Myst42 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 I just wanted to tell people a weird tale about a weird weird load order... where everyone in the world used BOSS, I use Wrye Bash instead with a now dead feature called Balo groups. I wanted ordered mods, set by kinds and similar features. it's a lot to ask nowadays, but somehow I dont like the messy state of things that BOSS leaves Besides I made a weird discovery too. You know the crash on exiting oblilvion? Well I tracked down one of it's causes to be landscape and landscape mods load order. Whenever the game doesnt like it, it crashes on exit. I found out this by opening the game, getting to the menu and closing it immediately. Identifying the rogue mod and changing the load order fixes it 100% of the times. It doesnt prevent crashing after playing a while and loading some cells though. But at least I can say one of the causes is most definitely, load order. I have managed to make various copies of Oblivion so I can test and use different kinds of mods So, I'm trying this experiment and so far I've managed to install stuff with no load-order-related-on-exit-crash. I've followed every installation instruction for every mod, paying special attention to load order recommendations and indications, compatibilities and patching. I'm not entirely sure my load order is perfect, maybe I missed stuff BOSS may know, maybe I do have wrong stuff I haven't noticed. But also maybe, in the best of cases, logic in guessing what each mod does and making sure it doesnt interfere with the rest by setting it in a logical order, paid it's fruits... So I've come up with this (none is final though): This is the one I intend to use a a play setting: Active Mod Files: 00 Oblivion.esm 01 CM Partners.esm 02 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.72] 03 Enhanced Genetics Overhaul.esm 04 All Natural Base.esm [Version 1.36] 05 Better Cities Resources.esm [Version 6.0.7] == ROOT===================== 06 DLCShiveringIsles.esp 07 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.4.3] 08 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.5.2] 09 UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0] 0A UOPS Additional Changes.esp ++ USIPS Additional Changes.esp == LIBRARY================== 0B CM Partners.esp 0C Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.72] 0D Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63] ++ Cobl Tweaks.esp [Version 1.44] == COSMETIC-1=============== 0E SetBody.esp == COSMETIC================= ++ Enhanced Genetics Overhaul - VanillaRaces.esp == COSMETIC+1=============== 0F Enhanced Genetics Overhaul - Playable Dremora .esp 10 Enhanced Genetics Overhaul - Playable SI Races.esp 11 Enhanced Genetics Overhaul - X117Remake.esp == COSMETIC+2=============== ++ Enhanced Genetics Overhaul - Cosmetic Addons .esp == RACE===================== 12 Ancient Elves.esp 13 Ancient Elves - Variations.esp == ENVIRONMENT============== 14 AliveWaters.esp 15 AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp 16 AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp 17 All Natural.esp [Version 1.36] ** All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp [Version 1.36] 18 All Natural - SI.esp [Version 1.36] 19 Enhanced Vegetation [125%].esp 1A Natural_Vegetation_200%_by_Max_Tael.esp 1B WindowLightingSystem.esp == ENVIRONMENT+1============ 1C Atmospheres.esp 1D Oblivion Fragrance.esp == TWEAK==================== 1E OblivionReloaded.esp ++ OblivionReloadedArenaCombat.esp 1F OblivionReloadedFlare.esp == MISC.-1================== 20 PBPhotoStudio.esp 21 PoseBooks.esp 22 Screenshooter's Illumination.esp 23 ShadderAddonPhotoHelper.esp == MISC.==================== 24 Daedric Immunities.esp 25 DeathDenied.esp 26 DLCHorseArmor.esp 27 DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8] 28 DLCOrrery.esp 29 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5] 2A DLCSpellTomes.esp ++ DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1] 2B HUDCompanions.esp 2C HumantouchNPC.esp 2D KeyChain.esp [Version 5.00] 2E MadCompanionshipSpells.esp [Version 2.5] 2F MCS extension.esp ++ No Glow a go go.esp 30 VipCxj_HighHeels.esp 31 Wrye Shivering Death.esp [Version 05] == MISC.+1================== 32 TellPeterAllNatural.esp 33 TellPeterAtmospheres4HaH.esp 34 TellPeterVanilla.esp == GEAR===================== 35 AddDummyClothes.esp ++ Mass Outfit Redesign.esp == WEAPON=================== 36 Immersive Weapons.esp == ORDER OF THE DRAGON====== 37 Orden des Drachen.esp [Version 2016] == HESU===================== 38 HESU AppleHotSprings.esp 39 HESU GnollMountain.esp 3A HESU GreatForestGorge.esp 3B HESU HellLands.esp 3C HESU PoisonSwamp.esp 3D HESU Shipton.esp 3E HESU SkyrimTemple.esp 3F HESU SmokeTown.esp 40 HESU ValenwoodMine.esp == HOME===================== 41 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp 42 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8] 43 DLCFrostcrag.esp 44 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8] 45 DLCThievesDen.esp 46 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.11] 47 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.11] 48 DLCVileLair.esp 49 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9] == UNIQUE LANDSCAPES======== 4A xulAncientRedwoods.esp [Version 1.6] 4B xulAncientYews.esp [Version 1.4.4] 4C xulArriusCreek.esp [Version 1.1.4] 4D xulAspenWood.esp [Version 1.0.3] 4E xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp [Version 1.6.5] 4F xulBlackwoodForest.esp [Version 1.1.1] 50 xulBravilBarrowfields.esp [Version 1.3.5] 51 xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp [Version 1.1.1] 52 xulCheydinhalFalls.esp [Version 1.0.1] 53 xulChorrolHinterland.esp [Version 1.2.3] 54 xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp [Version 1.1.3] 55 xulCloudtopMountains.esp [Version 1.0.3] 56 xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp [Version 1.2.2] 57 xuldarkforest.esp [Version 1.0.5] 58 xulEntiusGorge.esp [Version 1.2.1] 59 xulFallenleafEverglade.esp [Version 1.3.1] 5A xulImperialIsle.esp [Version 1.6.8] 5B xulJerallGlacier.esp [Version 1.0.2] 5C xulLushWoodlands.esp [Version 1.3.3] 5D xulPantherRiver.esp 5E xulPatch_AY_AC.esp [Version 1.1] 5F xulRiverEthe.esp [Version 1.0.2] 60 xulRollingHills_EV.esp [Version 1.3.3] 61 xulSilverfishRiverValley.esp [Version 1.0.4] 62 xulSkingradOutskirts.esp [Version 1.0.2] 63 xulSnowdale.esp [Version 1.0.6] 64 xulStendarrValley.esp [Version 1.2.2] 65 xulTheEasternPeaks.esp [Version 1.2] 66 xulTheHeath.esp == QUEST==================== 67 Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp 68 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp 69 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6] 6A Knights.esp 6B Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.1.3] 6C Kvatch Rebuilt.esp [Version 3.0] 6D Kvatch Rebuilt - No More Burned Ground.esp ++ Kvatch Rebuilt Fixes.esp 6E SnusDungeons.esp == BETTER CITIES============ 6F Better Cities .esp [Version 6.0.5] ++ Better Cities - COBL.esp [Version 6.0.4] 70 Better Cities - IC Imperial Isle.esp [Version 6.0.2] 71 Better Cities - Leyawiin Flooded.esp [Version 6.0.0] 72 Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp [Version 6.0.0] 73 Better Cities Full.esp [Version 6.0.7] 74 Better Imperial City.esp [Version 6.0.7] == PLACE==================== 75 CloudRulerTempleAlive.esp 76 HackdirtAlive.esp 77 WeynonPrioryAlive.esp == NPC====================== 78 CM Partners Extra NPCs.esp 79 CM Partners NPC.esp == MAGIC==================== 7A MidasSpells.esp == ANIMATION================ 7B Personality_Idles4.esp == POSE===================== 7C 77_Umpa_Animation.esp 7D ActorsInCharge.esp 7E ActorsInEmotions.esp 7F CTAddPose_ArPkPose.esp 80 CTAddPose_Gaff_01.esp 81 CTAddPose_Gaff_02.esp 82 CTAddPose_glock3.esp 83 CTAddPose_Halo.esp 84 CTAddPose_Le01.esp 85 CTAddPose_Le02.esp 86 CTAddPose_osr1.esp 87 CTAddPose_osr2.esp 88 CTAddPose_osr3.esp 89 CTAddPose_OTpair2.esp 8A CTAddPose_Pinups.esp 8B CTAddPose_Pinups_2.esp 8C CTAddPose_Pinups_3.esp 8D geechan_SimplePose.esp 8E Goma Pose Merged.esp 8F Modern Arsenal Pose.esp 90 NaRae Pose - 01.esp 91 NaRae Pose - 02.esp 92 SexyWitchPoses.esp 93 ShinyEmotions.esp 94 The Uguu Poser.esp == PATCH==================== 95 Better Cities - All Natural.esp [Version 6.0.4] 96 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp [Version 1.5] 97 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp [Version 1.5] 98 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp [Version 1.5] 99 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Snowdale.esp [Version 1.5] 9A Better Cities Bravil - Unique Landscape Panther River patch.esp [Version 1.5] 9B Better Cities Chorrol - Knights of the Nine.esp [Version 6.0.7] 9C Better Cities Chorrol - ODD patch.esp [Version 6.0.0] 9D Better Cities IC Waterfront - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp [Version 1.5] 9E GnollMountain-BC6 Patch.esp 9F GnollMountain-Snowdale Patch.esp A0 GreatForestGorge-LushWoodlands Patch.esp A1 Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp A2 OOTD-SkyrimTemple Patch.esp A3 PoisonSwamp-BlackwoodForest Patch.esp A4 SkyrimTemple-JerallGlacier Patch.esp A5 SkyrimTemple-SmokeTown-JerallGlacier Patch.esp A6 SkyrimTemple-Snowdale Patch.esp A7 SmokeTown-ArriusCreek Patch.esp A8 SmokeTown-JerallGlacier Patch.esp == LAST===================== A9 Bashed Patch, 0.esp This is the one I use for lewd stuff Active Mod Files: 00 oblivion.esm 01 CM Partners.esm 02 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.72] 03 Enhanced Genetics Overhaul.esm 04 All Natural Base.esm [Version 1.36] 05 Lovers With PK.esm 06 LoversCreature.esm == ROOT===================== 07 DLCShiveringIsles.esp 08 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.4.3] 09 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.5.2] 0A UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0] 0B UOPS Additional Changes.esp 0C USIPS Additional Changes.esp == LIBRARY================== 0D CM Partners.esp 0E Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.72] 0F Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63] 10 Cobl Tweaks.esp [Version 1.44] == COSMETIC-1=============== 11 SetBody.esp == COSMETIC================= 12 Enhanced Genetics Overhaul - VanillaRaces.esp == COSMETIC+1=============== 13 Enhanced Genetics Overhaul - Playable Dremora .esp 14 Enhanced Genetics Overhaul - Playable SI Races.esp == COSMETIC+2=============== 15 Enhanced Genetics Overhaul - Cosmetic Addons .esp == RACE===================== 16 Ancient Elves.esp 17 Ancient Elves - Variations.esp == GEAR===================== 18 AddDummyClothes.esp ----> Delinquent MASTER: VipCxj_HighHeels.esp 19 Dildo.esp 1A Mass Outfit Redesign.esp == WEAPON=================== 1B Immersive Weapons.esp == ENVIRONMENT============== 1C AliveWaters.esp 1D AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp 1E AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp 1F All Natural.esp [Version 1.36] 20 All Natural - SI.esp [Version 1.36] 21 Enhanced Vegetation [125%].esp 22 Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp 23 WindowLightingSystem.esp == ENVIRONMENT+1============ 24 Atmospheres.esp 25 Oblivion Fragrance.esp == TWEAK==================== 26 OblivionReloaded.esp 27 OblivionReloadedArenaCombat.esp 28 OblivionReloadedFlare.esp == MISC.-1================== 29 PBPhotoStudio.esp 2A PoseBooks.esp 2B Screenshooter's Illumination.esp 2C ShadderAddonPhotoHelper.esp == MISC.==================== 2D DeathDenied.esp 2E DLCHorseArmor.esp 2F DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8] 30 DLCOrrery.esp 31 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5] 32 DLCSpellTomes.esp 33 DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1] 34 HUDCompanions.esp 35 HumantouchNPC.esp 36 KeyChain.esp [Version 5.00] 37 MadCompanionshipSpells.esp [Version 2.5] 38 MCS extension.esp 39 No Glow a go go.esp 3A VipCxj_HighHeels.esp == MISC.+1================== 3B TellPeterAllNatural.esp 3C TellPeterAtmospheres4HaH.esp 3D TellPeterVanilla.esp == NPC====================== 3E CM Partners Extra NPCs.esp 3F CM Partners NPC.esp == HOME===================== 40 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp 41 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8] 42 DLCFrostcrag.esp 43 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8] 44 DLCThievesDen.esp 45 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.11] 46 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.11] 47 DLCVileLair.esp 48 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9] == QUEST==================== 49 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp 4A DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6] 4B Knights.esp 4C Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.1.3] == POSE===================== 4D 77_Umpa_Animation.esp 4E ActorsInCharge.esp 4F ActorsInEmotions.esp 50 CTAddPose_ArPkPose.esp 51 CTAddPose_Gaff_01.esp 52 CTAddPose_Gaff_02.esp 53 CTAddPose_glock3.esp 54 CTAddPose_Halo.esp 55 CTAddPose_Le01.esp 56 CTAddPose_Le02.esp 57 CTAddPose_osr1.esp 58 CTAddPose_osr2.esp 59 CTAddPose_osr3.esp 5A CTAddPose_OTpair2.esp 5B CTAddPose_Pinups.esp 5C CTAddPose_Pinups_2.esp 5D CTAddPose_Pinups_3.esp 5E geechan_SimplePose.esp 5F Goma Pose Merged.esp 60 Modern Arsenal Pose.esp 61 NaRae Pose - 01.esp 62 NaRae Pose - 02.esp 63 SexyWitchPoses.esp 64 ShinyEmotions.esp 65 The Uguu Poser.esp == LOVERS-1================= 66 LoversAdultPlayPlusforSSP.esp 67 LoversVoiceSSPplus.esp == LOVERS=================== 68 Lovers With PK.esp [Version 96v5] 69 Lovers With PK Extender.esp [Version 2.4.3] 6A LoversCreature.esp 6B PlayerSlaveEncounters.esp [Version 0.694] == LOVERS+1================= 6C LoversAdultYield.esp 6D LoversBackup2.esp 6E LoversBed.esp 6F LoversClubCats.esp 70 LoversClubCatsSx.esp 71 LoversHelpRapeVPlayer.esp 72 LoversPayBandit.esp 73 LoversRaperS.esp 74 LoversRapeSlave.esp 75 LoversSlaveTrader.esp 76 LoversTrueCrimeEx.esp == PATCH==================== 77 PSE-PayBandit-Patch.esp == LAST===================== 78 Alternate Start Revamped.esp 79 LoversMB2.esp == LAST+1=================== 7A Lovers3dorgasmMB2.esp 7B LoversIdleAnimsPriority.esp == LAST+2=================== 7C Lovers3dorgasm.esp 7D LoversAnimObjectsPriority.esp Now, the last issue I face is related to a few patches. Where they require a different load order. Most of the times I manage to arrange it But this last time, the arrangement triggered the load order on exit crash. I can't load a certain hesu mod after frostcrag DLC like the patch wants me to And I cant load weynon priory alive before better cities, but I also must load unique landscapes before better cities, and the patch wants me to load weynon priory before unique landscapes - that would make me load weynon before better cities too. BOSS can't help with that dilemma though. So... Any thoughts on this? Or stuff you may know and I haven't noticed? I just felt so lonely using this weird setting I just wanted to share Still hope I'm doing the right thing. It has worked so far and I really tont want to have to go ussing a messy list that I understand nothing about
Symon Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Hi, nothing unusual about spurning BOSS and OBMM. I use Wrye Bash to control my load order and careful thought to order mods. If you haven't seen them, these may be useful: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=Common_Bugs and http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=Crashes#Edits_to_Tamriel_cell_.28-47.2C-7.29 Do take note of Edits to Tamriel cell (-47,-7) I've never had crash-on-exit but I Inspect and clean all mods and meshes before I use them. Probably why my Oblivion almost never crashes.
gregathit Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 I'm like Symon, I hand order things via Wrye Bash. I don't use BOSS and never will!! I even take it a bit further, I strip all clothes, armors, weapons and misc items out of mods and put it in my own custom esp. This way I never have to put up with missing things, dirty edits or unwanted changes just to have some cool outfit. Yes, it is a lot of work, but the way I look at it, I don't have to ever waste ANY time bug hunting why this or that isn't working. As to your load order, I only see one thing wrong with your "lewd" version: 18 AddDummyClothes.esp ----> Delinquent MASTER: VipCxj_HighHeels.esp You need to move the adddummyclothes.esp down below VipCxj_highheels.esp so it will function correctly. Always be on the lookout for Delinquent master messages from Wrye. It is trying to save you some headaches.
Myst42 Posted April 22, 2016 Author Posted April 22, 2016 Ah! Yes... Forgot to fix it in the lewd version, thanks for reminding me! As for my patches issue, I believe I solved it... I had 2 patches that werent supposed to be there though (Hesu patches are messy still and come with no instructions except in the small writing of the actual esp files) I learnt a bit about making landscape patches by myself too so I made my own fix for Weynon Priory and thanks to some gambling I discovered the Gnoll Mountain-Frostcrag patch had the weird possibility to be saved and used with inverted masters... Then I had to move order of the dragon-hesu patch to the bottom to get rid of a bottomless fortress. So now, I believe my problems are finally over! I'm so happy Glad to know I'm not the only one not using BOSS in this game too
minaemm Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 I hated BOSS for a long time as well, but now i use it as a starting off point for non Lovers mods before using TES4edit to resolve conlicts, then Wrye to reorder my load order and do the Bashed Patch. I tend to merge a lot of files (armor and clothing, places, etc.) to keep the # manageable, so i have to compromise a few times. But all in all, it works well.
DogOnPorch Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 Boss does not replace knowing your mods and ordering them properly yourself. In fact, if you know what you're doing, you can combine them yourself in the CS. But BOSS is great if you're running well known mods and you're not sure on the load-order.
Fienyx Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 I use a combination of gecko, Tes4Edit, and cse to merge all sorts of stuff. I've tested mods for basically the last 3 years, and have found way more than the 254 allowed. If I were to count all the mods that were merged so I could add more to the game (not items so much, game tweaks mostly) I would have an extra 45 or so. Runs pretty smoothly for the most part, and can play 2-3 hrs without a crash,and I'm still working on adding more.
myuhinny Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 Armor and outfit mods I just grab the mesh and textures I want and throw the rest away then I add them to my folder and then add them to my .esp using the CS (creation set). I usually manually set my load order to where I think it should be and have never had a problem. Except for some of the older mods that use the older high heel system and were never updated to the newest version. Those would cause CTD starting the game but using TES4EDIT to rip the master out of those ones fixed that problem. Then I just casted the high heel spell when I was wearing one of those ones to change the height.
varenne Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 BOSS and the masterlist are IMO good starting points, especially for new Oblivion players moving into the world of MODs. I haven't actually run BOSS in years, yet I still use the masterlist when initially determining LO placement for any new MODs I'm considering. Is BOSS/masterlist perfect in it's recommended groupings and placement?, absolutely not. In my mind everything can be improved upon. (It is especially useful to the Plug & Play crowd, that simply don't want to be bothered with readme files, descriptions and reviewing prerequisite requirements. Clearly evident with the posts we see here on LL.) But you will only learn that over time and through experience, gained through experimenting and learning to use other tools like the CS/E, OBMM, TES4Edit and WB, as well as gaining an understanding of the deeper Oblivion game mechanics. My current day LO in many ways runs counter to BOSS/masterlist, in some areas and groupings. Mostly I use just WB, editing with TES4Edit/TES4Gecko and CS/E and like others here the merging of similar MODs (or with my personal custom MODs) . That has been my path to an advanced Oblivion build (plus lots and lots of reading up on MODs, in multiple languages), one that like others posted here, rarely ever CTDs.
minaemm Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 I actually do not use Gecko anymore, since i feel TES4Edit does the same for merging, with the bonus of immediately being able to edit out all (left over) conflicts. CSE i only use for scripting changes (since they need to be parsed), or map work (since you need to see what goes where . I do not use OBMM anymore either, except for unpacking their files. Or DarkDARNUi... But one thing can not be overstressed. Be patient, and TEST, TEST, TEST!
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