Shadowhawk827 Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 I've talked about my issues with mod users insisting my mod works with EVERYTHING before. Just about everybody that replied to that thread agreed there has to be a balance between helping users and realizing some mods out there are either broken crap or crawling with hidden bugs & dirty edits. I'm tired of chasing a bug caused by other mods, period. The main issue I still get that KNOW is mod conflicts is Sentries attacking when they shouldn't. It's other mods trying to be clever and overwriting vanilla A.I. files, Factions and such. I'm thinking my solution at this point should be posting a notice explaining AGAIN that I've made none of those types of changes, and giving these users a self-diagnostic tree: For those having issues of unprovoked attacks by Sentries... I have to AGAIN explain the following: Dawnguard Sentries makes only 2 minor changes to vanilla assets, and the only script it really uses is it's own MCM menu. I had a full year of testing and 236 hours in the Creation Kit making sure this thing is as compatible as humanly possible. The mod works for almost 14,000 users between Steam, the Nexus and LL. The ONLY thing that causes this bug is conflicts with mods that make changes to vanilla game assets. A.I. Combat and Factions being the most likely changes. There are also over 40,000 mods that are CURRENTLY listed on the Nexus alone. It's not humanly possible for me to test EVERY mod that is or has been published anywhere, much less fair to ask me to do so. Here's how you can check your own mod list though: Before you even get started, make sure you're using SKSE 1.7.2 or higher and SkyUI 4.1 This mod was built with those. 1) Start disabling your other mods one at a time and launching the game again each time until the problem clears up. 2) Re-enable that mod, start the game again and see if the problem returns. I always double verify to make sure a change wasn't a fluke. 3) At that point, to be very thorough, I'd enable the other mods and make sure the problem is still gone. Rare though it be, there's a SMALL chance it could be more than one mod combining with this one for a conflict. 3B) IF you get a reappearance of the bad AI, uncheck the mod hat set it off, recheck as above. 4) Once everything is good, you can check the conflict causing mods with TES5edit. If you've never used it before, DO NOT use it without watching and understanding THIS TUTORIAL. Cleaning mods is easy if you do as the tutorial says. 5) At that point, IF the mod has stuff that got cleaned, you can try re-enabling it and resuming play. If you're still not sure what to do with TES5edit, or it doesn't see anything, THEN you can contact the other author and me, and at least I will see what I can do (I can't speak for other authors). Lastly, to make sure any garbage left by a bad mod is gone, you may want to use Skyrim Save Game Script Cleaner: So does that seem like a fair amount of help to give people on this situation? I don't want to leave them high and dry, but I refuse to be responsible for everybody's mod list and load order.
Guest Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah seems perfectly reasonable to me. This way you're giving people something to work with which is more than a lot of mod authors do when they're fending folk off.
RitualClarity Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Sounds good to me. You went even further and gave advise to help clean their saves as well.
Veladarius Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Faction conflict is the most likely cause, there are a lot of mods that make changes to them and they stay in the save game. I try to avoid mods that make major changes to npc's as they have a better chance of causing conflicts with other mods, especially if that mod or another that relies on those are added mid game.
Shadowhawk827 Posted June 4, 2015 Author Posted June 4, 2015 Faction conflict is the most likely cause, there are a lot of mods that make changes to them and they stay in the save game. I try to avoid mods that make major changes to npc's as they have a better chance of causing conflicts with other mods, especially if that mod or another that relies on those are added mid game. Preaching to the choir here. I've posted the same thing repeatedly on the Nexus comments section for my mod though and they STILL don't get it. I was rabidly careful to avoid making changes to vanilla factions & such. I guess that's one nice thing about learning to program in the 80s when languages were less specific; I had to learn to anticipate every way a user could F up using anything I wrote.
yatol Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Preaching to the choir here. I've posted the same thing repeatedly on the Nexus comments section for my mod though and they STILL don't get it. I was rabidly careful to avoid making changes to vanilla factions & such. I guess that's one nice thing about learning to program in the 80s when languages were less specific; I had to learn to anticipate every way a user could F up using anything I wrote. they can't understand things like conflicts if they never use tesedit the fastest way to take care of that problem, is to copy paste most of the things your esp use in it that way, if a mod edit those things, it no longer break your esp (it's your esp that will break that mod now^^)
RitualClarity Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I am a user. I have some understanding on the modding process (Opened TESedit etc play around with game editors GECK CK, etc). I can speak from experience. So long as the mod author gives clear instructions on what their mod do and some common conflicts (as the OP has done) Their job is basically done. If the User has problems beyond normal support (getting installed basic conflict resolution etc) it is the user's issue not the author's issue. It isn't the responsibility of the author to fix repair or even diagnose every users issues that have nothing to do with their mod. Conflicts with their mods that are reported should be check where possible, bugs checked if possible (bug reports etc) and if it is some other mods issue it is beyond the authors ability to fix not to mention responsibility. the fastest way to take care of that problem, is to copy paste most of the things your esp use in it that way, if a mod edit those things, it no longer break your esp (it's your esp that will break that mod now^^) Please don't.. .. That only creates other issues. In the end it would be which ever mod is on the bottom of the load order and not every mod can be on the bottom.... That is a very bad modding practice.. (Yes you are joking.. or at least I believe you are )
yatol Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Please don't.. .. That only creates other issues. In the end it would be which ever mod is on the bottom of the load order and not every mod can be on the bottom... . That is a very bad modding practice.. (Yes you are joking.. or at least I believe you are ) here's a backup of my esp, there's dozen of mods in requiem esp complicated to add new mods to that mess, too many things in it had a lot of conflicts with the unof patch loser winner conflict with a copy paste of that esp (renamed of course, to hide records that require merged esp) delete from unof patch, copy paste from merged esp then delete bye bye all those armors, spell, misc... that don't need anything from merged esp found a ton of copy paste without overwrite to delete in the unof patch after that, and there's some left (there can be something under cell, dialog... didn't delete those) perkus are probably leftover requiem it's in case you have a mod that edit those above it (only tried those 2, filtering take time)
...0... Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I am a user. I have some understanding on the modding process (Opened TESedit etc play around with game editors GECK CK, etc). I can speak from experience. So long as the mod author gives clear instructions on what their mod do and some common conflicts (as the OP has done) Their job is basically done. If the User has problems beyond normal support (getting installed basic conflict resolution etc) it is the user's issue not the author's issue. It isn't the responsibility of the author to fix repair or even diagnose every users issues that have nothing to do with their mod. Conflicts with their mods that are reported should be check where possible, bugs checked if possible (bug reports etc) and if it is some other mods issue it is beyond the authors ability to fix not to mention responsibility. the fastest way to take care of that problem, is to copy paste most of the things your esp use in it that way, if a mod edit those things, it no longer break your esp (it's your esp that will break that mod now^^) Please don't.. .. That only creates other issues. In the end it would be which ever mod is on the bottom of the load order and not every mod can be on the bottom... . That is a very bad modding practice.. (Yes you are joking.. or at least I believe you are ) This is so true and one biggest problems even today still some major mod makers made recent, ask to put there mod on bottom lol wtf? If that way i get conflicts i just remove it and don't use it anymore simple as that.
RitualClarity Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Please don't.. .. That only creates other issues. In the end it would be which ever mod is on the bottom of the load order and not every mod can be on the bottom... . That is a very bad modding practice.. (Yes you are joking.. or at least I believe you are ) here's a backup of my esp, there's dozen of mods in requiem esp complicated to add new mods to that mess, too many things in it had a lot of conflicts with the unof patch loser winner conflict with a copy paste of that esp (renamed of course, to hide records that require merged esp) delete from unof patch, copy paste from merged esp then delete bye bye all those armors, spell, misc... that don't need anything from merged esp found a ton of copy paste without overwrite to delete in the unof patch after that, and there's some left (there can be something under cell, dialog... didn't delete those) perkus are probably leftover requiem it's in case you have a mod that edit those above it (only tried those 2, filtering take time) Those are your personal fixes for conflicts, correct (there isn't anything in the spoilers ). Nothing at all is wrong with that, in fact it is great thing to do for your load orders. You have the skill and capability to do these fixes and absolutely no reason not to. Because of this you can combine and work with mods that others less skilled can only dream of. . I done that (except I created a separate patch to drop below the conflicted mods.. I am so proud of myself.. lol) to do the same thing so that if I did something stupid or later had some problems I could remove it and test the original mod. You know in case sometime in the future I wanted to or needed to remove a conflicting mods. I did this with COT and some water mods that didn't like to play properly with each other. Mostly it worked sometimes the water in small locations would "vaporize".. I am a user. I have some understanding on the modding process (Opened TESedit etc play around with game editors GECK CK, etc). I can speak from experience. So long as the mod author gives clear instructions on what their mod do and some common conflicts (as the OP has done) Their job is basically done. If the User has problems beyond normal support (getting installed basic conflict resolution etc) it is the user's issue not the author's issue. It isn't the responsibility of the author to fix repair or even diagnose every users issues that have nothing to do with their mod. Conflicts with their mods that are reported should be check where possible, bugs checked if possible (bug reports etc) and if it is some other mods issue it is beyond the authors ability to fix not to mention responsibility. the fastest way to take care of that problem, is to copy paste most of the things your esp use in it that way, if a mod edit those things, it no longer break your esp (it's your esp that will break that mod now^^) Please don't.. .. That only creates other issues. In the end it would be which ever mod is on the bottom of the load order and not every mod can be on the bottom... . That is a very bad modding practice.. (Yes you are joking.. or at least I believe you are ) This is so true and one biggest problems even today still some major mod makers made recent, ask to put there mod on bottom lol wtf? If that way i get conflicts i just remove it and don't use it anymore simple as that. Yes I agree or you can do what yatol does (mentioned above) for his/her mods. . In any case these examples are excellent ones on what isn't any responsibility of the original mod author along with several different ways to resolve the issue. (create a patch, fix the mod for personal use, or remove the mod all together)
yatol Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 You have the skill and capability to do these fixes and absolutely no reason not to. doing things like that is stupid but i am too stupid to use a better way^^ here's one mod a make a npc 00xxxxxx protected mod b give a new head to that npc the skyre ini add perks to that npc when you load the java thing, it add the ini edits to your load order, that npc have the new head and perks (but it's no longer protected as that was removed by mod) to have both, many are wasting hours with conflicts filter in tesedit, to put a patch ab under mod b if that java thing can add ini edits to an esp a java thing that create an ini from esp could be made too it compare mod a npc with the one from esp 00, difference is the npc is protected, this is put in the ini for that npc mod a ini make that npc protected mob b ini give a new head to that npc skyre ini add perks to that npc in the esp created by the java thing, that npc is protected, have the new head, and the perks a dangerous tool mod a is nice, mod b is nice, but mod a + mod b, you can't know what you will get some month ago, asis gave skyrim and perkus perks to some revenge of the ennemies npc, i was destroyed by rambo
Gameplayer Posted June 6, 2015 Posted June 6, 2015 I'm thinking Better Vampires might be an issue with your mod with the added Dawngaurd to cities.
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