[mod] [CK2] Dark World

[Aliris]

One thing I noticed with the new prisoner events, is that it's reading the title incorrectly with your character's name, rather than the victim. That is, it shows "The Violation of (Character)" rather than "The Violation of (Victim)".

 

Specifically, it's:

 

#.507 Prisoner is raped (captor)

narrative_event = {

id = DWRandom.507

desc = "DWRandom507"

picture = DWRandom_PrisonerMaleRapeFemale

title = dw_violation_of_self

 

 

I'm pretty sure this should be:

title = dw_violation_of_from

 

Also, the rape events seem to be firing really fast (was firing approximately every 20 days with certain prisoners), which makes it really really easy to rack up tons of piety from turning it down. Might want to reduce the piety gain a lot, or increase the base MTTH for the trigger event.

[Aliris]

 

To reform you need:

3 holy sites (Minimum)

50% authority

and 750 piety. 

 

So yes, you don't need all 5. However: 2 holy sites are in europe (really far from the others), 2 are controlled by the Abbisad Empire and one is in India. This is extremely unbalanced. Unless you start as the Abbisad Empire you have to fight them. Whether to claim the holy sites they control or to get into or out of India. 

 

 

I don't know about unbalanced, but it is exceedingly difficult. This was sort of why I suggested having different versions as heresies of the parent faith, so that each would have different holy sites which would be geographically aligned with them.

 

I think dewguru has probably wasted enough time on the religion bit though, so perhaps I could volunteer to create different versions of the faith (maybe like Western, Eastern, etc?) and then modify the events accordingly (so that if you're catholic you get the western sites, if you're muslim you get the eastern set, etc).  West might be Stonehenge/Holland/Rome/etc, Central might be Byzantium/Cyprus/Corinth/etc, Eastern might be Hebron/Bahrain/Uruk/etc.

 

Another thing might be putting in a religion for werewolves or vampires, that they start with rather than the default pagan. (Werewolves seem a lot more likely to have concubines than Lilithians, for that matter - too bad polyandry isn't moddable/implemented, though it's on the list of official suggestions).

[OmegaHeaven]

I like that it's difficult. Normally I find it too easy to conquer a corner of the world.

[dewguru]

 

 

Ones that I'm keeping as they are, are: Dipalpur, Hebron, Bahrein.

 

Those three locations have strong links to Lilith and her travels. The other two were just more or less tossed out there because Whiltshire is Stonehedge territory and Holland was because of its present den of sin and vice.

 

I'm fine replacing Whiltshire and Holland.

 

Keeping the other three - what would you recommend as a replacement for Whiltshire and Holland then?

 

 

I would recommend moving the holy sites from Whiltshire and Holland over to India or Nubia or Abssiyna. Or removing either Hebron or Bahrein and moving that one into Europe. As of right now, in order to reform the faith you are requiring players to fight the Arabian Emprire. (Either to get the two holy sites in their territory or to get trough to India.) It also forces an expansionist playstyle, which not everyone likes.

 

 

I already mentioned that moving Hebron and Bahrein wasn't going to happen.

 

I'm also not forcing anyone to play as an expansionist, because no one HAS to follow through and reform the religion.

 

Lilith wandered the Earth. More so than any other biblical or religious figure that I can think of, save possibly Cain, and as such, her holy places should indeed be spread out.

 

I like the idea of putting on in Abssiyna though, every time I see that one I think of the word Abyss. The other one may end up in Rome if I get no better idea, since Aliris mentioned it and I can't think of a better location for the last one.

 

[nrish666]

It was difficult. I started out as a female norse pagan in scandinavia. Charlemagne start. Was assigning all the germanic rulers children proper Lilithian tutors so they would be proper good(bad?) Lilithians when they inherited.

 

The english site was easy to get. I had to go against a United Middle Francia to get Holland. Luckilly I made a whole lot of pagan allies. 

 

3rd in Hebron was out of diplomatic range so I took over a convenient pagan country around the Croatian area. I had to wait around (and renew my claim on hebron a couple of times)for a convenient war to take up all the Arabic Empire army resources. Finally got one and was able to whittle away at counties in the Arabic Empire without getting abused by the arabs.

 

Finally had my 3 holy sites. Raided Rome and a few other places for the + to moral authority for sacking churches. Finally got my 50% moral authority. Woohoo reformed Lilithian church.

 

Hey I got a name change. I am now called Holy Husband Lucifer (was playing a male ruler at the time of reformation).

 

Then we have a problem. My government which I was on the way to getting from tribal to feudal after I reformed my church suddenly changed to nogovernment. The decisions to change from tribal to feudal or merchant republic have disappeared. 

 

I also seem to be stuck with all my counties be of the wrong type. Since nogovenrment seems to not have any kind of holding type.

[dewguru]

It was difficult. I started out as a female norse pagan in scandinavia. Charlemagne start. Was assigning all the germanic rulers children proper Lilithian tutors so they would be proper good(bad?) Lilithians when they inherited.

 

The english site was easy to get. I had to go against a United Middle Francia to get Holland. Luckilly I made a whole lot of pagan allies. 

 

3rd in Hebron was out of diplomatic range so I took over a convenient pagan country around the Croatian area. I had to wait around (and renew my claim on hebron a couple of times)for a convenient war to take up all the Arabic Empire army resources. Finally got one and was able to whittle away at counties in the Arabic Empire without getting abused by the arabs.

 

Finally had my 3 holy sites. Raided Rome and a few other places for the + to moral authority for sacking churches. Finally got my 50% moral authority. Woohoo reformed Lilithian church.

 

Hey I got a name change. I am now called Holy Husband Lucifer (was playing a male ruler at the time of reformation).

 

Then we have a problem. My government which I was on the way to getting from tribal to feudal after I reformed my church suddenly changed to nogovernment. The decisions to change from tribal to feudal or merchant republic have disappeared. 

 

I also seem to be stuck with all my counties be of the wrong type. Since nogovenrment seems to not have any kind of holding type.

 

Interesting. I'll see what I can dig up. Major kudos on the reformation though.

 

 

Edit: I found where someone ran into the same issue, who in turn received information on how to fix it. I had the part that once apparently was all that was needed, but one of the updates (doesn't mention which one) added the need to also make an entry in common\governments, which I'll do for the next update. I'll aim to have it out no later than Monday.

[OmegaHeaven]

I tried to copy your Lilithian/Were/Vampire trait inheritance system.

 

I can't get the event to fire; off the top of my head the issue is "is_triggered_only = yes"; but the line exists in your version of the events.

[Aliris]

The basic problem is that with a low moral authority, you're going to face a near impossible time trying to convert anyone. Your provinces and vassals are likely to convert to other religions as fast as you can convert them, if not faster (especially if you're trying to convert from a high authority one, like Catholic/Sunni).

 

Without having reformed, you're also limited in that you can't declare holy wars, and also can't demand conversion of your vassals and courtiers. You're also highly restricted in what laws you can pass, and in changing your succession law.

 

The standard strategy for any pagan, really, is therefore to reform as soon as possible, because if you don't, you're pretty much screwed.

 

Now, it's certainly not impossible as the person above outlined, it's just a lot harder than with most pagans.

 

I'd definitely say that having them closer is better - though again, it's going to restrict people on their start locations, if they're intending to turn to Lilithian.

[OmegaHeaven]

# .001 Child of an destrada receives the trait of one at birth (Child)
character_event = {
	id = DestradaInheritance.001
	
	hide_window = yes
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			real_father = {
				trait = destrada_blood
			}
			father = {
			   is_father_real_father = yes
			   trait = destrada_blood
			}
		}
	}
	
	immediate = {
		mother = {character_event = {id = DestradaInheritance.002 days = 1 }} # Mother learns the child inherited the trait
	}
}
# .002 Child of an destrada receives the trait of one at birth (Mother)
character_event = {
	id = DestradaInheritance.002
	desc = "DestradaInheritance002"
	picture = "GFX_evt_birth"
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	option = {
		name = DestradaInheritance002A
		FROM = {
				add_trait = destrada_blood
				add_trait = temperate
				add_trait = diligent
				add_trait = patient
				add_trait = kind
				add_trait = just
				add_trait = honest
				add_trait = trusting
			}
		}
}

A code snippet.

 

I checked Birth Events and the Bastardy chain also starts with Triggered only = yes; so Audax Validator must be wrong here and I am utterly clueless why my event is not firing.

[dewguru]

The basic problem is that with a low moral authority, you're going to face a near impossible time trying to convert anyone. Your provinces and vassals are likely to convert to other religions as fast as you can convert them, if not faster (especially if you're trying to convert from a high authority one, like Catholic/Sunni).

 

Without having reformed, you're also limited in that you can't declare holy wars, and also can't demand conversion of your vassals and courtiers. You're also highly restricted in what laws you can pass, and in changing your succession law.

 

The standard strategy for any pagan, really, is therefore to reform as soon as possible, because if you don't, you're pretty much screwed.

 

Now, it's certainly not impossible as the person above outlined, it's just a lot harder than with most pagans.

 

I'd definitely say that having them closer is better - though again, it's going to restrict people on their start locations, if they're intending to turn to Lilithian.

 

I actually usually play as pagans. I like rocking around as Vikings and making my own empire. I've only reformed my religion once in any play through I've ever done. It's just something I don't bother myself with when I play. So that's probably why I'm not grasping the same level of importance that some of you are.

 

For what it's worth, I've more chaplain motivation type events planned, where you'll be able to help them with conversions. Similar to how you can motivate your diplomat in obtaining claims.

# .001 Child of an destrada receives the trait of one at birth (Child)
character_event = {
	id = DestradaInheritance.001
	
	hide_window = yes
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			real_father = {
				trait = destrada_blood
			}
			father = {
			   is_father_real_father = yes
			   trait = destrada_blood
			}
		}
	}
	
	immediate = {
		mother = {character_event = {id = DestradaInheritance.002 days = 1 }} # Mother learns the child inherited the trait
	}
}
# .002 Child of an destrada receives the trait of one at birth (Mother)
character_event = {
	id = DestradaInheritance.002
	desc = "DestradaInheritance002"
	picture = "GFX_evt_birth"
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	option = {
		name = DestradaInheritance002A
		FROM = {
				add_trait = destrada_blood
				add_trait = temperate
				add_trait = diligent
				add_trait = patient
				add_trait = kind
				add_trait = just
				add_trait = honest
				add_trait = trusting
			}
		}
}

A code snippet.

 

I checked Birth Events and the Bastardy chain also starts with Triggered only = yes; so Audax Validator must be wrong here and I am utterly clueless why my event is not firing.

 

 

Where are you firing it from?

 

If you want it to fire on someone's birth, you'll need to add DestradaInheritance.001 to the on_birth event. on_action events are found in common > on_action. Those are ck2 hard coded triggers, that when something happens, it'll check for any associated events or random events to fire.

[zia]

Minor Bug: Succubus Chaplin Conversion is usable on a Chaplin of your religion. 

 

And moving Whiltshire/holland to Abyssinia and Rome would improve it a lot. 

 

At the very least attempt to keep them within diplomatic range (or atleast close to it)

[OmegaHeaven]

Where are you firing it from?

 

If you want it to fire on someone's birth, you'll need to add DestradaInheritance.001 to the on_birth event. on_action events are found in common > on_action. Those are ck2 hard coded triggers, that when something happens, it'll check for any associated events or random events to fire.

 

Thanks! I'm a total n00b at modding events, as you can see,

[dewguru]

 

Where are you firing it from?

 

If you want it to fire on someone's birth, you'll need to add DestradaInheritance.001 to the on_birth event. on_action events are found in common > on_action. Those are ck2 hard coded triggers, that when something happens, it'll check for any associated events or random events to fire.

 

Thanks! I'm a total n00b at modding events, as you can see,

 

 

No worries. I don't mind answer questions in most situations. The more folks that dabble in modding, the greater the chance of other cool mods coming into existence.

[Abraxis00]

There's quite a few reasons unreformed pagans are at a big disadvantage versus reformed religions and the religions that don't need reforming.

 

• Pagans are very limited in their government choices -- Elective Gavelkind only, for the most part.  (If you start as Feudal you can use Gavelkind, and if you're the right culture/religion you can use Tanistry or Ultimogeniture.)  Losing out on Primogeniture and/or Elective Monarchy makes your realm a lot less stable, especially as you get bigger.  They also can't increase Crown Authority past Limited.
• Pagans have triple the Short Reign penalty of non-pagans.  Not as much of a problem if you're immortal, but then you risk getting Incapable or Infirm the longer you live.  If you don't choose to be immortal, your heir's likely to spend the first part of their reign putting down internal challengers.
• If you start as Tribal, you can't become Feudal or a Merchant Republic while you're still an unreformed pagan.  You need to reform or convert.
• Pagans can't demand religious conversion from their vassals or prisoners.  They have to rely on the very small chance their chaplain will manage to make it happen.
• Pagans have huge penalties to religious conversion, especially if they're trying on established religions like Christianity or Islam.  (I tried a game as Matilda of Tuscany just now, and the annual odds of conversion were 0.08% -- that's eight chances in ten thousand.  I did a few calculations, and that means you have a 50% chance of having converted a single province after 866 years or so.)  Special events can speed that up, but still.
• Conversely, pagans are extremely vulnerable to getting converted to other religions.  After you spend 866 years converting your single province, it's liable to flip back to Christian within a decade if any foreign rulers think it's worth proselytizing.
• And all that's on top of the fact that pagans have horrible Moral Authority compared to reformed religions.  Any formal religion has automatic +20 Moral Authority, and that's on top of the fact that they're likely to have at least a few of their Holy Sites under their control.  Moral Authority gives bonuses to conversion or resisting conversion, and low Moral Authority leads to your provinces being likely to flip to heresies.  (As an aside, it would be neat to see a Lilithian heresy or two -- Luciferians, maybe, who reject Lilithine female dominance?)  Lilithians will be lucky to have even one of their Holy Sites at first, meaning 10 Moral Authority tops.

There's a reason pagan religions tend to gradually retreat over the course of the game unless the player intervenes -- the formal religions just have too many advantages.  Pagans get a few advantages -- defensive bonuses, subjugation wars -- but overall they just can't compete.  That, I presume, is why some of us want to reform the religion.  Building it up from nothing is going to be hard enough -- building it up from nothing while unreformed is nigh-impossible.

[dewguru]

There's quite a few reasons unreformed pagans are at a big disadvantage versus reformed religions and the religions that don't need reforming.

 

• Pagans are very limited in their government choices -- Elective Gavelkind only, for the most part.  (If you start as Feudal you can use Gavelkind, and if you're the right culture/religion you can use Tanistry or Ultimogeniture.)  Losing out on Primogeniture and/or Elective Monarchy makes your realm a lot less stable, especially as you get bigger.  They also can't increase Crown Authority past Limited.
• Pagans have triple the Short Reign penalty of non-pagans.  Not as much of a problem if you're immortal, but then you risk getting Incapable or Infirm the longer you live.  If you don't choose to be immortal, your heir's likely to spend the first part of their reign putting down internal challengers.
• If you start as Tribal, you can't become Feudal or a Merchant Republic while you're still an unreformed pagan.  You need to reform or convert.
• Pagans can't demand religious conversion from their vassals or prisoners.  They have to rely on the very small chance their chaplain will manage to make it happen.
• Pagans have huge penalties to religious conversion, especially if they're trying on established religions like Christianity or Islam.  (I tried a game as Matilda of Tuscany just now, and the annual odds of conversion were 0.08% -- that's eight chances in ten thousand.  I did a few calculations, and that means you have a 50% chance of having converted a single province after 866 years or so.)  Special events can speed that up, but still.
• Conversely, pagans are extremely vulnerable to getting converted to other religions.  After you spend 866 years converting your single province, it's liable to flip back to Christian within a decade if any foreign rulers think it's worth proselytizing.
• And all that's on top of the fact that pagans have horrible Moral Authority compared to reformed religions.  Any formal religion has automatic +20 Moral Authority, and that's on top of the fact that they're likely to have at least a few of their Holy Sites under their control.  Moral Authority gives bonuses to conversion or resisting conversion, and low Moral Authority leads to your provinces being likely to flip to heresies.  (As an aside, it would be neat to see a Lilithian heresy or two -- Luciferians, maybe, who reject Lilithine female dominance?)  Lilithians will be lucky to have even one of their Holy Sites at first, meaning 10 Moral Authority tops.

There's a reason pagan religions tend to gradually retreat over the course of the game unless the player intervenes -- the formal religions just have too many advantages.  Pagans get a few advantages -- defensive bonuses, subjugation wars -- but overall they just can't compete.  That, I presume, is why some of us want to reform the religion.  Building it up from nothing is going to be hard enough -- building it up from nothing while unreformed is nigh-impossible.

 

Uncertain what your point is. I'm aware of everything above, yet never saw the need to reform before and the only reason I did so was to just to see what it was like (and then I regretted it when I did because I lost the territory advantages at a time when I greatly needed them).

 

I understand that it's a valid play option. I'm also not going to make it easy and just toss all five holy sites next to each other. Folks wanted a custom religion, so I did some research and came up with a religion that I felt fit the theme.

 

If there are players like me who prefer to start around the British Isles, Scandinavia, or northern Russia most of the time, then we'll just have to deal with it.

 

Plus, taking the religion or not is an option, not a requirement.

 

Edit: I will say that I've converted to another religion in the past, adopted feudalism, and then flipped back to my pagan beliefs. All within the context normal game events and decisions. I'd imagine the key to this would be first converting the province where your capital resides, so you could flip back to the 'local religion', but it's doable if hitting feudalism is very important to someone.

[ktosiu69]

I have noticed a curious case of double dickery spreading amongst my male characters... Too late to go back to an earlier save, I tried cleaning via a scripted decision but there's always someone left with a dangling problem (no idea how to scope ALL characters - any_independent_ruler leaves revolt rulers out, for instance). Tried also purging the offending trait IDs from the savegame but I can't get a regex lock on to that particular row (e.g. trait={ bla bla DICKID bla bla } ). Any ideas? I'm using DW 0.64.b.

[dewguru]

I have noticed a curious case of double dickery spreading amongst my male characters... Too late to go back to an earlier save, I tried cleaning via a scripted decision but there's always someone left with a dangling problem (no idea how to scope ALL characters - any_independent_ruler leaves revolt rulers out, for instance). Tried also purging the offending trait IDs from the savegame but I can't get a regex lock on to that particular row (e.g. trait={ bla bla DICKID bla bla } ). Any ideas? I'm using DW 0.64.b.

 

Sorry, I've zero experience in cleaning up save files. It looks like that's from a period when some of the traits weren't locked down from potentially being random traits. So a dick size could be applied without the flag that in turn would be checked for before assigning another dick size.

[Aliris]

Generally speaking, unreformed is basically raiding barbarians that go to war constantly, but have zero centralization and can't hold on to a realm (it splinters every time there's a succession). Reforming on the other hand puts you more on par with the Christians/Muslims/etc, and is sort of an alternate path to what happened historically (converting to either Christianity or Islam). 

 

I still think that it's more appropriate to have different versions of the religion, that would be given out as a corruption/"the true way" of whatever religion the person is, and would different for people from different backgrounds. I think having it be a Pagan church would only really be appropriate if you were converting from Pagan. If you're converting from Christian/Islamic/etc, then it should be different based on that.

 

I can do the work breaking it out into different versions, and adjusting the appropriate event decisions - it won't be hard since only one version is likely to arise in the game. I won't bother if you're set on having it like this, but I do think a lot of people are going to assume they need to reform the religion, and will make that their primary goal.

 

 

[dewguru]

Generally speaking, unreformed is basically raiding barbarians that go to war constantly, but have zero centralization and can't hold on to a realm (it splinters every time there's a succession). Reforming on the other hand puts you more on par with the Christians/Muslims/etc, and is sort of an alternate path to what happened historically (converting to either Christianity or Islam). 

 

I still think that it's more appropriate to have different versions of the religion, that would be given out as a corruption/"the true way" of whatever religion the person is, and would different for people from different backgrounds. I think having it be a Pagan church would only really be appropriate if you were converting from Pagan. If you're converting from Christian/Islamic/etc, then it should be different based on that.

 

I can do the work breaking it out into different versions, and adjusting the appropriate event decisions - it won't be hard since only one version is likely to arise in the game. I won't bother if you're set on having it like this, but I do think a lot of people are going to assume they need to reform the religion, and will make that their primary goal.

 

I'm not opposed to the idea of including the additional religions in the mod if you're willing to do the necessary work.

[Aliris]

Sure. I think I may just add it as a separate religious family, as having it be a heresy of the various religions causes certain issues (One, they won't be treated as badly by the other sub-branches, i.e. Orthodox treat Catholic heresies just like Catholics, and vice versa, and Two, if the religion is defined as a heresy it could pop up randomly by event).

 

Another possibility might be just tagging it to one of the other subgroups that's largely unused, like Messalian, and maybe adding something else to make the other christian subgroups hate you? Or even just making a new subgroup of its own, possibly.

 

Might be worth also coming up with an appropriate heresy, such as a Luciferian (male-dominated) version, too?

 

Just let me know what you think is appropriate, and I'll add it up.

 

Namely - would you prefer it as a fully separate religion, or would separate variants of the major ones be better?

 

Alternately, I can create 3 versions of the pagan variant to provide regional holy sites (though it will otherwise look the same, as you shouldn't see more than one of them pop up in game).

[Aliris]

On a semi-related topic, there used to be a mod for CK2 called Mythos that focused on a lot of similar themes, albeit not with any sexual focus. The only version that I can find for download now is a horribly gutted shell of the old one, that someone tried to ressurect after it got abandoned (only to later be abandoned itself), and both it and the original I still have a copy of had some pretty serious bugs (like werewolves or other immortals just running absolutely rampant), but there were some interesting ideas, such as expanded versions of pagan religions, including a reform option for Hellenic (Greco/Roman), plus Druidic, Ancient Egyptian, and others, with corresponding events that could lead to a revival of those in their particular regions.

 

It also had mages, and various spell options, though some of them were rather unbalanced.

 

Still, if you'd like to take a look at any of it, or if any of it sounds interesting, let me know and I'll see if I can find other places to help add stuff. You've done some really awesome work so far, and if can do anything to contribute, I'd be happy to.

[Sakhmeth]

While Lilithian, I used the console to give me control of the five holy sites.

When I clicked reform, my government changed from feudal to "nogovernment", and all types of holdings became wrong type.

 

Update: I can use the set_government command to change it back to feudal, but upon conquering a province, or handing control of a barony over to a random vassal puts it back in "nogovernment".

[booya1991]

I've noticed that a lot of people, especially in my dynasty for some reason, becomes Whores right away. Is there a file i can modify, to scale this down a bit. At the moment 4/5 of my heirs are cheap whores. 

[Aliris]

Okay, so I have a current setup with an entirely new religious group, with three different regional variants, West, Central, and East. Each has a corresponding titular head they can create, and based off the original version. Each also has a corresponding (male chauvinist) Luciferian heresy.

 

Right now the holy site groups are:

West (Stonehenge, Holland, Granada, Ulster, Rome, primary site is Rome)

Central (Byzantium, Hebron, Korinth, Alexandria, Cyprus, primary is Hebron)

East (Bipalpur, Hebron, Bahrein, Uruk, Mecca, primary is Hebron)

 

The general idea is that you'll get converted in the event to the appropriate region based on your religion (Catholic = West, Orthodox = Central, Sunni = East, etc). I haven't touched any of that yet though.

 

Also - one thing that I thought of too, was that maybe you'd get special events related to the recapture of certain other sites that are part of the "greater faith" but aren't listed for your region. For instance, if you're set in the west, Lilith might come to you in a dream and talk about the time she spent in Hebron, and how you should recapture and rededicate it to her faith, and then if you do, you get a bonus of prestige and piety and such.

[Aliris]

So the one thing I seem to be having trouble with is getting the religious head to work properly.

 

Having it available to the character would seem reasonable, but somehow whenever the title goes to the character in my testing, it wipes out all succession laws, disqualifies their heirs, etc. This is a problem.

 

I can get things to work just fine, IF the religious head is independent (and the game happily invents a religious head for you), but this doesn't quite make sense to me, and is far from ideal.

 

Thoughts or suggestions?