SD Cages (LE)

[bicobus]

Is it possible for another mod to enable those NPC, bypassing your checks? If that's the case if a mod scan for NPC and do something to them, like sleep tight, could such mod enable the badasses?

 

Edit:

 

Futher lovers comfort has this feature:

allows certain factions to comfort each other - currently Thieves' Guild and Bandits - if they sleep, or use nearby slaves

I'll follow my hunch and start an alternate game with that mod disabled see if it changes anything.

 

Edit 2:

 

So, nothing did the trick. What's striking is that the active badass aren't managed by SDc at all. They behave like badasses, but they being enabled is chaotic: sometimes you have one, another time 5 and another time all of them. Their inventory, after death, isn't as bountiful as if I had enabled them. They also seem to appear even if I turn the amount of allowed badass down to 0. Some regular bandits seems to have been touched by sdc, the "lastref" show through the console show the sdc esp.

 

I'm really close to simply turn skyrim back to vanilla and install just SDc to see if I still run into this issue. Yeah, I think I'll do just that.

 

Edit 3:

 

Went with vanilla skyrim, skyui and sd cages. The badass still load even though disabled in the MCM. I don't know how to proceed from here beside waiting.

 

I attached the papyrus log from my vanilla trial, but I can't see anything relevant in it anyhow.

Papyrus.0.log

Edited August 5, 2016 by bicobus

[Morferous]

Hello, Inte.

 

At first, allow me to apologize. The problem I was having was just cracked open in Skyrim Steam forum. Your mod was not the culprit, but victim - so to speak.

 

My problem was caused by custom installation of Static Mesh Improvement Mod. I selected options from SMIM during installation, because I did not want all changes to my game. It is now obvious that one of the files there is broken and caused my problems. It never occurred to me, because I had used SMIM for a long time. I think one of the files in the installer archive has gone bad.

 

It looked like removing SDc solved the problem near hideouts. It did, but not because I though it would. Slowdowns and crashes disappeared, when I removed SDc. When I moved to merged version of SMIM, slowdowns and crashes disappeared with SDc in game.

 

I do not know which file caused the problem. Guys in Steam are currently testing it out. I am happy to say that what ever it was, it seems to be intact in merged version of SMIM and is no longer causing problems on it's own, or with SD Cages.

[Inte]

Yay!

 

[aim4it]

Do you have link to this thread as I just started using SMIM cus STEP recommends it.

[Violence6884]

Hello. With SD+'s new version out, would you kindly update this sweet little mod? I'd like to keep using it. Thank you.

[Inte]

In what way?

[bicobus]

Violence6884 has some issues apparently, without saying too much.

[Inte]

I see.

[Violence6884]

Should I assume from the exchange between the two of you that I'm the only one having those issues with SD cages? Without saying too much?

[Inte]

You still haven't explained what the problem is. Just saying that a mod doesn't work wastes everyone's time. I need specifics to be able to look into it.  

[bicobus]

And I'm not running sd cages anymore. The furniture are nice, but the added enemies are a deal breaker for me. They're so powerful that they could take over any city and make the guards look like pushovers.

 

Actually, it would be nicer to have slavers instead of god-like enemies. You know, groups roaming skyrim in search for new blood. And since a dragonborn is quite rare, it should fetch a high price, right? There I'd understand why those groups are so powerful and it wouldn't break the player's immersion so much. The roaming groups could come from different factions: thalmor, stormcloak/imperial, or even some renegades who needs money to buy back their bounty.

 

Or both slavers and god-like bandits, if it's your kink.

[Inte]

I understand.

SDc 2.00 does not have NPCs added.

[bicobus]

Thanks. For what it's worth, I find the spells added by apocalypse quite strong. If the player isn't careful, instantaneous death can occur. The difference being that the player can also have those spells and retaliate.

[DonQuiWho]

@ Inte

 

I use SDc 2.73 and having kept the bad guys and gals to manageable numbers - insofar as sometimes my NPC wins, sometimes they lose - but I still have never had SD+ use the facilities in the way that you describe in the intro

 

My recollection is that some time ago, you said that you used a former version of SD+ (one which feels now as almost from the dawn of time  ) as SDc was designed for that.  However, some of the comments here and elsewhere are a bit ambiguous as to whether or not SDc functionality does work with present SD+, ie 3.51 

 

Please, can you clarify that?  ie does it, or doesn't it? 

 

I'll still use SDc even if it doesn't support current SD+, as I like the scenery and the challenge you created, but it would be even better if it did  

 

TIA 

 

 

[bicobus]

SD+ uses whatever furniture are available in the area, be it added by another mod or vanilla. So if SD+ detects a cage, it should use that cage during the night.

[Violence6884]

You still haven't explained what the problem is. Just saying that a mod doesn't work wastes everyone's time. I need specifics to be able to look into it.  

Well then sorry for wasting your time, allow me to unwaste it by actually saying the same thing; I installed it all in the right way, just like I had done before SD+'s latest version(Including required mods of each mod), started my fresh game as I always test things on new games, and while I can see cages where they used to be before, I can't interact with them(Not the bed rolls nor the doors) and NPCs don't use them, nor do they ever force me into one.

 

For this new game, I've done exactly what I had done the first time I installed Cages, where it was working absolutely fine. The only difference as mentioned is actually that I was trying the latest SD+.

 

Hence, me coming here telling you that it simply doesn't work because it doesn't. Regrettably that is all the info I can offer as there is no crash, no log indication, nothing saying that "Hey, Cages has this and that issue". It just doesn't work despite its MCM showing as normal.

 

I got somewhat triggered, rightfully I would believe, so below follow my views on your reply which you can completely ignore;

 

You feel your time is wasted, but when I sit down and write a detailed report on an issue(For example, when describing some issues I had with SD+ over at its forum) only for the intended recipient to retort with "Blah"(Where Blah could be something I've already covered for example, making it obvious they never read what I wrote, or throw a generic answer covered by common logic or already mentioned in my text brick), guess how that may feel..? So you know what I try to do lately? Be on point and short and not take a single thing personally unless it's almost insulting. So all of you who have to read 10's of error reports on forums on your mods, don't get a head ache from my spam. I'd think that's commendable in fact. And if you really read my 1-2 sentence description of the issue, it really is that Cages is just not working with SD+'s current version - At least for me. With no indication of what could be the problem.

 

So, sorry if you feel I waste your time, it's not my intent, I'm just trying to in fact not force you through a 500 word essay. Which is ironic, being told I'm wasting someone's time if I don't compose a mega essay, when actually doing so would only get me ignored or produce a one word, half relevant, already covered reply in turn.

 

Last point in case, do you have a job? I hope you do, we all need one. I do. It gets stressful, because it's on an unstable schedule with shit hours. I respect you for modding, but please leave your personal feelings on how I present my problems and whether or not you think I waste your time, out. I kindly suggest instead, if you want as many people to enjoy your work(I would, in your place), listen to what they're saying and if you need more info just ask the other person straight up. In a nice way, or if you can't afford that, in a neutral tone. Just like I did in my initial report of this problem.

 

Alternatively you can tell me you simply don't care, so I know to remove your mod as it's not working for me. I'm OK with that in fact. Your mod, your time, your effort, you're entitled to not helping out. I understand. And if it doesn't work for just ONE person then really who cares(I still would, but that's just me). But I even asked if I'm the only one. If you told me I am, then I'd back off because as said, just 1 person.

 

But I'm not OK with grey line acrobatics during conversations, nor am I fine with being semi mocked. Who would have guessed.

[pihwht]

Nilheim Tower has been odd. I've tried it about four times in the past week. The bandits warp in before the existing guards are transformed, and the guards attack them yielding a large fight as we cross into the camp. In one game, the badass bandits just stood beside the cage and let the guards and player slaughter them, but most of the time they are more lively fighting back.

[bicobus]

 

You still haven't explained what the problem is. Just saying that a mod doesn't work wastes everyone's time. I need specifics to be able to look into it.

Well then sorry for wasting your time, allow me to unwaste it by actually saying the same thing; I installed it all in the right way, just like I had done before SD+'s latest version(Including required mods of each mod), started my fresh game as I always test things on new games, and while I can see cages where they used to be before, I can't interact with them(Not the bed rolls nor the doors) and NPCs don't use them, nor do they ever force me into one.

 

For this new game, I've done exactly what I had done the first time I installed Cages, where it was working absolutely fine. The only difference as mentioned is actually that I was trying the latest SD+.

 

Hence, me coming here telling you that it simply doesn't work because it doesn't. Regrettably that is all the info I can offer as there is no crash, no log indication, nothing saying that "Hey, Cages has this and that issue". It just doesn't work despite its MCM showing as normal.

Could you kindly provide a load order and the version of SD cages you are using? What you describe as a problem not only shouldn't happen but never happened in my games. Something is wrong with your setup. Have you tried rolling back SD+ to be sure it's a conflict between these two mods? Have you tried only with SD+ and SDc (and requirements)?

 

And again, saying "your mod doesn't work" will lead to nothing because nobody else than you can:

1. describe the problem
2. provide the appropriate informations about your setup (plugin list, loadorder, papyrus log)
3. if possible provide steps to reproduce the problem
4. investigate the problem, if it is something that isn't reproducible elsewhere

Keep in mind that we can't access your computer, we don't know anything you've been experiencing and without information we can't do anything. It's not that Inte don't care, it's that there is not enough data to investigate upon. Most of the time, is a game of elimination: "This issue could be caused by this, but isn't. What about that?"

 

Finding what is causing the weird behavior is as much your job as the job of the mod creator to fix what needs to be fixed. And in actuality, you're free to open the mod entrails and fix it yourself.

[Morferous]

I understand.

SDc 2.00 does not have NPCs added.

 

It was a nice idea, but I also prefer not have added NPCs around.

 

I think some players would prefer them though. Have you considered splitting that to another mod?

 

I do understand that you area already managing several mods and one extra mod is of course one extra burden.

[bicobus]

I took a peek at the papyrus scripts, not that I understand a lot of it, but I found some weird things.

 

Is the event "onCellLoad" (and lower Event OnBeginState()) what is enabling NPC? Because it's using global variables that I can't find anywhere else in your scripts, especially iSDCgNPCsEn and iSDCgNPCsCount. I assume those global variables are handled through the esp? Because in the iSDcUtilities.psc, you are using one global variable by npc type (bandit, forsworn, etc). Yet in the very script that handle those npcs, you use another variable... And I get lost. However, that behavior fits what I'm experiencing in game: all badasses gets enabled regardless of the config value.

Event OnCellLoad()
  If (!bIsOnInit && (iSDCgNPCsEn.GetValueInt() != 0) && iSDcUtil.bUseOnCellLoad && Self.IsDisabled() && (iSDCgNPCsCount.GetValueInt() < iSDCgNPCsMax.GetValueInt()))
  	RegisterForSingleUpdate(1.1)
  EndIf
EndEvent

[Inte]

 

You still haven't explained what the problem is. Just saying that a mod doesn't work wastes everyone's time. I need specifics to be able to look into it.

Well then sorry for wasting your time,

allow me to unwaste it by actually saying the same thing; I installed it all in the right way, just like I had done before SD+'s latest version(Including required mods of each mod), started my fresh game as I always test things on new games, and while I can see cages where they used to be before, I can't interact with them(Not the bed rolls nor the doors) and NPCs don't use them, nor do they ever force me into one.

 

For this new game, I've done exactly what I had done the first time I installed Cages, where it was working absolutely fine. The only difference as mentioned is actually that I was trying the latest SD+.

 

Hence, me coming here telling you that it simply doesn't work because it doesn't. Regrettably that is all the info I can offer as there is no crash, no log indication, nothing saying that "Hey, Cages has this and that issue". It just doesn't work despite its MCM showing as normal.

 

I got somewhat triggered, rightfully I would believe, so below follow my views on your reply which you can completely ignore;

 

You feel your time is wasted, but when I sit down and write a detailed report on an issue(For example, when describing some issues I had with SD+ over at its forum) only for the intended recipient to retort with "Blah"(Where Blah could be something I've already covered for example, making it obvious they never read what I wrote, or throw a generic answer covered by common logic or already mentioned in my text brick), guess how that may feel..? So you know what I try to do lately? Be on point and short and not take a single thing personally unless it's almost insulting. So all of you who have to read 10's of error reports on forums on your mods, don't get a head ache from my spam. I'd think that's commendable in fact. And if you really read my 1-2 sentence description of the issue, it really is that Cages is just not working with SD+'s current version - At least for me. With no indication of what could be the problem.

 

So, sorry if you feel I waste your time, it's not my intent, I'm just trying to in fact not force you through a 500 word essay. Which is ironic, being told I'm wasting someone's time if I don't compose a mega essay, when actually doing so would only get me ignored or produce a one word, half relevant, already covered reply in turn.

 

Last point in case, do you have a job? I hope you do, we all need one. I do. It gets stressful, because it's on an unstable schedule with shit hours. I respect you for modding, but please leave your personal feelings on how I present my problems and whether or not you think I waste your time, out. I kindly suggest instead, if you want as many people to enjoy your work(I would, in your place), listen to what they're saying and if you need more info just ask the other person straight up. In a nice way, or if you can't afford that, in a neutral tone. Just like I did in my initial report of this problem.

 

Alternatively you can tell me you simply don't care, so I know to remove your mod as it's not working for me. I'm OK with that in fact. Your mod, your time, your effort, you're entitled to not helping out. I understand. And if it doesn't work for just ONE person then really who cares(I still would, but that's just me). But I even asked if I'm the only one. If you told me I am, then I'd back off because as said, just 1 person.

 

But I'm not OK with grey line acrobatics during conversations, nor am I fine with being semi mocked. Who would have guessed.

 

 

Ok, but did you remember to unplug your computer for a few minutes, then plug it back in - its very important - also make sure it is running while you do that.

 

Kidding aside, its like @bicobus said, you have to meet me half way in solving the problem. 

Now that you have told me what the actual problem is, we can start moving towards that.  

 

The problems:

• You cannot activate the SDc cage doors,
• nor the bedrolls contained there within.
• Also it is possible SD+ is ignoring the cages.

Possible solutions:

• Assuming that you can activate vanilla cages and/or bedrolls, then no idea. I mean the SDc cages are just copies of the vanilla ones placed in different locations, if the vanilla ones work - then so should the SDc, especially on a new game. All I can suggest in this case is - a mod conflict - now here comes your homework - first move SDc to last in your load order, if no go then - you have to uninstall your mods one by one until SDc starts working. Possibly start a new game with just SDc requirements installed, i.e. SkyUI.
• See 1.
• Not sure what @skyrimll does with the cage scene in SD+ 3.xx - as I do not play that version.

Lastly, I do appreciate bug reports especially descriptive ones, how else am I supposed to improve my work. But honestly, all I got from your previous posts here was, 'this mod is not working' - that does not help.

[Inte]

 

I understand.

SDc 2.00 does not have NPCs added.

 

It was a nice idea, but I also prefer not have added NPCs around.

 

I think some players would prefer them though. Have you considered splitting that to another mod?

 

I do understand that you area already managing several mods and one extra mod is of course one extra burden.

 

 

What about disabling SDc NPCs through the MCM? That should accomplish the same thing, no?

 

I took a peek at the papyrus scripts, not that I understand a lot of it, but I found some weird things.

 

Is the event "onCellLoad" (and lower Event OnBeginState()) what is enabling NPC? Because it's using global variables that I can't find anywhere else in your scripts, especially iSDCgNPCsEn and iSDCgNPCsCount. I assume those global variables are handled through the esp? Because in the iSDcUtilities.psc, you are using one global variable by npc type (bandit, forsworn, etc). Yet in the very script that handle those npcs, you use another variable... And I get lost. However, that behavior fits what I'm experiencing in game: all badasses gets enabled regardless of the config value.

Event OnCellLoad()
  If (!bIsOnInit && (iSDCgNPCsEn.GetValueInt() != 0) && iSDcUtil.bUseOnCellLoad && Self.IsDisabled() && (iSDCgNPCsCount.GetValueInt() < iSDCgNPCsMax.GetValueInt()))
  	RegisterForSingleUpdate(1.1)
  EndIf
EndEvent

 

That is a universal script attached to each NPC. I made it universal because I did not want to make a unique script for each and every SDc NPC of which there are more than 100.

 

The way it works is by pointing those script global variables to different and NPC specific CK global variable properties, that way one script can be used to control a buzzillion NPCs.

 

[panthercom]

 The biggest problem I had with cages was with (script?) lag; having to wait a long time for the bed

to be available for sleeping after entering the cage; the door taking forever to close and the character

being stuck until that happened, and camera issues because the cage is too close to a wall. I was

only running SD+ and it's requirements and the Prison Overhaul with patches. I also had problems

with companions not getting put in the cage, and when they did get put in the available space was

so small it made the camera issues even worse.

 

 I'm no longer running SD+, although I have kept the Cages mod, for the extra challenge.

[Inte]

Ah, now I see.

The issues are happening during the SD+ cage scene, and such they are SD+ issues not SDc.

For what is worth, I had patched those for SD+ 2, with my SD+ Patches. 

[Morferous]

 

 

I understand.

SDc 2.00 does not have NPCs added.

 

It was a nice idea, but I also prefer not have added NPCs around.

 

I think some players would prefer them though. Have you considered splitting that to another mod?

 

I do understand that you area already managing several mods and one extra mod is of course one extra burden.

 

 

What about disabling SDc NPCs through the MCM? That should accomplish the same thing, no?

I might have misunderstood your reply. I thought that you were removing them entirely in 2.00.