[WIP] Devious Keyholders

[Kalarr]

I was playing with this mod tonight.  Observations

1) The speech dialogue directed to Mistress which initiates this appears on all people and dogs.  Males, Females and dogs do give different responses.  

2) I got the book and read it to find recommended keyholders. No quest initiated.

3) I wandered over to Elsief and she accepted keys. I had her give keys to other ladies. Then the book initiated the quest to find those keys.

4) I asked Elsief if I can give her all my keys - they started getting Donated to her.

5) The keys Elsief gave out were also donated and not retrievable.

6) I asked Elsief if I could stop sending her keys.  She told me that I can do what I want.  All keys keep getting donated.

7) I asked Elsief to leash me.  She agreed.  Now I'm walking around and being told that the Leash isn't the area.  No penalty - course your note says this is a TODO.

 

Only issue was with the request to stop donating.  Apparently once keys start getting sent, they always get sent.  

 

Of course, as soon as all keys get sent, Cursed Devices threw me into a Heavy Yoke - no way to get a key in my inventory so no way to get released.  And apparently someone changed something so the cart drivers won't transport me with a Heavy Yoke.  Brutal.  

 

 

Anyway - nice mod.  Seems to be behaving pretty well.

 

Thanks for your detailed observations.

 

1) I completely forgot to filter out non-humans -- never thought about testing that. I will correct this ASAP (or make it configurable -- looking at the number of mods that have interest in similar topics there might be a market for these services).

 

2/3) The quest only starts if there are keyholders in the game and Skyrim is willing to locate them. It is possible (for example in my own game, with all Captured Dreams quests completed) that Elisif won't be detected as the game considers her already attached to another quest. I put a note in the hints section about this issue.

 

Dialogs check the NPC with the same test, so I'm convinced this is a general screwyness in the scripting engine (read: one of many). To avoid limits I do not keep track of keyholders, but flag them only and detect them in the dialog conditions. The quest uses standard mechanics to perform the same scan.

 

5) I have to look into the general mechanics here -- at this time the best option is to ask her to stop donating. But if that's currently broken...

6) ... I must check this -- the dialog suggests that it should be disabled. I'll try and fix it ASAP.

 

7) The leash is truly experimental -- I intend to use it as potential punishment on specific conditions. However, detecting areas and ranges is screwed up and it is therefore a true work-in-progress. As the range is truly short, it is more a gimmic. Try attaching the Leash to a follower instead.

 

 

There is one positive note though... getting equipped with the Yoke got you out of the Leash. (You did try have Elisif release the Leash, didn't you?)

[Kalarr]

Besides the obvious taking advantage of the PC locked up, I think this mod has the potential to start diving into the more "positive" nature of some of the chastity items. A helpful or empathetic key holder who might also sell chastity items I think could be a new direction the DD items can start going into. By applying the items as a way of preventing unwanted sex.

 

I am not planning such a feature at this time, because Master at Captured Dreams already sells a 'secure' chastity kit which is designed to provide exactly this service.

 

 

But... I DO have to look into getting that amulet put away as well

[AimoHauki]

I've been thinking about those spouse related suggestions to make but much of it would require so much work it would never be completed. But there are bits and pieces that could be doable.

 

1) Your spouse is drugging you with some special drug and you need to return back home reasonably often (or unreasonably, via MCM) or you start suffering penalties from withdrawal. In theory Skooma Whore drugs are kinda related but you can get those everywhere and the scope of their withdrawal effects just isn't quite there.

 

2) Before you leave home you can (or have to) tell your spouse how long you will be gone. If you are overdue she will send some thugs to get you and drag you back home (one way to get away from bad slavery situation too).

 

3) Turn the whole spouse thing into some weird ancient and secretive Dragonborn Cult thingie. Maybe a cult sworn to keep the Dragonborn in check. To keep them from 'misusing' their powers and to keep them humble to make sure they *serve* the people

 

[mrtauntaun]

 

3) Turn the whole spouse thing into some weird ancient and secretive Dragonborn Cult thingie. Maybe a cult sworn to keep the Dragonborn in check. To keep them from 'misusing' their powers and to keep them humble to make sure they *serve* the people

 

This sounds like a tremendous amount of fun.

[saphiral]

 

I was playing with this mod tonight.  Observations

1) The speech dialogue directed to Mistress which initiates this appears on all people and dogs.  Males, Females and dogs do give different responses.  

2) I got the book and read it to find recommended keyholders. No quest initiated.

3) I wandered over to Elsief and she accepted keys. I had her give keys to other ladies. Then the book initiated the quest to find those keys.

4) I asked Elsief if I can give her all my keys - they started getting Donated to her.

5) The keys Elsief gave out were also donated and not retrievable.

6) I asked Elsief if I could stop sending her keys.  She told me that I can do what I want.  All keys keep getting donated.

7) I asked Elsief to leash me.  She agreed.  Now I'm walking around and being told that the Leash isn't the area.  No penalty - course your note says this is a TODO.

 

Only issue was with the request to stop donating.  Apparently once keys start getting sent, they always get sent.  

 

Of course, as soon as all keys get sent, Cursed Devices threw me into a Heavy Yoke - no way to get a key in my inventory so no way to get released.  And apparently someone changed something so the cart drivers won't transport me with a Heavy Yoke.  Brutal.  

 

 

Anyway - nice mod.  Seems to be behaving pretty well.

 

Thanks for your detailed observations.

 

1) I completely forgot to filter out non-humans -- never thought about testing that. I will correct this ASAP (or make it configurable -- looking at the number of mods that have interest in similar topics there might be a market for these services).

 

2/3) The quest only starts if there are keyholders in the game and Skyrim is willing to locate them. It is possible (for example in my own game, with all Captured Dreams quests completed) that Elisif won't be detected as the game considers her already attached to another quest. I put a note in the hints section about this issue.

 

Dialogs check the NPC with the same test, so I'm convinced this is a general screwyness in the scripting engine (read: one of many). To avoid limits I do not keep track of keyholders, but flag them only and detect them in the dialog conditions. The quest uses standard mechanics to perform the same scan.

 

5) I have to look into the general mechanics here -- at this time the best option is to ask her to stop donating. But if that's currently broken...

6) ... I must check this -- the dialog suggests that it should be disabled. I'll try and fix it ASAP.

 

7) The leash is truly experimental -- I intend to use it as potential punishment on specific conditions. However, detecting areas and ranges is screwed up and it is therefore a true work-in-progress. As the range is truly short, it is more a gimmic. Try attaching the Leash to a follower instead.

 

 

There is one positive note though... getting equipped with the Yoke got you out of the Leash. (You did try have Elisif release the Leash, didn't you?)

 

 

Actually I got yoked and at that point knew that I was completely screwed and going to have to reload - so ... While Yoked I had Elisif leash me.  Then I ran around and tried to make things even worse for the totally stuck damsel before posting and heading to bed.

 

Thanks for the answers.

[Kalarr]

Actually I got yoked and at that point knew that I was completely screwed and going to have to reload - so ... While Yoked I had Elisif leash me.  Then I ran around and tried to make things even worse for the totally stuck damsel before posting and heading to bed.

 

Ah!

 

The heavy yoke is tagged as a Devious Armbinder. The Magical Leash does not activate if you are wearing an armbinder.

[Nuvenor]

How about: If you do not have all the devices on you, meaning collar, arm thingies, leg thingies, belt and bra the keyholder forces them on the chracter?

 

 

Noob question: What is "The Magical Leash" ?

[Storms of Superior]

Maybe, for folks who use DD FtM, there can be a chance that a shady individual will sell the player's keys to other NPCs that are bound up in some DD.

[Kalarr]

 

Noob question: What is "The Magical Leash" ?

 

The Leash is a work in progress. It should zap the player if she roams too far away from the holder. There is a testing copy in the barrel in the Emberhard mine and I was too lazy to remove it (and references to it) before release.

 

But I am still testing it, as distance calculations are weird in Skyrim and I do not know if the zapping works and won't make the character unplayable.

 

As with everything, screwing around with it and providing feedback is appreciated.

[Ammo12ga]

While I had some difficulty getting keys to actually work consistently on my devices (I think that is outside of your mod) and that I can remove a lot of devices easier without the keyholder, I love the mod a lot.  More than I thought I would.  Having the keyholder put the keys in chest and mail them is fantastic.  I really love the magic leash.  It might need a bit of a massage, once I got a certain distance away it didn't do any punishment.  It did at times add some other devices which is so neat.  Thanks for making this mod.

[Kalarr]

Thanks.

 

Unfortunately I cannot take credit for all your observations.

 

At this time the mod just holds keys for a specific period. It does not add or remove restraints (yet!).

[dwellerindarkplaces]

An intriguing idea so far, thank you.

 

I like the idea of a keyholder deciding not to give the keys back, unless you do a few little tasks for her first, or pay her money, or agree to have some other devices fitted instead....

[Kalarr]

I'm considering adding requirements/small quests, not as punishment, but as bribes to retrieve keys early.

After all, keyholders are supposed to be reliable giving the keys back at the appointed time.

 

What happens if you harass them (ask too often to be released), cheat them (don't give them all keys you have) or trick them (give keys to a follower to hide) -- is another issue. You did ask for it then.

 

Of course, one can always ask a keyholder to hold keys for a very long time and suffer the consequences for begging for keys early. I don't plan to have keyholders add Devious Devices to the player, but be ready to be asked to acquire some and put them on voluntarily yourself

The first stage of this is available -- the quest to hide keys is currently the only way to retieve keys early. But you have to work darn hard to retrieve 4 random keys! I'm also planning a 'wining and dining'-like quest for easier methods.

[Lantera]

This mod looks like a great idea . I often find myself thinking "Meh no big deal, I'll just go home to take that off" if I misjudged my arousal level and get locked in a device by DCL. I can't wait to see what kinds of interactions with the keyholders you'll implement, there seem to be a lot of ideas flying around.

 

While I had some difficulty getting keys to actually work consistently on my devices (I think that is outside of your mod) and that I can remove a lot of devices easier without the keyholder, I love the mod a lot.  More than I thought I would.  Having the keyholder put the keys in chest and mail them is fantastic.  I really love the magic leash.  It might need a bit of a massage, once I got a certain distance away it didn't do any punishment.  It did at times add some other devices which is so neat.  Thanks for making this mod.

 

Do you by chance run Devious Devices: For the Masses II as well? DD:FtM has a function where part of the keys it drops (configurable) are fake and don't do anything. I've been burned more than once equipping an item thinking I could take it off again, while the only key I had was a fake. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to *tell* you the key is fake, the key just sits there in your inventory and when you take off a device, the "Use Key" option is simply not there. It'd be cool if there was a way to have a fake key like that jam the lock instead and break off, but that's a discussion for a different topic .

[Kalarr]

I do indeed run the Devious Devices: For the Masses II (forgot the 'II' in the list of recommendations). But I have fake keys disabled in my game, so I completely forgot about them (never mind, forgetting seems to happen quite often these days).

 

I will look into those keys for a next update as well. No reason to ignore them. And recognizing will be a lot harder if you only have the single key, and not two entries 'Restraints Key (15)' and 'Restraints Key (8)' in your inventory.

 

Breaking/jamming keys might be tricky on an unlock action, as that event is part of the Devious Devices themselves, and not from DD:FtMII. Manipulating Devious Devices based on external triggers, like I do within the dialog tree with Armbinders, is an option, though.

[monsta88]

The first stage of this is available -- the quest to hide keys is currently the only way to retieve keys early. But you have to work darn hard to retrieve 4 random keys! I'm also planning a 'wining and dining'-like quest for easier methods.

 

I tried this feature, visited all 4 chests, but got 0 keys after. Is this a bug maybe?

 

I gave about 6-7 types of keys to the NPC (who was my follower too). I don't know how much keys should she hide in the chests, I'd have guessed at least 1-1 in all chests. I also had the auto key mail feature off, so I could keep the received keys.

 

Another thing, which I think is a bug, or unfinished feature: it is good that the PC can't take the keys from the follower by the regular trade equipment window. However, the keyholder follower should let everything else trade freely. Now every item I gave her is stucked on her.

 

Anyway, good mod idea, keep up the good work!

 

Peace,

M

[monsta88]

Oh and one more thing.

 

I also gave Heavy Yoke keys to the follower, then equipped one to see if she realizes that she can help. She didn't. I think it would be nice if the NPC would recognize, that she can help, since she has your keys for that.

 

M

[Kalarr]

The key quest is indeed broken. The keys are never transferred from the keyholder to the chest.

This should be fixed now (the fix will repair any unrecovered keys).

 

The same goes for the inventory transfers of followers/spouse. I upload a fix for it (0.2.1).

 

 

Regarding the Yoke, the behaviour is as implemented by the authors. You personally need a key.

 

From the Devious Keyholder view you'll get the service you asked for... wait until you can legitimately retrieve a Yoke key to get out. No quick/easy cheats (yet).

[monsta88]

Cool, it was a bug then.

 

As for the Heavy Yoke, I don't know. It is true, that the keyholder should hold the key, but the Yoke is kind of a special restraint. It requires the PC to give the key to the NPC in order to open the Yoke.

 

I think the most important difference between the Yoke (or any restraints) and Chastity devices, that Chastity stuff gets equipped before giving away the key. Restraints are equipped after, since I don't think a lot of players play in tons of restraints. Well, I might be mistaken of course, I'm trying to play Skyrim quests "normally" and DD, CL and the other LL mods are just an additional diffculty layer.

 

Well, it is not bad as it is, since there are a couple of ways to get back the keys before time, Pickpocketing being the easiest. Or just not giving away the Yoke keys.

 

A feature request: Please make it possible to get back all keys in one dialog. If the keyholder has 10+ keys of the same type, it takes ages to talk and select the dialog every time.

 

Thanks,

M

[Kalarr]

My characters are the opposite... Always in full restraints -- I have been screwing around for some time with perks that provide boosts based on the number of restaints worn while still having a playable character.

 

 

A feature request: Please make it possible to get back all keys in one dialog. If the keyholder has 10+ keys of the same type, it takes ages to talk and select the dialog every time.

Unfortunately I cannot get the 'Gift' dialog to work when retrieving keys. Skyrim (or possibly SkyUI) does not allow me to use the donation dialog to retrieve keys (they simply do not show).

 

I am currently working on an MCM menu, so I'll add a switch somewhere to manage the number of keys retrieved. I am also lookign into a possibility for key management so (the Yoke) keys can be disabled

[Yuni]

I can't find "A Matter of Time", what is it? Is it a devious mod? =O

 

Also wonderful mod, by the way! Keep up the good work.

[PubliusNV]

A Matter of Time is a mod that puts a clock/calendar widget on the screen.  Search Nexus for it.  I find it handy.

[Fredfish]

It's here

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/44091/?

[Kalarr]

Ups. Lost the to all requirements / recommendations somewhere down the line.

 

 

 

I am currently considering making Devious Devices 2.9.0 a hard requirement for this mod -- dialog is a pain without support for all the new goodies and subtle changes they introduced.

 

 

Has anyone not upgraded yet?

 

 

 

Also, suggestions for bribes to get keys early, or conditions to get keys back are welcome. I finally got around to understanding MCM and do have some screen real estate to fill up.

 

 

See attached prints

 

 

/Kalarr

[monsta88]

A question: Let's say I give my keys to someone for a week and set the mod to autosend any new keys to the KH.

 

4 days after that I get some special restraint, like Shock Boots. If I find a Shock Boots Key and it is sent to the KH, when can I get it? In 3 days?

 

I'm guessing there is only 1 timer, which counts from the initial selected time, I just want to be sure.

 

Peace,

M