen names...but I still don't find it racist, and it has nothing to do with this mod...why'd you try to point that out?

Just to point it out I guess. The name just doesn't make much sense to me. I think I contributed enough and so on in the future to make an unrelated comment. Is it really that troublesome?

*Blaze69* · December 3, 2016

kuro = black and yami = darkness. Did some japanese self studying and 2 college courses.

Oh, you're talking about one of these people's screen names...but I still don't find it racist, and it has nothing to do with this mod...why'd you try to point that out?

Just to point it out I guess. I think I contributed enough and so on in the future to make an unrelated comment. Is it really that troublesome?

Oh, I see it now. Huh, I guess it's not that much on a issue.

There is not much "on-topic" stuff to talk about right now. Progress on the mod is on hold at least until the feet are rigged and ported ingame, and BadDog has agreed to take care of it but will probably take a while. I'm also waiting to see what you can come up with for the heads, but again, take all the time you need. So nothing happening as of yet. As long as it doesn't go too far and is kept civil and all that stuff, I don't mind some off-topic talk.

And yeah, I think you've contributed more than enough to deserve a "Get out of Off-Topic Jail" card .

NightroModzz · December 3, 2016

I likely won't get to it until v1.1 and the human female is out. Then I will start working on the males after the sharkmer heads.

Kuroyami · December 3, 2016

kuro = black and yami = darkness. Did some japanese self studying and 2 college courses.

It's not the best example for several reasons(not considered too good of a game, etc), I know, but "Kuroyami" was a working title(or a planned one?) for Shadows of the Damned(a Suda51 game), so it's right as far as the language goes, I think. However, I didn't choose the name because of that game.

Anyway, most I could contribute would be random screenshots, even if I have done a bit of modding myself. Mostly just some texture edits for Skyrim, like making some custom main menu backgrounds with the "Alternative Menu" mod as a base.

*Blaze69* · December 3, 2016

Anyway, most I could contribute would be random screenshots, even if I have done a bit of modding myself. Mostly just some texture edits for Skyrim, like making some custom main menu backgrounds with the "Alternative Menu" mod as a base.

Any contribution is welcome as far as I'm concerned, even if it's just pics, so if you take some screenshots and then feel like sharing them or anything, feel free to do so. I'm also happy to hear about any kind of custom edits people may have made for this race, and even to integrate them into the mod if it's possible.

Also, now that we are dealing with this, someone in another thread asked if there was a version of this race that used retextured human/elven heads instead of the current beast/cartoony ones. I am not interested in making the Sharkmer any more human-like than they are, and the most I will do is to swap the current heads for edited Argonian ones when Nightro is done with that, but if someone wants to create the textures (and maybe meshes) required for the Sharkmer to have humanoid heads, feel free to do so; I will be happy to integrate them into the mod and offer them as an option.

NightroModzz · December 3, 2016

It's not the best example for several reasons(not considered too good of a game, etc), I know, but "Kuroyami" was a working title(or a planned one?) for Shadows of the Damned(a Suda51 game), so it's right as far as the language goes, I think. However, I didn't choose the name because of that game.

I looked it up. It's kurayami not kuroyami. kura meaning treasure house in a naming term. So somewhat similare to house of darkness. Some words or combinations can have more than one meaning though, but I don't think kuroyami is one of them.

NightroModzz · December 3, 2016

if someone wants to create the textures (and maybe meshes) required for the Sharkmer to have humanoid heads, feel free to do so; I will be happy to integrate them into the mod and offer them as an option.

I might do it if nobody else does by the time I start messing with my own models. Currently, I am not really all that familiar with texturing models yet, but have around 3 or more software that is capable of just painting around the model.

*Blaze69* · December 3, 2016

if someone wants to create the textures (and maybe meshes) required for the Sharkmer to have humanoid heads, feel free to do so; I will be happy to integrate them into the mod and offer them as an option.

I might do it if nobody else does by the time I start messing with my own models. Currently, I am not really all that familiar with texturing models yet, but have around 3 or more software that is capable of just painting around the model.

Oh, well, actually it wouldn't be that hard. You should be able get good results just by taking the Fair Skin Complexion head textures, pasting and blending the neck part of the Sharkmer skin seamlessly (and keeping the gills if possible), and then tweaking the rest of the head texture so that it matches the neck part but still keeps facial definition and detail around mouth/eyes/nose/etc.

I could probably come up with something that looks acceptable enough, but then again, I'm not particulary interested in human-headed Sharkmer, so I don't feel like doing it, at least not for now. If you do want to give it a try, I'm sure the result would be better than anything I could make right now, so by all means, I'll be happy to get it integrated :lol: .

NightroModzz · December 3, 2016

Oh, well, actually it wouldn't be that hard. You should be able get good results just by taking the Fair Skin Complexion head textures, pasting and blending the neck part of the Sharkmer skin seamlessly (and keeping the gills if possible), and then tweaking the rest of the head texture so that it matches the neck part but still keeps facial definition and detail around mouth/eyes/nose/etc.

I could probably come up with something that looks acceptable enough, but then again, I'm not particulary interested in human-headed Sharkmer, so I don't feel like doing it, at least not for now. If you do want to give it a try, I'm sure the result would be better than anything I could make right now, so by all means, I'll be happy to get it integrated .

oh lol. I guess I wasn't paying that much attention. I skipped a night of sleep. It's now been 24 hours since I last woke up. I was referring to the meshes I plan on making from the argonian heads. If a mesh is made with humanoid heads, then it would end up like that brown shark girl picture in the earlier posts.

*Blaze69* · December 3, 2016

oh lol. I guess I wasn't paying that much attention. I skipped a night of sleep. It's now been 24 hours since I last woke up. I was referring to the meshes I plan on making for the argonian heads. If a mesh is made with humanoid heads, then it would end up like that brown shark girl picture in the earlier posts.

Yeah, that is exactly why I'm not really interested in doing it. Sorry, but I don't really like it.

I prefer my beast races to be, well, beasts, rather than just reskinned humans with extra appendages like tails or whatever. I'll take a regular Suthay Khajiit (aka the ones in Skyrim, aka the default furries) or a Lykaios over a Dagi-Raht or an Ohmes-Raht any time, and same applies to any other anthro races, Sharkmer included (though if it's between human-headed beast races and regular humans, then I prefer the former).

Someone else may like that kind of characters, though, and that's why I said I would be happy to integrate it as an option for the mod if someone were to create it (but not me).

If you don't mind taking a shot at making textures for the new heads, then that's great. I'll probably just do that "blending" thing but with Argonian head textures as a base, so any help/alternative on that part will be more than welcome.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Blaze69

NightroModzz · December 4, 2016

I'm curious as to who is downloading the feet mesh? There are 7 downloads. Are you downloading it multiple times after messing with it as you said or are other people planning to use it for something?

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? The Selachii - Shark Race

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