Brotherhood of Steel

[Hentai-chan]

I am fairly new to the Fallout series and I have a lot of conflicting opinions about the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood in the Capital Wasteland (Fallout 3) seemed like cool people. Granting you Power Armor training right off the bat, assisting with various tasks... they really seemed like cool people. Whereas the Brotherhood in the Mojave Wasteland (Fallout New Vegas) seemed like assholes. Stripping you of your gear, putting an explosive collar on ya, refusing further assistance if you've already had Power Armor Training. Which is understandable what with being in war with the NCR but still... And then there's Elijah in Dead Money DLC. I know it's not fair to point at the mad men to draw your conclusions of what may very well be an entire society. From where I stand, it seems like the Brotherhood in Mojave Wasteland seem like off-shoots. They were kinda like the Enclave but not quite.

 

I'm asking because I don't have the previous games and if anyone played them and have more insight into this quasi-religious organization, as described in wiki, they might be willing to share.

 

What I want to know is: Would The Brotherhood really be so zealous as to deny themselves the chance to survive just a little longer so they can protect humanity? I know they're supposed they see themselves as guardian of human kind, but that guardian dies who will protect humanity? And if that happened who might, really?

[ChancellorKremlin]

No, you've got it backwards.

 

The FO3 BoS are the offshoots. The Brotherhood of Steel was never meant to be this "Knights in Shining Armor" crap Bethesda fed us with FO3. Granted, in FO1-2, they weren't really "asssholes", they were just insular, narrow minded technological zealots, with a singular purpose of preserving, hoarding and limiting access to technology. That's what the BoS are all about. 

 

That being said, in both FO1 and FO2, they did assist the player on occasions where their goals met, and those goals usually involved saving humanity as a whole. So they do have a good side to them. But they are selfish, greedy, and "holier than thou" while doing it. In FNV, maybe you need to take into account they've been on the losing side of a war, under intense stress and pressure, and holed up in that bunker for a long time. Needless to say they'll be a bit edgy. But depending on your choices of who you put in charge and your relationship with them (and Veronica) you can change that.

 

But no, FO3's BoS are just a caricature, a cheap, bastardised knock-off that has no place in the series. 

[alphaman94]

You can learn all the difference between the 3 factions in this 2 youtube video.

 

 

[Victoria K.]

The Brotherhood in the Capital Wasteland (Fallout 3) seemed like cool people. Granting you Power Armor training right off the bat, assisting with various tasks... they really seemed like cool people. Whereas the Brotherhood in the Mojave Wasteland (Fallout New Vegas) seemed like assholes.

 

Yes, indeed, they are. That's why I always blown that BoS bunker sky high and get rid of them in NV.

 

The Capital Wasteland division it's an exception. Love it

 

[shardoom]

I always make sure to force cooperation between the NCR and BoS if I do a NCR or Yesman play through.

I'm the fucking main character and THEY will do as they're told, like it or not.

 

I've recently gained access to the House + BoS 'truce' option too, haven't tested it out yet but if it works, that'll become a staple too.

 

I VERY rarely play legion but even when I do, I can't ever seem to come up with a scenario where the BoS would lower themselves to make an alliance with the puffs in skirts. Even if it is to fuck up the NCR. 

[A.J.]

 

The Capital Wasteland division it's an exception. Love it

 

 

And what about me? I'm obliged to stick with your annoying cousin Sarah Lyon just because my irresponsible dad said that! You know what, I really would love to re-write the whole story of the Citadel, with a fatman

 

I don't know BoS from the first two chapters, but from what I understood the real BoS attitude is the one in NV, but also the one of the BoS Outcasts of FO3, those who tell you sometimes things like "Hey local, shouldn't you be banging rocks together or something?"

[Victoria K.]

And what about me? I'm obliged to stick with your annoying cousin Sarah Lyon

 

Hmm, not one of my favorite characters really, she's sometimes annoying for me too.

I would say she's one those annoying cousins I feel affection for but I don't like to have too much around.

 

[jxm]

But no, FO3's BoS are just a caricature, a cheap, bastardised knock-off that has no place in the series. 

 

That's pretty harsh...so everything everytime needs to be just exactly as it ever was? No evolution, no new ideas? After every game, teh old status quo has to be reset?That's ... pretty boring, if you ask me...

 

And just sayin' that Bethesda very much acknowledged that this Brotherhood-Version was different. It was the whole point of their backstory as well as their misery...they ignored their own codex of non-interferring, and got themselves into deep shit ... and not to forget the "Brotherhood Outcasts" you can encounter in Fallout 3 ... they also make qquite clear what a bunch of assholes the "original" Brotherhood really is...it's not if they just ignored anything from the previous game and "retconned" it, no, they took elemets of the original games and evolved them further, in their own way...a good way, if you ask me...

 

No, I think the Brotherhood we see in D.C. has very much its place and is a logical step forward...and I was delighted to see and hear that the original Brotherhood is all but wiped out...so I suppose that the D.C.-Branch will eventually "revitalize" the Brotherhood's ideas of "preserving" on the Eastcoast, , though with a more human-centred touch, becoming somewhat a haven of civilization like the NCR did...

 

Besides I think Bethesda actually is fairly good with adding some "spice and changes" to their worlds...the same is with Tamriel and Skyrim .. I really like the "new era" there ... the Empire is all but gone, war is everywhere, the former "status quo" totally upset, the Aldmeri-Dominion a wholly new power for future games...

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

The BoS of Fallout 3 was a natural evolution of the Midwest chapter, which when cut off from the main body had to adapt to survive. This meant letting in tribals and, eventually, normally undesirables like ghouls, super mutants and even intelligent death claws. The Capital Wasteland chapter has it rougher, since the only super mutants they have are the much more stupid type and there are no intelligent ones on the East Coast, so they're stuck with the tribals, meaning they need to make the most of it.

 

The Outcasts were hardline puritans to the cause, but like the West Coast they're willing to work with the unwashed masses if it falls in line with their own goals. The thing is, even the West Coasters were willing to let outsiders join them, so if anything, it seems the Outcasts may be even more insular than the main branch. Which is to be expected, since they felt a deep betrayal by their own, they're small in number so one mole could likely destroy them and the Capital Wasteland is an even bigger shit hole than the West Coast even a century prior.

 

Honestly, if the Brotherhood is to survive, they need to become more in line with the Midwest and East Coast proper chapters. Fallout 2 always felt like they were in serious decline to begin with since their only presence was one guy and some bunkers, and NV, while I loathe a lot of the story, showed the logical conclusion to their insular practices; nearly wiped out and in hiding.

[Hentai-chan]

 

In FNV, maybe you need to take into account they've been on the losing side of a war, under intense stress and pressure, and holed up in that bunker for a long time.

I did state that I understood their reasons, didn't I? That was just my first impression of the Brotherhood. Sympathy came afterwards when I recruited and chatted up Veronica a bit.

 

so everything everytime needs to be just exactly as it ever was? No evolution, no new ideas? After every game, teh old status quo has to be reset?

A certain alien, when remarked about ensuring peace, said 'A static mode of existence. Nothing grows, nothing lives.' These words do not exact apply since the topic in question was about war. But I think the general idea applies here. If there's a profile of person that I am not quite fond of, it is a narrow-minded person, hardly able to see what's beyond what he already knows and not willing to grow.

 

I saw the polarity between the BoS at the Capital and the Outcasts first-hand when I started Operation: Anchorage but I never put any amount of thought into it.

 

it seems the Outcasts may be even more insular than the main branch. Which is to be expected, since they felt a deep betrayal by their own, they're small in number so one mole could likely destroy them and the Capital Wasteland is an even bigger shit hole than the West Coast even a century prior.

Which makes them hardly any more diiferent than the Enclave. Only difference is they don't shoot people on sight.

 

if the Brotherhood is to survive, they need to become more in line with the Midwest and East Coast proper chapters. Fallout 2 always felt like they were in serious decline to begin with since their only presence was one guy and some bunkers, and NV, while I loathe a lot of the story, showed the logical conclusion to their insular practices; nearly wiped out and in hiding.

I don't think they want to. Given how blindly they serve that code of theirs, I think, no, I know that they're more willing to let themselves die. Pursuing ideals that are long dead. As dead as the Old World and Earth itself. Which is just sad for them, really.

 

 

FO3's BoS are just a caricature, a cheap, bastardised knock-off that has no place in the series.

I think they have a place in the series because they represent the future of the Brotherhood. Do you intend to live so you may serve humanity as its solemn protector or do you prefer extinction?

[DoctaSax]

But no, FO3's BoS are just a caricature, a cheap, bastardised knock-off that has no place in the series. 

 

Nah, for something to really be a cheap knock-off it at least has to pretend to be the real thing. It doesn't. It's clearly established there was a clear break with the BoS in general and that the chapter has gone native. Good thing too, otherwise people'd be complaining how implausible it is there are still pockets of humanity left among all the muties.

[ChancellorKremlin]

That's pretty harsh...so everything everytime needs to be just exactly as it ever was? No evolution, no new ideas? After every game, teh old status quo has to be reset?That's ... pretty boring, if you ask me...

 

And just sayin' that Bethesda very much acknowledged that this Brotherhood-Version was different. It was the whole point of their backstory as well as their misery...they ignored their own codex of non-interferring, and got themselves into deep shit ... and not to forget the "Brotherhood Outcasts" you can encounter in Fallout 3 ... they also make qquite clear what a bunch of assholes the "original" Brotherhood really is...it's not if they just ignored anything from the previous game and "retconned" it, no, they took elemets of the original games and evolved them further, in their own way...a good way, if you ask me...

 

No, I think the Brotherhood we see in D.C. has very much its place and is a logical step forward...and I was delighted to see and hear that the original Brotherhood is all but wiped out...so I suppose that the D.C.-Branch will eventually "revitalize" the Brotherhood's ideas of "preserving" on the Eastcoast, , though with a more human-centred touch, becoming somewhat a haven of civilization like the NCR did...

 

Besides I think Bethesda actually is fairly good with adding some "spice and changes" to their worlds...the same is with Tamriel and Skyrim .. I really like the "new era" there ... the Empire is all but gone, war is everywhere, the former "status quo" totally upset, the Aldmeri-Dominion a wholly new power for future games...

It may be harsh, but it also conveniently happens to be true! 

 

As for the rest, oh please! The BoS as interpreted by Bethesda is just another sympton of their complete lack of imagination when it comes to the franchise. I agree, change is good, new factions are good, a new story is good. They took nearly EVERYTHING from Fallout 2 and recycled it, and made it worse. Main plot about crazy enclave wanting to kill everyone off? Check. BoS? Check. Mutants? Check. Raiders (heavily watered down) - check. Basically, they had to make a bland, typical and derivative "good vs evil" story, and what better people to fill the boots of the knights in shining armor than the BoS, right? It was watered down garbage. 

 

I'd actually preferred it if they'd just taken the story and moved it completely in a new direction, with their own intepretation, motives and goals, rather than just re-hashing FO2, which was already in itself a re-hash of FO1. 

 

The outcasts are simply there as the most cynical of nods to the original BoS. My problem with it, isn't necessarily that they are good guys, but that their story is wasted and makes no sense. We're told they're being handed their asses in fighting the mutants in DC, these guys with miniguns, powerarmour and gatling lasers, when a cave filled with children within walking distance of the mutant main base of operations is protected by a flimsy wooden wall.

 

No, they make no sense whatsoever. 

 

The BoS of Fallout 3 was a natural evolution of the Midwest chapter, which when cut off from the main body had to adapt to survive. This meant letting in tribals and, eventually, normally undesirables like ghouls, super mutants and even intelligent death claws. The Capital Wasteland chapter has it rougher, since the only super mutants they have are the much more stupid type and there are no intelligent ones on the East Coast, so they're stuck with the tribals, meaning they need to make the most of it.

 

The Outcasts were hardline puritans to the cause, but like the West Coast they're willing to work with the unwashed masses if it falls in line with their own goals. The thing is, even the West Coasters were willing to let outsiders join them, so if anything, it seems the Outcasts may be even more insular than the main branch. Which is to be expected, since they felt a deep betrayal by their own, they're small in number so one mole could likely destroy them and the Capital Wasteland is an even bigger shit hole than the West Coast even a century prior.

 

Honestly, if the Brotherhood is to survive, they need to become more in line with the Midwest and East Coast proper chapters. Fallout 2 always felt like they were in serious decline to begin with since their only presence was one guy and some bunkers, and NV, while I loathe a lot of the story, showed the logical conclusion to their insular practices; nearly wiped out and in hiding.

 

 This I actually agree with. But, in FNV, that "change" does indeed seem to be a moving point for some characters, like Veronica, and you do get to play a large role in it. That I find much more believable. Besides, as you pointed out, even FO2's BoS allowed outsiders in, even if under certain circumstances.

 

I'm not saying I disagree with them having to evolve and allow members into their ranks, I disagree with the complete change of philosophy and direction they experienced in FO3. 

 

I did state that I understood their reasons, didn't I? That was just my first impression of the Brotherhood. Sympathy came afterwards when I recruited and chatted up Veronica a bit.

I understand for players coming in from FO3, they must seem strange initially, given the "proclivities" of FO3's faction. 

 

Which makes them hardly any more diiferent than the Enclave. Only difference is they don't shoot people on sight.

Not really, they're on complete opposites of the spectrum.

 

The Enclave are an almost neo-Nazi like organisation with designs to "redeem" America "by any means necessary" and have the nation rise from the ashes, in their own twisted way - free of "mutants" and that includes nearly EVERYONE not already a member of the Enclave.

 

The BoS, on the other hand, recognise the nuclear apocalypse was the worst possible thing to happen to mankind, and to ensure it never happens again, fanatically pursue that "codex" of theirs that any form of advanced weaponry must be kept away from the hands of those that don't know how to use it.

 

It was never their policy to "shoot people on sight" in FO1-2 unless you happened to stumble upon a base of theirs, but I'm fairly sure most militaries do that anyway. FO3, I believe, painted the "original" BoS in a harsher light to contrast them to how "good" the "new" BoS was. They did this by giving them black armor (you know they're evil if their in black, right?) and basically making them assholes. That's why I take neither BoS on the east coast seriously.

 

In FNV, they have become a lot more isolationist and aggressive, but it's implied its because of how divided, isolated, and battle-fatigued they have become from a protracted war in which they are on the losing side, which I think is plausible. As Kyubey said, it all went downhill for them from FO1. 

 

I think they have a place in the series because they represent the future of the Brotherhood. Do you intend to live so you may serve humanity as its solemn protector or do you prefer extinction?

Again, I don't have a problem with the destination, it's how they got there. To me, the chaos surrounding the BoS in FNV is infinitely more plausible than the sudden, dramatic and fairy-tale change portrayed in FO3. I just don't buy it.

 

Nah, for something to really be a cheap knock-off it at least has to pretend to be the real thing. It doesn't. It's clearly established there was a clear break with the BoS in general and that the chapter has gone native. Good thing too, otherwise people'd be complaining how implausible it is there are still pockets of humanity left among all the muties.

Lots of things are implausible in the capital wasteland, so I just add this to a long, long list, regardless 

[DoctaSax]

Honestly, CK, you keep criticizing FO3's 'interpretation' of the BoS while FO3 doesn't have THE BoS at all. It's a rogue chapter, and the BoS as you know it doesn't appear at all. That may be disappointing to you but it's hardly a misinterpretation of 'the real thing'. It's like saying FNV does a bad job at portraying New Reno.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

The thing with the Fallout 3 BoS, to me, feels like Lyons and a lot of the members that stayed with him may have been radicals to begin with. That is, they though the Brotherhood was too insular and wanted to use their technology and what not for "the good of mankind". Which would be why they sent them across the country; to get them as far away as possible so as to not spread their ideals to any newer generation.

 

Being send clear across the wasteland that is future America was already basically a death sentence, and doing so without the seeming possibility to ever contact the main branch was literally the final nail in the coffin. I assume the West Coast BoS wrote them off as dead from the start, and those who became the Outcasts were either the unlucky few who got pulled along or were on the fence and later decided to stick to the "old ways" and are holding out hope that the main branch may one day take them back.

 

I know the game tries to paint it as Lyons seeming had a change of heart when they swept through The Pitt, but given the kind of horrors he would have seen on the West Coast to begin with, I have a hard time buying that it was just the Trogs that changed him.

 

Unless my memory of the lore is all fucked up, anyway.

[ChancellorKremlin]

Honestly, CK, you keep criticizing FO3's 'interpretation' of the BoS while FO3 doesn't have THE BoS at all. It's a rogue chapter, and the BoS as you know it doesn't appear at all. That may be disappointing to you but it's hardly a misinterpretation of 'the real thing'. It's like saying FNV does a bad job at portraying New Reno.

 

That's because I can see the writing on the wall. I'm just not a fan of these simplistic, derivative, watered down factions. And knowing Bethesda, that's exactly the factions they'll preserve in future titles. 

 

If that's how it's going to look, and I'll wager a cold one it is, the least I'd ask for is a better explanation of how they got there to start with.

[A.J.]

As for the rest, oh please! The BoS as interpreted by Bethesda is just another sympton of their complete lack of imagination when it comes to the franchise. I agree, change is good, new factions are good, a new story is good. They took nearly EVERYTHING from Fallout 2 and recycled it, and made it worse. Main plot about crazy enclave wanting to kill everyone off? Check. BoS? Check. Mutants? Check. Raiders (heavily watered down) - check. Basically, they had to make a bland, typical and derivative "good vs evil" story, and what better people to fill the boots of the knights in shining armor than the BoS, right? It was watered down garbage. 

 

 

But ... they did it in first person 3D!!! That's why I can play FO3 and NV and not the first 2 chapters! (shame on me!!! )

So... as Three Dogs could say... "it's a win-win" !

[jxm]

 

Honestly, CK, you keep criticizing FO3's 'interpretation' of the BoS while FO3 doesn't have THE BoS at all. It's a rogue chapter, and the BoS as you know it doesn't appear at all. That may be disappointing to you but it's hardly a misinterpretation of 'the real thing'. It's like saying FNV does a bad job at portraying New Reno.

 

That's because I can see the writing on the wall. I'm just not a fan of these simplistic, derivative, watered down factions. And knowing Bethesda, that's exactly the factions they'll preserve in future titles. 

 

If that's how it's going to look, and I'll wager a cold one it is, the least I'd ask for is a better explanation of how they got there to start with.

 

 

Well, I personally cannot agree. The truly boring and forseeable "adaption" of the Capital-Brotherhood could have easily been a tyrannical Brotherhood that enslaves the populace due to their powerful ancient technology. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the future Fallout -titles were set in the Californias again, with exactly such a premise: The dying BoS trying to topple the NCR ... Which indeed might be quite an interesting storyline...better than the boring Enclave-stuff in FO3 at least

 

Oh, and I surely don't want to piss you off but: Welcome to the 21 century of gaming In Fallout 2 we may have had easily a brothel, prostitution, porn-studios, Super-Mutant sex...but I am realistic enough that with today's budgets and scales of games ... we need mods to add adult stuff and the "rough edges". Mainstream, yeah...but people programming that stuff need to feed their family as well, so sales are important. And hey look, Bethesda has created a Fallout where dedicated people can add Mutant-sex, Beastiality, Slavery and what not...so its not all bad from them.

 

But the Doctor has it right: Complaining about the FO3 BoS doesn't lead anywhere, because it is not THE BoS. Oh, any by the way, I think the inspiration wasn't even by bethesda itself for this change. In fact, this whole "rogue and native" BoS was already used in the strategy-game BoS...which was ... oh well, okay...in a way   But not canon...

 

[ChancellorKremlin]

But ... they did it in first person 3D!!! That's why I can play FO3 and NV and not the first 2 chapters! (shame on me!!! )

So... as Three Dogs could say... "it's a win-win" !

 

Yes, and you're right to be ashamed lol.

 

I can't wait till FO4 comes out on the Occulus Rift. That way, I can fully immerse and surround myself - in mediocrity! 

 

Well, I personally cannot agree. The truly boring and forseeable "adaption" of the Capital-Brotherhood could have easily been a tyrannical Brotherhood that enslaves the populace due to their powerful ancient technology. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the future Fallout -titles were set in the Californias again, with exactly such a premise: The dying BoS trying to topple the NCR ... Which indeed might be quite an interesting storyline...better than the boring Enclave-stuff in FO3 at least

 

Oh, and I surely don't want to piss you off but: Welcome to the 21 century of gaming In Fallout 2 we may have had easily a brothel, prostitution, porn-studios, Super-Mutant sex...but I am realistic enough that with today's budgets and scales of games ... we need mods to add adult stuff and the "rough edges". Mainstream, yeah...but people programming that stuff need to feed their family as well, so sales are important. And hey look, Bethesda has created a Fallout where dedicated people can add Mutant-sex, Beastiality, Slavery and what not...so its not all bad from them.

 

But the Doctor has it right: Complaining about the FO3 BoS doesn't lead anywhere, because it is not THE BoS. Oh, any by the way, I think the inspiration wasn't even by bethesda itself for this change. In fact, this whole "rogue and native" BoS was already used in the strategy-game BoS...which was ... oh well, okay...in a way   But not canon...

 

I heartily disagree, also 

 

Nah, I just can't see the BoS portrayed that way. They have no inherent will to enslave anyone, nor do they have genocidal tendencies. I think it is far more feasible they become NCR allies, or a sort of NCR "police" allowed to act with some independent oversight, taking on cases they think are of extreme importance. It would be in line with their "alliance" with the NCR if you decide to help the two out in FNV. 

 

To really illustrate my point, I actually loved the BoS in Tactics. I actually really enjoyed tactics. It made perfect sense. I was really saddened it wasn't made into cannon. You know why? Because the BoS there "evolved", in the right direction, I might add - but did they become a force of good and knights in shining armour? Nope. You basically bullied and coerced tribes to join your case for "protection", basically replacing the raiders that terrorised them before you. 

 

Yes, your eventual goal is to eliminate an existential threat to humanity, but that doesn't make you a cardboard cut out good guy. THAT was a really good portrayal of a "good" splinter BoS cell. That I could buy. It had grit in it, it had shades of grey, you had to make tough choices about how you wanted your BoS to look. But FO3's BoS are just too silly. There's not an ounce of ambiguity to them. Even FNVs "NCR", arguably the game's "good guys", have so many problems with them it makes siding with them relatively problematic.

 

As for "21st century" gaming. I don't know about that - TW2 has sold over 6 million copies and that's a game that really doesn't shirk away from sex and nudity, and GTA V - a game where you can have sex with prostitutes and then beat them to death with a bat - made over $1 billion in revenue within its first 3 day of sales.

 

If anything, we're seeing a return to adult themes in games, and FNV didn't disappoint in that regard, either. Besides, I'm not blaming Bethesda for not including sex in droves into their games, merely bad writing.

[DoctaSax]

So, basically, the BoS are allowed to change on the whole, but a splinter cell, when faced with the hotzone that is the Capital Wasteland, can't possibly decide to be the good guys in a conflict that doesn't allow anyone to sit on the fence? FNV's war is just a conflict of interest over resources, FO3's war is about humans surviving there, so yeah, a more clear-cut good v evil depiction is perfectly acceptable to me within the context of FO3. And that's the problem I have with most criticism against FO3 from FO1/2 fans (well, except lamplight and the water thing): the changes aren't seen in the context of FO3. The Capital Wasteland is several thousand miles away from the west coast, and the story takes place a hundred years after FO1, so things are bound to be different.

[ChancellorKremlin]

And that's the problem I have with most criticism against FO3 from FO1/2 fans (well, except lamplight and the water thing): the changes aren't seen in the context of FO3. The Capital Wasteland is several thousand miles away from the west coast, and the story takes place a hundred years after FO1, so things are bound to be different.

Maybe it's because I have so many problems with the Capital Wasteland as a setting. I don't know, just something about their total u-turn doesn't rub me the right way. I'm not saying it's not possible, or not feasible, given the different circumstances of FO3 and its setting, just that to me it makes a lot less sense than how the BoS are or have been potrayed elsewhere. To me, they are the weaker link in the storytelling chain, even if their direction represents the best possible survival option for the faction as a whole.

 

To me its a case of "a good story told badly", maybe.

[jxm]

Maybe it's because I have so many problems with the Capital Wasteland as a setting. I don't know, just something about their total u-turn doesn't rub me the right way.

 

 

Uh, I for once was glad that they changed the setting a bit...California again? Well, consdiring how mad some fans already gor with Bethesdas approach...now imagine this in the "holy" settings of Fallout 1 + 2 ... Bethesda is actually far more clever it seems than some dare to give them credit. The Capital wasteland allowed them to tell THEIR game's story, rather then dwelling too much in the past, and probably fucking things up...

 

And I better never tell you about my ideas about Fallout: London then ... sweet singing sixties .. with mutants!

[ChancellorKremlin]

Uh, I for once was glad that they changed the setting a bit...California again? Well, consdiring how mad some fans already gor with Bethesdas approach...now imagine this in the "holy" settings of Fallout 1 + 2 ... Bethesda is actually far more clever it seems than some dare to give them credit. The Capital wasteland allowed them to tell THEIR game's story, rather then dwelling too much in the past, and probably fucking things up...

 

And I better never tell you about my ideas about Fallout: London then ... sweet singing sixties .. with mutants!

No, I don't mean that, I mean that setting's internal consistency and verisimilitude. Nothing in it made sense for me. In fact, wouldn't you have preferred it if they had made the Capital Wasteland their setting, and to go with it, added their own new content, factions and styoryline, and just gave nods here and there to the West Coast, rather than basically re-doing the whole thing again in a different place? I know I would.

 

For the record, I would actually really like a Fallout set in Europe. But again, if it happened, I wouldn't even want to see a mention of any of the other fallout games. I'd want it to be totally original and innovative. FO3 had the chance to be that game, but their recycling just didn't cut it for me.

[KainsChylde]

To really illustrate my point, I actually loved the BoS in Tactics. I actually really enjoyed tactics. It made perfect sense. I was really saddened it wasn't made into cannon. You know why? Because the BoS there "evolved", in the right direction, I might add - but did they become a force of good and knights in shining armour? Nope. You basically bullied and coerced tribes to join your case for "protection", basically replacing the raiders that terrorised them before you.

 

Umm, Tactics IS canon. The only game in the series that isn't canon is the console nightmare, Brotherhood of Steel.

[ChancellorKremlin]

Umm, Tactics IS canon. The only game in the series that isn't canon is the console nightmare, Brotherhood of Steel.

According to the wikia it's "semi-canon". I can't remember what exactly they made into canon and what didn't make the cut, but I'd love to revist the midwestern Brotherhood. At least my version of it...

[DoctaSax]

No, I don't mean that, I mean that setting's internal consistency and verisimilitude. Nothing in it made sense for me. In fact, wouldn't you have preferred it if they had made the Capital Wasteland their setting, and to go with it, added their own new content, factions and styoryline, and just gave nods here and there to the West Coast, rather than basically re-doing the whole thing again in a different place? I know I would.

I'm sure someone might've said it ain't really fallout without vaults, supermutants run amock, the vestiges of shady government organizations, and a bunch of guys with power armor and plasma rifles.