The Manipulator

[Guest ffabris]

OK, research shows that there are several factions which include Thalmor. Main ones are: ThalmorFaction, MGThalmorFaction (which has PlayerFaction set explicitly as enemy), MQ201ThalmorEnemyFaction (which at one point sets combat reaction to the player as enemy, via script), MarkarthThalmorFaction.

 

I don't think I can set Thlamor to be non-aggressive during MQ201 (Diplomatic Immunity) without editing the vanilla scripts directly, which I won't do.

 

I can add one or more of the above factions to Manipulator, yes, but I suspect it won't help with MQ201.

[karlpaws]

It costs me little to add Thalmor, but I'd like to see what that would potentially break - aside from the quests they're involved in. Meaning, will that make some other faction suddenly hostile? If so, I'll have to add that as well (as I did with the Vigilants).

 

I was going to suggest looking at the Stormcloak factions but ...

 

OK, research shows that there are several factions which include Thalmor. Main ones are: ThalmorFaction, MGThalmorFaction (which has PlayerFaction set explicitly as enemy), MQ201ThalmorEnemyFaction (which at one point sets combat reaction to the player as enemy, via script), MarkarthThalmorFaction.

 

I don't think I can set Thlamor to be non-aggressive during MQ201 (Diplomatic Immunity) without editing the vanilla scripts directly, which I won't do.

 

I can add one or more of the above factions to Manipulator, yes, but I suspect it won't help with MQ201.

 

This is the primary problem with Thalmor as a faction. Depending on where you are in the main quest and what you are doing, they may or may not be aggressive.

 

I see you don't have Northwatch listed in there. It may not be listed as a Thalmor faction or not, given that they're really just a special quest dungeon, with optional friendlyness, kinda like Mistwatch or Redwater Den and other quest locations.

 

I do not think you'd want to, or need to, do anything with the MQ201 faction. That would be the Embassy where you start friendly, and turn hostile if you are not wearing the hooded Thalmor robes. There are various disguise mods that make you a member of the Thalmor faction in a variety of ways, and then all of the NPCs there stay friendly. Northwatch Thalmor are as well with the ones I've used. Stormcloak camps tend to be fully aggressive though, which is why I'd mention looking at them for potential conflicts. (Same for wearing Stormcloak gear: imperial troops and some guards would be fully aggressive).

 

I want to say I've used SLEN and TDF myself on the Markarth Thalmore commander and the one in Solitude as well (without disguise mods) but if you can find which faction the wilderness event thalmor are in, the ones in the Solitude Thalmor HQ and Northwatch, maybe you could just make them friendly (Northwatch separately, I'd say), and ignore the main quest issues.

[Guest ffabris]

OK, Northwatch is referenced in MS09, Missing in Action.  The thalmor there have their own faction: MS09NorthwatchFaction. That has MS09PlayerAllyFaction as enemy; MS09PlayerAllyFaction has PlayerFaction as ally. (Confused yet?) Thus MS09NorthwatchFaction is indirectly enemy to the player.

 

Thalmor HQ supposedly has no one in it, based on this.

 

I skipped the WE factions above. There are a few of those too.... WEThalmorDialogueFaction, WEThalmorDialogueSuspiciousFaction, WEThalmorDialogueWithPrisonerFaction, WEThalmorFaction, WEThalmorPlayerEnemyFaction.  The dialog ones just select for different types of dialog with the player. The last has player explicitly set as enemy.

 

WEThalmorFaction isn't used in any quests. WEThalmorDialogueFaction and WEThalmorPlayerEnemyFaction are both used in WEThalmorDialogue quest - which I think you were referring to.

 

As for Stormcloaks, I don't see them as enemies of the Thalmor, not in factions at least. And I checked the various Thalmor factions, as well as Stormcloak and Sons (CWSonsFaction and several related).

 

So, summary... I could add a toggle for Thalmor, which would make MS09NorthwatchFaction, WEThalmorDialogueFaction, and WEThalmorPlayerEnemyFaction - but I think the results would be unpredictable at best.

[Guest ffabris]

Fun factoid: In the Thalmor HQ, everything is owned ... except for the beds. Meaning, that's likely a safe place to sleep if you ever need one.

[Guest ffabris]

WEThalmorPlayerEnemyFaction is set via script, so adding it to Manipulator would be pointless. And therefore, so would WEThalmorDialogueFaction.

[Guest ffabris]

5.7 is up ...

• New: Added Thalmor to possible friend factions. This makes the following factions allied: MS09NorthwatchFaction, ThalmorFaction, MarkarthThalmorFaction.
• Changed: Added a confirmation when loading friend factions, with a warning that doing so will break the game.

 

[INFERTakuya]

It costs me little to add Thalmor, but I'd like to see what that would potentially break - aside from the quests they're involved in. Meaning, will that make some other faction suddenly hostile? If so, I'll have to add that as well (as I did with the Vigilants).

 

I once made a Thalmor Justiciar one of my slaves followers using EFF. She got into a fight with a guard at Rorikstead and killed him, earning me a 1000 gold bounty. =.=

 

I have no clue who initiated the attack, since I had my back turned at the time while speaking to an NPC.

[karlpaws]

Re Thalmor vs Stormcloaks, maybe the faction disguise mod changed some things.  Going to expect (not assume) you're using USLEEP as I am and so have the same fixes.

 

Northwatch starts out friendly, until you enter the walls. If you have a pass (not in the game, but can be cheated in, was orignally gotten from Captain Aldis, or general Tullius, if on the Imperial side) you can go through the whole place friendly. I think the prisoners are in the player ally faction instead, or something puts them there because they're always being attacked when I get in there.  Should be a prisoner faction that they're in instead.

[Guest ffabris]

Re Thalmor vs Stormcloaks, maybe the faction disguise mod changed some things.  Going to expect (not assume) you're using USLEEP as I am and so have the same fixes.

That I don't know ... very possibly. I checked just the factions, for that, as there are just way too many other places to look otherwise.

 

And yes, I use USLEEP... doesn't everyone?

 

Northwatch starts out friendly, until you enter the walls. If you have a pass (not in the game, but can be cheated in, was orignally gotten from Captain Aldis, or general Tullius, if on the Imperial side) you can go through the whole place friendly. I think the prisoners are in the player ally faction instead, or something puts them there because they're always being attacked when I get in there.  Should be a prisoner faction that they're in instead.

Yep... I tested with and without the new Manipulator setting. Without, I got attacked once past the first guard at gate.  I didn't check on the prisoners at all.

 

Anyway, I think I covered all the Thalmor factions that can be, without editing vanilla scripts - which I won't do, as I said. That would just introduce a whole new world of compatibility pain.

 

[Grey Cloud]

Fun factoid: In the Thalmor HQ, everything is owned ... except for the beds. Meaning, that's likely a safe place to sleep if you ever need one.

 

So as a workaroud you could hide under the blankets?

[Guest ffabris]

LOL! 

[Grey Cloud]

(Still on vers 5, not altered settings in Manipulator, not added/removed any creature type mods yet goblins and vampires (mist walkers/night crawlers) have now turned non-hostile. Master and thrall vampires still seem to be hostile (see below). Not a problem, just FYI.

 

Skyrim - A World Gone Mad.

 

Yesterday, tavelling E. cross-country from Rorikstead to pass north of Whiterun. Passed through a bunch of goblins, over a rise and into a 'Redguard Warrior' coming at me with his currrrved sword (With hindsight he may have been going for what was behind me).  I'm wondering what the Redguards are doing in the middle of Whiterun Plains when something takes a bite of my arse. I spin around to see a Death Hound followed by a sabrecat which takes a bite of the DH then turns on me. I swipe at the DH with my sword and hit the cat with Chain Lightning, except it wasn't CL but Earnest Desire (oo ek). Not to worry as just about then the goblins turn up and wade in taking out the cat and its cubs (I'm claiming the DH).

 

Meanwhile, someone is pumping out firebolts and the goblin shaman is pumping out frost. I'm then attacked by a goblin but this turns out to be a trained goblin with a Thalmor patrol and it's a Thalmor mage doing the fireworks. Somewhere around now a family of wolves get involved but don't last long. I'm fairly sure there were also some bandits involved (could have been hunters or similar).

 

I decide to go for the Thalmor mage and manage to spot him through the pandemonium, only to see him get flank attacked by a giant spider and a couple of regular-sized spiders. The spiders take out the Thalmor and me and the shaman take out the spiders and that was about that. Well except for the Earnest Desire spell kicking in on the dead sabre cat which gets up and humps thin air while I'm stood like a statue some distance away.

 

What were vampires (master and thrall variety) doing out in the middle of nowhere in broad daylight? What were Thalmor and Redguards doing so far away from a road?

 

This playthrough is absolutely brilliant - my best yet.

 

[ButchDiavolo]

(Still on vers 5, not altered settings in Manipulator, not added/removed any creature type mods yet goblins and vampires (mist walkers/night crawlers) have now turned non-hostile. Master and thrall vampires still seem to be hostile (see below). Not a problem, just FYI.

 

Skyrim - A World Gone Mad.

 

Yesterday, tavelling E. cross-country from Rorikstead to pass north of Whiterun. Passed through a bunch of goblins, over a rise and into a 'Redguard Warrior' coming at me with his currrrved sword (With hindsight he may have been going for what was behind me).  I'm wondering what the Redguards are doing in the middle of Whiterun Plains when something takes a bite of my arse. I spin around to see a Death Hound followed by a sabrecat which takes a bite of the DH then turns on me. I swipe at the DH with my sword and hit the cat with Chain Lightning, except it wasn't CL but Earnest Desire (oo ek). Not to worry as just about then the goblins turn up and wade in taking out the cat and its cubs (I'm claiming the DH).

 

Meanwhile, someone is pumping out firebolts and the goblin shaman is pumping out frost. I'm then attacked by a goblin but this turns out to be a trained goblin with a Thalmor patrol and it's a Thalmor mage doing the fireworks. Somewhere around now a family of wolves get involved but don't last long. I'm fairly sure there were also some bandits involved (could have been hunters or similar).

 

I decide to go for the Thalmor mage and manage to spot him through the pandemonium, only to see him get flank attacked by a giant spider and a couple of regular-sized spiders. The spiders take out the Thalmor and me and the shaman take out the spiders and that was about that. Well except for the Earnest Desire spell kicking in on the dead sabre cat which gets up and humps thin air while I'm stood like a statue some distance away.

 

What were vampires (master and thrall variety) doing out in the middle of nowhere in broad daylight? What were Thalmor and Redguards doing so far away from a road?

 

This playthrough is absolutely brilliant - my best yet.

 

That, my friend, is why you don't mess around with zombie cats...

 

[Grey Cloud]

Zombie cats? What zombie cats? 

[ButchDiavolo]

 

Well except for the Earnest Desire spell kicking in on the dead sabre cat which gets up and humps thin air while I'm stood like a statue some distance away.

 

That one... zombie cats are evil... EVIL!

[Pfiffy]

 

Re Thalmor vs Stormcloaks, maybe the faction disguise mod changed some things.  Going to expect (not assume) you're using USLEEP as I am and so have the same fixes.

That I don't know ... very possibly. I checked just the factions, for that, as there are just way too many other places to look otherwise.

 

And yes, I use USLEEP... doesn't everyone?

 

Northwatch starts out friendly, until you enter the walls. If you have a pass (not in the game, but can be cheated in, was orignally gotten from Captain Aldis, or general Tullius, if on the Imperial side) you can go through the whole place friendly. I think the prisoners are in the player ally faction instead, or something puts them there because they're always being attacked when I get in there.  Should be a prisoner faction that they're in instead.

Yep... I tested with and without the new Manipulator setting. Without, I got attacked once past the first guard at gate.  I didn't check on the prisoners at all.

 

Anyway, I think I covered all the Thalmor factions that can be, without editing vanilla scripts - which I won't do, as I said. That would just introduce a whole new world of compatibility pain.

 

Well done... What you did, did what I wanted to get. My Followers 'blowed' the hell out of the guards...Now I just have to check out how it works on the immersive wenches stuff.

Draugr work fine so far... Dwemer seem to be a bit problematic...Falmers are not tested jet...

[Grey Cloud]

 

 

Well except for the Earnest Desire spell kicking in on the dead sabre cat which gets up and humps thin air while I'm stood like a statue some distance away.

 

That one... zombie cats are evil... EVIL!

 

 

Oh, that one.  The goblin shaman certainly thought so as he was trying to get it with his ice bolts but was hitting the rocks in front of himself.

 

[Guest ffabris]

(Still on vers 5, not altered settings in Manipulator, not added/removed any creature type mods yet goblins and vampires (mist walkers/night crawlers) have now turned non-hostile. Master and thrall vampires still seem to be hostile (see below). Not a problem, just FYI.

No idea what those are even!

 

I have to say, it has been very interesting to see what NPCs do if they're not busy attacking you. Bandits in particular. In one camp, there's a bandit chopping wood, and he actually sings while doing so. Others mutter to themselves while patrolling.

 

There are some cases where the game system will defeat what Manipulator does with factions. Not often, but it can happen. Ustengrav comes to mind: if you fast travel there, you're likely to get attacked by the bandits - before the necromancers wipe them out, anyway. I've also had the occasional random draugr attack me in dungeons.

[Grey Cloud]

 

(Still on vers 5, not altered settings in Manipulator, not added/removed any creature type mods yet goblins and vampires (mist walkers/night crawlers) have now turned non-hostile. Master and thrall vampires still seem to be hostile (see below). Not a problem, just FYI.

No idea what those are even!

 

I have to say, it has been very interesting to see what NPCs do if they're not busy attacking you. Bandits in particular. In one camp, there's a bandit chopping wood, and he actually sings while doing so. Others mutter to themselves while patrolling.

 

There are some cases where the game system will defeat what Manipulator does with factions. Not often, but it can happen. Ustengrav comes to mind: if you fast travel there, you're likely to get attacked by the bandits - before the necromancers wipe them out, anyway. I've also had the occasional random draugr attack me in dungeons.

 

[Why can't I cut, copy or  paste on this damned forum? Is there something I have to enable?]

 

ffabris,

It's actually vampire night stalkers not crawlers but they are mentioned on the UESP wiki vampire page. They turn up in world encounters on the road with the 'hey traveller, come over here' line.

 

I noticed a similar thing yesterday while walking through that huge Forsworn place at Karthspire. Some were patrolling, some crafting, some just sitting around etc.

Another one when I was doing a 'kill the bandit leader at something or other Lookout: I arrived just as a goblin band all in sneak mode were closing in on the building.

 

I've noticed that Ash Spawn in Solstheim sometimes attack and sometimes don't. Also, if they are non-hostile and you attack one the others will go hostile whereas with Forsworn, Draugr etc the others just stand there.

Some of those Daedra things with the strange names (felgnir's?) attack and some types don't. The frost ones seem to always. The other, non-hostile, type found in warmer climes actually speak. If you hit them they will stop and say 'speak if you have something worth saying' but there doesn't seem to be any dialogue available after that.

 

This messing about with factions certainly adds a new dimension to the game.  This is what I have been missing in my last umpteen plays. I've been trying to get rid of Skyrim the game and just have Skyrim the environment to do what I want in. And as a bonus, since I have so much of the Bethesda stuff nullified the game is rock solid stability-wise.

[Guest ffabris]

It's actually vampire night stalkers not crawlers but they are mentioned on the UESP wiki vampire page. They turn up in world encounters on the road with the 'hey traveller, come over here' line.

Ahh ok. And what are goblins? Not seen those, I don't think. Not with that name, anyway.

 

This messing about with factions certainly adds a new dimension to the game.  This is what I have been missing in my last umpteen plays. I've been trying to get rid of Skyrim the game and just have Skyrim the environment to do what I want in. And as a bonus, since I have so much of the Bethesda stuff nullified the game is rock solid stability-wise.

Yep, it really does! I'm enjoying it this way too, I must say. I've got some orcs in a harem, which is kinda... "fun".

[Grey Cloud]

Goblins are similar to Riekilings in appearance. They have names like Skull-crusher and Bone-Smasher Clan. It's quite common to come across two clans fighting each other.

[Pfiffy]

It costs me little to add Thalmor, but I'd like to see what that would potentially break - aside from the quests they're involved in. Meaning, will that make some other faction suddenly hostile? If so, I'll have to add that as well (as I did with the Vigilants).

Maybe some Nords... Well, if the stormcloaks get angry they are usually easy prey.

[ButchDiavolo]

Goblins are similar to Riekilings in appearance. They have names like Skull-crusher and Bone-Smasher Clan. It's quite common to come across two clans fighting each other.

 

But um... there are no goblins in the "vanilla" game though, right? You are getting them from Immersive creatures? Or am I missing something (as usual)

 

[Grey Cloud]

 

Goblins are similar to Riekilings in appearance. They have names like Skull-crusher and Bone-Smasher Clan. It's quite common to come across two clans fighting each other.

 

But um... there are no goblins in the "vanilla" game though, right? You are getting them from Immersive creatures? Or am I missing something (as usual)

 

 

 

You are probably correct about IC as I have always had it installed and have never played vanilla  - I got as far as escaping Helgen and going to the sister's farm/village(?).

 

Re your sig: That quote would more likely be Lao Tzu or Zhoung Zhou as Taoists have by far the better sense of humour.

[rhyme]

Note, config file of hotkeys not saving upon loads was fixed with the installation of sexlab. not sure about outfits as i have yet to use it, but thought i should let you know