RaceMenu + CharGen Extension versus ECE (User's View)

[Sunja44]

I know there are already several topics about that, but some are pretty old and do not depend on the newest versions of those mods and their addons.

 

In addition I am just a user who wants for the first time customize/modify his normal Nord race player char. I am not into creating Custom Race followers/NPCs yet, but onedays I may get there.

 

The topic is quite difficult to get for me with all its pros and cons. I currently use ECE, but I wonder about the much larger support for RaceMenu when it comes to addons so far.

 

So far my opinion is:

 

-RaceMenu + CharGenExtension seems to give me almost the exact customization possibilities silderwise as ECE does, when I look at screenshots

 with sliders

-RaceMenu has a lot of support when it comes to warpaints, scars, overlays etc.

 

-ECE has vertex editing, which is a nice feature for the perfectionist, but I am already pleased with my faces I do without that.

-ECE seems to have the much better method to save and export presets to use the created FaceGenData for other NPCs/followers/custom races

 (nose32 save in the CK from where you are able to export it and then rename it according to the actorID you wish to modify).

 

-Unsure: As far as I understand the info I collected RaceMenu has now almost the same sliders as ECE, when you add CharGenExtension but many sliders are useless, when you don't have good morph (.tri) files or the sliders do not work well with customized morph files. ECE has its own non vanilla morph set and customization works pretty awesome with those. I haven't tried RaceMenu with non vanilla .tri files so that would my question, how do they compare?

 

-Unsure: I read some info, that Racemenu has issues when you use non vanilla .tri files not only concerning customizability, but even keeping sliders adjustments and saving them (slider resets, not keeping saved adjustments after the next save load etc.), is that true? I especially mean the by CharGen Extension to RaceMenu added ECE and EEO morphs, do they work well?

 

Unsure: I read some stuff, that saving FaceGens with RaceMenu + CharGenExtension and using them for NPCs is rather complicated, when you do use non vanilla morphs/.tris, because just saving and extracting isn't it, because adjustments with non vanilla sliders aren't correctly saved.

 

Any other info I have not listed here I would gladly appreciate.

 

It's a damned pity that both mods aren't there in a merged version combining all advantages of both.

[blabba]

 

-Unsure: As far as I understand the info I collected RaceMenu has now almost the same sliders as ECE, when you add CharGenExtension but many sliders are useless, when you don't have good morph (.tri) files or the sliders do not work well with customized morph files. ECE has its own non vanilla morph set and customization works pretty awesome with those. I haven't tried RaceMenu with non vanilla .tri files so that would my question, how do they compare?

 

-Unsure: I read some info, that Racemenu has issues when you use non vanilla .tri files not only concerning customizability, but even keeping sliders adjustments and saving them (slider resets, not keeping saved adjustments after the next save load etc.), is that true?

 

1. RaceMenu has all the morphs ECE has, the same exact ones. Their are no differences, they are the SAME FILES. Sliders = .tri morphs when it comes to 'facial features'.

    The only 'legit' complaint about racemenu morphs was that their were no whole face morphs. Expired has 'fixed' this and added morphs to reconfigure the whole face into what the

    pre-morphed faces are with ECE as well as adding RAN's headmesh variants. It's in his next planned release for Racemenu.

 

2. You'd need some weird code or .tri files for the slider's to lose data and not save correctly on non-vanilla morphs. I dunno, I've used Racemenu (not extensively as I can't design faces...) But I've never had that happen to me, and I'd be more than skeptical that if someone reports a claim like this it's more likely they didn't install the stuff correctly.

[Guest]

Call me a perfectionist but I just couldn't play without ECE's vertex edit anymore. Since I always take a lot of time when designing my character's face I notice all the morph flaws and the vertex edit helped me fix one that I consider particularly annoying, namely the "edgy" chin.

 

You should be able to see it on one of my older characters:

 

 

It's especially annoying if those "things" ,in combination with your ENB, create weird shadows on your character's face.

 

If you want an extreme example of it just look at this mod's screenshot of Jenassa: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37861/?

[Mana Yakushima]

Call me a perfectionist but I just couldn't play without ECE's vertex edit anymore. Since I always take a lot of time when designing my character's face I notice all the morph flaws and the vertex edit helped me fix one that I consider particularly annoying, namely the "edgy" chin.

 

You should be able to see it on one of my older characters:

 

DatChin.jpg

 

It's especially annoying if those "things" ,in combination with your ENB, create weird shadows on your character's face.

 

If you want an extreme example of it just look at this mod's screenshot of Jenassa: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37861/?

God, I hate hard edges so much. 70% of the time I'm in the race menu I'm trying to kill them.

[Benmc20]

Just saying : Racemenu has now a vertex editor.

[Guest]

Just saying : Racemenu has now a vertex editor.

Not working in the current version though right? I have it and it and it seems to be just a placeholder, doesn't do anything for me.

 

Blabba's right, but only if you're using the full set of chargen morphs including the ECE ones, and for me that usually introduces a lot of lag, though  I do have a lot of stuff loading.

 

Even without a vertex editor I'd still prefer Race Menu, it's a lot more modular, it's interface feels more sophisticated to use and the sorts of things you'd really want from a full featured character editor seem to find their way into it eventually. 

[Sunja44]

Yep, I read somewhere it isn't working yet, but maybe with the next update.

 

To summarize the above:

 

-RaceMenu + CharGen extension has the same modification/customization possibilities right now with the exception of vertex editing.

-RaceMenu + CharGenExtension has imho much better support when it comes to addons like overlays, face tints etc. SoS Equippable slongs for females demands RaceMenu for example. CharGenExtension not only adds ECE morphs, it does add EEO morphs, which are usually incompatible with ECE as far as I remember.

-RaceMenu has the better UI

-There is no difference anymore if you use vanilla .tri files or customized ones for RaceMenu, it will work.

-There is no difference between ECE and RaceMenu when it comes to saving and restoring your player character.

-You will actually need Disable FaceGenCache for both mods when you run a lot of Eye, Hair mods etc. (I experienced at least no issues at all to load SG Hair 268 version with ECE and disabled FaceGenCache...and thats a lot of hair), but this isn't an issue, ECE and RaceMenu are both compatible.

 

The only open point seems to be the possibility to use RaceMenu/ECE generated FaceGenData for other NPCs and custom races. Extraction with ECE is rather easy, is anybody able to share some info how it does work with RaceMenu? I know it is possible with RaceMenu too, but it seems to be by far not that easy as with ECE. As far as I understood that, you need to use Blender somewhat. A link to a good guide would be appreciated too :-)

 

Oh, and a second point I forgot...how do RaceMenu and ECE behave if you want to use them for high poly head meshes. As far as I know ECE is incompatible, but what's about RaceMenu?

 

At least for a user like me who isn't a genius in photoshop and Blender/NifSkope and is doing his first steps in player char beautification, RaceMenu + ChargenExtension seems to be the better choice. I am leaning strongly towards RaceMenu now.

 

As a last question, are there any problems/issues to just deinstall ECE and install RaceMenu + CharGenExtension in my game? or does a clean save do it, or is it better to start a new game? I ask because as far as I know your ECE playerchar preset will be stored in your SKSE.save game file and I have no idea what happens when you try to load that without ECE.

 

 

[Guest]

 

Oh, and a second point I forgot...how do RaceMenu and ECE behave if you want to use them for high poly head meshes. As far as I know ECE is incompatible, but what's about RaceMenu?

 

 

They should both be incompatible with high poly head meshes simply because the morph files were made for the vanilla head mesh and anything with more polygons screws them up.

[dobmc]

Need, that, camera update! Seriously, if there were to be something missing from ECE, its the adjustable camera position. That's what I want, at least.

 

 

 

are there any problems to just deinstall ECE and install RaceMenu + CharGenExtension in my game?

 

 

does a clean save do it

ahahahahahahahahahahaha. No. I mean the 'yes you will have massive issues with your save and clean saves, what's clean save!? Broski wake up, there are no clean saves.'

Also don't mind me grammar-nazying up your shiz but

 

 

deinstall

*uninstall*

unless you live in the arctics of course

 

 

ECE is dabes

[afa]

Why does it seems like my version of Racemenu is missing some of the sliders that my ECE has when everyone seems to say they are the same.

 

I am missing eyelids, upper eyelids, lower eyelids, and eye rotate at least.

[Benmc20]

Have you added the plugins labeled "ECE" ? There are two in fact : one in the Racemenu page, and another one in the Chargen page.

[dTd]

I dunno, reacemenu with plugins rules if you ask me. I have all apachi hairs (3 files) azar ponytails, obihairs and sg hairs 268 with precache killer and it loads up perfectly. To be honest, the small triangular chin most people seem to make when they use ece annoys me to no end, just saying

[Sunja44]

Need, that, camera update! Seriously, if there were to be something missing from ECE, its the adjustable camera position. That's what I want, at least.

 

 

 

are there any problems to just deinstall ECE and install RaceMenu + CharGenExtension in my game?

 

 

does a clean save do it

ahahahahahahahahahahaha. No. I mean the 'yes you will have massive issues with your save and clean saves, what's clean save!? Broski wake up, there are no clean saves.'

Also don't mind me grammar-nazying up your shiz but

 

 

deinstall

*uninstall*

unless you live in the arctics of course

 

 

ECE is dabes

 

I am aware of the fact that there aren't truly clean saves in this game when it comes to scripts and ECE and RM are both script mods, but a socalled clean save procedure can help to avoid issues with interfering scripts that are both running in the background. Just "deinstalling" one mod and installing another - where both do even very similar things - and doing this change on ONE save, appears as the most stupid variant to me. Nevermind worked fine so far.

 

I actually noticed your edit from "reinstall" to "uninstall" and I guess you know why there are those two different prefixes...might have to do with the fact that they give the word a total different meaning. Nevertheless my dictionary gives me both versions "deinstall" and "uninstali" and I have no idea where you live and why there is a problem for you.

 

Aber Du kannst es gerne mal in dieser Sprache versuchen, da passt dann das Wort "Sprachnazi" auch gleich viel besser.

[Deedlit]

i really tried racemenu, belive, but i still back to ece because i cant handle the face made with racemenu when you look that from side, its not my taste at all, already tried fix that with every possible way but dnt goes like i wanna, if at least vertex work belive i change to racemenu lightspeed, but how that still not working ill keep using ece.

[crudo]

I gave ECE a try, started with RaceMenu.  I liked it but I had some issues with the face being very vertexy (pointy ) plus I had a few CTD afterwards.  What I really liked on ECE over RaceMenu are the body sliders, adjusting the waist, shoulders and such.  For RaceMenu I can only adjust height, weight, butt and boobs.

[Benmc20]

I gave ECE a try, started with RaceMenu.  I liked it but I had some issues with the face being very vertexy (pointy ) plus I had a few CTD afterwards.  What I really liked on ECE over RaceMenu are the body sliders, adjusting the waist, shoulders and such.  For RaceMenu I can only adjust height, weight, butt and boobs.

 

Try the plugins (and Chargen+plugins too).

[Sunja44]

Not to get that wrong, I am not a RaceMenu fanboy who wants to push his opinion through by doing a fake summary for only finding arguments for RM. I actually used ECE and it has advantages.

 

-char creation works out much faster, because where RM has maybe 4 sliders to adjust something, ECE needs just one.

-as I use CBBE and bodyslide, the body shape sliders aren't truly needed for me, but I agree, that are overall nice features and especially cool for

 people who use a body mesh that isn't bodyslide compatible

-on RM I miss the slider to make necks longer, a small tweak for a slightly longer neck gives females a lot of gracefulness.

-the face expression sliders for ECE are a blast and much more user friendly as in RM. In RM you are able to tweak almost the same expression, but you need to try a long time by using brow, eye and mouth sliders.

 

...but as I am pretty pleased by making a face without vertex editing and as I am no modder who can do his stuff by himself, I appreciate the much bigger RM support by addons. Alone Freckle Mania is a blast really.

 

I know people who switch back and forth between the two mods to make almost full advantage of all their features (Vertex Edting, CME save, Exporting etc.), once in a while I will do that too I guess.

[crudo]

 

I gave ECE a try, started with RaceMenu.  I liked it but I had some issues with the face being very vertexy (pointy ) plus I had a few CTD afterwards.  What I really liked on ECE over RaceMenu are the body sliders, adjusting the waist, shoulders and such.  For RaceMenu I can only adjust height, weight, butt and boobs.

 

Try the plugins (and Chargen+plugins too).

 

 

I am using the chargen plugins, I think there are three of them for race menu.  Still can't adjust the body like ECE but I've had much better luck making decent characters with RaceMenu and chargen.

[Guest Kazuma]

what were the problems of using both?

[JaFinmongrab]

I've used both.

 

I really like the HUD setup for Racemenu. It makes navigating certain features much easier and without having to scroll through everything in between, especially when choosing race.

 

But I still prefer ECE for the vertex editor to give my characters a more natural and lively face. The expression sliders just aren't enough to keep the character from looking like a RealDoll.

[dobmc]

 

 

 

Need, that, camera update! Seriously, if there were to be something missing from ECE, its the adjustable camera position. That's what I want, at least.

 

 

 

are there any problems to just deinstall ECE and install RaceMenu + CharGenExtension in my game?

 

 

does a clean save do it

ahahahahahahahahahahaha. No. I mean the 'yes you will have massive issues with your save and clean saves, what's clean save!? Broski wake up, there are no clean saves.'

Also don't mind me grammar-nazying up your shiz but

 

 

deinstall

*uninstall*

unless you live in the arctics of course

 

 

ECE is dabes

 

I am aware of the fact that there aren't truly clean saves in this game when it comes to scripts and ECE and RM are both script mods, but a socalled clean save procedure can help to avoid issues with interfering scripts that are both running in the background. Just "deinstalling" one mod and installing another - where both do even very similar things - and doing this change on ONE save, appears as the most stupid variant to me. Nevermind worked fine so far.

 

I actually noticed your edit from "reinstall" to "uninstall" and I guess you know why there are those two different prefixes...might have to do with the fact that they give the word a total different meaning. Nevertheless my dictionary gives me both versions "deinstall" and "uninstali" and I have no idea where you live and why there is a problem for you.

 

Aber Du kannst es gerne mal in dieser Sprache versuchen, da passt dann das Wort "Sprachnazi" auch gleich viel besser.

 

 

 

Yea, I'm aware of the word is present in the dictionary, Thinking of it now, it was unnecessary for me to correct you. Looks like my fingers wrote the words faster then my mind. As of the edit, unless you're talking about the post you just replied, I probably don't get what you're talking about. I do notice that sarcasm though. But again with the unnecessary correction.

 

Don't really know the necessity of the reference. Still, pretty interesting when translating to German.

 

About the saves, the chances are risky. You're dealing with 'maybe's, but if you haven't had a problem so far then I suppose you don't need to listen.

 

Also I still dream for that update.

[Guest]

what were the problems of using both?

 

They both modify the same thing so it ends in a giant clusterfuck.

 

[Rayblue]

Tried ECE and supporting mods for a while after a very long time using RM+chargen, but after two hours I went back to RM -- tell me why it's so goddamn slow in updating appearance changes whenever I move the sliders.

[Sunja44]

 

 

 

Need, that, camera update! Seriously, if there were to be something missing from ECE, its the adjustable camera position. That's what I want, at least.

 

 

 

are there any problems to just deinstall ECE and install RaceMenu + CharGenExtension in my game?

 

 

does a clean save do it

ahahahahahahahahahahaha. No. I mean the 'yes you will have massive issues with your save and clean saves, what's clean save!? Broski wake up, there are no clean saves.'

Also don't mind me grammar-nazying up your shiz but

 

 

deinstall

*uninstall*

unless you live in the arctics of course

 

 

ECE is dabes

 

I am aware of the fact that there aren't truly clean saves in this game when it comes to scripts and ECE and RM are both script mods, but a socalled clean save procedure can help to avoid issues with interfering scripts that are both running in the background. Just "deinstalling" one mod and installing another - where both do even very similar things - and doing this change on ONE save, appears as the most stupid variant to me. Nevermind worked fine so far.

 

I actually noticed your edit from "reinstall" to "uninstall" and I guess you know why there are those two different prefixes...might have to do with the fact that they give the word a total different meaning. Nevertheless my dictionary gives me both versions "deinstall" and "uninstali" and I have no idea where you live and why there is a problem for you.

 

Aber Du kannst es gerne mal in dieser Sprache versuchen, da passt dann das Wort "Sprachnazi" auch gleich viel besser.

 

 

 

Yea, I'm aware of the word is present in the dictionary, Thinking of it now, it was unnecessary for me to correct you. Looks like my fingers wrote the words faster then my mind. As of the edit, unless you're talking about the post you just replied, I probably don't get what you're talking about. I do notice that sarcasm though. But again with the unnecessary correction.

 

Don't really know the necessity of the reference. Still, pretty interesting when translating to German.

 

About the saves, the chances are risky. You're dealing with 'maybe's, but if you haven't had a problem so far then I suppose you don't need to listen.

 

Also I still dream for that update.

 

I read your bio "I criticise a lot. It's also hard to know my sarcasm. You'll probably get to know me by hate." and I couldn't resist to be sarcastic. I had the opinion you could take it though :-) No issues, peace.

 

I wish for a combined mod that truly has all features in combination + RM addon support. I've heard of the possibility to use RM and ECE together and I guess the word "clusterfuck" describes it very well. You already have some sort of slider clusterfuck when you use RM + CharGenExtension and both Morph options (Nuska + ECE).

 

[blabba]

True peace will come only when someone makes a decent .tri editor and we can finally have somewhat better topology on the heads.

 

Because vanilla face meshes? If you import them and quadrify them, look terribad. And I am simply astounded/amazed with how far some people were able to push it to make good looking characters.