What are your thoughts on lore mongers?

[Youwish1]

Just curious as to what people think about lore mongers. Now when i say this i don't mean people that enjoy lore in general, i'm talking about the ones that go around having a fit if something is not lore friendly.

People that criticize other peoples work because it doesn't "fit in" with skyrim or just any game in general!.. People that tend to think that being a lore monger gives them a right to be elitist about it.

 

Kind of a little rant of mine i suppose but i actually hate closed minded people, one track minds that refuse to expand their horizons and think outside the box.

 

So i'm curious, what do YOU think ?

[Guest]

Fuck 'em. Lol

[Valgo]

Depends:
I only had lore friendly mods installed as well and I stayed away from Jeans/Shirt/Snkeaers Mods or cellphones and stuff.

I just wouldn't insult anyone who see's it otherwise.

 

Then again I'll definitly install the Thomas the Tank Engine Mod that replaces Dragons with Trains...that have faces, just because: Fun.
I'll most probably delete it after a day or so already because it kiiinda breaks the immersion..although in a hilarious way.

[Shadowhawk827]

I used to be a RP'er in City of Heroes and a few other MMOs,

 

They were a big part of what killed it for me.  Keeping things reasonably lore friendly is a good idea IMO.  I don't want guns in Skyrim because it's a fantasy setting.  If I want guns I'll play Fallout.  Lore can be bent with a little suspension of disbelief though.  Magicka Sabres is a good example there.  Yes, it actually adds lightsabres from Star Wars to Skyrim, but the different handles and the explanation of using magicka and not laser energy make it close enough to lore friendly for me.

 

Long story short I believe in balancing lore with fun and telling a good story.

 

Lore Nazis ruin everything.  The worst part is they're selective in what they'll snipe at.  In DC Universe Online, I had a Kryptonian character that was Zod's neice.  Heroine too; she hated Zod for what he had done to the family name.   II even RP'ed her kicking him in the nuts at the end of the Fortress of Solitude raid and had her go "No, YOU kneel before Zod, you bastard" lol.  My character was attacked on all sides for the tiniest details in her origin story though, and by idiots that were playing characters with twisted origins from other games and that were so godmoded they made the Beyonder look like Aunt May.

 

The really annoying part was half the idiots sniping at me didn't even understand the game was set in an alternate reality of pre Flashpoint / New 52 DC comics.

 

Don't even get me started on the Lore Nazis at Star Wars; The Old Republic.  Half those morons don't even know what era the game is set in but still want to preach.

 

Long rant short, being a lore nazi is just trolling while really showing you have even less of a life than the typical troll.

Depends:
I only had lore friendly mods installed as well and I stayed away from Jeans/Shirt/Snkeaers Mods or cellphones and stuff.

I just wouldn't insult anyone who see's it otherwise.

 

Then again I'll definitly install the Thomas the Tank Engine Mod that replaces Dragons with Trains...that have faces, just because: Fun.
I'll most probably delete it after a day or so already because it kiiinda breaks the immersion..although in a hilarious way.

 

Completely agree.  While I generally prefer reasonably lore friendly mods, the silly ones can be fun also.  Besides, a game like Skyrim is single player, so you're only breaking your own immersion by using Thomas the Tank Engine.  It doesn't effect anybody else. 
 

[Corpus Vile]

My opinion on loremongers is that, while they do like the general idea of a given mod, they hate the fact that some of its features don't fit in the setting, completely ruining it for them.
So, since they can't mod themselves, they get frustrated, and post while angry; thus they lose. Lose what?

Nowhere is safe, ever.

 

[Guest endgameaddiction]

I call them lore-whores. They can swim in a pile of shit for all I care.

[GimmeBACON]

I don't really care about lore per se, I just stay away from anime mods because they don't interest me, and feel a bit too out of place for me. I still believe that people should be able to enjoy their game the way they want to, and if they want to walk around in some Naruto outfit, more power to them.

 

On topic, I think that the authors who put their effort into making a mod, and get harassed have more of a right to be irked by these people. 

[xarathos]

As far as I'm concerned once you have magic in a world by default, you've pretty much got free reign to do whatever makes you comfortable as long as it makes sense in your own head - call it a corollary to Clarke's Law. Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

 

After all, the 'rules' of what makes medieval fantasy are pretty arbitrary and we've been gargling JRR's nutsack for enough decades now. It's a fantasy game, and with mods it's your fantasy. That can, and kind of should, be able to mean anything.

 

Me, I like my own world 'internally consistent,' but what that means is easily bent. Some friend of mine talked me into this headcanon thing where tamriel, thedas, and ... whatever continent Dark Souls takes place on ... are all on different parts of the same globe (why not, they have thematic links, might as well throw in some geographical ones) which justifies one chunk of my mod list. And the heavily implied crossover easter eggs between Dragon Age and Mass Effect justify the rest.

 

Point is: who are any of us to tell someone else they're having fun 'wrong'? It's supposed to be fun. We're all nerds, okay. Why would you pick on somebody else for enjoying their elves and dwarves the wrong way, there's no wrong way to like elves and dwarves.

 

... Okay, there probably IS a wrong way, but I don't really visit those kinds of websi-- oh wait. I'm here. Never mind.

 

None of which is to say that I don't like knowing the lore. Because I do. It's very valuable to know which rules you're planning to break later.

[Serithi]

This thread even needs to exist? Of course it's an issue, same as antitheism and similar behaviour. You're certainly free to have your beliefs or lack thereof, just have the common courtesy not to go around shoving it down people's throats either way.

 

I'm a lore purist through and through, and even with Sexlab and related mods i don't give too much more leeway (i don't even use them in my main playthoughs, too much script weight and i wouldn't really be making much use of them anyway). There's quite a few mods out there that i will never touch with a 20' pole. But i'm not going to be an asshole and say "THIS BREAKS THE LORE AAAAGH" if it's self-evident that it's not meant to be lore-friendly. I will say something if it's proclaiming to be lore-friendly and yet there's issues, and i'll point out said issues so they can be rectified (maybe someone dealing with the deeper, more obscure lore, might be getting stuff mixed up. I don't claim to be an expert, but i have taken the time to learn this stuff and am always on the lookout for more). Sure, the game's yours to mod to your heart's desire, but personal headcanon doesn't override the game's own canon, and the accepted definition of "lore-friendly" is, you know, friendly to the official lore and not your own .

 

I will always, always err on the side of having things look and be as they're meant, which is to say i will never use EEO, majority of Apachii hairs, stuff like that. That's not how they're portrayed or meant to be portrayed. But i'm not going to tell you you shouldn't use them, that's your decision to make, not mine.

[Youwish1]

As far as I'm concerned once you have magic in a world by default, you've pretty much got free reign to do whatever makes you comfortable as long as it makes sense in your own head - call it a corollary to Clarke's Law. Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

 

After all, the 'rules' of what makes medieval fantasy are pretty arbitrary and we've been gargling JRR's nutsack for enough decades now. It's a fantasy game, and with mods it's your fantasy. That can, and kind of should, be able to mean anything.

 

Me, I like my own world 'internally consistent,' but what that means is easily bent. Some friend of mine talked me into this headcanon thing where tamriel, thedas, and ... whatever continent Dark Souls takes place on ... are all on different parts of the same globe (why not, they have thematic links, might as well throw in some geographical ones) which justifies one chunk of my mod list. And the heavily implied crossover easter eggs between Dragon Age and Mass Effect justify the rest.

 

Point is: who are any of us to tell someone else they're having fun 'wrong'? It's supposed to be fun. We're all nerds, okay. Why would you pick on somebody else for enjoying their elves and dwarves the wrong way, there's no wrong way to like elves and dwarves.

 

... Okay, there probably IS a wrong way, but I don't really visit those kinds of websi-- oh wait. I'm here. Never mind.

 

None of which is to say that I don't like knowing the lore. Because I do. It's very valuable to know which rules you're planning to break later.

This comment is spot on . If only everybody had this kind of rational thinking this world would be a much better place. I've always thought that, the mentality of *games are fun, just enjoy them for what they are*. That goes for everything too, music, movies etc..except the latest final fantasies, and that is because square is going in a terrible direction, being there from the start i know how much they have changed. It's one of those...well...you know....but i usually respect other peoples opinions on it.

 

The only lore i really care about is from dark souls, but not in a nonsensical kind of way just because it's always open for interpretation.

My favorite part of that lore being "artorius". That i will argue about but only because a TON of people dismiss his *being left handed theory* but i never really rage about it, i usually just give people the clues and sources to the things that solidify that fact. My point is that dark souls lore is such a passionate subject because a lot of it and it's theories were made from people making up their own lore, whether it was from role playing or just imagination, and a lot of it turned out to be true.

 

Oh shit i started rambling ^~^, forgive me XD

 

So basically my point is, who're we to deny others their fantasy ?. If the dark souls community was like that it wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is. Though elitism in that community is so damn real :T

[Jexsam]

Lore-mongers are rude. It's all well and good to have a preference for how pure you like your game to be, but specifically attacking other peoples' work for having things you don't like in them is distasteful and childish. Imagine if I were going around specifically quoting every post with screenshots from that stupid Aether Suite mod - I'd be a huge dick. Instead, I keep my damn mouth shut. Because no matter how dumb Aether Suite is, other people have a right to like and use it. It's not my place to bash them or their screenshots.

 

Usually the only things that prompt me to reply on lore-based stuff are either idiots falsely claiming their shit is lore-friendly or people legitimately asking for input on how to stay within lore-friendly bounds on their projects.

[Rayblue]

I don't want to listen to some people who tell me how I should mod according to their tastes -- I define my own lore, pick what mods I want to use, I roll a character and play the game for fun as it should be, rather than wasting time trying to judge whether it fits into Kirkbride's vision or not.

[Serithi]

Lore-mongers are rude. It's all well and good to have a preference for how pure you like your game to be, but specifically attacking other peoples' work for having things you don't like in them is distasteful and childish. Imagine if I were going around specifically quoting every post with screenshots from that stupid Aether Suite mod - I'd be a huge dick. Instead, I keep my damn mouth shut. Because no matter how dumb Aether Suite is, other people have a right to like and use it. It's not my place to bash them or their screenshots.

 

Usually the only things that prompt me to reply on lore-based stuff are either idiots falsely claiming their shit is lore-friendly or people legitimately asking for input on how to stay within lore-friendly bounds on their projects.

Spot-on. To be fair, Aether Suite has its uses depending on what you need it for. But Halofarm's basically much said the thing has more of an excuse plot right now as opposed to something fully fleshed-out, not enough for me to use it in my actual playthrough, just for screenshots if i ever need one set in it.

[Youwish1]

 

Lore-mongers are rude. It's all well and good to have a preference for how pure you like your game to be, but specifically attacking other peoples' work for having things you don't like in them is distasteful and childish. Imagine if I were going around specifically quoting every post with screenshots from that stupid Aether Suite mod - I'd be a huge dick. Instead, I keep my damn mouth shut. Because no matter how dumb Aether Suite is, other people have a right to like and use it. It's not my place to bash them or their screenshots.

 

Usually the only things that prompt me to reply on lore-based stuff are either idiots falsely claiming their shit is lore-friendly or people legitimately asking for input on how to stay within lore-friendly bounds on their projects.

Spot-on. To be fair, Aether Suite has its uses depending on what you need it for. But Halofarm's basically much said the thing has more of an excuse plot right now as opposed to something fully fleshed-out, not enough for me to use it in my actual playthrough, just for screenshots if i ever need one set in it.

 

Oh yeah i remember reading about that in something, props to him for at least trying though

[Shadowhawk827]

Blarrgh, I think most (if not all) of us have no issue with purists like you who don't beat others upside the head with their views.  I'm fairly close to your view myself. 

 

The ones we're bashing here are the ones that DO insist everybody play their way.  Doubly so when, as I pointed out in my earlier post, they don't know their ass from a hole in the wall on lore in the first place, lol.  What do you mean the Falmer and the Dwemner aren't the same thing?   Yes they are, noob!   *headdesk*

 

I think from the tone of your replies you already got this point anyway, but I'm putting it out there just for the heck of it and to up my post count 

[Cynical Misanthrope]

I don't care. I am not a lore-whore. In a SP-game, I think the player itself decide what the lore is. Granted, I have seen mods that I would never use, because I don't think it fits my version of how the game should be, such as anime, cars, and futa mods etc etc. But I would never start to argue with someone just because they like to use these mods.

[Youwish1]

Blarrgh, I think most (if not all) of us have no issue with purists like you who don't beat others upside the head with their views.  I'm fairly close to your view myself. 

 

The ones we're bashing here are the ones that DO insist everybody play their way.  Doubly so when, as I pointed out in my earlier post, they don't know their ass from a hole in the wall on lore in the first place, lol.  What do you mean the Falmer and the Dwemner aren't the same thing?   Yes they are, noob!   *headdesk*

 

I think from the tone of your replies you already got this point anyway, but I'm putting it out there just for the heck of it and to up my post count 

I see somebody is a fan of the deep and snow elves

[Shadowhawk827]

 

Blarrgh, I think most (if not all) of us have no issue with purists like you who don't beat others upside the head with their views.  I'm fairly close to your view myself. 

 

The ones we're bashing here are the ones that DO insist everybody play their way.  Doubly so when, as I pointed out in my earlier post, they don't know their ass from a hole in the wall on lore in the first place, lol.  What do you mean the Falmer and the Dwemner aren't the same thing?   Yes they are, noob!   *headdesk*

 

I think from the tone of your replies you already got this point anyway, but I'm putting it out there just for the heck of it and to up my post count 

I see somebody is a fan of the deep and snow elves

 

 

Who me?!?      >_>

 

It's not like I killed every living thing in the Camona Tong corner club back in Morrowind and used the club as a storehouse for every Dwemner goodie not nailed down...   O_O  

 

 

     

[Mud]

Lore or not, the key part is the trying to insult and belittle others for liking different things. Regardless of topic, regardless of what side they're on, that lot can just go screw off.

[Captain Cobra]

They should really read up on the lore before lambasting the things that they think aren't lore friendly.  Gunpowder has been in Tamriel for a long time...

[Guest]

I have a fairly healthy respect for lore in games generally, I think if you're a roleplayer it tends to be part of the tool set. I suspect a lot of lore hounds are just people overcompensating for a lack of empowerment in their actual lives. They're often very dull to deal with. 

[bigdog190]

I like the lore in games, but in games like skyrim it gets bent and twisted and duct taped back together to fit my wants/needs as do some of the mods in my list.

 

for example the stormclaoks and Imperials have rifles in place of bows, Stormclaoks get flintlock rifles from this mod http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26653/?Imperials get a imperial themed one yanked out some imperial legion overhaul addon. for my lore in my game it works, now guns in skyrim does not float everyones boat but i respect that, 

 

other games like mass effect the lore is awesome as it is. Even better than most games because it comes with clear explanations on how things work according to the game lore. normally id be pissed when Mass Effect 2 introduced ammo count to the mix but the lore made it make sence so i rolled with it. if Mass Effect was as moddable as Skyrim and a mod turned reapers into giant "Thomas the Tank Engines" id quietly move along and keep any thoughts to my self.

 

Perfect World Scenario (for me), Skyrim open-worldness and ease of modding meets Mass Effect gameworld and characters etc

 

 

[noodles1976]

I'm not a lore monger by any stretch of the imagination, I like to keep my games in a state of reasonable proximity to the original design. I'll use mods that are influenced or taken from other sources, but at least fit into a high fantasy game like Skyrim...like LoTR weapons or something like that.

 

However, I don't feel a responsibility to be some kind of forum vigilante running around telling people that what they like to use in their own game is wrong because it doesn't fit into my own personal view. If I see something that doesn't suit my tastes, I just move along without comment...or just post a kindly word about the effort made by the author who created something. I might not use their mod, or care for the content in the screenshot or whatever...but I respect the effort at least. I don't think I have the right or am entitled to try and force somebody to agree with my opinion.

 

I just see the really aggressive lore mongers as trolls...just some random person out there trying to evoke some kind of negative response for shits 'n' giggles. I ignore them, and move on to the next comment. It's not like they're a personal friend of mine whose point of view is something I value, or a forum member that I regularly converse with.

 

N~dles

[Serithi]

They should really read up on the lore before lambasting the things that they think aren't lore friendly. Gunpowder has been in Tamriel for a long time...

And not just gunpowder, since to be fair cannons and the like were around for quite a long time before firearms were IRL. As i understand it, as of TESA: Redguard (set late 2E, middle of Tiber Septim's conquest), they either have or were working on firearms (which would keep with the game's "Golden Age of Piracy" theme, flintlocks and the like), though i wish they'd flesh that bit out if it's true. I don't have firearms in my Skyrim on account of they haven't been properly confirmed yet, but i will just say that if we put late 2E as roughly our Golden Age of Piracy (1650s to 1730s), TES should realistically be a lot closer to modern-day stuff by now. Between Redguard (2E 864) and Skyrim (4E 201) is a full 666 years. It would actually be long past modern day for us, well into the 22nd or 23rd century.

 

Sure, there's a point to be made about the medieval fantasy theme, and fair enough you can slow the progress down somewhat. But a good fantasy has a basis of realism, so my question is where the hell muh soulgem-powered propulsion devices are ;-;. Sure, staves are kind of the TES version of firearms, but you'd think someone would've realized magic resistance is a thing, looked at bows and crossbows, and thought "hey, wait a minute...". Step it up, Bethesda .

[Shadowhawk827]

Yah know, now that you mention it, I *do* recall seeing gunpowder in Redguard.  It's been ages since I played that game.  Cyrus the Redguard Sentry in Riverwood in my mod is named after the protagonist though.  Bet nobody caught that.

 

But yeah, I do vaguely remember gunpowder and I think they showed or mentioned ship's cannons also.

 

EDIT:  TO be fair about the lack of development of firearms by Skyrim's time though, the presence of magic always seems to slow the development of technology in fantasy settings.  The existence of the one tool lessens the need for the development of the other.