SexTec (SexLab, SexOut, etc.) - Container thread

[VonHelton]

So what's the word from the silverlock people?

[RUD3DUD3]

So what's the word from the silverlock people?

nothing last post on F4se thread on bethesda's new community was on October 12 so figure everything else.

[garg]

Well I'm content with my own modified Crazy6987 mod ATM I just wish I had more animations to play with!

[pipdude]

 

 

 

I wasn't thinking THAT rudimentary!

 

A list of tools and examples of what patterns match up with what, etc. Maybe what finding an example hook looks like.

 

It would be some work to detail I'm sure. I'm just thinking that it's a tough model we have where 50% of the mods people want in new games rely on two people.

 

 

The only advice I can give is: get Visual Studio 2015 Express, get the 7zip of SKSE, create your project, convert all the sources to V12, and start digging into it.

 

 

Hm. I've done most of that to make dll mods. Seems to be only the tip of the iceberg.

[Lurker001]

This may be a stupid question that ahs been answered already. If so, I apologize...

Is there any word on how many more patches/updates that Bethesda is planning for Fallout 4? As I understand it, that is a major stumbling block for F4SE development....

 

[DexesTTP]

This may be a stupid question that ahs been answered already. If so, I apologize...

 

Is there any word on how many more patches/updates that Bethesda is planning for Fallout 4? As I understand it, that is a major stumbling block for F4SE development....

 

No word yet. The first reason is that there still is bugs they can fix, so they don't want to say "we won't fix them" very loud. The second reason is that there's still FO4 VR coming out beginning of 2017, and we don't know if it will be a patch to FO4 (probable) or a totally different game (also possible). In the first case then there will be updates for a while again.

[Lurker001]

 

This may be a stupid question that ahs been answered already. If so, I apologize...

 

Is there any word on how many more patches/updates that Bethesda is planning for Fallout 4? As I understand it, that is a major stumbling block for F4SE development....

 

No word yet. The first reason is that there still is bugs they can fix, so they don't want to say "we won't fix them" very loud. The second reason is that there's still FO4 VR coming out beginning of 2017, and we don't know if it will be a patch to FO4 (probable) or a totally different game (also possible). In the first case then there will be updates for a while again.

 

 

Thanks for the info

[prinyo]

FO4VR is expected to be a completely separate game. I think it was officially confirmed but I can't find the link.

 

Looking at the patch history for FO4 it seems they are mostly done with the patches. I didn't understand if they removed the "jump table" that the script extender people were complaining about. 

[TNG]

FO4VR is expected to be a completely separate game. I think it was officially confirmed but I can't find the link.

 

Looking at the patch history for FO4 it seems they are mostly done with the patches. I didn't understand if they removed the "jump table" that the script extender people were complaining about. 

 

Really?

I thought that the consensus was that that new file space created in Fallout 4's store in steam was evidence that the VR update was going to be a DLC for the main game and not a standalone program.

Then again, I haven't been following the VR update at all. 

[prinyo]

 

I thought that the consensus was that that new file space created in Fallout 4's store in steam was evidence that the VR update was going to be a DLC for the main game and not a standalone program.

 

 

[tazdotnet]

when bethesda was completely done with patches for the original skyrim they announced they were moving on - fallout 4 is kinda in a screwy spot where it's not the only game they have to patch and they are developing it for VR

 

i will say that VR requires a lot of changes to the structure of the game - libraries used for displaying the world, input (if you lay down the character should lay down but current FO4 does not have that ability), animation (canned animations will not work so well for a game like FO4 in VR because the character should be doing what the player is doing)

 

yes patches are a problem for F4SE dev but they don't make it impossible, just more difficult - HOWEVER, the script extender team is focusing more on getting SKSE64 done right now - behippo has mentioned that getting SKSE64 done could help speed up F4SE dev, SSE uses basically the FO4 engine so finding certain addresses in SSE may give them a better idea of where to look for the same in FO4 making some of the work go faster

 

 

i also want to point out that with SKSE64 the team has a clear idea of the features they need to implement because they already did it in SKSE, BUT in FO4 they don't know as much about how the game does things to know what features they can implement - in other words, F4SE has gotten farther in dev at this point but it has a much longer road to travel and it may move a bit slower than SKSE64

[Webemperor]

i will say that VR requires a lot of changes to the structure of the game - libraries used for displaying the world, input (if you lay down the character should lay down but current FO4 does not have that ability), animation (canned animations will not work so well for a game like FO4 in VR because the character should be doing what the player is doing)

 

 

But would they need to patch the game to do that if VR version will be an independent file?

[Halstrom]

Probably the space in Steam store is for the FO4 GECK release if it finally comes out of beta.

[garg]

SSE uses basically the FO4 engine

No it doesn't!

[pipdude]

i will say that VR requires a lot of changes to the structure of the game - libraries used for displaying the world, input (if you lay down the character should lay down but current FO4 does not have that ability), animation (canned animations will not work so well for a game like FO4 in VR because the character should be doing what the player is doing)

 

I figured that the VR version would mainly just allow head movement to control the view but still rely on a controller for character movement. Seems like the game would be completely incompatible with room-scale VR. 

[VonHelton]

I don't see them doing a whole game just for VR. VR is expensive, and I just don't know that many people who have it or can afford it.

[tazdotnet]

 

SSE uses basically the FO4 engine

No it doesn't!

 

yes it does

 

they converted skyrim to 64 bit and decided to stop and do fallout 4 - while the main team took on fallout 4 the team at the second BGS location continued with SSE

 

fallout 4 uses the engine from the converted skyrim with some improvements

 

fallout 4 and SSE basically uses the same engine the same way the first release of WOW and warcraft 3 used the same engine - it called forking

[DexesTTP]

And of course, because they're the same engine called "gamebryo" then the work for SKSE64 and F4SE will be the same, right ? Same name means same stuff .

Internally, the engines between Skyrim : Special Edition and Fallout 4 are very different, actually they're more different than Skyrim and Skyrim:SE on most regards. I don't pull that out of my ass, I actually know about a third of the engine code used in these games and asked around about how the other parts behaves. The only point where FO4 and S:SE are closer is in actual binary matching, which makes sense since they use the x86-64 instruction set while oldrim uses the x86-32 set (all actual ARM instructions are coded differently).

 

The actual way to "solve problems" like behaviors, lighting and mesh representation has been updated between oldrim and Fallout 4. For example, you may know that FO4 now integrates cloth physics which replaces a lot of the old behavior physics (used by HDT) in Skyrim. The same way, materials in FO4 introduced new Nif nodes which replace the old way of doing stuff. We could also talk about the Papyrus virtual machine which has been augmented with a lot of new instructions, while removing some other constructs.

 

As for S:SE, most of the features needed to be "retrocompatible" with oldrim, in order for the port to be as seamless as possible. These features don't appear in FO4 and the new FO4 stuff isn't present in S:SE - we checked that early on. So the "new" stuff we may discover in FO4 can't even be retrieved from S:SE. It just isn't there.

 

So while the work on SKSE64 will be helpful in some regards to develop F4SE, it won't actually help as much as you say. It will give the Silverlock team better understanding on how to work with 64-bit code in general though.

[pipdude]

tazdonet. Can you send a link to behippos thread? I would be curious to follow that.

 

My guess is that they could re-use some of their own custom functions written with 64bit in both extenders. But, the addresses and probably starting functionality would be different in each.

[garg]

tazdotnet:

 

I have been working on a mod for Fallout 4 that adds thousands of shadow cast lights to interior cells. When Skyrim SE came out I thought I'd take a look if I could do the same. Nope, there is still the 4 shadow cast light limit and the silly more then 4 overlapping lights bug where one will turn on/off which doesn't exist in Fallout 4 and there is more. Not even the graphical engine of Skyrim SE matches that of Fallout 4!

Skyrim SE is just a conversion of Skyrim to 64 bit with a few graphical enhancements thrown in and not even good ones at that, the volumetric lighting is a farce!

[prinyo]

 

i will say that VR requires a lot of changes to the structure of the game - libraries used for displaying the world, input (if you lay down the character should lay down but current FO4 does not have that ability), animation (canned animations will not work so well for a game like FO4 in VR because the character should be doing what the player is doing)

 

I figured that the VR version would mainly just allow head movement to control the view but still rely on a controller for character movement. Seems like the game would be completely incompatible with room-scale VR. 

 

 

 

You can already do that if you play FO4 via vorpX on Vive or Oculus. The headset tracks the head movement and you use your keyboard and mouse as usual. 

 

They are making FO4VR full room-scale - you will use only the Vive/Oculus controllers to operate in-game. In the demo they were showing they were using teleportation triggered via the left hand controller. The menus are in the pip-boy that is on your left arm.

 

About the player character - they don't need to do anything about it because there is no player character model, as there is no player character. The player himself/herself is the character.  So you are free to jump or lay down as in the other VR games.

 

As far as I know this video is the only one that shows something from the actual demo - for a second you can see the pip-boy on the PC monitor and you can see the weapon he is using. And you can see they are not rendering anything from the player. But this was an early demo, I guess they'll add hands.

 

 

I'm curious what will they do with the dialogue as FO4's system can be extremely confusing in this situation. 

I don't see them doing a whole game just for VR. VR is expensive, and I just don't know that many people who have it or can afford it.

 

Thankfully they can see themselves doing it and that's what really matters :-) 

VR is expensive but not that expensive. Vivie / Oculus costs as much as a new model TV or a new phone. 

 

 

All this might seem off-topic here but it is not. It remains to be seen how different FO4VR will be from the flat game and how modable it will be. I know expecting a script extender for it is quite optimistic, but I do hope the body replacers and some kind of animation swaps will be possible. 

[pipdude]

 

They are making FO4VR full room-scale - you will use only the Vive/Oculus controllers to operate in-game. In the demo they were showing they were using teleportation triggered via the left hand controller. The menus are in the pip-boy that is on your left arm.

 

Interesting.

 

Teleportation? Still doesn't make sense to me. You walk to the edge of your room and then have to back up to the middle again?

 

Maybe it's just that I haven't seen how this system works in VR yet. But, sounds super clumsy for an open-world type of game where you travel across large areas.

[prinyo]

 

Teleportation? Still doesn't make sense to me. You walk to the edge of your room and then have to back up to the middle again?

 

Maybe it's just that I haven't seen how this system works in VR yet. But, sounds super clumsy for an open-world type of game where you travel across large areas.

 

 

Room-scale VR means exactly that - at the scale of a room :-)

This means that you are put in a place and you can explore that place in any way you want. If you want to move to another place then you need the controllers for that. The movement is a serious problem with VR right now and different developers experiment with different solutions. The two most popular are 1/ the teleportation - works fine for everybody but feels gimmicky and "not right" and 2/ the "sliding" movement that is the equivalent of pressing W but instead you use the trackpad on the controller - it is cool but many people get motion sickness. The demo that Bethesda was showing of FO4VR was using teleportation. There is no information about what movement options there will be in the final game. But people are still hoping there will be a free movement option also.

 

I apologize for adding another video but this one shows pretty much I expect FO4VR to work like. It is about a fan made VR mod for GTAV. It demonstrates how the room scale and the teleportation work in such a game. Pay attention to the top left corner to see what exactly he is doing.

 

 

 

 

This one also shows those things plus a lot of shooting :-)

 

 

 

 

 

Going back to SexTec, what this all means for the future SexTecVR whenever it might happen. The biggest point is that it is going to be a voyeur mostly experience as there is no player character model and also the current VR systems only track the head and the hands so simulating a POV experience is not possible. On the other hand the voyeur experience will be way more real, interesting and engaging. One small example :-) I expect a lot of exciting experiments and solutions comming from the community in the next few years. And if FO4VR is as moddable as the flat game it will open quite a lot of possibilities and will be very important corner stone. 

[tazdotnet]

 

 

 

when bethesda was completely done with patches for the original skyrim they announced they were moving on - fallout 4 is kinda in a screwy spot where it's not the only game they have to patch and they are developing it for VR

 

i will say that VR requires a lot of changes to the structure of the game - libraries used for displaying the world, input (if you lay down the character should lay down but current FO4 does not have that ability), animation (canned animations will not work so well for a game like FO4 in VR because the character should be doing what the player is doing)

 

yes patches are a problem for F4SE dev but they don't make it impossible, just more difficult - HOWEVER, the script extender team is focusing more on getting SKSE64 done right now - behippo has mentioned that getting SKSE64 done could help speed up F4SE dev, SSE uses basically the FO4 engine so finding certain addresses in SSE may give them a better idea of where to look for the same in FO4 making some of the work go faster

 

 

i also want to point out that with SKSE64 the team has a clear idea of the features they need to implement because they already did it in SKSE, BUT in FO4 they don't know as much about how the game does things to know what features they can implement - in other words, F4SE has gotten farther in dev at this point but it has a much longer road to travel and it may move a bit slower than SKSE64

yes it does

 

they converted skyrim to 64 bit and decided to stop and do fallout 4 - while the main team took on fallout 4 the team at the second BGS location continued with SSE

 

fallout 4 uses the engine from the converted skyrim with some improvements

 

fallout 4 and SSE basically uses the same engine the same way the first release of WOW and warcraft 3 used the same engine - it called forking

And of course, because they're the same engine called "gamebryo" then the work for SKSE64 and F4SE will be the same, right ? Same name means same stuff .

 

Internally, the engines between Skyrim : Special Edition and Fallout 4 are very different, actually they're more different than Skyrim and Skyrim:SE on most regards. I don't pull that out of my ass, I actually know about a third of the engine code used in these games and asked around about how the other parts behaves. The only point where FO4 and S:SE are closer is in actual binary matching, which makes sense since they use the x86-64 instruction set while oldrim uses the x86-32 set (all actual ARM instructions are coded differently).

 

The actual way to "solve problems" like behaviors, lighting and mesh representation has been updated between oldrim and Fallout 4. For example, you may know that FO4 now integrates cloth physics which replaces a lot of the old behavior physics (used by HDT) in Skyrim. The same way, materials in FO4 introduced new Nif nodes which replace the old way of doing stuff. We could also talk about the Papyrus virtual machine which has been augmented with a lot of new instructions, while removing some other constructs.

 

As for S:SE, most of the features needed to be "retrocompatible" with oldrim, in order for the port to be as seamless as possible. These features don't appear in FO4 and the new FO4 stuff isn't present in S:SE - we checked that early on. So the "new" stuff we may discover in FO4 can't even be retrieved from S:SE. It just isn't there.

 

So while the work on SKSE64 will be helpful in some regards to develop F4SE, it won't actually help as much as you say. It will give the Silverlock team better understanding on how to work with 64-bit code in general though.

 

 

 

1: i don't imply meaning in my sentences, and yet here you are reacting to an implied meaning that is not there...

2: you also manage to offend me with your assumptions

3: i regarded you as one of the smarter people on this site - then i read your post...

3: i will not respond to posts about this topic anymore in this thread because it has been de-railed too much

[Sickotik Mods]

And now: clean up time.

This can mean one of two things.

1) You're cleaning up this thread

2) You're in the final stages of Sextec, in which case MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE HERE!!!!!!!!

 

Please be the latter. What says you CPU?