Sexout Intimacy

[t3589]

I would like to provide some input of mine, without hopefully interrupting the ongoing discussion.

 

About modders *needing* to use this - personally, when I had the chance to play your "alpha", I was mostly happy with the "feedback" that I got from your mod. Most could consider it limited, because

 

[Niner stares at your legs (or butt, can't remember right now)]

 

is obviously less literate and developed than say

 

While scanning your surroundings, you glance over your shoulder and notice that Niner studies your legs with delicious intent. Would this betray a new-found affection for you ? You hide a bemused smile as you wipe your forehead with your hand, the sun being particularly hot today. His faces flushes an embarassing beet-red as he probably becomes aware that you caught him on the fact. You both quickly focus your attention back to the hostile desert as it might have been conspiring at your impending doom while you were distracted. Better be ready for anything!".

 

However, I can see a positive in this, insofar as that I, the player, can put words (or even actions) behind whatever plays on my screen, thanks to my imagination. As much as I enjoy to read (or participate in) stories that I haven't initiated (I wouldn't love RPGs otherwise), in the case of adult content I am often frustrated because authors would pick a wording, or rather a style, that rarely suits my fantasies and conception of what "slutty", "slave", "sexy", "orgasm", "cute", "etc." or even "feminine" means. I don't think myself as particularly prude, it's just that I don't enjoy the whole in-game sex business to roll out so quickly, crudely and *differently* in front of my eyes like it often does. To give you an example, there are people who greatly enjoy Bioware's sex cutscenes, but I don't. I can't. I prefer a black screen to them any day. On the other hand, it might seem ludicrous to some other players that I would go out of my way to mod in extra layers that affect the virtual sexlife of my in-game avatar, like everything that comes with <Sexout> and its many plugins (lust management, fertility cycles, gender attraction, ambush-rapes, etc.).

 

I understand your goal, and I genuinely hope that your mod becomes as successful as you wish it to be, but in definitive, and as far as I am concerned, I think that your mod (version alpha, barring any glaring bugs) already manages to stand on its two feet on its own, and is viable and very enjoyable to any player like me. Please be proud of that.

 

See that's pretty good, you should do a Niner mod. lol  I see what you're saying and I agree a majority of the time.  The lack of detailed dialog rarely ruins the moment.

 

On the other hand, it also obscures the potential of this mod.  Imagine 300 detailed lines of variation dialog.  You'd play and play and always see something new.  This simply can't be achieved with dialog placeholders.  So that's really what I'm on about when I say it needs dialog authors.

 

But other than that you're right it doesn't necessarily need dialog.  I too enjoy the vagueness of it.

[BruceWayne]

My Gary example was maybe a bit over-the-top and obscured what I was trying to say. Of course mod authors should define all of that, if they make their mods with DRL in mind. That NPC however may be in a mod from 2012 by a Nexus modder who never intended it for use with this mod.

 

As for orientation, I wasn't aware that you can "convince" NPCs to play for the other team. I was talking about orientation, because it was what was preventing people to play my mod. I could ultimately live without it and have the NPCs be what they are assigned to be. 

 

I particularly enjoy the vagueness of the dialogue. Granted, it is often a little too vague and a little more feedback and verbosity could go a long way. However, if it starts to get too descriptive and verbose, we'd run into the problem of it being very repetitive.

 

It's kind of like In Sims-speak: you "understand" what a Sim is saying without understanding the language they speak. Introducing something like that would of course be a bit silly, but the idea behind it, is what makes the vagueness so well-suited for a mod like this. Not to say that a modder shouldn't be able to make really elaborate dialogue with it. As a "catch-all" solution it works very well, though.

[ljacquard]

 

See that's pretty good, you should do a Niner mod. lol  I see what you're saying and I agree a majority of the time.  The lack of detailed dialog rarely ruins the moment.

 

On the other hand, it also obscures the potential of this mod.  Imagine 300 detailed lines of variation dialog.  You'd play and play and always see something new.  This simply can't be achieved with dialog placeholders.  So that's really what I'm on about when I say it needs dialog authors.

 

But other than that you're right it doesn't necessarily need dialog.  I too enjoy the vagueness of it.

 

You have a point, and I agree. Some games (or mods) however fail to achieve what your mod does, even if they have extended dialog options. To me, it's all about the alchemy that goes on behind the scenes, and to get whatever limited output there is right :

 

There is an enemy in front of you. Talking to him, you can :

 

(typical dialog wheel game)

- insult him with a flourished language

- insult him with words that show your redneck roots

- insult him just because

- be not nice to him

 

or just

 

- Paragon option

- Renegade option

 

Uh huh.

 

There is an enemy in front of you. Talking to him, you can :

 

- 3.14159265 (or something equivalent that is only meaningful if you have a whole wiki underhand)

 

Double uh huh.

 

It's kind of like In Sims-speak: you "understand" what a Sim is saying without understanding the language they speak. Introducing something like that would of course be a bit silly, but the idea behind it, is what makes the vagueness so well-suited for a mod like this. Not to say that a modder shouldn't be able to make really elaborate dialogue with it. As a "catch-all" solution it works very well, though.

 

Good point about the Sims-speak being sometimes more "evocative", "meaningful" or just "fun" than a confusing/boring/repetitive dialog text. Most of the time it's not, of course, reading books has a unique charm to itself, especially if well written.

 

 

Last I have a question for t3589 : I understand you wish not to give the player an additional "sex me up" button, breaking the "poser mold". I support that. Now, say I want to introduce a custom NPC to the Mojave, a companion. What is your stance on them ? How will your beta version handle them ?

 

I believe I've already asked more or less the same question before, but for your alpha version of the mod.

 

 

 

EDIT : I may already have the answer to my question, if the NPC that you've been discussing with Bruce is NOT a vanilla NPC that has been "enhanced" by a mod author. In my case, I was curious to know how your mod would handle a completely custom NPC, like for example Niner or Delilah, who never appear in the vanilla FNV game, and to my knowledge do not have any orientation explicitely set by their authors. I could be wrong, of course.

[t3589]

 

Last I have a question for t3589 : I understand you wish not to give the player an additional "sex me up" button, breaking the "poser mold". I support that. Now, say I want to introduce a custom NPC to the Mojave, a companion. What is your stance on them ? How will your beta version handle them ?

 

I believe I've already asked more or less the same question before, but for your alpha version of the mod.

 

EDIT : I may already have the answer to my question, if the NPC that you've been discussing with Bruce is NOT a vanilla NPC that has been "enhanced" by a mod author. In my case, I was curious to know how your mod would handle a completely custom NPC, like for example Niner or Delilah, who never appear in the vanilla FNV game, and to my knowledge do not have any orientation explicitely set by their authors. I could be wrong, of course.

 

 

Well let me clarify a bit.  I have no desire to deprive anyone of a 'sex me up' button.  Modders that use this system can make it a porn poser all they like, I have no problem with that.  What I'm saying is that I don't want to 'built-in' cater to that, because people should not expect that from this mod.  Or if they do expect it, they should expect it from someone else.

 

Much of what I've done with the mod so far has been for custom NPC authors, not just like Bruce, but for Bruce specifically in a sense.  That is, I've identified Bruce almost 3 years ago in our discussions in the early threads as a prime candidate to use something like this mod for his NPC mods.

 

I know I haven't given custom companions a lot of attention in the alpha and pre-alpha.  But I really needed to work things out on a general level first, before I wrap my head around specifics.  And custom companions need individual attention I just couldn't give them without holding up the broader picture.

 

But yes, custom companions not in the vanilla game are exactly the kind of thing this mod has in mind.  In fact, it should take a huge amount of the work out of creating custom companions.  You have a rich tracking system, an approach system, an activity system, etc etc.  all of which can be used independently of the main system. ie. All you want is your NPC to approach someone.  Just use the approach trigger and insert your own dialog ref. Or you just want the NPC to dance with no tracking.  Set a few NX vars in a goodbye dialog or script or token and they dance, with or without the rest of the system.  This mod is full of scene tools like that.

 

This will become more apparent when I start posting the API stuff.

 

 

@Bruce: Yeppers.  You can cultivate sexual curiosity in incompatibles.  I think it's fairly difficult in the alpha, but in the beta it runs about the same difficulty level as convincing a compatible into marriage.  Only when you succeed, instead of being married, you'll be doing the deed.  Not to mention possible regrets afterward (yes those are in too). lol

[BruceWayne]

Awesome!

 

I'm going to play around with it a bit more, but when I'm done, I'm going to pick your brain on how to utilize the system. I still have an update for SOWillow to do and I may have a look at Benthan's Quo Vadis mod for a sexout patch (I haven't tried it and the existing sexout patch yet, but the author said it was kind of basic). Come to think of it, Quo Vadis may present an opportunity to use this system as well. Probably more of the approach stuff, then the relationship game, but still.

 

I also have a couple of "blank" NPCs from my SOA mod sitting around, doing nothing at the moment. Maybe I'll give them some dialogue for their backstory and release them in the wild, just using the standard DRL system. 

 

So much to do, so little time.

 

[t3589]

You have some time.  I just finished dancing, the dance radio, dating and the rest of the activities.  I still need to add sex before there's really enough to play test with.  Right now I'm trying to overcome the foreplay hurdle and I don't know enough to make it happen.  I can add anims, and play anims, but I'm trying to figure out positioning now and I hate it.

 

I'm going to be a pitbull about this so it may take me a while.  I want bases and base tracking so badly.  Man if we had an anim for each base.  That would be tits.  ie. First base anim, second base anim... lol

[KainsChylde]

I'm coming in to this a bit late, but what I've read so far has me excited to try it out. This seems perfect for Bruce's Affairs mod, and to a lesser (greater) extent to mods like Willow. Really, with her points system and relationship stages, Willow seems like a micro-version (just one NPC) of your macro concept here. And I for one will gleefully dive head-first into the madness.

 

Just to clarify, though: the beta still isn't available, what's currently up is the alpha? And will I still need a "just sex" mod, or is there a way to consummate relationships using solely what you have here?

[t3589]

I'm coming in to this a bit late, but what I've read so far has me excited to try it out. This seems perfect for Bruce's Affairs mod, and to a lesser (greater) extent to mods like Willow. Really, with her points system and relationship stages, Willow seems like a micro-version (just one NPC) of your macro concept here. And I for one will gleefully dive head-first into the madness.

 

Just to clarify, though: the beta still isn't available, what's currently up is the alpha? And will I still need a "just sex" mod, or is there a way to consummate relationships using solely what you have here?

 

No I'm working on it.  The alpha is up but it's sort of a mess.  No sex mod needed.

 

[nyaalich]

Hush, T.  The alpha is not a mess.

[BruceWayne]

Speaking of the alpha:

 

Is there any way to ramp up the approach rate during activities? I'm currently testing some stuff out in a (possible borked again) save and I have a hard time telling if everything works as it should, because no one approaches me anymore (scan debug says blocked). Not sure if this is due to random chance or because something broke. I've upped iRate with the console to 20, but that does only seem to raise affection and desire faster (and possibly break something else, as there seems to be a calculation of another variable in the main script depending on exact rates).

 

Also, I want to make an "abort" button for activities (for testing purposes). I've identified several tokens, variables and spells that have to be reset with the console, but I think I'm still missing some. Do you by any chance know them off-hand, t? 

 

Edit: I mean of course all of them that have to be reset to resume normal play, not the ones I'm missing.

[t3589]

Speaking of the alpha:

 

Is there any way to ramp up the approach rate during activities? I'm currently testing some stuff out in a (possible borked again) save and I have a hard time telling if everything works as it should, because no one approaches me anymore (scan debug says blocked). Not sure if this is due to random chance or because something broke. I've upped iRate with the console to 20, but that does only seem to raise affection and desire faster (and possibly break something else, as there seems to be a calculation of another variable in the main script depending on exact rates).

 

Also, I want to make an "abort" button for activities (for testing purposes). I've identified several tokens, variables and spells that have to be reset with the console, but I think I'm still missing some. Do you by any chance know them off-hand, t? 

 

Edit: I mean of course all of them that have to be reset to resume normal play, not the ones I'm missing.

 

Yeah that was one of the problems I had with the alpha.  It likes to trip over itself and get stuck.  Mainly due to my desire to see how far I could get using only legacy code (which imo just doesn't cut it for this sort of thing, all hail the UDF).

 

Unfortunately 'blocked' means they're afraid to talk to you because another NPC threatened to pound them if they did (part of the old competition system). lol

 

It's a spell 'SODRTLBlocked' I think.  Just leave the area and come back and it should dispel on it's own.

 

In the new competition system fights may break out over you (after they argue long enough and you don't intervene).

[t3589]

Hush, T.  The alpha is not a mess.

 

Good to see you Nyaa.

 

[nyaalich]

Same to you, T.  I've missed you guys.  I'm glad that I read the thread before I started through TTW things at you since you're working on a beta.  ; )

[t3589]

Same to you, T.  I've missed you guys.  I'm glad that I read the thread before I started through TTW things at you since you're working on a beta.  ; )

 

Working on sex tracking now.  After that there should be enough there to play test.  Shouldn't be ages.

 

Spent last night trying to get the kiss anim going for the 75th time.  Got closer than I ever have, yet still failed miserably.  What the hell good is a date if you can't make out at the drive in?  I probably want too much.

 

[nyaalich]

Because I'm burned out on work at the moment, I'll give you my recent DRL hijinx after I created a new character.

 

 

 

Set to selectively enable NPCs due to prior experience with Unnamed NPCs from other mods spamming me.

Goodsprings characters enabled.

Mostly just talk to Trudy and Sunny and a chick from a different mod.  Incompatible, just friends.  Cool.

Recruit Charon.

Avoid T's control freak warnings and set to softest heart and strong sex drive.

Commence wooing.

Eventually get to sexy times.

Me:  [Have Sex?]

Him:  [seek Commitment > Partners.]

Me:  Wow.  That was much faster than before.  Sure.

Me:  [Have Sex?]

Him:  [Nope.  Tease.]

Get to sexy times again.

Me:  [Have Sex?]

Him:  [seek Commitment > Marriage.]

Me:  ...

Me:  Sure.

Me:  [Have Sex?]

Him:  [Nope.  Tease.]

Me:  Are you fucking kidding me?

Attempt multiple sexy times with the same results.

Attempt to talk about issues with him.  Always negative.

Getting into negative numbers.

Fuck this.

Reset Charon.

He initiates conversation.

Him:  [Rumor: Submissive.]

Me:  You and I never really sorted that one out.

Him:  Neutral.

He initiates conversation.

Him:  [Rumor: Virgin.]

Me:  ...

Me:  Yep.  Your fault.

Him:  [Positive Reaction]

Me:  I fucking hate you.

He initiates conversation.

Him:  [Rumor: Lesbian.]

Me:  OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

 

 

 

 

Nice.  I saw in some other post how you were talking about having anims per bases.  That would be neat.

[t3589]

Because I'm burned out on work at the moment, I'll give you my recent DRL hijinx after I created a new character.

 

 

 

Set to selectively enable NPCs due to prior experience with Unnamed NPCs from other mods spamming me.

Goodsprings characters enabled.

Mostly just talk to Trudy and Sunny and a chick from a different mod.  Incompatible, just friends.  Cool.

Recruit Charon.

Avoid T's control freak warnings and set to softest heart and strong sex drive.

Commence wooing.

Eventually get to sexy times.

Me:  [Have Sex?]

Him:  [seek Commitment > Partners.]

Me:  Wow.  That was much faster than before.  Sure.

Me:  [Have Sex?]

Him:  [Nope.  Tease.]

Get to sexy times again.

Me:  [Have Sex?]

Him:  [seek Commitment > Marriage.]

Me:  ...

Me:  Sure.

Me:  [Have Sex?]

Him:  [Nope.  Tease.]

Me:  Are you fucking kidding me?

Attempt multiple sexy times with the same results.

Attempt to talk about issues with him.  Always negative.

Getting into negative numbers.

Fuck this.

Reset Charon.

He initiates conversation.

Him:  [Rumor: Submissive.]

Me:  You and I never really sorted that one out.

Him:  Neutral.

He initiates conversation.

Him:  [Rumor: Virgin.]

Me:  ...

Me:  Yep.  Your fault.

Him:  [Positive Reaction]

Me:  I fucking hate you.

He initiates conversation.

Him:  [Rumor: Lesbian.]

Me:  OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

 

 

 

 

Nice.  I saw in some other post how you were talking about having anims per bases.  That would be neat.

 

That's hilarious. lol  The new one won't be so aloof.

 

[KainsChylde]

Oh, will this system support relationships between NPCs, exclusive of the player? Can I finally play wingman to give Niner a shot at Sunny(or better yet, Vanessa)?

[nyaalich]

I'd hook Boone up with Ghost.  They'd have the angstiest, most serious sex ever.

[nyaalich]

That would be a cool feature.  You wouldn't have to track all of the NPCs.  You could make it an extra customization option through the SODRL console.

 

[Wingman for NPC?]:  Enabled/Disabled

 

I mean, I'm not saying that generic Prospector or NCR Trooper don't need lovin' too...but ask yourself, do they really?

[t3589]

Oh, will this system support relationships between NPCs, exclusive of the player? Can I finally play wingman to give Niner a shot at Sunny(or better yet, Vanessa)?

 

Yes and no.  Yes this will have NPC to NPC tracking/interactions.  However, I had planned to only activate this between relationships the player has unlocked.  So the wing man thing will be entirely possible.  But they won't track one another automatically.  They must first be a third party witness to the players relationship.  When this happens they will begin tracking one another.

 

- NPCa and NPCb both desire the player.  You take NPCa to a party where NPCb is present.  When one or the other figures out you're having a relationship with the other they will begin tracking one another in competition.  If they are compatible with one another, they may even hook up, based on the quality of relationship the PC is giving them.

 

- Similarly with incompatibles.  You take NPC (a friend) to the party.  Another incompatible witnesses this and begins tracking your friend NPC, because they are compatible with one another.

 

So it's not a blanket NPC to NPC system that's always running.  It is somewhat limited for the sake of stability.

[Isaha]

Love the detail you've done on this (although the learning curve is pretty steep... even with debug mode on it takes a while to figure things out with placeholder text and lack of feedback) and this type of mod is exactly what I wanted for Skyrim to make marriage more of an accomplishment beyond just handing someone a medallion... (pity there isn't one like this for it).

 

I do have one issue, though. There seems to be a weird situation with sex choices sometimes (and an inability to limit the animations). I generally play heterosexual male characters and for some reason I keep being on the "receiving" end of sex (ended up reloading a few times to get proper acts for my character, but the others still pop up too frequently). The main issue comes in through dialogue. When I'm choose Top or Bottom, if I choose Top I get "Positive Response" then I'm returned to the part of the dialogue tree before choosing Top or Bottom, I can only get the dialogue to advance to "Start Sex" if I choose "Bottom" (which apparently makes me the bitch). If I choose "Force" when they don't accept sex, it works fine (apart from harming the relationship) and the few times I'm managed to get proper animations were from selecting "Give In" rather than "Have Sex" and having it randomly happen.

 

I've tried adjusting my partner's Dom/Sub levels through foreplay but nothing seems to affect that they want to be on the giving end and whip out a dildo. It's rather unsettling that I can't restrict my preferences from submissive acts (I suppose I'll have to find another mod that tweaks what animations are allowed for now) or figure out if there's anything I can do to prevent this...

 

 

[BruceWayne]

(I suppose I'll have to find another mod that tweaks what animations are allowed for now) 

 

Try this one:

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/47855-sexoutng-anim-management-mcm-picker/

 

Though it won't change the roles of the actors.

[t3589]

Love the detail you've done on this (although the learning curve is pretty steep... even with debug mode on it takes a while to figure things out with placeholder text and lack of feedback) and this type of mod is exactly what I wanted for Skyrim to make marriage more of an accomplishment beyond just handing someone a medallion... (pity there isn't one like this for it).

 

I do have one issue, though. There seems to be a weird situation with sex choices sometimes (and an inability to limit the animations). I generally play heterosexual male characters and for some reason I keep being on the "receiving" end of sex (ended up reloading a few times to get proper acts for my character, but the others still pop up too frequently). The main issue comes in through dialogue. When I'm choose Top or Bottom, if I choose Top I get "Positive Response" then I'm returned to the part of the dialogue tree before choosing Top or Bottom, I can only get the dialogue to advance to "Start Sex" if I choose "Bottom" (which apparently makes me the bitch). If I choose "Force" when they don't accept sex, it works fine (apart from harming the relationship) and the few times I'm managed to get proper animations were from selecting "Give In" rather than "Have Sex" and having it randomly happen.

 

I've tried adjusting my partner's Dom/Sub levels through foreplay but nothing seems to affect that they want to be on the giving end and whip out a dildo. It's rather unsettling that I can't restrict my preferences from submissive acts (I suppose I'll have to find another mod that tweaks what animations are allowed for now) or figure out if there's anything I can do to prevent this...

 

I wouldn't try too hard.  No reason for you to beat yourself up trying to fix something that I am in the process of fixing right now.  The new one will be much more straightforward.  The old foreplay system is incomplete.

 

Some things I would like to do with it:

- Alter some preferences so the NPC doesn't hold on to them so aggressively.  ie. In the alpha, if they are Dom or a provider, they will not accept bottom for any reason whatsoever, as the exceptions to this rule were never put in.

- The new Gender Profile and Action Profile stats will be the main determination of top and bottom selectors.

- Remove the foreplay dialog mini game, and replace it with a foreplay anim mini game (short and sweet).

- Expand sexual preferences beyond general Anal/Oral/Genital into specific anims.

- Place less emphasis on manipulation of dom/sub through foreplay.

 

Also, since I've already gotten real time tracking in, this will help smooth things out tremendously.  ie.  All dialog conditions are now tracked and set DURING the conversation.  As opposed to the need to leave dialog and let them cycle before you see the results of your previous discussion.

 

[nyaalich]

Remove the foreplay dialog mini game, and replace it with a foreplay anim mini game (short and sweet).

 

Can we have spoilers?! 

[t3589]

Remove the foreplay dialog mini game, and replace it with a foreplay anim mini game (short and sweet).

 

Can we have spoilers?! 

 

Nothing to spoil really. lol  I'm just going to use whatever foreplay type anims are available, and then meter the 'bases'.  So, extremely generic in other words.  I may try and stick in some metering using Spunks satisfaction attribute to.

 

Not to sound ungrateful, but it really gets under my skin that there aren't any true, meaningful, foreplay anims save AJs kiss.  I'll leave it at that because I have nothing nice to say about the current situation.