Can't play Morrowind or Oblivion any more

[Content Consumer]

Warning: This is entirely subjective. Your Tastes May Vary.

Warning: No tags, because I'm not sure under what topic to put this, really...

 

If Fallout 3 = Oblivion with guns,

and FNV = FO3 but good,

and Skyrim = FNV without guns,

Can I reasonably say that Skyrim = Oblivion but good?

Well, to my tastes, yes, teetering on the edge... and that's a whole big discussion there.

 

Let's take it a step further.

 

Daggerfall = Arena + Open World

Morrowind = Daggerfall + Better

Oblivion = Morrowind - Better + Graphics

FO3 = Oblivion + Guns

FNV = FO3 + Better

Skyrim = FNV - Guns

Therefore, Skyrim = Arena + Open World + Better(2) + Graphics

That one makes a little more sense...

 

Let's refine.

 

Arena = Pong on an oscilliscope + Way better

Uh, let's not refine that much.

 

In fact, let's take a step back, and limit the question to mechanics.

 

FO3 = Oblivion + Guns - Spells (assuming Guns and Spells are different)

FNV = FO3

Skyrim = FO3 - Guns + Spells

Therefore, Skyrim = Oblivion

And that's true... at it's base, the two games are mechanically identical, with minor tweaks.

 

And I could go on with different topics re story/narrative, graphics, etc etc etc ad nauseam, but I don't wanna.

 

I've spent literally (literally != metaphorically) DAYS discussing the differences between Skyrim and Oblivion and Morrowind with friends and family.

 

The end result of all of these discussions is usually this:

Morrowind = Good story, poor mechanics, poor graphics

Oblivion = Average story, average mechanics, average graphics

Skyrim = Poor story, good mechanics, good graphics

 

So that's my feeling. I like Morrowind, despite its MANY flaws, more than Oblivion or Skyrim because I'm more into the narrative than the mechanics or graphics.

Yet, I can't actually stand to PLAY Morrowind any more, or even Oblivion, because I got spoiled with Skyrim.

 

Much the same way that I really like Starcraft, but I can't stand to play it anymore since I got Starcraft 2 because I can't tolerate the gameplay, after seeing how much better it could be.

 

Does anyone else suffer from this malady? Is it just me?

[blabba]

The reason why morrowind is so good?

 

Because back then we had only the pc, which allowed devs to focus on content even more rather than worrying about making the game possible on the variety of game consoles.

 

Fact: Any exclusive game is going to be better than games that were ported to every single platform.

[wulfgear09]

I feel the same way you do .I try and go back to play those games and just cant though i never had F03 till a few months ago so i played the crap out of it till for a bit.I keep hearing that a new Fall out is on the horizon....I beta tested Elder scrolls online and well truthfully hated it ..I was making a nightblade sneaking up on the bad guy and whooosh 10 people run by me and kill it and the whole dungeon ,yey what fun!

[Content Consumer]

I haven't played ESO, but judging from the current progression it will have

 

[

Morrowind = Good story, poor mechanics, poor graphics

Oblivion = Average story, average mechanics, average graphics

Skyrim = Poor story, good mechanics, good graphics

ESO = Shitty story, excellent mechanics, excellent graphics

]

 

Except that most MMO's sacrifice story and graphics for mechanics, so, without ever having read any reviews or looked at what anyone ever has ever said about ESO, I might have expected ZERO story, excellent mechanics, and average graphics.

Somewhere close in there?

[Mebrilia]

To me an rpg is an amazing rpg when it gives me the opportunity to roleplay my character.... Morrowind is old...with outdated mechanic.. But this weak point is also a strenght.... Play a mage was awesome.... With Waterbreathing levitating waterwalking.. Blind.. and a lot of stuff to do... In morrowind you chould create any kind of character you want and depending on what you choice you will have also a total different gameplay....((try to start with a rogue in morrowind.. it was super hard...but also fun..)... I still play morrowind because it offer me a level of immersion other games on the series don't.... try with the graphic overhaul is amazing

 

Oblivion had: Dumbed down mechanic...Crap leveled stuff in evrything... Lore breaking setting (because in all the past games cyrodil was a jungle no matter what) and a general fantasy bored one...

 

Skyrim: The masterpiece of the dumb down mechanic...Removal of stats attributes.. the ridicolus dumbed down magic....The shallowness of the overall areas.. with npc that had like 3 lines for each one.. if you are lucky...Good graphic but bad optimized...What skyrim did right is just the graphic.... Loot is a joke.. artifact same thing... There is no choice o consequence joining a faction....one character can do evrything.....

 

I liked skyrim as a game....in fact i had a lot of hour on it.. but i hardly consider it an RPG....

 

TESO?: not even considering that game... is a "transcription error" 

[Brigade]

I'm going to paste a reply I posted in another forum, explaining why morrowind is better than any elder scrolls game that came after it (as well as how action adventure games differ from role playing games)

 

 

 

 

 

Who said I wasn't playing on the hardest difficulty. That's exactly what I am talking about and its still quite boring combat. I preferred Witcher 2 combat, where you'd have to lay traps to weaken an enemy first or coat your sword in various types of oils to kill certain enemies. Whereas TES combat seems to be purely 'walk up to enemy, strafe left and right and hit with sword'. This can get quite monotonous in some areas.

it's people like you that are ruining this series. Combat in TES isn't about flashy visuals and overcomplicated mechanics. It's about stats.

Back in Morrowind, very few of the unique weapons in the game had their own models, and they still only had the same four animations as every other weapon of their type. What makes combat so interesting in this game is when you create a sword that lights your enemy on fire and makes them weak against it at the same time. It's when you spend three hours making a potion to increase your intelligence, so that you can enchant a staff to give you 15 seconds of levitation (a spell that was extraordinarily useful in this game). it's when you use a scroll to escape a lost battle by launching yourself hundreds of feet in the air, and saving yourself with a 2 point slowfall spell right before you hit the ground.

It's because of people, like you, who begged and pleaded for Bethesda to "modernize" the series by adding in "more combat options" and making it more accessible to consoletards that the current generation of games is so watered down, and now you're complaining about an issue you caused because you didn't have the imagination to play Daggerfall or Morrowind.

We don't need twelve different animations for a weapon, because then the developers will spend less time adding in new status effects and enchantments having spent too much time having to balancing and bug fix the weapons' physical aspects. We don't want every unique weapon to have it's own models, animations, or spell effects. We'd much rather have a large number of standard weapons with semi-unique enchantments, placed into the game using leveled lists, than a mediocre amount of purely unique weapons, half of which are useless.

Finally: We don't want to have to lay down fifty traps, sift our inventory for the proper item to apply to our weapon, apply a temporary character buff, and pray to our benevolent lord Kim Jong Un just to kill a handful of enemies. I'm a level 100 barbarian with an axe that hits with a relatively weak fire effect, while simultaneously giving it's target the elemental equivalent of AIDS. Why should I spend ten minutes preparing to kill one enemy, when I've spent hours perfecting my character and arsenal? These games aren't about doing a specific dance with each individual enemy, they're about developing your character. This isn't a hack-and-slash game with RPG elements, it's a full blown RPG. In a full blown RPG, combat is meant only as an obstacle to the story, and as a means to test the character you've spent the entire game building from the ground up.

In Morrowind you start out with the clothes on your back, the starting stats you've chosen, and a handful of coins. You have to earn and buy every piece of equipment you want to start with, avoid areas with too many enemies, and figure out for yourself that you can pay a guy twelve septims to transport you to your first objective, after you've already walked the entire way there. Every NPC you encounter treats you like the spec of dirt that you are, every bit of information they give you has to be charmed, coerced, or bought from them. By the time you've completed the main quest you've gone from a worthless piece of outlander trash, to killing a living god with an ancient dwemer artifact that still isn't anywhere near as powerful as the weapons and armor you pulled off the corpses of mercenaries and daedra, then enchanted yourself.

In the Witcher you start out with a predetermined title, the weapons and armor given to you from the start, and the exact knowledge of what your mission is with a basic idea of how to accomplish it. Abilities are glorified buffs with no depth, equipment is scarce with only a few useful items, and none of them do anything to change the flow of combat. No swords with special effects that compliment each other, no spells that allow you to hover over your enemies while you rain fire on them, no loot to speak of. The Witcher is not an RPG, it's a hack-and-slash third person story based game. You can't compare it to an Elder Scrolls game, especially not their combat systems, which aren't even supposed to be similar.

The Elder Scrolls are about statistics and special effects. The Witcher is about preparing for a battle right before it happens and then hitting things. Please stop complaining about the combat system in a series that you obviously care nothing about, you and your butt buddies are part of the reason Bethesda is taking this series away from it's excellent and rather unique roots, and trying to make it more like the mass produced rehashed garbage that's flooding the markets these days.

Thank you for your time, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WoodGolem]

@Brigade

 

This response actually filled me with such awe and joy that I found myself standing when I finished reading it. If I was to add anything to that I would only repeat what you've said already. At the same time I got myself a new and fresh perspective on Morrowind and RPGs as a whole. Thanks for sharing your thought.

[Rayblue]

 

 

Does anyone else suffer from this malady? Is it just me?

 

Dunno why you have to worry, overanalyze and take things too seriously when you're supposed to be enjoying your time adventuring and role-playing as a different character.

 

As if modding wasn't enough in making things difficult.

 

Me, in either Skyrim or New Vegas, everything boils down to three things: finish the quest, kill the enemy, and shape the destiny of the player character, with all means necessary.

[Content Consumer]

@Brigade: That was... awesome.

I have to agree with most of what you said. Not that I'm disagreeing with anything in particular, I've just never played Witcher and have no frame of reference.

 

 

I guess should make it clear, that when I'm talking about mechanics being better in one game than another, I'm primarily talking about how hard it is to level up a low-level character. And, really, I'm mostly talking about leveling combat and magic skills. (btw - this only really applies to this topic - most of the time when I talk about 'mechanics' I'm talking about the whole schmear.)

There is a LOT to be said for making the early game more difficult. Here you are, newly arrived by boat, a prisoner just released to go your merry way. The game should not be easy. I should not be able to whomp on an ancient vampire at this stage. Getting involved in a fist-fight with a small dog should do me a lot of damage, and getting into an arse-kicking contest with a well-armed bandit should kill me.

What I object to is mostly just the whole swing-miss-swing-miss-swing-miss-swing-miss-swing-miss-swing-hit for 2 damage-swing-miss thing that Morrowind had.

It was a game that more clearly showed it's pen-and-paper RPG roots, which is not a bad thing, but in the context of a computer game, when I can visually see my sword leap out to a mud crab and nothing happens, it gets irritating.

There's not much mechanical improvement from Oblivion to Skyrim, really, (still in the context of combat), just a few tweaks like dual-wielding spells and the like.

I don't mind the loss of stats that happened somewhere in the Oblivion -> Skyrim path, but it did take me quite a while to get used to. I hated the idea of simplifying what should be a more complex, and thus more customizable, experience. I've gotten used to it by now, but I wouldn't mind seeing a resurgence in a future (single-player, please) ES game.

 

I dunno, it's just like what I said about Starcraft 1 and 2 - I've gotten spoiled by being able to select more than 12 units at a time. If I remember correctly, the original Warcraft you could only select four at a time, so 12 was a huge improvement. Several hundred is quite nice.

And when I say I can't go back and play it, that doesn't mean it's actually impossible for me, just takes longer to get into the swing of it than it used to. Maybe it has something to do with getting older, meh.

It's weird, though... I like the gameplay in Xcom EU/EW better than the original X-Com, but I can still go back and play that one for hours, even though I don't like the mechanics as much.

 

I'm reminded of this comic:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2253

Maybe I was just playing X-Com at a time when I was susceptible to its charms, and I expect enough "more" in my games today that I don't tolerate less... "improved" mechanics as much as I used to.

 

 

[Content Consumer]

 

 

 

Does anyone else suffer from this malady? Is it just me?

 

Dunno why you have to worry, overanalyze and take things too seriously when you're supposed to be enjoying your time adventuring and role-playing as a different character.

 

As if modding wasn't enough in making things difficult.

 

Me, in either Skyrim or New Vegas, everything boils down to three things: finish the quest, kill the enemy, and shape the destiny of the player character, with all means necessary.

 

Well, I do tend to take my games pretty seriously. More seriously than most. More seriously than is realistically good for me or the game.

I like designing games. Never done it professionally, just for friends and the like. But I really get off on the analysis of the various components of games. My favorite bloggers are people like Shamus Young or Chris Franklin. The whole subject fascinates me.

[Kind9]

As someone on another forum said:

 

"Oblivion and Skyrim are games you play to beat, Morrowind is a game you play to experience."

[Brigade]

The swinging and missing part of morrowind makes a decent amount of sense. It's hard for most people to grasp as most people have never held a sword, let alone swung one at an opponent, but the accuracy rolls in morrowind simulate a very real real world concept. Your chance of hitting your opponent go up depending on your skill with the weapon, and they go down with your opponent's skill in dodging and blocking. It's actually more complicated in the real world as well, where you have to deal with both your opponent's skill with their weapon allowing them to parry your attacks, and having to avoid falling into a pattern your opponent can take advantage of. It still looks like your swinging a stick with nothing happening, but it makes it a bit more fun if you know what's happening behind the screen. You'd be surprised how knowing more about the mechanics can make them more bearable, or even preferable.

 

You also don't have to level your weapon skills much to reliably hit things. You only need to get to around 45-50, and you can set up your class to have a starting 30-35 in a weapon skill. Or you can just stack agility.

[Content Consumer]

I also spent almost all of my time running, so my stamina was always at zero when I'd get into a fight.

I'm picturing this scrawny dark elf guy, wearing rags and tattered pieces of cloth, fresh of a prison boat, wielding a rusty iron spear, stumbling around in a marsh, exhausted from running nonstop for eight hours straight, stabbing ineffectually at the ground, the sky, trees, etc. in the relative vicinity of a kwama worker that just sits there, bemused at his attempts, before yawning and wandering off while the dunmer proceeds to fall into the water and drown.

[Brigade]

That sounds like an accurate description of daggerfall to be honest. I guess morrowind is a bit more bearable for those of us who have memorized the locations of all the big important artifacts. One of the first things I'll do on most playthroughs, for example, is pick up the boots of blinding speed. If you were looking into playing morrowind seriously again, I would actually recommend just that. Make sure your character has a half decent restoration skill, go immediately to the balmora mages guild, create a 1 second Resist Magicka 100% spell, use the guild teleporter to go to Caldera, go find the boots. Instant 200+ speed, and the game is still pretty balanced.

[wulfgear09]

I spent hours playing Morrowind and in my opinion it is a masterpiece of story and player integration at the highest of scales. I would love if they remade Morrowinfd just as it was with new graphics for a better look, i would pay and pay dearly for this  

 So much of what has been said here is just so much an echo of my thoughts I love skyrim even if my thief became the Arch Mage in under 2 hours and the only time i used a spell was to light a fire before frost fall froze the family jewels.Our community of modders has made skyrim a more enjoyable place to play and experience ,but,,,,,,Why am I always starting a new character ? I think it is because i miss the feeling of an old friend. when i fire up a character in Morrowind (which i did on my old comp after reading this post) all my characters were old and trusted friends ready to march off into a sand storm on another foray into epic glory.

[Content Consumer]

I spent hours playing Morrowind and in my opinion it is a masterpiece of story and player integration at the highest of scales. I would love if they remade Morrowinfd just as it was with new graphics for a better look, i would pay and pay dearly for this

 So much of what has been said here is just so much an echo of my thoughts I love skyrim even if my thief became the Arch Mage in under 2 hours and the only time i used a spell was to light a fire before frost fall froze the family jewels.Our community of modders has made skyrim a more enjoyable place to play and experience ,but,,,,,,Why am I always starting a new character ? I think it is because i miss the feeling of an old friend. when i fire up a character in Morrowind (which i did on my old comp after reading this post) all my characters were old and trusted friends ready to march off into a sand storm on another foray into epic glory.

Skywind: http://tesrenewal.com/

[wulfgear09]

 

I spent hours playing Morrowind and in my opinion it is a masterpiece of story and player integration at the highest of scales. I would love if they remade Morrowinfd just as it was with new graphics for a better look, i would pay and pay dearly for this

 So much of what has been said here is just so much an echo of my thoughts I love skyrim even if my thief became the Arch Mage in under 2 hours and the only time i used a spell was to light a fire before frost fall froze the family jewels.Our community of modders has made skyrim a more enjoyable place to play and experience ,but,,,,,,Why am I always starting a new character ? I think it is because i miss the feeling of an old friend. when i fire up a character in Morrowind (which i did on my old comp after reading this post) all my characters were old and trusted friends ready to march off into a sand storm on another foray into epic glory.

Skywind: http://tesrenewal.com/

 

 Yeah, I have been keeping my eye on them,they have come a long ways but still have much to do.

[Brigade]

You can make some magic happen with MGE, and morrowind isn't quite the same without the morrowind strut

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdR1X0V7sI

[Rayblue]

Man, I'm not wearing the rose-colored glasses.

[Content Consumer]

You can make some magic happen with MGE, and morrowind isn't quite the same without the morrowind strut

 

 

I always liked the way argonians and khajiit waddled.

I get that it was a huge hassle for the dev team, apparently, but I like the idea of different skeletons for beast races.

 

Man, I'm not wearing the rose-colored glasses.

That's a shame. I may be stuck in the past and all, but my memories of Morrowind far outstrip my memories of Oblivion or Skyrim, even though I play Skyrim almost exclusively.

 

And I did just find a mod that changes the to-hit rate for weapon swings and the like, so I'll probably be getting back into it again.

One thing I hope Skywind doesn't get rid of is the fog. At the time Morrowind came out, it was necessary because even top-line computers couldn't render LOD well at long distances, but I have to say it definitely adds something to the atmosphere, an air of mystery if you will.

[...0...]

Arena and Daggerfall with hardtime back then was for me at least terible.

 

So my real first OPEN free exploring world was Morrowind at the time 2002 i just upgraded my PC had a geforce card 4600i i think it was can't remember was perfect for start playing Morrowind.

 

As i said it was my first real OPEN WORLD RPG and oh men was that AMAZING it was an adventure and exploring and JAWDROPPING(for me at least) GRAPHICS we speak 2002 ok.

 

This game even combat was little awkward at times in every aspect perfect ive played Morrowind for months 7/days a week and just could not stop.

 

I dreamed of game like Morrowind for long time and finally it was there.

 

So then in 2006 came Oblivion and OMG was i dissapointed so much ive played maybe still for 100+ hours but i could never get use to game i always compared it to morrowind and never realy liked Oblivion WORSED in series ive played.

 

Skyrim was maybe in beginning to much console port and and not that good but the open world and freedom and screamed exploring plus the improved dungeons over Oblivion i still liked Skyrim alot more then Oblivion but it could even today not match Morrowind only graphic wise and mods where i can create characters which is SKYRIM BEST of BEST for.

 

Now after 2000+ hours played and i have modded skyrim it looks if its a DX11 game with perfect mods to create characters its in some way as good as Morrowind but for pure RPG and gameplay Morrowind stay as my favorite.

TOP 3 Elder Scrolls games:

1.Elder Scrolls III:Morrowind

2.Elder Scrolls V:Skyrim

3.Daggerfall(all tho now i don't like graphics anymore and bugs annoyed me alot.

 

Oblivion don't get a place for me i hated it in many ways.

 

I doub btw i like Skywind it will always remember me of original i loved so much even with bad graphics.

 

P.S Even Morrowind had 4 voices i still miss them most and all sounds game produced.

 

 

[bradleyh]

I still consider Morrowind to be the best Unmodded Elder Scrolls Game to this day.

 

I quit playing Oblivion after the DLC had been released and reverted back to My Modded Morrowind, until I discovered that Mods were also available for Oblivion. 

I played a Modded Oblivion from 2009 to 2011, even if most of the playing in late 2011 was wondering why I agreed to expose Myself to a Futa-fest by Beta testing.

 

Steam says I have close to 6000 Hours playing Skyrim, and I am still enjoying playing with new Mods. I still wonder how good Skyrim could have been if it was designed as a PC only release, like Morrowind.

 

I also find New Vegas far superior to Fallout 3, because of Weapon Repair Kits. I do think not being able to hammer a Fiend against a wall with Railroad Spikes was a horrible oversight by Obsidian.

[Duoleb The Chosen]

OpenMW will be released before the new year's eve

[jfraser]

 

So much of what has been said here is just so much an echo of my thoughts I love skyrim even if my thief became the Arch Mage in under 2 hours and the only time i used a spell was to light a fire before frost fall froze the family jewels.

[shameless plug]You need College Days:Winterhold [\shameless plug]

[Content Consumer]

 

So much of what has been said here is just so much an echo of my thoughts I love skyrim even if my thief became the Arch Mage in under 2 hours and the only time i used a spell was to light a fire before frost fall froze the family jewels.

[shameless plug]You need College Days:Winterhold [\shameless plug]

 

I can heartily recommend College Days: Winterhold.

 

There are so many inconsistencies, omissions, errors, and miscellaneous problems with the base game... it's odd how much I love it.

Great thanks to all of our talented modders (here and, as much as it pains me to say it, at the Nexus) who strive tirelessly to make the game better, or at least not quite so drab.

 

If we're speaking of shameless plugs, I think I'll plug my own first-person listing of the problems I've encountered when playing. Not all of them, mind you, just... poking fun at a great game.

http://www.loverslab.com/blog/188-content-consumers-blog/

Which reminds me, I think I might as well put the next section up. In fact, since we're talking about the college of Winterhold, I might as well put the next five chapters up, since they all pretty much deal with that.