Game of Thrones

[Insidiator]

Am I the only one? I didn't like the books and I don't like the series. Let me explain: The story and the characters are realistic enough that I start taking into things into account that I don't usually bother with in most fantasy stories, i.e. that everyone is a bastard and I hope they die. I don't wish for any of them to succeed, because I can't find myself cheering for anyone. They are ALL manipulative jerks, rapists, murderers etc. It's like reading the history of the War of the Roses in medieval England. Sure it's interesting, but I don't care who wins, all of them are awful. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade (hell, all of my friends love both the books and the series) but I just can't get into it. I read the two first books before I realized, I hoped the white zombie things got down from the north and killed them all. And then travelled eastwards and got them as well.

...

And then somebody here made a great perverted mod out of it. He he.

[labrat]

Gregathit wrote

It was hard reading the first couple of books as they would just introduce folks and then kill them.

 

Mr. Martin used to be very keen on the old-school RPGs, (maybe he still is), and it definitely seems like before he writes a chapter he shakes a dice to see if the players will survive

 

Done badly "mould-breaking" can be crap (there's a reason all those clichés became clichés), but someone of his skill can get away with it.

 

 

What rabbit is he going to pull out of the hat with Jon Snow?

 

 

Insidiator wrote

I can't find myself cheering for anyone

I know what you mean and sympathise to a degree. I think that he was trying to reinforce the mediæval/exotic atmosphere by over-cooking the brutality.

 

It's a commonplace idea that life in the old days was (or in foreign parts is) nasty, brutish and short (like the people). Unfortunately, there's too much cruelty around today for that to work the way he thought it would. Rather than distinguishing their world from ours it's uncomfortably familiar, (or if you are a Quentin Tarantino style sadist, comfortably familiar )

 

The saving grace, I think, is that the characters don't automatically get shoved into stereotypical roles (usually) and seem to evolve. Of course that's where he's being a clever bastard. It's really our perceptions of the characters that are evolving. With a few exceptions the characters don't "go on a journey which changes them" (a newish cliché), we just learn more about them and realise that our original impression was incomplete - or wrong.

 

 

Jaime Lannister is a complicated chap. I still don't know what to make of him and I think it shows what a quality writer GRRM can be that characters can behave in ways that a reader might not understand but still stay consistent. It's fairly easy to have a character do something that changes the readers perceptions drastically, but bloody difficult (judging from the failure rate with other authors) to do it in a way that rings true.

 

The other ones who suprised me were the Dog and Littlefinger. I never would have thought he'd get me sympathetic to the Dog, (because of the pace of the film you begin to see his better nature far faster on screen than in the books), and I think that the gradual way in which Littlefinger is exposed as a thorough-going bad'un was very well done too.

 

 

The only real bother I have with his work is that he can't help himself branching off and following side-plots and generally enlarging his world. That isn't the problem in itself, yay for big complicated worlds. The two issues I see are dilution and completion. First point, it's a big trick to expand the story into so many strands and still mantain a sense of cohesion. I think "Wild Cards" fizzled out a bit because he couldn't hold it together and it collapsed under the weight of subplots.

 

And on the second point, we may end up with one of the biggest unfinished masterpieces in history. He's gone down as saying he despises fanfiction (which he sees as copyright theft and poor writing practice) so I suppose the idea of someone coming along to wrap up all his loose ends posthumously will have him spinning in his grave.

 

PS.

Back in the '80s, when George was storming with the "Wild Cards" series, (which I believe is being necro'ed since the Game of Thrones success), I have this nagging memory of him getting arrested on some trumped up charge.

 

A quick g00gle reveals nothing - am I confusing him with another author of the time or do any of the other old buggers here remember it? If it did happen, someone's done a pretty thorough job of airbrushing it away.

[thesapien]

Am I the only one? I didn't like the books and I don't like the series. Let me explain: The story and the characters are realistic enough that I start taking into things into account that I don't usually bother with in most fantasy stories' date=' i.e. that everyone is a bastard and I hope they die. I don't wish for any of them to succeed, because I can't find myself cheering for anyone. They are ALL manipulative jerks, rapists, murderers etc. It's like reading the history of the War of the Roses in medieval England. Sure it's interesting, but I don't care who wins, all of them are awful. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade (hell, all of my friends love both the books and the series) but I just can't get into it. I read the two first books before I realized, I hoped the white zombie things got down from the north and killed them all. And then travelled eastwards and got them as well.

...

And then somebody here made a great perverted mod out of it. He he.

[/quote']

 

I can see that. I still like the series (never read the books) because it's one of the few running series that appeals to me. In any age of television, that's pretty much what it reduces to, comparing to the lot. So what is so much better right now?

 

On another critical note, I think it lacks laughs. There aren't many warm fuzzy moments. Most everyone is too serious all of the time. It is not nearly as bad as Battlestar Galactica on this note but borders on the same.

[Kashked]

Am I the only one? I didn't like the books and I don't like the series. Let me explain: The story and the characters are realistic enough that I start taking into things into account that I don't usually bother with in most fantasy stories' date=' i.e. that everyone is a bastard and I hope they die. I don't wish for any of them to succeed, because I can't find myself cheering for anyone. They are ALL manipulative jerks, rapists, murderers etc. It's like reading the history of the War of the Roses in medieval England. Sure it's interesting, but I don't care who wins, all of them are awful. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade (hell, all of my friends love both the books and the series) but I just can't get into it. I read the two first books before I realized, I hoped the white zombie things got down from the north and killed them all. And then travelled eastwards and got them as well.

...

And then somebody here made a great perverted mod out of it. He he.

[/quote']

 

Well, I don't know if it is just you, but personally this is the thing that appeals to me the most... While I can enjoy a "good defeats evil"-story as much as the next guy I do love that atleast once in a while we can have stories with no clear-cut heroes... Even arguably the most symphatetic character, Eddard Stark has been unfaithful to his wife and starts off the series with chopping off the head of a guy whose only crime is running away from frikkin' zombies...

 

The only real bother I have with his work is that he can't help himself branching off and following side-plots and generally enlarging his world. That isn't the problem in itself, yay for big complicated worlds. The two issues I see are dilution and completion. First point, it's a big trick to expand the story into so many strands and still mantain a sense of cohesion.

 

[...]

 

And on the second point, we may end up with one of the biggest unfinished masterpieces in history.

 

*cough*Robert Jordan*cought*

[gregathit]

*cough*Robert Jordan*cought*

 

 

Except that this IS being finished by another author, who IMHO is doing a bang up job of it......

 

But this is a whole other topic.

 

 

ON TOPIC: I am looking forward to tonight's episode

[d2vis]

*cough*Robert Jordan*cought*

 

 

Except that this IS being finished by another author' date=' who IMHO is doing a bang up job of it......

 

But this is a whole other topic.

 

 

ON TOPIC: I am looking forward to tonight's episode

[/quote']

 

 

KINGSLAYER!!!

[Guest]

The show looks really interesting. I've only been able to watch free online videos (but they are rare and rarely work ) and I really like it. I plan on buying the seasons so I can fully watch the show. I always seem to be busy doing something else while the show is playing.

[d2vis]

Man tonight's episode was awesome!

[thesapien]

Just found this tonight after desperation for wanting to see the latest episode:

http://www.cucirca.com/2011/07/06/watch-game-of-thrones-online/

Can't vouch for how legit it might be, but it does work and has all the episodes.

[FusRoDah]

Kat.ph has torrents for all episodes neatly organised in seasons and episodes etc. And they're uploaded Directly as they're aired.

[thesapien]

tvunderground.org.ru has been my favorite for years. I'd been using it for its eDonkey files, but it also has torrents. I stopped using the eDonkey eServers and eMule and e(all) for reasons mentioned earlier, but just installed uTorrent. I'll give it a go and see if any pirate trolls harass me.

 

Firefox has a torrent search plugin that includes searching Kat, simply called Better Torrent.

[d2vis]

Did you guys see the latest episode yet :X?

[Guest GingerTom]

Yes. It was shocking!

[thesapien]

I'm not shocked yet. I'm waiting to see what happened for sure. Then I might be shocked. If we're talking about the same thing? Kingslayer?

[thesapien]

I'm noticing lots of incest. I wonder if the author had a hot sister?

 

Joking aside, it would be kind of weird to be an author of such work and to have your family members reading or watching it, like with you there, and, now joking again, especially if you had a hot sister.

[Guest GingerTom]

No. We're not talking about the same thing--but the same episode. The end. (I don't want to give it away. Things might not be the way they looked--that's all I'll say. Like you, I'll wait for next week.)

 

(You sure you watched the whole thing?)

[thesapien]

Oh, that... (I just had to re-watch the ending to remind me) ... yeah, I guess I assumed nothing about it because I couldn't really tell what I was seeing. So more confused than shocked. Another one to wait and see.

[Kashked]

I have a strong feeling that what we 'think we saw' isn't what we actually saw... But with Game of Thrones you never know.

[d2vis]

I really like this screen capture of the latest episode.

 

 

 

"Wolves in a lion's den"

 

Are you guys loving the Arya and Tywin scenes as much as I?

 

 

[FusRoDah]

I really like this screen capture of the latest episode.

 

 

 

"Wolves in a lion's den"

 

Are you guys loving the Arya and Tywin scenes as much as I?

 

 

Yeah, They're awesome.

[thesapien]

Yeah, I was even thinking that Arya is one of the characters that most certainly should not be killed off. The backlash from the fans would be too immense.

 

 

 

 

[thesapien]

I have a strong feeling that what we 'think we saw' isn't what we actually saw... But with Game of Thrones you never know.

 

Ah, but what do you think you saw?

 

Actual spoiler for last episode below:

 

 

 

Just before, we were told about other kids living there who might get into trouble if their family was called upon for aid. Also, the corpses were revealed on the words of what happens to those who do such and such, as an example to others. So, what I think I saw was just that. I had no reason to assume he would make such a bad move as to kill his most important hostages should he find them. Maybe tho, cuz dude is stupid crazy. I still can't believe he didn't recognize his sister or even stop to consider asking if she was her before trying to sex it. Playing along then denial?

 

 

[Guest GingerTom]

I agree--that's what I thought. Remember: The old man was sent away.

[d2vis]

I have a strong feeling that what we 'think we saw' isn't what we actually saw... But with Game of Thrones you never know.

 

Ah' date=' but what do you think you saw?

 

Actual spoiler for last episode below:

 

 

 

Just before, we were told about other kids living there who might get into trouble if their family was called upon for aid. Also, the corpses were revealed on the words of what happens to those who do such and such, as an example to others. So, what I think I saw was just that. I had no reason to assume he would make such a bad move as to kill his most important hostages should he find them. Maybe tho, cuz dude is stupid crazy. I still can't believe he didn't recognize his sister or even stop to consider asking if she was her before trying to sex it. Playing along then denial?

 

 

[/quote']

 

 

Yeah I definitely agree with you that those two kids aren't Brann and (forgot his name), but those two kids Brann mentioned earlier.

 

BTW wanted to say that the actor who plays Theon is doing a fantastic job as him. You can see in this image how low Theon feels now.

 

[Kashked]

I have a strong feeling that what we 'think we saw' isn't what we actually saw... But with Game of Thrones you never know.

 

Ah' date=' but what do you think you saw?

 

Actual spoiler for last episode below:

 

 

 

Just before, we were told about other kids living there who might get into trouble if their family was called upon for aid. Also, the corpses were revealed on the words of what happens to those who do such and such, as an example to others. So, what I think I saw was just that. I had no reason to assume he would make such a bad move as to kill his most important hostages should he find them. Maybe tho, cuz dude is stupid crazy. I still can't believe he didn't recognize his sister or even stop to consider asking if she was her before trying to sex it. Playing along then denial?

 

 

[/quote']

 

 

Well, yes, but I think they noticed that someone was in the haystack, and set it on fire, never knowing that they didn't actually burn the right kids. Most likely it is the two orpahns they mentioned that got burned, but remember, Theon didn't know about the orphans, so he might very well have assumed that he got the right kids...