RaceMenu + CharGen Extension versus ECE (User's View)

[Sunja44]

True peace will come only when someone makes a decent .tri editor and we can finally have somewhat better topology on the heads.

 

Because vanilla face meshes? If you import them and quadrify them, look terribad. And I am simply astounded/amazed with how far some people were able to push it to make good looking characters.

 

As far as I know .tri files are a sort of meshes, that are really hard to create in decent quality and in addition give them enough flexibility. It does not compare to simple body .nif files. Somebody who frequently shares stuff with Krista and works with high poly head meshes told me that, no idea if it is true or sounds too exaggerated.

 

...but maybe this is the reason why there is no "Headslide Outfitstudio" yet :-)

 

[Guest]

 

True peace will come only when someone makes a decent .tri editor and we can finally have somewhat better topology on the heads.

 

Because vanilla face meshes? If you import them and quadrify them, look terribad. And I am simply astounded/amazed with how far some people were able to push it to make good looking characters.

 

As far as I know .tri files are a sort of meshes, that are really hard to create in decent quality and in addition give them enough flexibility. It does not compare to simple body .nif files. Somebody who frequently shares stuff with Krista and works with high poly head meshes told me that, no idea if it is true or sounds too exaggerated.

 

...but maybe this is the reason why there is no "Headslide Outfitstudio" yet :-)

 

 

 

My guess, simply from seeing what .tri files normally do, is that they morph the mesh they were designed for (in this case the femalehead mesh), kinda like moving polygons or vertices in a 3d modeling program. They aren't new separate meshes but just modify the head mesh you're using.

 

That'd 1. explain why everything with a different polygon count than the mesh that the morph's based on doesn't work because it can't handle editing more polygons than it was designed for

 

and

 

2. Why the face creation is often not flexible enough or ends up looking rectangular because a lot of people know what kind of weird results can occur when editing low poly meshes.

 

 

 

This would also mean that even just a tesselated vanilla head mesh, with working morph files, would already be a huge improvement simply because it would have less rough edges when morphing it.

 

[DeltaD36]

ECE seemed to allow me to edit all Custom Reaces, while even with the custom Race Chargen Plugin, Chargen does not do it. the Ningheim and Elven Overhaul ones do, but none of the others work.

[Riex]

Call me a perfectionist but I just couldn't play without ECE's vertex edit anymore. Since I always take a lot of time when designing my character's face I notice all the morph flaws and the vertex edit helped me fix one that I consider particularly annoying, namely the "edgy" chin.

 

You should be able to see it on one of my older characters:

 

DatChin.jpg

 

It's especially annoying if those "things" ,in combination with your ENB, create weird shadows on your character's face.

 

If you want an extreme example of it just look at this mod's screenshot of Jenassa: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37861/?

I cannot agree more, while I switched to RaceMenu recently I used to use both because I love the file structure of RaceMenu but cannot stand that chin crap. Also I really loved one of the noses from ECE.

[afa]

Got the new Racemenu and try to make a new character with it. Having a nightmare of a time getting the character to look right, but that could be just me being terrible at making faces in general.

However some sliders aren't arranged in the best way, there are often two different set of sliders that does the same thing, one is more extreme than the other, but scrolling through them is harder that it should since they aren't located close to each other.

 

I also can't get the chin/jaw/under-eye cheek bone to produce a smooth face. The face weight and cheek front and back seems to be a nice touch tho....if I can get it to look right.

Tried RANs headmesh, still no good. Ended up just getting a preset and tweak from there.

 

Will mess with it more later. The overlay function along with Slavetats is the only way I have found to produce nail color on individual character without affecting every other NPC.

[Niobia]

I just wish the new Racemenu included stuff like the hand size slider and leg and torso slider then I'd be golden. I've made so many faces it's almost become second nature for me so I know what sliders not to touch or only touch a little to avoid getting a horrible pointy looking face. It's way too easy to mess up the head shape and making a decent but unique nose is HARD. Making a proper and unique set of lips is challenging too but not as hard as the nose.

 

I usually like to start with the eye shape, then the mouth and then see what nose brings it all together. Most of the time, adjusting the height of the mouth, nose, and eyes makes all the difference so you have to do a lot of experimenting. You start to notice subtle things like that when staring at faces long enough. It's 50% knowing what the sliders will doa nd how they'll interact with each other and 50% realizing what you want/need to change or move to get the result you want. The latter is actually more challenging than the former.

[Sunja44]

I just wish the new Racemenu included stuff like the hand size slider and leg and torso slider then I'd be golden. I've made so many faces it's almost become second nature for me so I know what sliders not to touch or only touch a little to avoid getting a horrible pointy looking face. It's way too easy to mess up the head shape and making a decent but unique nose is HARD. Making a proper and unique set of lips is challenging too but not as hard as the nose.

 

I usually like to start with the eye shape, then the mouth and then see what nose brings it all together. Most of the time, adjusting the height of the mouth, nose, and eyes makes all the difference so you have to do a lot of experimenting. You start to notice subtle things like that when staring at faces long enough. It's 50% knowing what the sliders will doa nd how they'll interact with each other and 50% realizing what you want/need to change or move to get the result you want. The latter is actually more challenging than the former.

 

Yep, although Expired is up to integrate many ECE features, there are still some missing (...and the slider cluster fuck where sliders do the same thing is not the best solution right now too).

 

Besides the sliders you mentioned I miss especially the neck slider. RM has a slider to make necks thinner/thicker now, but not longer. I loved that slider, because giving females a slightly longer neck added a lot of grace to them. 

 

Although RM is now able to do many things ECE can do, face creation with RM lasts almost thrice the time you needed with ECE...

 

I am still running RM because I wanted Freckle Mania, I just love that mod.

[afa]

Any reason why it is so much harder get a good face in RM than ECE tho? Even if RM has almost all of ECE's facial sliders

I just can't get RM to produce a smooth face, they always end up with weird "corners" either under eye, jaw, chin, cheek, poking out from both ends of mouth, the lips itself, etc.

 

I tried different head mesh it is still weird, what exactly is different between the two of them by this point besides interface and the vertex editor?

[gvman3670]

Any reason why it is so much harder get a good face in RM than ECE tho? Even if RM has almost all of ECE's facial sliders

I just can't get RM to produce a smooth face, they always end up with weird "corners" either under eye, jaw, chin, cheek, poking out from both ends of mouth, the lips itself, etc.

 

I tried different head mesh it is still weird, what exactly is different between the two of them by this point besides interface and the vertex editor?

 

ECE uses a different head mesh. And adding Ran's ECEE plugin/extension really gives ECE more flexibility.

 

I've used both RM and ECE. I still prefer ECE with ECEE attached to it.