NNS10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Posted January 3, 2015 Well the ECE lighting is dark yellow, same like his "face light" mod. Either this is optimized for character creation in Helgen (without LaL), or for those japanese ENBs where everything is bright and shiny like a detergent commercial I greatly prefer the white RM lighting, as you can see much better how your character REALLY looks like. Same reason i use UNBLEAK ENB with naturally saturated colors, and i wish there was a "Face Light" mod with white lights as well. ECE has multiple lighting settings with different colors and brightness levels. I will disagree that RM lighting lets you see how the character "REALLY looks." I started out in a dark indoor cell and when I was doing the skin tone, my character looked like a Red Guard. That's why I moved outside. It still doesn't look quite right. The RM lighting seems to do weird stuff. The ECE showracemenu screenshot is actually a better representation of how my character looks in-game. 1. RM does not apply Morphs the same way that ECE does. (As stated by Expired multiple times) 2. RM has every single fucking morph ECE has and more. 3. Base Head Shape in ECE is different (No it's not the vanilla head) 4. My previous post & Earendil's helped explain the process needed to GET THE SAME EXACT FACE INTO RM3. If you want an easier way, maybe ask the ECE devs to have an export face option or learn to use CK tricks. 4. No, Your not going to get the SAME EXACT FACE IN RM as in ECE by just putting the slider values for the morphs the same. Look at points 1 and 2 for why. 5. There's 2 #4's on purpose. Edit: Wrong thread, my reference to my previous post wasn't made here so I'll post a link here instead: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/39343-racemenu-v3b/?p=1036369 I've seen various posts about people going the export route, but I'm forgoing that since it makes you stuck with a particular nif head. That would prevent usage of the CITRUS head. For #1, I thought the difference in how the morphs were applied was more of a technical difference (e.g. ECE has some additive function). For #2, I was of the same understanding. Wouldn't that mean one of the "Head Shape" morphs corresponds to ECE's?
gvman3670 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 It has proven quite difficult for me to remake an ECE preset in RM. But it's not a big deal I suppose. I'm not emotionally attached to my ECE presets and I can still make nice characters with RM.
NNS10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Posted January 3, 2015 It has proven quite difficult for me to remake an ECE preset in RM. But it's not a big deal I suppose. I'm not emotionally attached to my ECE presets and I can still make nice characters with RM. Have you tried redoing ALL the slider settings? I had to be pretty patient as it looked pretty weird until I got all the major face features right (mouth, nose, eyes). In addition to redoing all the ECE slider settings, you need to find a shape morph that produces a similar result. For the Head Shape, I think you need to use 1, 2, or 4 (the ones that don't give a really narrow nose). When setting the ECE Mouth and Nose options, use the "Mouth Type" and "Nose Type" at the bottom of the slider list. Then you have to fiddle with "Mouth Shape" and "Nose Shape" (at the top) to find a combination that looks similar to ECE's.
guk Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 4. My previous post & Earendil's helped explain the process needed to GET THE SAME EXACT FACE INTO RM3. If you want an easier way, maybe ask the ECE devs to have an export face option or learn to use CK tricks. EDIT: This topic is pretty much obsolete, check Cell's new CharGen Export mod
NNS10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Posted January 3, 2015 So you can't use CITRUS head on RaceMenu if you export an ECE .nif head? Good to know. That gives me more reason to stick with ECE for the moment. Well, you can't use CITRUS head on ECE anyway. I wanted to switch to RM3 since a lot of interest features require RM (e.g. Familiar Faces, XPMSE 2.33's new features). I'm still tempted to go back to ECE for the user interface though. But every time I load a game with ECE and I see that weird face loading process, I'm reminded of how ECE is a hack job under the hood. The RM3 bug with Loaded Preset sliders might be one reason I wait though.
guk Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 The RM3 bug with Loaded Preset sliders might be one reason I wait though. Which bug? Works perfect for me even when i import 20 heads in a row and load 20 presets after that, then repeat this 5 times.
NNS10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Posted January 3, 2015 Which bug? Works perfect for me even when i import 20 heads in a row and load 20 presets after that, then repeat this 5 times. To be more accurate, I should call it a slider prepopulation bug. Just loading a preset works fine. But certain sliders are visually set to the wrong option (incorrectly prepopulated). It doesn't become a problem until you move that slider. Example: A saved preset has Nose Type=7, Nose Type2 = 1. When I load the preset, the sliders are prepopulated to show Nose Type=10, Nose Type2 = 1. At this point, the character still visually looks correct. I assume this is because the bug is strict related to prepopulation of the sliders and the actual loading of the character uses the correct values. However, the moment you modify Nose Type to something else and then move it back to 10, you'll realize the displayed setting was incorrect. I've seen this consistently happen on Nose Type, Mouth Type, and Eye Type. I also get this on Mouth Depth (0.30 loaded as 0.31), but I'm not sure if that's the same type of bug.
guk Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Okay, this has been around since forever. You just need to find out which slider number was the original, and it only seems to concern a few sliders like nosetype and eyeshape. However even an imported head.nif will remain identical no matter how many times you move the sliders forth and back to the original setting. And there are no bugs if you don't touch the sliders after loading the preset, it only is a display issue. Also i greatly recommend vertex shaping the head with Sculpt mode for finetuning. The basic Skyrim sliders just suck anyway except for 2-3 choices per type.
NNS10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Posted January 3, 2015 Okay, this has been around since forever. You just need to find out which slider number was the original, and it only seems to concern a few sliders like nosetype and eyeshape. However even an imported head.nif will remain identical no matter how many times you move the sliders forth and back to the original setting. Really? The bug has been around since forever and never fixed? That's making me rather nervous about switching to RM. I consider this to be a pretty serious bug. What if I can't remember what the correct slider numbers are? It affects quite a few of them. The Mouth, Nose, and Eye type sliders just happen to be the most problematic ones, but I've seen this affect numerous other sliders to a lesser degree. However, regardless of how easy or hard it is to correct, I think data-related bugs should be classified as serious/critical.
guk Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 However, regardless of how easy or hard it is to correct, I think data-related bugs should be classified as serious/critical. Report it to expired6978
Expired6978 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Which bug? Works perfect for me even when i import 20 heads in a row and load 20 presets after that, then repeat this 5 times. To be more accurate, I should call it a slider prepopulation bug. Just loading a preset works fine. But certain sliders are visually set to the wrong option (incorrectly prepopulated). It doesn't become a problem until you move that slider. Example: A saved preset has Nose Type=7, Nose Type2 = 1. When I load the preset, the sliders are prepopulated to show Nose Type=10, Nose Type2 = 1. At this point, the character still visually looks correct. I assume this is because the bug is strict related to prepopulation of the sliders and the actual loading of the character uses the correct values. However, the moment you modify Nose Type to something else and then move it back to 10, you'll realize the displayed setting was incorrect. I've seen this consistently happen on Nose Type, Mouth Type, and Eye Type. I also get this on Mouth Depth (0.30 loaded as 0.31), but I'm not sure if that's the same type of bug. This is actually a vanilla bug. It's not getting fixed because it's not a problem unless you actually go to change the sliders, plus it would mean placing a hack in to correct this broken behavior (ECE doesn't fix this behavior, it just gets rid of the Type slider altogether and makes a new one entirely at UI level). Internally when you load a preset your values are fine because the internal values are loaded, not the UI representation. They screwed up the preset number mapping to the slider value Here's how it works, there are some 20+ morphs per 'type' these are called presets (Basically just defined morphs with either 0.0 or full 1.0). A race has a large bitfield that flags whether the race can use a particular morph. Now when you look at a slider it goes 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 in terms of slider values however, since the race has flags whether they can use particular presets, their internal representation may actually be 4, 10, 14, 20, 21 Now, they have the mapping working correctly when you actually apply a slider, but they fucked up going the other way, 4 doesn't match to 0, it's literally just 4. So your slider shows 4, not 0. Internally this is fine, it doesn't matter until you actually move the slider yourself. Now regarding this actual thread topic: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/39343-racemenu-v3b/page-18?do=findComment&comment=1036901
NNS10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Posted January 3, 2015 This is actually a vanilla bug. It's not getting fixed because it's not a problem unless you actually go to change the sliders, plus it would mean placing a hack in to correct this broken behavior (ECE doesn't fix this behavior, it just gets rid of the Type slider altogether and makes a new one entirely at UI level). Internally when you load a preset your values are fine because the internal values are loaded, not the UI representation. They screwed up the preset number mapping to the slider value Here's how it works, there are some 20+ morphs per 'type' these are called presets (Basically just defined morphs with either 0.0 or full 1.0). A race has a large bitfield that flags whether the race can use a particular morph. Now when you look at a slider it goes 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 in terms of slider values however, since the race has flags whether they can use particular presets, their internal representation may actually be 4, 10, 14, 20, 21 Now, they have the mapping working correctly when you actually apply a slider, but they fucked up going the other way, 4 doesn't match to 0, it's literally just 4. So your slider shows 4, not 0. Internally this is fine, it doesn't matter until you actually move the slider yourself. Now regarding this actual thread topic: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/39343-racemenu-v3b/page-18?do=findComment&comment=1036901 Thanks for the explanation. So Nose Type=7 for Imperial maps to morph #10, and when it loads the preset, it sets the slider to 10. Bethesda is so awesome. What about non-morph sliders like Mouth Depth?
guk Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 This is actually a vanilla bug. Already had the feeling that i had this bug before i even installed RaceMenu the first time, good to know.
Expired6978 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks for the explanation. So Nose Type=7 for Imperial maps to morph #10, and when it loads the preset, it sets the slider to 10. Bethesda is so awesome. What about non-morph sliders like Mouth Depth? Yeah, ECE doesn't fix the mapping either, they just made a new slider that forcefully puts every morph to the slider so the mapping is 1:1. As for the mouth depth, probably just a precision/rounding error. The morphs are saved as floating point, but the UI uses double floating point. The numeric representation isn't even in the vanilla UI so you wouldn't notice this anyway. What RM does is it truncates to a certain significant figure, otherwise some sliders you would see something like 0.9999999999999 and the number would visually overflow outside of the panel. It multiples by 100, truncates, then divides by 100, effectively removing digits after 2.
ousnius Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 CharGen Export in-game player character head export script Look what I have for you here. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/61336/ Read the description for what it does and requires! (porting ECE character to RM) Thanks to expired for the help (even though he could've easily done this himself within 5 minutes).
guk Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 CharGen Export in-game player character head export script Look what I have here for you. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/61336/ Man of the day! Big thanks Mr. Cell
Rayblue Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 where everything is bright and shiny like a detergent commercial BTW, did a bit of experimentation where I installed Custom Races, the race compatibility master and carefully copied UNP regular meshes, FSC, Dollface and ECE/YGNord .TRI files into the proper folders, then worked and massaged the girl's face until I get the right shape. Still some tinkering to do, but damn, it's exhilarating to do some real shaping!
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