Brotherhood of Steel

[shardoom]

There is only one BoS. In fact there is only one MEMBER of the BoS.

The most badass BoS fella ever. Elijah.

 

Me and Elijah personally kicked the fuck out of everyone, everywhere with super toxic fog that you can't defend against.

You can't tell me we didn't either, I fucking saw it happen!

[ChancellorKremlin]

I'm sure someone might've said it ain't really fallout without vaults, supermutants run amock, the vestiges of shady government organizations, and a bunch of guys with power armor and plasma rifles.

 

Get out!    

 

There is only one BoS. In fact there is only one MEMBER of the BoS.

The most badass BoS fella ever. Elijah.

 

Me and Elijah personally kicked the fuck out of everyone, everywhere with super toxic fog that you can't defend against.

You can't tell me we didn't either, I fucking saw it happen!

lol... Elijah, I'm more of a Veronica-Christine man myself, but whatever floats your boat!

[Halstrom]

Canon Smanon, it's all Fallout Genre is all I care, it's not based on a movie or book, it's just being pieced together as it flows by different people & companies

If you followed everything to the letter from FO1, FO2 was probably breaking the rules too..........................

[Guest carywinton]

I am fairly new to the Fallout series and I have a lot of conflicting opinions about the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood in the Capital Wasteland (Fallout 3) seemed like cool people. Granting you Power Armor training right off the bat, assisting with various tasks... they really seemed like cool people. Whereas the Brotherhood in the Mojave Wasteland (Fallout New Vegas) seemed like assholes. Stripping you of your gear, putting an explosive collar on ya, refusing further assistance if you've already had Power Armor Training. Which is understandable what with being in war with the NCR but still... And then there's Elijah in Dead Money DLC. I know it's not fair to point at the mad men to draw your conclusions of what may very well be an entire society. From where I stand, it seems like the Brotherhood in Mojave Wasteland seem like off-shoots. They were kinda like the Enclave but not quite.

 

I'm asking because I don't have the previous games and if anyone played them and have more insight into this quasi-religious organization, as described in wiki, they might be willing to share.

 

What I want to know is: Would The Brotherhood really be so zealous as to deny themselves the chance to survive just a little longer so they can protect humanity? I know they're supposed they see themselves as guardian of human kind, but that guardian dies who will protect humanity? And if that happened who might, really?

 

To answer this, we can look historically at the Brotherhood of Steel's beginnings out West,  "When dying embers of society still glowed, we were not interested in saving individual tribes or communities, we focused on saving humanity itself."  This is more a less a straight quote from one of the BOS themselves in game, so to me that pretty much summed it up, Elder Lions basically went "Native" in FO3 because he saw where the BOS technology could finally save lives. Obviously this upset a few of the hard line purists and they went "Outcast". So fast forward a bit to New Vegas, one of the last pockets of BOS struggling to hang on, in total underground isolation for who knows how long, years I think I heard stated from one of the Scribes. They had suffered a huge defeat at the hands of the NCR and Brother Elijah's near madness for Archimedes II the super beam deployment device housed inside the power plant of Helios One. So yes they became quite paranoid and suspicious of anyone outside of their "chapter".

So lets say you chose to "help" them and gave them what they needed to allow outside activities again, I still doubt this BOS chapter would be able to take on the roll of "Last Best Hope for Humanity". Maybe when siding with NCR they might add to their ranks some and flourish. If the decision went bad for the Mojave chapter of the BOS and they met an unfortunate accident where their entire bunker just happened to blow up? Well then NCR might hang on for a few years, but a pretty smart Mutant up at Jacobstown who tells you about Shady Sands, I think really has the right idea on the longevity of the NCR. So what will happen when the NCR crumbles? Stay tuned for Fallout 4, the answers are coming.

[Hentai-chan]

Reading about all of this, does any one calculate that Lyons had some kind of pull? Just think of it, he was sent to East to recover Pre-War tech and  in the heart of the Pentagon, now re-named Citadel, he finds Liberty Prime, killing machine from before the war. Tribute of a world long-dead. What if his setting up shop in D.C. is merely a cover-up for the LP to get it running again and to make sure that it stays in the right hands?

 

Why is BoS converted to "knights in shining armor", you ask? Publicity. Acting as heroes of the Wasteland, the last bastion of hope for humaninty. All for one simple goal: Restoration of Liberty Prime. In that light, Lyons may still have the well-being of Brotherhood at heart. I don't know. It's something I came up with.

 

I understand for players coming in from FO3, they must seem strange initially, given the "proclivities" of FO3's faction.

Actually, my first Fallout experience was FNV, I took up FO3, afterwards. I didn't care much about the lore untill recently.

[Duoleb The Chosen]

if indy "Good, every 1 alive, Caesar and Lanius Dead, Hanlon alive, Upgraded Securitrons, Mojave BOS buddies with NCR" is canon

 

i can see the brotherhood deciding to go with the courier to ensure their survival, going even East coast in some terms

 

McNamara knew that Veronica was Right, but he couldn't do nothing fearing retaliation from some members like Hardin, also, it appears that the West coast Before Veronica was Exiled received some news about the East coast Progress along with the Outcasts

 

i think that it wouldn't be a surprised if some Outcast members or even Sarah's(by now i think that Elder lyons may be dead and sarah took his place) Brotherhood decided to pay a visit to their west coast counterparts after the shitstorm that it was the 2nd battle of Hoover dam and the Fall of the NCR and Caesar's Legion

 

 

also the Elders on the Core region are killing themselves for power

[jxm]

No, I don't mean that, I mean that setting's internal consistency and verisimilitude. Nothing in it made sense for me. In fact, wouldn't you have preferred it if they had made the Capital Wasteland their setting, and to go with it, added their own new content, factions and styoryline, and just gave nods here and there to the West Coast, rather than basically re-doing the whole thing again in a different place? I know I would.

 

For the record, I would actually really like a Fallout set in Europe. But again, if it happened, I wouldn't even want to see a mention of any of the other fallout games. I'd want it to be totally original and innovative. FO3 had the chance to be that game, but their recycling just didn't cut it for me.

 

 

I am afraid it doesn't work like this. Those "nods" to the original, they were very much needed, at least I understand why they went that route. This game, Fallout 3, was a high risk for them. Success not guaranteed. They had only picked up the rights to this franchise, and there has been a sequel long in development whcih they scrapped (Van-Buren) and they went all risky with going 3-d and making the game like Elder Scrolls.

 

That change alone didn't fly well with a lot of purists...so I fully understand that Beth wanted to rely on some foundations from the previous games, to ease the impact of the new approach to the franchise a bit. At least that's what I would have done as well...instead of totally alienate fans with not only a new kind of gameplay as well as having NO connections to the previous games ...

 

I rather have a problem with the Enclave-part of FO3, which I find totally silly and not very good. A triangle between New BoS, the Outcasts and the Supermutants might have been better...but things are done.

 

Hm...maybe I should take my time and just post my ideas for a European Fallout sometime ... they're quite detailed enough to fill a large post, yet despite the new setting, they would clearly have at least some connections to the original game, using a cheap but trusted plot-mechanic Might make for some nice though pointless discussion

[nyaalich]

Bear in mind that I haven't actually played The Pitt DLC, but without spoilers for those who haven't either...

 

I think that the results of what happened in The Pitt probably made Elder Lyons shift away from the original BoS's plans and having a direct, positive influence on the wasteland.

 

And stop being so goddamned eloquent, CK. 

[DoctaSax]

I don't think so actually. The chapter happened upon the Pitt while on an expedition to seek contact with the MidWestern chapter, which they failed to do. The Scourge wasn't an act of exacting justice on all the scum and critters that lived there: something was recovered from the ruins, although we don't know what. That's still classic BoS behavior: don't let anything, let alone a bunch of raiders and critters, stand in your way of getting some tech.

For some reason or other, they pushed onward to Washington DC, maybe on the trail of more tech, maybe as part of the original recon mission. They saw the Citadel, what's left of the Pentagon, and wanted it, attacking the muties that had overrun DC head on. To the locals, they were saviors and heroes for that. The tech recovered at the Pentagon, especially Liberty Prime, got Lyons promoted to elder, and he got orders to establish a permanent presence there. Now, how do you do this when you only set out on a recon mission? No backup, no reinforcements for the losses in your battles with the mutants, and vastly outnumbered in a neverending war. You start recruiting locals, they worship you anyway and it's the only way to succeed in the mission of maintaning their presence out there, hence the gradual erosion of the isolationism, and taking a beating every now and then does away with some of the superiority complex.

 

The BoS in general never operated like a gang or a government organization, and they're not tied to a location either - they're more like a chivalric order. Sure, that doesn't mean they can't be dicks looking out for number one when there's fuck all to do but grabbing tech from some isolated pockets of humanity, but they are susceptible to ideas like honour and the like when it's do or die time, as in the DC supermutant and enclave wars. If you call yourselves knights and paladins anyway, becoming the good guys comes easy.

[nyaalich]

So much   for the lore in this thread.

[A.J.]

Agree. At least I'm learning there are real reasons to hate BoS which have far more sense than the irrational annoyance Sarah Lyons gives to me...

[KainsChylde]

Fallout 1: BoS and the Vault Dweller go to war against The Master and his mutant hordes.

Fallout 2: BoS acts as a shadowy background organization aiding the Chosen One in fighting the Enclave to rescue their village and the survivors of Vault 13.

Fallout Tactics: A BoS expedition to the midwest searching for Vault 0 encounters problems, loses a zeppelin full of personnel and supplies. Upon learning of local troubles, they turn to the local population for mutual aid.

Fallout 3: East Coast chapter of BoS, secluded from the "home office" as it were, encounters not 1 but 2 former enemies and aids the local populace in defence from them.

Fallout New Vegas: Mojave BoS, in a background secondary role only loosely connected to the main quest, has been run into the ground by a former elder in a pointless war against a former ally. Meeting a new player in the local power structure, they send out feelers to determine whether or not they should continue hiding in their hole in the ground.

 

Looking at this summary, everyone is right that one of these things is not like the others. They're just attacking the wrong one.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

Fallout 1: The goals of the BoS and Vault Dweller are the same; they use the VD to reach it.

Fallout 2: The BoS use the Chosen One to further their own means and support the fight against the Enclave to maintain technological superiority.

Fallout 3: The BoS used James for their goal. They then use the Lone Wanderer in the hopes of finally achieving that goal.

NV: The BoS use the Courier for their own means.

 

The BoS are still the same underneath, it's just the way they present themselves is different.

[legendarytoyou]

You learn through bitter experience that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.  The Capital Wasteland BoS is no exception.  For the longest time I've had kind like a little back-story fan fiction for a character of mine on Fallout 3 and during one she makes it VERY clear she doesn't trust the DC BoS Chapter.  Even if they're trying to do the right thing they're still Brotherhood of Steel and will gladly shoot you in the back if it garners them a new form of tech.  I can almost guarantee that if they got wind of say the Lone Wanderer's discovery of alien weaponry they wouldn't hesitate to try and procure that from him/her.  Lyons would vehemently against the idea but would probably abstain in fear of having an all out revolt, possible abandonment of the Citadel save his daughter and Lyon's Pride.  BoS is still BoS no matter what good intentions are there.

 

As for the other argument that they don't fit into the series I must disagree.  There's a lot of land between the West and East Coast and without actual reliable communication it can take weeks or months to get messages across.  In all respect the DC BoS is their own rogue chapter in a way and nobody in their right mind would intentionally try to cross the Divide and into the Midwest unless they were crazy (which given Ulysses dialogue is a possibility  ) or desperate.  I have to admit though I do see what you mean ChancellorKremlin; DC BoS feels a little to simplistic and slapped together.  Almost like a last minute, "knights in shining armor," bit that kind of puts a quirk in the whole story.  My guess is with just the Wastelanders and RIvet CIty would be an almost futile attempt to reclaim the Purifier in any way.  They needed a heavy hitter and aside from the Legion (whom have little interest of the East Coast) or the NCR (whom have next to NO interest in the East Coast) the BoS was their only alternative.  Then again I don't think it would've hurt them if say the East Coast had its own factions/tribes.  That would've been a bit more interesting I think.

[Hentai-chan]

Then again I don't think it would've hurt them if say the East Coast had its own factions/tribes.  That would've been a bit more interesting I think.

I would agree. I didn't play the first two Fallout but there's few things I hate more than recycled ideas. Very similar to my argument with SR:TT and SRIV. SR:TT Johnny Gat is supposed to be dead and, even though I have nothing against him, I really preferred they looked for an other way.

 

Judging from what I read here, instead of putting Enclave on the spotlight, I think they could have went with a major Slaver faction or something. Since Mutant and Enclave ideas had already been used. Or perhaps the Outcasts. They look for tech as much as the rogue BoS chapter, right? They might have been interested in the Purifier.

[Guest carywinton]

The only reason I can see for the "Outcast" having any interest in the Purifier at all is if they could develop some kind of "water weapon" with it. To produce water in those quantities would be vastly larger than anything they would want to do, based on the fact it would be helping far too many and causing way more attention to their "order" than the Outcast would want. They seem more like a shadow type organization that prefer to hide out and seek tech more secretly.

I would have liked to have seen Rivet City, who is in desperate need of clean water take a more central role in the retaking of Project Purity, with maybe a league of escaped androids from The Institute spear heading the operations. As you will soon see this would have fit in much better with what is "possibly" to come, oh did I just say that? shhh!

[Hentai-chan]

What would escaped androids want with a Purifier? You'd think they'd just want to live peacefully. Although I can see the Institute hiring Talons to secure the Purifier to study so they can clean the Missisippi or sell it to other regions in the wasteland for unbeliavably expensive amount of caps. I would have given Talons a more important role in the storyline, too.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

If the Institute can make androids with true AI, they wouldn't need some jury rigged purifier made by a bunch of wasters.

[Hentai-chan]

Wouldn't that be just a bit spicy? I know they have can make androids but they can't possibly have enough resources turn every human who lives in Boston. And they don't have to use it to purify anything, they can use as a bargaining chip so they can freely turn locals into guinea pigs. "We give you a purifier so you don't have to drink some ass-tasting, irradiated water and we can turn your people to our very own Frankensteins". Isn't that how all companies work?

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

Considering the only reason a member of the Institute even came to the Capital Wasteland was to get their property back, I can assume that they have no interest at all in the people there. And just because they're a part of the Commonwealth doesn't mean that would care about anything outside of what was once MIT. I mean, they work in a nearly sealed environment, away from the rest of the world, safe because of SCIENCE!

 

Really, it's Big Mountain only on the East Coast. And potentially without the brain in a jar that was horny.

[KainsChylde]

If the Institute can make androids with true AI, they wouldn't need some jury rigged purifier made by a bunch of wasters.

 

How does artificial intelligence in any way compare to water purification? That's like saying the scientists working on the Large Hadron Collider at CERN don't need plumbers.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

Okay, it was a bad example. But still, if they've survived this long they obviously either have, or created, a means to purify water on a scale large enough to meet their needs. You cannot tell me they could be a self contained environment devoted to such technological advancement if they didn't have access to clean water.

 

I mean, if James and his team could do it on a small scale and come up with an, albeit still incomplete way to purify water in only what seemed to be a few years, then I'm sure the remnants, and now descendants of the people in MIT could have come up with a way pretty quickly, especially since they must have had access to so much pre-war knowledge and tech.

[nyaalich]

Also, you turn people into cyborgs not androids.

[KainsChylde]

MIT is a closed environment. Small-scale purification isn't an issue, and is fairly simple. Look at vaults, Rivet City, the Raven Rock facility, and others for examples of small-scale purification. Project Purity is not small-scale. They're looking to purify the entire Potomac Tidal Basin, with plans to back-fill up the Potomac River. That is several orders of magnitude larger and more complicated than purifying and/or recycling a finite water supply in a closed system.

[ChianasGeek]

Yeah, 'specially as that all connects to the Atlantic ocean (unless my geography's all wrong). So, an ongoing process of purification.