Guest Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 am I the only one who feel the game is way to small? I already beat the whole game, all non-repeatable quests and main quest 3 times. Comparing to Skyrim, where we have like 6 Major Cities, lots of quests besides the main, lots huge quest lines like The Dark Brotherhood, The Thieves Guild, the College... On Fallout 4 we have 2 cities... no significant quest-line besides the main. This is what is killing Fallout 4 on my opinion.
Guest Katherlne Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 am I the only one who feel the game is way to small? I already beat the whole game, all non-repeatable quests and main quest 3 times. Comparing to Skyrim, where we have like 6 Major Cities, lots of quests besides the main, lots huge quest lines like The Dark Brotherhood, The Thieves Guild, the College... On Fallout 4 we have 2 cities... no significant quest-line besides the main. This is what is killing Fallout 4 on my opinion. Skyrim empty place with a lot mountains and roads. Villages and cities small and empty. Main quest and guild quest boring (TDB quest line just a joke, if compare with line in Oblivion). If not of tons mods, i be never reach over 2k hours in Skyrim.
Kaz Aanh Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 am I the only one who feel the game is way to small? I already beat the whole game, all non-repeatable quests and main quest 3 times. Comparing to Skyrim, where we have like 6 Major Cities, lots of quests besides the main, lots huge quest lines like The Dark Brotherhood, The Thieves Guild, the College... On Fallout 4 we have 2 cities... no significant quest-line besides the main. This is what is killing Fallout 4 on my opinion. Its okay. Its 200 years since the bombs have been dropped so everyone is ded. Many are infertile due to the radiation exposure but those lucky with the great semen powers are trying to mate with the fellow wastelanders, breed as many as they can, and raise their kids as the raiders so they will bring to mommy and daddy many nice things. Its a long-term investment but its worth it. At least until some crazy ass vault dweller wakes up from his vault and wrecks shit over the world, reducing all human progress done to post-ww era times. And the cycle repeats again . . . Thats why its empty.
Darkening Demise Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 18 hours in and completed everything and the main quest. Bored. DLC will just be dungeon crawling like all other Bethesda DLC. There's nothing around but bland environments, but that's to be expected since its a wasteland. Its worse than Skyrim was with detail and content. No way is the world 'x2 the size of Skyrim'. That's bull. Along with the lacking dialogue, Mass Effect ripping off conversation system, karma system removal, forced voiced protagonist, lack of freedom for RP, and stats being restrictive and pointless besides to unlock something that does very little. No matter what you can't play as a evil character, in the end you're a goody goody two shoe mommy or daddy who helps one of the few factions that in the end do nothing but the same exact thing. There's no real city ruins to explore or interiors as well. Thankfully modding will come this year and we will have some of these major large quantity of issues fixed. Plus new locations and recreations will help with the lackluster environment and tiny world size.
Anbeegod Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 Story wise, Morrowind>FO3>FONV>FO4>Skyrim>Oblivion Gameplay mechanics wise, FO4>Skyrim>FONV=FO3>Morrowind>Oblivion RP wise, FONV>FO3>FO4>Morrowind>Skyrim>Oblivion Freedom wise, FONV>Morrowind>Skyrim>FO4>FO3>Oblivion
NickNozownik Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 Vanilla Skyrim is quite big but it's almost empty. Some crazed bandit or rabid animal here and there, that's it. There are more big questlines but they're really dull in my opinion, and there are very little dialogue options. Mods are the main reason why this game is so popular and alive to this day. So hopefully the same thing will happen to FO4. Modders will turn this OK game into something huge and stuffed with new content on every step. I honestly don't expect Bethesda to suddenly create something like Morrowind meets New Vegas meets Dark Souls meets Mount&Blade I played FO4 on my friend's PC and it wasn't terrible. I don't hate it.
Eth4rlad Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 It's a well designed World for an FPS with light RPG elements. It's a terrible world for an RPG though. Good Farcry clone/10
DocClox Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 Interesting. My own take on this: Story wise, Morrowind>FO3>FONV>FO4>Skyrim>Oblivion Morrowind, certainly. I'd put Oblivion next; a ringside seat for the drestruction of the Spetim Dynasty and the beginning of the end for the Empire of Tiber Septim. The fallouts, story wise are all a bit meh. NV probably has the best of them, so that next followed by Skyrim which had a decent narrative, if a little uninspired in places. F3 I dearly love, but the story is not the strongest part of the game to my mind. The Waters of Life metaphor gets undermined the first time you sleep to regain your health, and there are too many WTF moments to make a great story. That leaves F4 last; the "OMG!! Where's the baby?" aspect makes it hard to take the rest of it seriously. Gameplay mechanics wise, FO4>Skyrim>FONV=FO3>Morrowind>Oblivion This seems to presuppose that there's a right way to do game mechanics; I tend more to the view that different mechanics fit different games better. I mean Skyrim's combat mechanics are really quite good, but the perk system means that your character ends up converging on your play style and all your toons end up exactly the same. F4 has good cmoba mechanics, but the hideously ill thought out keyboard arrangement (and stupidities like binding power attack and grenade to the same key) make it hard to call gameplay good. I'd probably put Oblivion first here; it has one glaring point to its detriment in the levelling system, but the menus are well layed out, the combat is reasonable, and the game in general plays well. After that, I'd probably put F3 & NV joint, then Morrowind which much as I love it, has some very counterintuitive mechanisms in places. RP wise, FONV>FO3>FO4>Morrowind>Skyrim>Oblivion RP, I don't think anything beats Morrowind. You get a complete blank slate upon which to project yout character and the most permissive game world I've ever seen. Then I'd say Oblivion (the game has flaws but restricting who you can be isn't one of them) then NV, Skyrim and F3. F3 would be higher but it gets a technical deduction over the business of having the plot revolve around your family. NV would get a big markdown for Lonesome Road, but I didn't get on with that DLC and I'm pretending it didn't happen. Freedom wise, FONV>Morrowind>Skyrim>FO4>FO3>Oblivion For freedom, I don't think you can beat Morrowind. Anything that you should logically be able to do given the engine and the game world, you can do it. Right up to boosting your stats to game breaking levels, if that's your thing. F3 next, I think, followed by Oblivion though there's not much beteen them. F4 after that - once you get out of the damn vault there aren't many restriction. NV gets a severe markdown for all the times it made me run down through Primm and Nipton until I could recide the damn script along with the actors. To be fair to NV, it opened up a lot once you got to New Vegas itself. I'd just generally stopped caring by that point.
Anbeegod Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 Oblivion's story is lame. It has epic background and setting, but boring dialogues, processes and few remarkable worth-mentioning characters (only Martin and Sheogorath could be called essential characters to the story). Take the Skyrim Civil War as an example, "the civil war has caused so much innocent lives, that a child'd lose his pa before he's even born - this is not our war, but we have to pay for it; blood was spilled, hatred arise, and some still don't bother opening their eyes." Whereas, as we all can see, the civil war that is supposed to be so epic and tragic is none other than "take that city", "assault that fort". I guess you wouldn't agree the civil war questline is done well. It has great background, and that's it. Oblivion's story is exactly the same as the civil war is in Skyrim. You don't get to RP a lot in Oblivion either, given the dialogue options are basically simply keywords and short phrases like "Rumor", "Next task", "Sickness"; in short, Sheogorath has no emotion (quite the irony) and speaks almost nothing. You're not RPing as Sheogorath, you're only using them as a vessel in Cyrodiil and the Shivering Isles. The story in Shivering Isles is interesting though, beats the Dagon questline; still, far from a story-driven game such as FO. Basically, even Skyrim has better RP than Oblivion. At the very least, Dovahkiin is actually a character in the story who talks to other characters, and Sheogorath almost never does that. Oblivion has no freedom in story. It's yes or no, usually only yes or no, unlike NV, that you actually possess a lot of options to do one thing. As I said, Sheogorath doesn't talk much, so he doesn't do much either. The story of Oblivion is linear and chained, and there is no other result than the defeat of Dagon and the end of the true empire. With a fixed ending, I doubt how free the game could be. Also, there're hundreds of characters that you can't kill in Beth games ever since Morrowind. That can hardly be qualified as "free".
Sural Argonus Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 FO4 is open to DLC and modders. Vanilla Skyrim is quite boring and empty too, but it's been around so long that modders have filled up a lot of the empty space. The vanilla quest is short and extremely dull, tbh. If it wasn't for modded content, I'd have no reason to play Skyrim anymore. Hoping FO4 ends up the same way. I have refused to complete FO4 because of that.
Vuulgar Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 FO4 is open to DLC and modders. Vanilla Skyrim is quite boring and empty too, but it's been around so long that modders have filled up a lot of the empty space. The vanilla quest is short and extremely dull, tbh. If it wasn't for modded content, I'd have no reason to play Skyrim anymore. Hoping FO4 ends up the same way. I have refused to complete FO4 because of that. This is what I am feeling also, think of all the content that came to Skyrim in expansions, the main difference to me is the variety of characters is very limited at this time in FO4. I see modding as magic so I have no idea whats really even possible but if the Alt Start mods allow you to play a variety of characters this game will instantly be much greater....that and a motorcycle.
Anbeegod Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 FO4 is open to DLC and modders. Vanilla Skyrim is quite boring and empty too, but it's been around so long that modders have filled up a lot of the empty space. The vanilla quest is short and extremely dull, tbh. If it wasn't for modded content, I'd have no reason to play Skyrim anymore. Hoping FO4 ends up the same way. I have refused to complete FO4 because of that. This is what I am feeling also, think of all the content that came to Skyrim in expansions, the main difference to me is the variety of characters is very limited at this time in FO4. I see modding as magic so I have no idea whats really even possible but if the Alt Start mods allow you to play a variety of characters this game will instantly be much greater....that and a motorcycle. Except most of the dialogues and the MQ will make no more sense. Doesn't seem worth it to me.
alucrad90 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 FO4 main quest cotains those quests showed as "civil war""dark brotherhood" in skyrim I think the main problem of FO4 is there is no "settlement quests". They are now part of the endless quests, not well-designed story with named NPC
DocClox Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Oblivion's story is lame. It has epic background and setting, but boring dialogues, processes and few remarkable worth-mentioning characters (only Martin and Sheogorath could be called essential characters to the story). Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you're wrong here. I just find it interersting how we could rate the same games so completely differently. In the case of Oblivion, (and it applies to all the Beth games really) I tend to view the main quest as a framework rather that main the story as such. The story of the Oblivion crisis is interwoven with the return of Mannimarco and the near destruction of the Dark Brotherhood. Which is probably why I don't have a problem with the story. Even then, there are some memorable characters; Uriel Septim, Joffre, Mankar Camoran; Barus isn't really that interesting, but the Dremora are interesting enough that I'd probably consider them a character in the story. I don't think it does too badly even considered in isolation. You don't get to RP a lot in Oblivion either, given the dialogue options are basically simply keywords and short phrases like "Rumor", "Next task", "Sickness"; in short, Sheogorath has no emotion (quite the irony) and speaks almost nothing. You're not RPing as Sheogorath, you're only using them as a vessel in Cyrodiil and the Shivering Isles. See, I tend to view that as a positive. I don't want the game to give my character say clever things to say: that's my job. I'm happiest when the game projects as little personality onto my character as possible. Otherwise you end up with dissonance between the character conception my head and thing my character actually says. The PC in F4 endlessly banging on about missing babies and the desperate importance of family is a good example. It's not the character I want to play and the detailed player script detracts from my enjoyment of the game. Also, there're hundreds of characters that you can't kill in Beth games ever since Morrowind. That can hardly be qualified as "free". You know, that rarely bothers me? Of course, I tend think that the game world is more interesting with more NPCs than it is with less, so I tend not to kill without need. (Although there was this one epic fight when I decided I was going to do my best to murder Sidegeir - even so though, him being essential never struck me as me not being free. Each to his own, I suppose.
Whitemn Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I don't believe Skyrim was that open or bland. I played 200+ hours in a single playthrough without any mods. It wasn't probably until my 400th hour before I started to install the basic mods. Twice all that with mod's installed including Sexlab mod's. After few playthough's I was still noticing new things.
Anbeegod Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 As I said, an epic background doesn't necessarily bring an interesting story. I'm sure if you know what I mean, or will know, once you find out what the Skyrim Civil War is. Few characters in Oblivion have remarkable personality, the whole story is circling around those several characters, just like the Skyrim CW circling around the 7 people (Dovahkiin, Ulfric, Elisif, Tullius, Galmar, Rikke, Balgruuf), and all other characters related to CW aren't significant at all; whereas, in Oblivion's MQ, only Martin has got a personality, fewer than even the Skyrim CW. I understand that you don't take the MQ of Oblivion as the most important story of all, but let's be honest - the other stories aren't much more interesting than the MQ at all. DB and TG stories are only interesting in their very end, FG is quite boring, MG is the only good one among the guild stories with beginning, rising action, climax, falling action and ending. As for DLC, KotN is only a little more than a piece of shit, SI has the most interesting storyline in Oblivion. As for RP, I believe that an abundant amount of dialogue and action options can win score for a game's RP. You see, people see DAO as a successful RPG, but few would say Oblivion does a better job in RP. DAO provides a great variety of options for the player, so that the player can play exactly as the character they'd like to; whereas Oblivion does not allow the player to choose a lot of things, it doesn't even give a way to show your PC's personality. You see, freedom and RP are linked and contribute to each other, they are not different in many ways, and if freedom falls, RP collapses. I understand perfectly that you think such a system of dialogue options allows you to "decide" what kind of character your PC is, in your head - but that's it. The truth is, Beth's writers were simply throwing the job at you, so that they wouldn't have to think about the possibilities of Sheogorath's options of words; how you think your character is doesn't matter either, because if it isn't shown in the game, it's nothing more than fanfic and dreaming. If the PC of FO4 is written in the same way as the Courier, I surely won't complain about that. Indeed, the PC of FO4 has almost everything set, and the convenient diamond dialogue system has greatly limited the possible workload of Beth writers. The freedom is limited and RP isn't done well in FO4, as many would agree. And well, freedom isn't just about what a person would do, it's about what a person can do. You wouldn't say something bad about the government, and it doesn't really affect you if the government strictly ban criticism towards it, but fact is fact, that the government is limiting your freedom of speech. I'm sure you can spot the similarities.
Rorschach666 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Otherwise you end up with dissonance between the character conception my head and thing my character actually says. this. thats the reason why some people (including me) always create new chars over and over again. (unable to complete the game, at least during the first few attempts)
DocClox Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 I understand that you don't take the MQ of Oblivion as the most important story of all, but let's be honest - the other stories aren't much more interesting than the MQ at all. That's still kind of missing the point though. The story isn't the MQ, or any of the other ones; it's the story that emerges when you play the game and blend all those stories together, plus whatever else you might decide to get up to. It's different every time. I don't feel the story lacks for memorable characters, in part because all the characters in the game are potentiall part of that story. I understand perfectly that you think such a system of dialogue options allows you to "decide" what kind of character your PC is, in your head - but that's it. If that's what you understand then you don't understand my point at all The thing about Fallout and the TES games both, is that they have their roots very much in the old pencil and paper roleplaying games. Now I don't know if you ever played any of those, but they were basically an exercise in collaborative story telling. The Game Master created the setting, the NPCs and a an idea of the plot; the players created their characters and decided how they would interact with that setting, with the GM adjudicating the results. Now the reason that I (and many others like me) enjoy TES games so much is that they've offered that same expeience of collaborative creation through the medium of a computer game. So it's not a case of dialogue options letting me "decide in my head" who I'm going to be. That act of character conception is the first thing I do and it is fundamental to roleplaying games, for some of us at any rate. Minimal player dialogue doesn't allow the character to form; it just keeps out of the way and doesn't interfere with the narrative I create. The truth is, Beth's writers were simply throwing the job at you, so that they wouldn't have to think about the possibilities of Sheogorath's options of words; I can see how it might look like that to you. On the other hand, seen from my perspective they do an excellent job. It isn't easy at all to write any sort of story in a player neutral way, and having the the NPCs carry the burden of advancing the plot can be taxing in the extreme. If you've never tried to do it, you probably don't realise just how hard it is. Yet Beth do it apparently effortlessly for huge amounts of dialogue. how you think your character is doesn't matter either, because if it isn't shown in the game, it's nothing more than fanfic and dreaming. So if the game doesn't explicitly say something then it doesn't really happen? I'm starting to think we play these games in very different ways. As for RP, I believe that an abundant amount of dialogue and action options can win score for a game's RP. Meh. It can work, but it's a like comparing a choose-your-own-adventure book to a D&D campaign run by a good GM. You see, people see DAO as a successful RPG, but few would say Oblivion does a better job in RP Dragon Age: Origins is the game that made me swear never to touch another game from BioWare. I suppose it must have been doing something right since I can't think of another game that constantly infuriated me half as much as DA:O did without me giving up long before the end. Still, I'd be loathe to hold it up as a good example of anything. You see, freedom and RP are linked and contribute to each other, they are not different in many ways, and if freedom falls, RP collapses. I don't generally disagree with this. I mean I don't see that not being able to murder Jarl Siddeir in Skyrim is a major infringement on my freedom (and if I did, there's a mod for that) but on the broader point I agree entirely. Indeed, the PC of FO4 has almost everything set, and the convenient diamond dialogue system has greatly limited the possible workload of Beth writers. The freedom is limited and RP isn't done well in FO4, as many would agree. I wouldn't disagree with that either. Although I think the problem is less lazy writers and more running out of time and budget for voice acting. And well, freedom isn't just about what a person would do, it's about what a person can do. Would you really be able to roleplay any better if Oblivion had used the Morrowind approach of letting you murder anyone and then telling you "By this action, the thread of prophecy has been severed" and suggesting you reload a save? You wouldn't say something bad about the government, and it doesn't really affect you if the government strictly ban criticism towards it, but fact is fact, that the government is limiting your freedom of speech And yet having NPCs marked as essential in a computer game doesn't seem nearly as important to me as the prospect that a government might send me to jail for writing something that some official somewhere didn't like. I guess I'm just another filthy casual
AsariX Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 Just wondering, is it actually possible to add to the world space in a mod, as in, adding a new continent, similar to how the Dragonborn DLC added the new continent of Solstheim? Or even, extend the border of the default worldmap, kinda like how the Glowing Sea somewhat extends outside the Fallout 4 map? If either is possible (though it might require the CK), then that would mean we could expand the world ourselves. The Fallout 4 map is quite small, though the content density per square meter is a LOT higher than it was in Skyrim. But, that content density is also a problem: it leaves less space for modders to add content, since there's a fair chance for any addition to overlap with existing content, interfere with existing spawnpoints, and generally doing more damage than good by adding conflicts. In which case the modder would have to edit or remove such overlapping content to make his mod work, and I don't think that would be a good solution, since that doesn't add content, but only replaces it. The few places on the map that have a lot of room for a modder to add new stuff, are the Vault 111 hill and the boarded up houses in Concord, both of which are of very limited use, since the player is still very low leveled when passing through, so neither is a location where one could really add complex high level stuff. If anything, those two would be suitable for settlement modifications at best.. So, for new content, I'd rather see modders go outside the borders, and add stuff there. If possible, it might even be a good idea to make some "dedicated worldmap expansion team", adding more world to the map, but with designated empty "lots" for modders to use to add content. For all I care, give each cell a letter/numbercode, and if someone makes a mod for the extra worldspace, let them declare they are using "lot C7" or something. Players downloading and combining mods would then be able to pick what mod they use for each slot. One modder might use location C7 for a new village, another might make it a caravan stop with a tittybar, and someone else might make it a fortress under Super Mutant Control used for impregnating captured female settlers. For the players, it'd be a simple matter of "pick your poison, just keep an eye on which lot(s) each mod uses". Heck, some modders might even let you pick what site to use for their mod. Suggested name for such a world-space mod? "The Barrens" might work, since the purpose would be to add bare land, not content. Maybe a couple of spawnpoints for random encounters, but only enough to make traveling between the content added by modders more interesting.
Anbeegod Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 I understand that you don't take the MQ of Oblivion as the most important story of all, but let's be honest - the other stories aren't much more interesting than the MQ at all. That's still kind of missing the point though. The story isn't the MQ, or any of the other ones; it's the story that emerges when you play the game and blend all those stories together, plus whatever else you might decide to get up to. It's different every time. I don't feel the story lacks for memorable characters, in part because all the characters in the game are potentiall part of that story. I understand perfectly that you think such a system of dialogue options allows you to "decide" what kind of character your PC is, in your head - but that's it. If that's what you understand then you don't understand my point at all The thing about Fallout and the TES games both, is that they have their roots very much in the old pencil and paper roleplaying games. Now I don't know if you ever played any of those, but they were basically an exercise in collaborative story telling. The Game Master created the setting, the NPCs and a an idea of the plot; the players created their characters and decided how they would interact with that setting, with the GM adjudicating the results. Now the reason that I (and many others like me) enjoy TES games so much is that they've offered that same expeience of collaborative creation through the medium of a computer game. So it's not a case of dialogue options letting me "decide in my head" who I'm going to be. That act of character conception is the first thing I do and it is fundamental to roleplaying games, for some of us at any rate. Minimal player dialogue doesn't allow the character to form; it just keeps out of the way and doesn't interfere with the narrative I create. The truth is, Beth's writers were simply throwing the job at you, so that they wouldn't have to think about the possibilities of Sheogorath's options of words; I can see how it might look like that to you. On the other hand, seen from my perspective they do an excellent job. It isn't easy at all to write any sort of story in a player neutral way, and having the the NPCs carry the burden of advancing the plot can be taxing in the extreme. If you've never tried to do it, you probably don't realise just how hard it is. Yet Beth do it apparently effortlessly for huge amounts of dialogue. how you think your character is doesn't matter either, because if it isn't shown in the game, it's nothing more than fanfic and dreaming. So if the game doesn't explicitly say something then it doesn't really happen? I'm starting to think we play these games in very different ways. As for RP, I believe that an abundant amount of dialogue and action options can win score for a game's RP. Meh. It can work, but it's a like comparing a choose-your-own-adventure book to a D&D campaign run by a good GM. You see, people see DAO as a successful RPG, but few would say Oblivion does a better job in RP Dragon Age: Origins is the game that made me swear never to touch another game from BioWare. I suppose it must have been doing something right since I can't think of another game that constantly infuriated me half as much as DA:O did without me giving up long before the end. Still, I'd be loathe to hold it up as a good example of anything. You see, freedom and RP are linked and contribute to each other, they are not different in many ways, and if freedom falls, RP collapses. I don't generally disagree with this. I mean I don't see that not being able to murder Jarl Siddeir in Skyrim is a major infringement on my freedom (and if I did, there's a mod for that) but on the broader point I agree entirely. Indeed, the PC of FO4 has almost everything set, and the convenient diamond dialogue system has greatly limited the possible workload of Beth writers. The freedom is limited and RP isn't done well in FO4, as many would agree. I wouldn't disagree with that either. Although I think the problem is less lazy writers and more running out of time and budget for voice acting. And well, freedom isn't just about what a person would do, it's about what a person can do. Would you really be able to roleplay any better if Oblivion had used the Morrowind approach of letting you murder anyone and then telling you "By this action, the thread of prophecy has been severed" and suggesting you reload a save? You wouldn't say something bad about the government, and it doesn't really affect you if the government strictly ban criticism towards it, but fact is fact, that the government is limiting your freedom of speech And yet having NPCs marked as essential in a computer game doesn't seem nearly as important to me as the prospect that a government might send me to jail for writing something that some official somewhere didn't like. I guess I'm just another filthy casual Well, I guess we're pursuing different objects in games. Let's just enjoy the games in the ways we prefer. Just wondering, is it actually possible to add to the world space in a mod, as in, adding a new continent, similar to how the Dragonborn DLC added the new continent of Solstheim? Or even, extend the border of the default worldmap, kinda like how the Glowing Sea somewhat extends outside the Fallout 4 map? If either is possible (though it might require the CK), then that would mean we could expand the world ourselves. The Fallout 4 map is quite small, though the content density per square meter is a LOT higher than it was in Skyrim. But, that content density is also a problem: it leaves less space for modders to add content, since there's a fair chance for any addition to overlap with existing content, interfere with existing spawnpoints, and generally doing more damage than good by adding conflicts. In which case the modder would have to edit or remove such overlapping content to make his mod work, and I don't think that would be a good solution, since that doesn't add content, but only replaces it. The few places on the map that have a lot of room for a modder to add new stuff, are the Vault 111 hill and the boarded up houses in Concord, both of which are of very limited use, since the player is still very low leveled when passing through, so neither is a location where one could really add complex high level stuff. If anything, those two would be suitable for settlement modifications at best.. So, for new content, I'd rather see modders go outside the borders, and add stuff there. If possible, it might even be a good idea to make some "dedicated worldmap expansion team", adding more world to the map, but with designated empty "lots" for modders to use to add content. For all I care, give each cell a letter/numbercode, and if someone makes a mod for the extra worldspace, let them declare they are using "lot C7" or something. Players downloading and combining mods would then be able to pick what mod they use for each slot. One modder might use location C7 for a new village, another might make it a caravan stop with a tittybar, and someone else might make it a fortress under Super Mutant Control used for impregnating captured female settlers. For the players, it'd be a simple matter of "pick your poison, just keep an eye on which lot(s) each mod uses". Heck, some modders might even let you pick what site to use for their mod. Suggested name for such a world-space mod? "The Barrens" might work, since the purpose would be to add bare land, not content. Maybe a couple of spawnpoints for random encounters, but only enough to make traveling between the content added by modders more interesting. You absolutely can. There's a mod named Falskaar in Skyrim that adds a new worldspace into the game. Extending the world map is even easier, you just need to remove the map boundary and attach new lands to the original plate. But if you're saying something like the Glowing Sea, well... the Glowing Sea is a part of the FO4 map already, and it isn't exactly an extension to the map (engine wise). We won't need to worry whether it is possible to make new lands mods. We just need to worry will there be enough new lands mods for us to play by then.
Guest Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 Vanilla Skyrim is quite big but it's almost empty. Some crazed bandit or rabid animal here and there, that's it. There are more big questlines but they're really dull in my opinion, and there are very little dialogue options. Mods are the main reason why this game is so popular and alive to this day. So hopefully the same thing will happen to FO4. Modders will turn this OK game into something huge and stuffed with new content on every step. I honestly don't expect Bethesda to suddenly create something like Morrowind meets New Vegas meets Dark Souls meets Mount&Blade I played FO4 on my friend's PC and it wasn't terrible. I don't hate it. Ok, Skyrim. Lets take a look at the following VANILA questlines - Dark Brotherhood - Thieves Guild - Mage's College - Civil war (Imperial / Stormcloaks) - Companions All those quest lines are totally directed to a specific game play. Thieves guild full of lock picks, stealth, pick pockets. Brotherhood: assassinations, infiltration, disguise. Mages college, puzzles and magics. Civil War: Battles. Now lets try to find something similar on F04... We actually don't even have a quest line of reasonable size on F04 besides the main quest which is also VERY SMALL. Unfortunate, Fo4 was designed to be a fast-play... a generic shooter for generic players. The real fans of fallout and/or Skyrim got no respect here. I'm not saying it's a bad game, it's a good game, but pretty disappointing.
AsariX Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 You absolutely can. There's a mod named Falskaar in Skyrim that adds a new worldspace into the game. Extending the world map is even easier, you just need to remove the map boundary and attach new lands to the original plate. But if you're saying something like the Glowing Sea, well... the Glowing Sea is a part of the FO4 map already, and it isn't exactly an extension to the map (engine wise). We won't need to worry whether it is possible to make new lands mods. We just need to worry will there be enough new lands mods for us to play by then. Okay, so important bit: remove map boundery and attach new lands to original plate. Or take the Falskaar system, and set up a boat trip to some other area. The reason I mentioned the Glowing Sea, is, that it's extending quite a bit to the west of the rest of the map. So there are additional cells on the south-west side, but the north-west and mid-west directly above it are bordered off and inaccessible. Same on the south side, the mid-south and east-south bounderies are a bit more north than the southern bounderies in the Glowing Sea area. So, the idea I had, was to start out expanding the north-west and mid-west side of the map, and make it a haven for modders who want to add content. It'd be designed as a mod to put high in the load order, but with very little content, mostly landscaping, cut up into enough seperate cells for people to conveniently add stuff and limit conflicts between mods, and completely circumvent conflicts with original content. On the other hand, if I went the Falskaar method of making a seperate "continent", then I'd probably rather make it a really completely different location. The Isle of Skye near Scotland for example? But the problem with that is, that travelling to and from different "continents" is less convenient. It involves loading screens and stuff like that, making it less interesting to players, and because of that, also less interesting to modders who only need a nice place to build a castle or a tittybar or something. They'd generally want to blend such things in with the rest of the game, not move them to another continent. It's just that the worldmap has little space for such projects, and that's exactly what I'd like to do: provide space for it on the existing worldmap.
Anbeegod Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 You absolutely can. There's a mod named Falskaar in Skyrim that adds a new worldspace into the game. Extending the world map is even easier, you just need to remove the map boundary and attach new lands to the original plate. But if you're saying something like the Glowing Sea, well... the Glowing Sea is a part of the FO4 map already, and it isn't exactly an extension to the map (engine wise). We won't need to worry whether it is possible to make new lands mods. We just need to worry will there be enough new lands mods for us to play by then. Okay, so important bit: remove map boundery and attach new lands to original plate. Or take the Falskaar system, and set up a boat trip to some other area. The reason I mentioned the Glowing Sea, is, that it's extending quite a bit to the west of the rest of the map. So there are additional cells on the south-west side, but the north-west and mid-west directly above it are bordered off and inaccessible. Same on the south side, the mid-south and east-south bounderies are a bit more north than the southern bounderies in the Glowing Sea area. So, the idea I had, was to start out expanding the north-west and mid-west side of the map, and make it a haven for modders who want to add content. It'd be designed as a mod to put high in the load order, but with very little content, mostly landscaping, cut up into enough seperate cells for people to conveniently add stuff and limit conflicts between mods, and completely circumvent conflicts with original content. On the other hand, if I went the Falskaar method of making a seperate "continent", then I'd probably rather make it a really completely different location. The Isle of Skye near Scotland for example? But the problem with that is, that travelling to and from different "continents" is less convenient. It involves loading screens and stuff like that, making it less interesting to players, and because of that, also less interesting to modders who only need a nice place to build a castle or a tittybar or something. They'd generally want to blend such things in with the rest of the game, not move them to another continent. It's just that the worldmap has little space for such projects, and that's exactly what I'd like to do: provide space for it on the existing worldmap. I don't think this will be a good idea, most modders who intend to add new quests/stories would create their own lands instead. Besides, let's not neglect the possibilities that Beth is gonna make use of the "blank" lands in the DLCs. If you want to make new lands but don't intend to write stories or add dungeons, I'd advise you to add a new worldspace and find (a) partner(s) to do the other stuff.
Guest Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 Ok, Skyrim. Lets take a look at the following VANILA questlines - Dark Brotherhood - Thieves Guild - Mage's College - Civil war (Imperial / Stormcloaks) - Companions All those quest lines are totally directed to a specific game play. Thieves guild full of lock picks, stealth, pick pockets. Brotherhood: assassinations, infiltration, disguise. Mages college, puzzles and magics. Civil War: Battles. Now lets try to find something similar on F04... We actually don't even have a quest line of reasonable size on F04 besides the main quest which is also VERY SMALL. Unfortunate, Fo4 was designed to be a fast-play... a generic shooter for generic players. The real fans of fallout and/or Skyrim got no respect here. I'm not saying it's a bad game, it's a good game, but pretty disappointing. Actually same as the Fallout 3, just more polished. Can I ask you who do you mean by "The real fallout fans"?
windu190 Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 am I the only one who feel the game is way to small? I already beat the whole game, all non-repeatable quests and main quest 3 times. Comparing to Skyrim, where we have like 6 Major Cities, lots of quests besides the main, lots huge quest lines like The Dark Brotherhood, The Thieves Guild, the College... On Fallout 4 we have 2 cities... no significant quest-line besides the main. This is what is killing Fallout 4 on my opinion. Indeed. I am so craving for more content right now. There better be more DLC than Skyrim had. I'm checking every day, sometimes more than once, to see if there's news on the DLC yet.
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