Playing Skyrim Off-line without any access to Steam

[labrat]

In order for Valve to even have this information ready for a "malicious" third party to exploit' date=' Steam would have to be able to read and understand ESS, ESP, and ESM files. [/quote']

 

Could you explain this please? I have very simple software that reads .ess, .esp and .esm files. So do you. So could anybody that could access such files held in the cloud.

 

Hell, the only times that Steam would even collect file/directory information is when it's uploading save data or verifying your local files (which you have to ask it to do).

 

Not to concerned about filenames/hierarchy myself. It's data content that matters. If you have to ask Steam to store your data and it isn't a requisite of using their service, and I can still play Skyrim without doing so then fine. No problem. If...

 

Even if Steam does somehow have revealing information about your fantasies and game-related sexual activities, why would someone turn to Steam for that data?

 

You go fishing in a pool. Any reasonably astute PC user can protect the information on their own machine. They cannot protect information held on someone else's.

 

You're suggesting that people are out on a witch hunt for people with sex-related information etc. etc.

 

Yes. There are. Forget paedos. Most of the stuff on LL has been very illegal in the UK for a couple of years when cartoon depictions of "extreme" sex acts including but not confined to sexual violence, rape, S&M and bestiality were classified in the same category as photographs. You will receive a jail term, you will be put on a sex offenders register, for a long time. You will lose your job, wife, kids and home. The reason that only those caught in other sweeps have been charged is because it is not easy and the police forces have bigger fish to fry.

 

There are, however, private or semi-autonomous organisations of moral crusaders who actively hunt for "perverts" and who are only too happy to pass the information on. There are now political motivations to do with ending anonymity on the internet that mean pornography, IPR infringement, "terrorism", drug culture and it goes without saying other taboos, will be actively used as weapons to win the hearts and what passes for the minds of the couch potato classes.

 

If you are American then you probably think that you are safe behind the first amendment. Just because something is not illegal does not protect you from moral censure and social stigma.

 

If you're so damn concerned that Steam or a related service/product is collecting personal information, you might as well be concerned that Microsoft Word is doing the same. etc. etc.

 

I am and have taken measures to prevent any unneccesary information leakage, however innocent. Why then deliberately make myself vulnerable by allowing a dodgy third party access to my privates?

 

I see absolutely no problem in working to keep your privacy in a time where your personal information is easily accessible to the wrong people, but you and several other users in this thread are going overboard.

 

a) Not, I hope, "easily" and I don't think it's going too far to point out the problems inherent in "sharing" information about a socially unnacceptable activity in a cloud.

 

To reiterate though, if Steam can be castrated, as you insist it can, then I am less concerned. There are other issues but they are about repugnance for its business model and have no place here.

 

[Chase Roxand]

Steam doesn't even have a Steam Cloud option for Skyrim. So that worry should be taken care of. They won't have your save data at all.

 

In order for Valve to even have this information ready for a "malicious" third party to exploit' date=' Steam would have to be able to read and understand ESS, ESP, and ESM files. [/quote']

 

Could you explain this please? I have very simple software that reads .ess, .esp and .esm files. So do you. So could anybody that could access such files held in the cloud.

Gladly. Making a simple save/mod reader for Bethesda games is as easy as looking up unofficial documentation, but it's hardly something that Steam would use. They wouldn't use unofficial documentation, since it could possibly be wrong, especially after an update to the game. The only reason that they'd have official documentation is if Steam was tracking your in-game stats and your mod info, which they don't.

 

When I said that, I meant it as Steam having your game info laid out in an easily understandable format in a database. However, if Bethesda had included Steam Cloud support, Steam would have your entire save if you had Steam Cloud enabled. In that case, your info could be accessed, but that would require...

1. ...Steam to have your save data.

2. ...a third party company to subpoena Steam for your save data, or hack Steam.

3. ...the third party company to have a working ESS reader.

4. ...the third party company to have a list of ESP names to flag as "illegal" or "inappropriate".

 

You could easily stop the process at #1, but I don't see 2, 3, or 4 as likely scenarios. Ever.

 

Hell' date=' the only times that Steam would even collect file/directory information is when it's uploading save data or verifying your local files (which you have to ask it to do).[/quote']

 

Not to concerned about filenames/hierarchy myself. It's data content that matters. If you have to ask Steam to store your data and it isn't a requisite of using their service, and I can still play Skyrim without doing so then fine. No problem. If...

Steam Cloud is completely optional and doesn't even apply to Skyrim. That's the main reason why I found this entire topic so silly. And if you're not concerned about file names, you shouldn't be concerned about Steam having your save data in the first place. The only relevant info in it is the list of mods loaded.

 

Even if Steam does somehow have revealing information about your fantasies and game-related sexual activities' date=' why would someone turn to Steam for that data?[/quote']

 

You go fishing in a pool. Any reasonably astute PC user can protect the information on their own machine. They cannot protect information held on someone else's.

I understand that, but Steam is such a random service to go after. There are so many better ways to go about snooping for private data, especially on a regular basis. If a third party gets the legal grounds to access personal information from a service you use, your ISP is much more dangerous than Steam. More incriminating information could be found there. I'm sure that you know that, but the contrast in danger between an ISP and Steam is gigantic. Even if it has the obscure possibility of being insecure, that hardly makes it a threat. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be safe, just that it isn't worth being paranoid over.

 

You're suggesting that people are out on a witch hunt for people with sex-related information etc. etc.

 

Yes. There are. Forget paedos. Most of the stuff on LL has been very illegal in the UK for a couple of years when cartoon depictions of "extreme" sex acts including but not confined to sexual violence' date=' rape, S&M and bestiality were classified in the same category as photographs. You will receive a jail term, you will be put on a sex offenders register, for a long time. You will lose your job, wife, kids and home. The reason that only those caught in other sweeps have been charged is because it is not easy and the police forces have bigger fish to fry.

 

There are, however, private or semi-autonomous organisations of moral crusaders who actively hunt for "perverts" and who are only too happy to pass the information on. There are now political motivations to do with ending anonymity on the internet that mean pornography, IPR infringement, "terrorism", drug culture and it goes without saying other taboos, will be actively used as weapons to win the hearts and what passes for the minds of the couch potato classes.

 

If you are American then you probably think that you are safe behind the first amendment. Just because something is not illegal does not protect you from moral censure and social stigma.

[/quote']

I am an American and I don't believe that I'm safe. All of my personal info is only a subpoena or SOPA-esque bill away. The future looks bleak for Internet anonymity, but that doesn't make me paranoid. I stay safe and aware of what data is stored where, but not to the point of asking if Steam is safe.

 

If you're so damn concerned that Steam or a related service/product is collecting personal information' date=' you might as well be concerned that Microsoft Word is doing the same. etc. etc. [/quote']

 

I am and have taken measures to prevent any unneccesary information leakage, however innocent. Why then deliberately make myself vulnerable by allowing a dodgy third party access to my privates?

There's no way that we'll agree on this. I keep my private data private, so I have no issues with various programs phoning home. If a program asks for it, I say "no". I'm much more concerned with my ISP than any individual program.

 

I see absolutely no problem in working to keep your privacy in a time where your personal information is easily accessible to the wrong people' date=' but you and several other users in this thread are going overboard.

[/quote']

 

a) Not, I hope, "easily" and I don't think it's going too far to point out the problems inherent in "sharing" information about a socially unnacceptable activity in a cloud.

 

To reiterate though, if Steam can be castrated, as you insist it can, then I am less concerned. There are other issues but they are about repugnance for its business model and have no place here.

 

"Easily" is a subpoena or a warrant or a bill. I don't expect that an individual could easily hunt down my private data, but I'm sure that a government sponsored company could.

I agree that you shouldn't store dangerous data in a cloud. At the same time I don't expect that data in a cloud would make it to third parties. Selling personal info is one thing, but data/files is another.

[galgat]

This is such and un winnable conflict..

 

I will say this I hate steam, and nothing anyone can say will change this. It adds nothing to my game.

 

[and don't go on with that the dog ate my CD stuff and because I had steam i got it right back]

 

[ Or wow they offered me this great deal on a game ] (great deals are all over the net if you want to google for them, that's how they found them.)

 

As to if they monitor you are not I don't care.. I just don't want them in my house.. They were not invited, and I don't want them there.. Its just that simple.

 

They make nothing, they cause the price of software to go up. They force them self's into my home through trickery, and into my personal life, and I do Not like that.

 

I am sure the steam lovers will curse me, but it is just how I feel about steam.

 

 

 

[TheTraveler]

you do know you can play in offline mode right ??once you right click on steam and tell it to go offline you can turn off internet and always use offline when steam starts up and you never have to go online.

 

But you still need to have steam loaded to play.

 

I dont know if its cool to chat about it here' date=' so if not, google around a bit. You WILL find the answer. I'll try to help you by PM if you want too. Its pretty simple to set up, but I cant remember exactly what I did to "enable" the data files button.

 

Edit: yea lol, your right. Privacy is the only way, ESPECIALLY when it comes to pornographic stuff HAHA.

[/quote']

 

It is not cool to even speak of it. Besides LL does not allow speak of piracy either.

 

seriously? but i could SWEAR someone on the oblivion board suggested a torrent for me to get oblivion and all the dlc packs. huh.

 

[Metal_Izanagi]

"Applying a crack to a brought game is not piracy and imho morally completely acceptable. And thats what the TS is asking for. If he wanted the game for free he would probably ask at Pirate Bay. I mean its not some kind of secret that such sites exist."

 

Wrong. Applying a crack of any form to Skyrim, even if you legally bought it, is illegal, and definitely not something ll needs around. As it is there are people that would rather see communities like this shut down; we don't need a bunch of thieves bringing their crap into it too. It'd be nice if a representative of the site would make it clear what's cool and what's not cool here, and not just a bunch of us trying to keep it legal around here.

[Android155]

This message brought to you by the MPAA® and RIAA®.

 

Seriously though, when you've bought something, it yours to do with what you wish. I don't care what anyone says.

[HanPL]

We do not support Piracy or any kind of Warez.

Skyrim = Steam.

Bypassing that = using cracking exe or other tweaks which in Bethesda law = Piracy.

 

If you play game like Oblivion using cracked exe is fairly normal since you don't have to put DVD everytime.

 

But Skyrim DON'T need DVD only Steam and by bypassing that your breaking the Bethesda rules.

 

Topics like that are let's say ok.

But linking anything related to piracy software or encourage to use cracked exe will end up in warns from 10-20% or ban in extreme cases.

[Mana Yakushima]

We do not support Piracy or any kind of Warez.

Skyrim = Steam.

Bypassing that = using cracking exe or other tweaks which in Bethesda law = Piracy.

 

If you play game like Oblivion using cracked exe is fairly normal since you don't have to put DVD everytime.

 

But Skyrim DON'T need DVD only Steam and by bypassing that your breaking the Bethesda rules.

 

Topics like that are let's say ok.

But linking anything related to piracy software or encourage to use cracked exe will end up in warns from 10-20% or ban in extreme cases.

 

Ok but both the DVD and Steam are forms of protection. If its okay to bypass the DVD check why isn't it okay to bypass Steam? It's the same thing in principle and they're both equally annoying. My point is, if you bought the game you should be able to do with it what you want.

 

 

 

 

[HanPL]

Not my rules so go complain to Bethesda or steam about it

 

But like I said any form of encouraging to use pirate versions/cracked or linking pirate material will end up in warns or banning.

[galgat]

"Applying a crack to a brought game is not piracy and imho morally completely acceptable. And thats what the TS is asking for. If he wanted the game for free he would probably ask at Pirate Bay. I mean its not some kind of secret that such sites exist."

 

Wrong. Applying a crack of any form to Skyrim' date=' even if you legally bought it, is illegal, and definitely not something ll needs around. As it is there are people that would rather see communities like this shut down; we don't need a bunch of thieves bringing their crap into it too. It'd be nice if a representative of the site would make it clear what's cool and what's not cool here, and not just a bunch of us trying to keep it legal around here.

[/quote']

 

this Url

 

http://arstechnica.com/software/news/2010/07/court-breaking-drm-for-a-fair-use-is-legal.ars

 

http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/07/25/court.says.cracking.drm.ok.if.purpose.is.legal/

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/07/apple-loses-big-in-drm-ruling-jailbreaks-are-fair-use.ars

 

It explains the rules pretty well breaking DRM on your own purchases is not in the US, and illegal act. what you do with that software or music video after that is what makes the difference.

[Surenas]

As long as stuff runs as single player in private life nobody in game would ever ask you for the hopefully present ticket or a secret way to dodge paying the fare. Why beat the proven stupidity of the AI with unasked confession scripts and proudly presented Caribbean links outside of the game when just two clicks away even answers to yet unasked questions are to be googled, hmm?

[oblivionwithdongs]

I find steam way more inconvenient than putting a disk in my drive, i also think it's a fucking travesty that people just lie down and accept something like steam, it's really, really bad.

Steam is a way of enforcing censorship, germans and australians get location-locked versions of games with their countries stupid censorship laws, even if they buy the game in another country. Steam is a way of taking ownership from you, when you have games on your shelf, you can do what you want with them, with steam, it's entirely up to valve. I know it's not likely, but if valve went out of business, where would all your games go?

[Guest Donkey]

It doesn't matter if we aggree or not.. the more we argue about legality the more reason we give these people to invent newer rules to by pass us. we already seen what SOPA and Pipa can do and now ACTA.

 

They will always screw us in the end. Let's face it. Pirats have always thought to bypass everything and costing these companies money.. There is no excuse ever to result to this.

 

Money we legal gamers are now paying for.. So the more pirats think they are winning the more we legal gamers lose..

 

I don't want to pay the price what is being driven up by pirats. Whet they should do activily hunt these people on-line and leave legit gamers alone. But letting everyone pay at the same time seem easier for them that is what we currently see.

 

the first morrowind and oblivion did not even have copy protection. And still people where pirating it. It cost bethesda money. then fallout and new vegas and skyrim wen't a different route. if the pirats did not screw bethesda over, there was no reason for them to do this to there legit gamers.

[Surenas]

They can't hunt them down that easy cos they are insiders also, part of the machine. High piracy is in fact a challenge of the skilled, often between competitive concepts, viz game studios and above all - their proximity. Nuff said.

 

NB If that's indeed a good reason for the branded sheep flock to change willingly the open field of old with a modern enclosure or even a guarded sheepfold, well, that's up to the sheep, finally.

[Mana Yakushima]

This is totally going OT...

[Metal_Izanagi]

The original question was answered about as well as it could be, since Steam is indeed impossible to completely block for good, if you want to play your games, and considering there's already an official stance on the subject in here, neither my opinion, nor anyone else's opinion besides the staff here, matters in regards to piracy, and further "debate" on the subject would just devolve into name-calling and stuff that isn't remotely friendly. Might I suggest pie?

[velinejoseph]

I can't live without internet anyway so... sorry dude. And I don't use pirate game so I have no clue '_'

I hear there's cracked steam or somethin tough '_';; I'm too afraid to even browse about it '_'

[oblivionwithdongs]

There are ways of avoiding steam and still being a semi-legit customer.

If you're not bothered by things like online, you could always do what i do, if there's a game i really want that forces you to use steam, i'll buy a retail copy, install it with phoenix or razor's non-steam installer, then apply a crack.

With the way that the next consoles are looking, and the obsession with digital distribution, i think i might just give up playing videogames.

 

Just to reiterate though: you can buy a retail copy and install it with no traces of steam whatsoever, which seems to be what the OP is after.

[Surenas]

There are some things in this world, folks, that will never change.

Apparently there is a latent must for brinkmanship. And that's that.

 

I'm outty

[galgat]

There are ways of avoiding steam and still being a semi-legit customer.

If you're not bothered by things like online' date=' you could always do what i do, if there's a game i really want that forces you to use steam, i'll buy a retail copy, install it with phoenix or razor's non-steam installer, then apply a crack.

With the way that the next consoles are looking, and the obsession with digital distribution, i think i might just give up playing videogames.

 

Just to reiterate though: you can buy a retail copy and install it with no traces of steam whatsoever, which seems to be what the OP is after.

[/quote']

 

 

I am thinking as you, the fight for personal privacy is a losing battle, no on seems to care anymore.

 

I grow tied of trying to be legal, and stay one step ahead of the ones that slowly take our privacy, and sell it to make there living.

 

I think this game like half life 2 will soon just sit on the shelf at my home.

 

I will fight it a little longer, but no one seems to care or understand the implications of what is happening.

 

In there minds they have accepted that this is the way it is, and we just have to bend over and take it, and smile, giving everyone else profound explanations as to why they are right to do so..

 

like sheep we are being herded in the direction that they decide.

 

I so hate when other people make my mind up for me.

 

[idonotlikeusernames]

 

the first morrowind and oblivion did not even have copy protection. And still people where pirating it. It cost bethesda money. then fallout and new vegas and skyrim wen't a different route. if the pirats did not screw bethesda over' date=' there was no reason for them to do this to there legit gamers.

[/quote']

 

This is not true, since data retention and resale is inherently valuable.

Even if there was no software piracy at all they would still try to collect as much data as possible now that Google and Facebook have shown the world just how valuable detailed customer profiles can be.

It's true that "piracy" provides lobbyists with an easy argument to convince sleazy legislators, but again if piracy wasn't such a big issue they'd have plenty of other arguments to use on both our legislators and the public at large.

For example the companies could claim that having access to all your information allows them to provide you better service at lower cost.

They could also just as easily lobby the government for censorship on some other pretext, such as child pornography, terrorism, tax evasion or anti discrimination.

In such a world an Acta which imposes broadly same limitations on our freedoms could just as easily stand for Advanced Counter Terrorism Act instead of Anti counterfeiting Trade Agreement.

 

[Guest Donkey]

everyone wants to protect there own assets as best they can. there is no more reason to derail this topic even more. It has already been answered as best it can.

 

 

[idonotlikeusernames]

everyone wants to protect there own assets as best they can.

 

 

Sure, the lobbyists are just a symptom, the aforementioned sleazy legislators, who cannot wait to hop in bed with the corporations and their lobbyists are the real problem here.