Kazyn Posted May 2, 2017 Author Posted May 2, 2017 @ Kazyn This is the bit where I really don't understand what you intend this mod to do: 'As for the carry-off timer and such, I may be able to tweak that some to be a bit more engaging than it currently is, but remember that I said that combat entanglement wasn't necessarily intended to lead into the capture scenario but it's there in case you're for some reason not escaping.' Without meaning to be at all unkind or ungrateful in any way because, as I have made clear elsewhere, I couldn't mod a dead cat , the way I see it is like this. What is the point of including the mod in my load order if the capture mechanic is too easy to beat, and there is then virtually no risk at all of my PC being dragged off from the main game's quests, and having those disrupted while I have then to take the time and trouble to escape from the predator, and get out of it's lair? That was what I liked about the first version. You didn't know where you would end up or where you would come back out, you didn't know where your gear was going to be, or what you would then have to do to fight your way back to it. It was really unpredictable, and often very hard work Just having my PC stuck in a sack and wiggling her toes until I press the right keys fast enough, so that I can then pop out near where I started, no matter how good the mechanics of that process may be, hasn't quite got the same frisson of risk, excitement and uncertainty about it insofar as that adds a real edge to the gameplay. I hope that's taken as constructively, and with the same good humour, when it arrives on your monitor as it had when it left my keyboard here! I've been kicking around some ideas and am beginning to arrive at a conclusion. The reason for my intent was not to cause instability issues between combat and captured entanglement. It was a problem before. With how smoothly the mod appears to be working right now, though (for me), I left some ends open that I would easily be able to expand upon. As for escape being too easy, are you putting yourself up against a single spider? Are you running on the lowest difficulty settings? Are you a high-level PC? A level 1 PC with the default settings getting caught by a Giant Frostbite Spider (ID: 23aab, which is level 14) isn't going to get out of the webbing any time soon. However, escaping from the little guys, yeah, that's easy because.... they're little. I almost took away their ability to entangle. Putting everything I just said aside, the way I went about this update was to first kinda redo how things work, see how people like it, and then begin introducing more mechanics based on what I have so far. So! Currently, the mod tries to be convenient and captures you in one place. If you leave the cave, the mod tries to put you back at where you last left off before you were taken away so you can get back to adventuring on your merry way. I do not know if I intend to change this just yet. Using vanilla locations and being transported there was one thing, but it also meant editting a vanilla cell, which I highly want to avoid. However, I have ideas for changing this up some, so stay tuned. Next, the mod currently applies a stripped-down version of the captured entanglement. Little to no effort is actually needed right now to go about escaping as it works entirely on its own with a difficult-enough challenge available should the settings be set to such. It was intentionally left this way so that it could remain open-ended enough for me to add additional things to once I was satisfied enough with it working. With that said: Again: stay tuned... I have plans. So some questions I asked myself for combat entanglement and am now asking everyone here using 0.30: 1.Are you being successfully entangled in combat from spit? 2.Does your character animate appropriately when this happens? 3.Are you able to escape from the entanglement? 4.Does your character return to a controllable state after they get back up on their feet after escaping? If you can answer yes to all four of the questions above, then it's working as intended and I can proceed with the next step in my plan. Stay tuned... I have "good" things planned here. Hey Kazyn, I upgraded to the 0.30 version of the mod and I seem to be having problems with the NPC entanglement status. Whenever they get hit with a spider spit attack.. you can see the cocoon equipment on them but they don't go into the struggle animation. Does it have something to do with the ZaZanimation pack? Any help would be appreciated! That's a bug I've reproduced on my end as well. That will definitely be fixed soon. The good news is that the NPC is helpless, is just doesn't animate that way. Hey Kazyn, I upgraded to the 0.30 version of the mod and I seem to be having problems with the NPC entanglement status. Whenever they get hit with a spider spit attack.. you can see the cocoon equipment on them but they don't go into the struggle animation. Does it have something to do with the ZaZanimation pack? Any help would be appreciated! In case it helps (and I'm using t'ara's ZAP 622.1) I did have some odd glitches after installing 0.3 (and to be fair, one or two other mods too) so I did a re-run of FNIS, and that seems to have helped. Might be worth a try, but I can't be sure if that will do much for you tho', as 0.3 doesn't seem to have any mod specific animations of its own, as far as I can see I haven't used the new ZAP - still running on 611. I don't know how I feel about using that new one yet, considering it's from a different author. Yes, this mod pulls animations from the ZAP and has none of its own. First of all thanks a lot for updating this mod!! I've been looking forwards to it!. As of the mod itself I am running into a weird issue. Once hit by the entangle the spider keeps attacking me (which is intended) but whenever she hits me with the paralyze, I get paralyzed, if the paralyze spell runs out, I'll just stand up (still bound) and wont stay on the floor bound.... in fact I can move with the web around me hehe. Yeah, I realized not five minutes ago when I typed the long post above that I forgot to make it so paralysis can't occur when entangled. I made it so you can't get entangled while paralyzed but not the other way around. Fix will be coming soon.
Kazyn Posted May 2, 2017 Author Posted May 2, 2017 Here's a small update with a couple of fixes (yes, two): V. 0.30a Fixes -Victims can no longer be paralyzed while entangled in combat. -NPCs should now play the correct animation when entangled in combat.
Guest Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 Well it works very well for my and doesn't seem to conflict much with defeat nice job!! You're one of the lucky few - or you just haven't run into any problems yet XD haha xD well i have defeat set up completely different than most people some people allow defeat to take place then after death alternative then will activate I have defeat going straight through death alternative. Again I really like this mod just getting entangled from the spit was awesome very immersive I was able to break free and noticed I still had an overlay of webs on me it was soo cool. I am glad you're not doing anything sex related I actually find it pretty immersive I have yet to go through alll scenarios but so far so good
DonQuiWho Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 @ Kazyn Thank you for such a comprehensive reply. Your effort is really appreciated I take on board everything you say, especially about getting the base stable, and I'll be more than happy to see whatever you manage to do next. FWIW, my tests were done with a level 3 PC, fighting the 3 Frostbites you encounter on the larger of the islands just north of Morvath's Lair, to the NE of Morthal And I tried that using both atreyatan's DA methodology, and the conventional one too It's late here, and tomorrow is busy, but I'll try out 0.30a asap Thanks again
Kazyn Posted May 3, 2017 Author Posted May 3, 2017 I take on board everything you say, especially about getting the base stable, and I'll be more than happy to see whatever you manage to do next. Yeah, there's your problem, those spiders aren't going to be tough to get away from. Try something more like this in the console: player.placeatme 23aab 3 Your experience should differ quite a bit...
Guest Ediros Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 version .30a 1.Are you being successfully entangled in combat from spit? -Well, kind off. I mean the script works properly. You get entagled, but it is a bit odd that it gives so much web from a single shoot. 2.Does your character animate appropriately when this happens? -My character wiggles, she stays on the ground, her arms behind her back. So I suppose yes. 3.Are you able to escape from the entanglement? -Yes, the small spiders are not much of a threat in that case. 4.Does your character return to a controllable state after they get back up on their feet after escaping? -Also yes. I beat up all the spiders after escaping from the spit attack. PS: After you get out of spit attack, there used to be strands of web on you. However, in this version, I have not seen it happen yet. Does not seem to work. PPS: Would it be possible to remove the blur when you gen entangled? It kind of makes me a bit dizzy.
Kazyn Posted May 3, 2017 Author Posted May 3, 2017 version .30a 1.Are you being successfully entangled in combat from spit? -Well, kind off. I mean the script works properly. You get entagled, but it is a bit odd that it gives so much web from a single shoot. Script functionality was what I was after here. Don't worry about the details of the visuals just yet. 2.Does your character animate appropriately when this happens? -My character wiggles, she stays on the ground, her arms behind her back. So I suppose yes. Working as intended, then. That's good. 3.Are you able to escape from the entanglement? -Yes, the small spiders are not much of a threat in that case. 4.Does your character return to a controllable state after they get back up on their feet after escaping? -Also yes. I beat up all the spiders after escaping from the spit attack. PS: After you get out of spit attack, there used to be strands of web on you. However, in this version, I have not seen it happen yet. Does not seem to work. The webFX on the character shows up for me. I have noticed, however (and others feel free to correct me here), that if FX's displaying on characters can and will overwrite one another. So if an FX has priority over the web strands, you might not see them as a result. PPS: Would it be possible to remove the blur when you gen entangled? It kind of makes me a bit dizzy. The blur is actually a result from the poison effect from the vanilla game. Removing that short poison effect disables the spit from ever being used by the spiders for reasons I can't seem to determine.
Amrovich Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 I think the struggle bar sometimes reaches above 100% and then you can't know if you are struggling in the right direction or not. Also another thing .... after I teleported to cave there was no spiders there and after I escaped ..... I went to fight spiders again and got caught in web but teleporting to cave never happened again ..... any idea what might have gone wrong
DonQuiWho Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 @ Kazyn 0.3a seems fine, thanks. And you are so right about those big big bad bad spiders! Couple of other things of note 1 - WASD struggle seems to be bidirectional before transport to the lair, but was apparently clockwise only once there. One could get RSI, ie Repetitive Sequencing Injury.... 2 - re-read the Hungry Spider text and just realised that yesterday my PC was re-wrapped 3 times, but not eaten. Think they escaped then, but does the meal deal kick in on the next spider visit, ie the 4th visit? 3 - I still have to save/reload on transport to the lair to avoid a CTD. As I said, can live with that, but as I have the 'wrapping scene' set to OFF, might that affect anything camera wise? 4 - Also noticed what Amrovich said. Given that it's been a limited number of lair escapes and exits, is that just by chance, or are lurking spiders still to come in future versions? I think the struggle bar sometimes reaches above 100% and then you can't know if you are struggling in the right direction or not. Also another thing .... after I teleported to cave there was no spiders there and after I escaped ..... I went to fight spiders again and got caught in web but teleporting to cave never happened again ..... any idea what might have gone wrong
Kazyn Posted May 4, 2017 Author Posted May 4, 2017 1 - Uh... seems to be clockwise over here. Did you upgrade from 0.10? If so, it's possible the old script may be baked into your game. You may have to clean save if that's the case. I can't be certain though as I haven't been using 0.10 for quite some time now. 2 - I'll have to see, but I'm not going to test that very much. I may actually drop the feeding (seeing as there's no feeding animation - all I can do is fade it to black) to keep along the theme of continuous narrative (rather than die/reload). 3 - I really haven't the slightest as to what's causing your CTD's. Nothing I do seems to cause anything that drastic. I hate to be that guy, but it may have something to do with your load order or set up. 4 - No spiders have been set up yet apart from the captor spider in the cave. Getting the game to delete and respawn spiders seems a bit iffy given Skyrim's whimsical engine. Spawning new spiders is easy, but it causes save bloat. This is a bit lower on my list of priorities for a bit.
DonQuiWho Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 1 - Uh... seems to be clockwise over here. Did you upgrade from 0.10? If so, it's possible the old script may be baked into your game. You may have to clean save if that's the case. I can't be certain though as I haven't been using 0.10 for quite some time now. Straight 0.3 install with 0.3a over the top of that. I hate to be that guy, but to quote the mod description, (which I thought, in conjunction with the penalty provision, meant that it went both ways, and you got a penalty on both missing a key in the sequence and when the sequence randomly reversed - assumptions that could be completely wrong... ) 'Escape If entangled, the forward, left, right and back keys may be pressed in clockwise (A->W->D->S by default) or counter-clockwise (A->S->D->W by default) to struggle against the web. A meter will display below the compass indicating progress toward escaping. Once the meter has been completely emptied, the victim successfully escapes.' 2 - I'll have to see, but I'm not going to test that very much. I may actually drop the feeding (seeing as there's no feeding animation - all I can do is fade it to black) to keep along the theme of continuous narrative (rather than die/reload). Noted. Not an issue really 3 - I really haven't the slightest as to what's causing your CTD's. Nothing I do seems to cause anything that drastic. I hate to be that guy, but it may have something to do with your load order or set up. Almost undoubtedly.. 4 - No spiders have been set up yet apart from the captor spider in the cave. Getting the game to delete and respawn spiders seems a bit iffy given Skyrim's whimsical engine. Spawning new spiders is easy, but it causes save bloat. This is a bit lower on my list of priorities for a bit. Awwww..... As ever, thanks for being both so responsive, and comprehensive. It's a credit to you
Kazyn Posted May 5, 2017 Author Posted May 5, 2017 I think the struggle bar sometimes reaches above 100% and then you can't know if you are struggling in the right direction or not. Reproduced. I thought I saw to this but apparently I didn't. Fix will be implemented in next update.
Kazyn Posted May 5, 2017 Author Posted May 5, 2017 This is an attempt to move on to the next phase of development so here goes - Expect a bumpy ride. 0.30a is still available if you decide to hang back. Version 0.31 Core Features -The paralysis effect from spider bites has been removed entirely. -The damage dealt by spider poison has been reduced significantly. -The duration of the spider poison has been drastically reduced. -Spider bites now entangle the victim -Entanglement +When entanglement occurs, the same amount of webbing is applied as before, but the meter only fills partially, indicating that even MORE web can be applied. This will appear to fill less for smaller spiders because a new minimum maximum web strength has been put in place so that small spiders who apply little web can drag victims off without applying anywhere near as much web as should be reasonably needed. +While entangled, the victim takes significantly less damage. +Attacks received by spiders apply more web to the victim. +As layers of webbing are applied to the victim, struggle becomes more difficult, and less progress is made per correct input. This is indicated by the amount of webbing visually present on the victim. +If enough webbing is applied (the meter is filled), the victim will begin to lose consciousness. +If the victim can struggle enough to get the meter less than maximum before consciousness is lost, the struggle can continue (but it is higlhy unlikely unless you're very lucky). +If the victim fails to get the meter below its displayed maximum, the victim loses consciousness and is dragged off to the spider's lair, where the lair quest can begin. +The follower can help remove webbing from the player victim if the spider is dead and they're no longer in combat. Minor Changes -The entangling scene now only plays when it's enabled in the MCM AND if the victim is defeated through Death Alternative. There's no point in being unwrapped and rewrapped again. Death alternative is still optional. MCM Changes -The modifier to change the amount of webbing applied per strike from spiders during combat entanglement is now a configurable setting. Fixes -The strength of the cocoon can no longer go above the maximum allowed strength (only in the lair capture scenario) -The "Strip gear" option in MCM was incorrectly removing the cocoon "equip" -Removed some old records that are no longer being used. -Removed old scripts that are no longer being used. Additional Notes -It is intended for the meter to go beyond the maximum displayed amount during combat entanglement ONLY. It should not go beyond maximum in the lair capture scenario. -The follower may sometimes not be equipped with a web mesh when taken to the spider's lair. -Combat entanglement and Death Alternative bleedouts could possibly cause some problems (mainly when an attack that entangles also damages a player to below 0HP). I tried testing this out as extensively as circumstances would allow and for the most part, my workarounds appear to be working correctly. However, this will still need further user testing.
thefakebobdole Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 So uh, this mod is a roller coaster ride. When the ride finishes I jump back on. I tested out .30 many times. The blackout timer works great, but death alternative spawns me underneath the level. Sometimes when I spawn underneath the level my HDT stretches. Other times as soon as the spider props me upside down, everything is okay. Most of the time defeat would start playing with the spiders, then after a scene Arachnophobia would whisk me away. Mostly it worked fine this way. I clumsily TES5 edited the spider webbing effect onto some skooma whore "Health Brew." This was my go to because NPCs spawn with them.... but alas they don't seem to drink them now ... The webbing effect actually shows up on the potion effects in game, which was surprising to me. Doesn't stop me though, Its comical, when I drink them I hit the ground hard. I'm going to have to test if I can add it to the frostbite poison. I haven't tested NPCs out yet, but .30a sounds like you got that covered. I'm sharing this because the webbing mechanic is my favorite thing of all of the mods. As far as clumsy TES5 goes, I'm in the process of trying to get the gag from cocoon wrap 3 as a standalone. I think I'm close but, I ran out of time. That would be a really neat going away present after the event. Anyhow, thanks for sharing and maintaining this.
Kazyn Posted May 6, 2017 Author Posted May 6, 2017 Actually three, but on top of being very busy as well as not having any real direction or idea to go with the mod, updates were very uh... scarce until I finally figured out how to go about it.
iorelsan Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 Wow Kazyn, you keep outdoing yourself with these updates great work. I really like the design philosophy behind 0.31, now spiders are less deadly but focus more on the wrapping part. It can create some really cool narratives like "crap I messed up and now I am entangled, cool my follower can help out while I try to get out.... oh crap she got entangled too!! I gotta hurry up" kind of situations. Overall looks more stable (tested about 10 times) and seems I can 100% reliably get on the cave and get entangled. Sadly seems that DA is causing some wonkiness, because on the previous patch more often than not I would end up under the floor of the cave or not entangled at all. Admittedly I believe that's a DA issue overall, the moment you get knocked out it gets very script intensive, which can cause Skyrim to do unpredictable stuff... hopefully it will get updated one day. Though I am glad you made DA optional =). As of bugs I just found one. I was testing at the big spider on bleaks fall temple and sometimes (about half of the time) when both myself and my follower are wrapped up a message on the top appears and says that my follower is helping me to get out.... which I assume is incorrect, I guess the script thinks that we are out of combat. Maybe add a conditional there so the follower cant help unless she's totally free? Thanks a lot for the continued support Kazyn, once more I am a huge fan of this mod =) Edit: Well seems I just found another bug, this was happening on previous versions too. When I am wrapped up I start to struggle, but then the spider does its usual routine to check on its food. I try kicking it, it wraps me up, but after that she wont show around again.
Kazyn Posted May 6, 2017 Author Posted May 6, 2017 Overall looks more stable (tested about 10 times) and seems I can 100% reliably get on the cave and get entangled. Sadly seems that DA is causing some wonkiness, because on the previous patch more often than not I would end up under the floor of the cave or not entangled at all. Admittedly I believe that's a DA issue overall, the moment you get knocked out it gets very script intensive, which can cause Skyrim to do unpredictable stuff... hopefully it will get updated one day. Though I am glad you made DA optional =) Hmm, I haven't run into this but I wouldn't put it past it still happening (and it might not be DA's fault either). Though reports of falling through the floor have been ... reported. I cannot reproduce that, but it could have something to do with the way people's computers are loaded when papyrus fires - I don't know for sure. As of bugs I just found one. I was testing at the big spider on bleaks fall temple and sometimes (about half of the time) when both myself and my follower are wrapped up a message on the top appears and says that my follower is helping me to get out.... which I assume is incorrect, I guess the script thinks that we are out of combat. Maybe add a conditional there so the follower cant help unless she's totally free? I may have forgotten to add that condition. I'll need to have a look. I remember seeing that happen once and was like.... dangit. Thanks a lot for the continued support Kazyn, once more I am a huge fan of this mod =) Edit: Well seems I just found another bug, this was happening on previous versions too. When I am wrapped up I start to struggle, but then the spider does its usual routine to check on its food. I try kicking it, it wraps me up, but after that she wont show around again. Kicking needs some looking at. Workaround for now is: Don't use it and if you're near escaping, struggle quickly until you can get free and then HIDE (or fight if you're powerful enough).
iorelsan Posted May 7, 2017 Posted May 7, 2017 Thanks for the comprehensive reply. For what is worth, the falling through the floor bug hasnt happened to me once since 0.31. So as a blind guess I am think its either DA or the paralysis, or a combination of both.
DonQuiWho Posted May 7, 2017 Posted May 7, 2017 Hi Kazyn Had a try now with 0.31. Not too much time, or too many runs through, but hopefully enough to give some useful feedback - there are a few things to ask/mention that I hope might help 1 - Feels more stable in many respects, which is good! 2 - Is there supposed to be visible webbing before the PC is dragged off? I have used the Spiders outside Morthal again (the little ones for my lvl 3 PC) and the PC can be taken down by a spit attack, the PC struggles in what looks like a cocooned animation, but there is no visible webbing. Looked at the notes again and tried it both with and without the 'strip equipment' box checked and no webbing visible in either case. This also happens if I try a barefist fight with the spiders. The PC goes down on being bitten and taken off when the bar fills, but no webbing is visible in the interim. Bottom line query really is - Is there supposed to be, or have I just misunderstood what is supposed to happen 3 - I then get transported to Frostbite Reprieve. I am still getting a follower taken there with the PC. I checked the DA settings and all three were 'out of range', all were in an AFT 'wait' state, but the last active one got zoomed in, even though about 500 metres off on Morthal Bridge. Crazy days.... but this is Skyrim 4 - In the reprieve, both the PC and follower are nicely wrapped up, but only the follower seems to have the moves. Is this intended, or is she just more scared than the PC? 5 - I don't CTD so quickly on entering the Reprieve. Just a bit later... LOL. More seriously, though, the camera does seem to move OK now, and after a save / reload seems to work pretty flawlessly. But the last time I got transported there, and CTD'd before I remembered to do a save, I noticed that my health bar seemed to fill up before the transfer, the PC got taken to the Reprieve and the follower whooshed in too. The spider then did the wrap up thing but just before everything CTD'd, I got a message up saying 'Your follower helps you to escape from the webbing' (or something very close to that) Is that supposed to be happening in this version? If not, might that explain a little bit of instability on transfer? EDIT: Just looked upstream and saw iorelsan has pointed this out already. As someone famous said, 'Dangit!' I suppose at least this shows it's reproducible LMAO Anyway, hope that helps I'd welcome an answer on 2 most of all, as I'm checking something else out too, and I'm not sure if that might be a part of the issue or not, so TIA for any help you can provide
Kazyn Posted May 7, 2017 Author Posted May 7, 2017 Thanks for the comprehensive reply. For what is worth, the falling through the floor bug hasnt happened to me once since 0.31. So as a blind guess I am think its either DA or the paralysis, or a combination of both. Oh I misunderstood you. I thought you said you experienced falling through the floor in 0.31. But yes, I think you're right in that regard, either way.
Kazyn Posted May 7, 2017 Author Posted May 7, 2017 Hi Kazyn Had a try now with 0.31. Not too much time, or too many runs through, but hopefully enough to give some useful feedback - there are a few things to ask/mention that I hope might help 1 - Feels more stable in many respects, which is good! 2 - Is there supposed to be visible webbing before the PC is dragged off? I have used the Spiders outside Morthal again (the little ones for my lvl 3 PC) and the PC can be taken down by a spit attack, the PC struggles in what looks like a cocooned animation, but there is no visible webbing. Looked at the notes again and tried it both with and without the 'strip equipment' box checked and no webbing visible in either case. This also happens if I try a barefist fight with the spiders. The PC goes down on being bitten and taken off when the bar fills, but no webbing is visible in the interim. Bottom line query really is - Is there supposed to be, or have I just misunderstood what is supposed to happen If you're hit by spit or bitten, web should show up. Stripping of equipment only affects whether or not you're stripped after being dragged to the cave. I'd like some additional details though: 1) What kind of spiders are you fighting, as in, are they normal or the snowy type? 2) What size of spider are they? (Small, medium or large?) 3) Are you getting bitten, spat on, or both? 4) What ZaZ Animation Pack are you using again? (I'm using 611, still) Right now it sounds like you could be experiencing a problem with your ZaZ installation but I can't be sure. 3 - I then get transported to Frostbite Reprieve. I am still getting a follower taken there with the PC. I checked the DA settings and all three were 'out of range', all were in an AFT 'wait' state, but the last active one got zoomed in, even though about 500 metres off on Morthal Bridge. Crazy days.... but this is Skyrim I can't speak for AFT, unfortunately. I only run with the vanilla follower system. Follower seems to behave on my end. That said, I cannot reproduce your issue at this time. However, additional follower support is something on my list of to-dos, but it's not next in line. 4 - In the reprieve, both the PC and follower are nicely wrapped up, but only the follower seems to have the moves. Is this intended, or is she just more scared than the PC? You won't move until you start struggling. The follower just struggles. 5 - I don't CTD so quickly on entering the Reprieve. Just a bit later... LOL. More seriously, though, the camera does seem to move OK now, and after a save / reload seems to work pretty flawlessly. But the last time I got transported there, and CTD'd before I remembered to do a save, I noticed that my health bar seemed to fill up before the transfer, the PC got taken to the Reprieve and the follower whooshed in too. The spider then did the wrap up thing but just before everything CTD'd, I got a message up saying 'Your follower helps you to escape from the webbing' (or something very close to that) Is that supposed to be happening in this version? If not, might that explain a little bit of instability on transfer? CTDs aren't something I can reproduce, though you might be able to look through your papyrus logs and see if something's not playing nice. This obviously isn't guaranteed but it's worth a shot. As for the followers helping you to escape even when they're webbed, that's a bug I've recognized and will be working on.
Ghrolath(blabla77777) Posted May 7, 2017 Posted May 7, 2017 I love that entanglement is back! However, when "consciousness fades" my screen goes black, and I just get stuck listening to the spider making noise forever. I never actually get transported to the cave. Edit: I may have borked the installation the first time :X. Upon reinstalling it, I still run into a few issues however. 1. There seem to be gaps in the cocooning process: The spiders spit webbing, encasing my pc, and start beating on me/spraying more silk. I go from partially wrapped, to completely unwrapped, back to mostly wrapped, and unwrapped again. 2. After completing the cocoon, there seems to be an issue 75% of the time. What usually happens is that I get the "losing consciousness" message, and my screen goes dark. Afterwards, my screen cuts back to where i was attacked, and I am unwrapped but still in the cocoon animation (with the spider beating me up). Occasionally this will progress back to the end(fully cocooned) again, and properly put me on the cave. 3. Im not sure if this is by design, but after being completely cocooned and dragged back to the cave, the first thing I see is my pc partially cocooned again. She is then put in the web fully cocooned. It seems a little silly to package her up nice and tight only to unwrap her and rewrap her again lol. I want to add that I am super excited to see the mod being updated again, and I hope you dont see my issues as complaints, as I absolutely adore this mod and have a huge amount of respect for you for doing it! It continues to be the best spider peril I have seen in a game, and has inspired me to get into modding.
DonQuiWho Posted May 7, 2017 Posted May 7, 2017 @ Kazyn Hope some of this helps Hi Kazyn Had a try now with 0.31. Not too much time, or too many runs through, but hopefully enough to give some useful feedback - there are a few things to ask/mention that I hope might help 1 - Feels more stable in many respects, which is good! 2 - Is there supposed to be visible webbing before the PC is dragged off? I have used the Spiders outside Morthal again (the little ones for my lvl 3 PC) and the PC can be taken down by a spit attack, the PC struggles in what looks like a cocooned animation, but there is no visible webbing. Looked at the notes again and tried it both with and without the 'strip equipment' box checked and no webbing visible in either case. This also happens if I try a barefist fight with the spiders. The PC goes down on being bitten and taken off when the bar fills, but no webbing is visible in the interim. Bottom line query really is - Is there supposed to be, or have I just misunderstood what is supposed to happen If you're hit by spit or bitten, web should show up. Stripping of equipment only affects whether or not you're stripped after being dragged to the cave. I'd like some additional details though: 1) What kind of spiders are you fighting, as in, are they normal or the snowy type? 2) What size of spider are they? (Small, medium or large?) 3) Are you getting bitten, spat on, or both? 4) What ZaZ Animation Pack are you using again? (I'm using 611, still) Right now it sounds like you could be experiencing a problem with your ZaZ installation but I can't be sure. Tried again, same game, and the spiders cocooned the PC nicely. Two things might be differences that caused this. a - The last time, the PC might have been equipped with a halo from Shout like a Virgin and I definitely unequipped it for this test. b - The spiders' 'spit' being lobbed at the PC last time all seemed greenish, no white stuff. This time white stuff was fired over the water and the PC went down cocooned straight away. Spiders then came in to attack OK and after a while dragged PC away. So I guess it's probably OK (I tested the Zaz implementation at the same gamepoint start with 0.3 and the cocoons were OK there too 3 - I then get transported to Frostbite Reprieve. I am still getting a follower taken there with the PC. I checked the DA settings and all three were 'out of range', all were in an AFT 'wait' state, but the last active one got zoomed in, even though about 500 metres off on Morthal Bridge. Crazy days.... but this is Skyrim I can't speak for AFT, unfortunately. I only run with the vanilla follower system. Follower seems to behave on my end. That said, I cannot reproduce your issue at this time. However, additional follower support is something on my list of to-dos, but it's not next in line. Sure! 4 - In the reprieve, both the PC and follower are nicely wrapped up, but only the follower seems to have the moves. Is this intended, or is she just more scared than the PC? You won't move until you start struggling. The follower just struggles. Yep, now seen that OK Hanging cocoon and lying down ones were both OK too 5 - I don't CTD so quickly on entering the Reprieve. Just a bit later... LOL. More seriously, though, the camera does seem to move OK now, and after a save / reload seems to work pretty flawlessly. But the last time I got transported there, and CTD'd before I remembered to do a save, I noticed that my health bar seemed to fill up before the transfer, the PC got taken to the Reprieve and the follower whooshed in too. The spider then did the wrap up thing but just before everything CTD'd, I got a message up saying 'Your follower helps you to escape from the webbing' (or something very close to that) Is that supposed to be happening in this version? If not, might that explain a little bit of instability on transfer? CTDs aren't something I can reproduce, though you might be able to look through your papyrus logs and see if something's not playing nice. This obviously isn't guaranteed but it's worth a shot. Same again this time - this excerpt shows just after t/f to Reprieve, Save, Continue (not a reload) and then CTD. I always seem get this same stack referring to your mod's code at this point (the crushhumanstuff is a well known non significant hiccough from DeadlyMutilation). Does that help at all? [05/07/2017 - 03:09:15PM] [Virgin}: Periodic Checks[05/07/2017 - 03:09:33PM] warning: Property FrostEnchantmentEffect on script DM_FreezeHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFF9) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:33PM] warning: Property luck on script DM_CutHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFF9) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:33PM] warning: Property FrostEnchantmentEffect on script DM_CutHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFF9) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:33PM] warning: Property luck on script DM_CrushHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFF9) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:33PM] warning: Property FrostEnchantmentEffect on script DM_CrushHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFF9) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:44PM] warning: Property FrostEnchantmentEffect on script DM_FreezeHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFFD) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:44PM] warning: Property luck on script DM_CutHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFFD) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:44PM] warning: Property FrostEnchantmentEffect on script DM_CutHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFFD) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:44PM] warning: Property luck on script DM_CrushHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFFD) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:44PM] warning: Property FrostEnchantmentEffect on script DM_CrushHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (4800FFFD) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:09:48PM] ERROR: Unable to call SendModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack:[None].kzy_entangleEffect.SendModEvent() - "" Line ?[None].kzy_entangleEffect.OnEffectFinish() - "kzy_entangleEffect.psc" Line 300[05/07/2017 - 03:09:48PM] ERROR: Unable to call UnregisterForUpdate - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack:[None].kzy_entangleEffect.UnregisterForUpdate() - "" Line ?[None].kzy_entangleEffect.ClearVictimStatus() - "kzy_entangleEffect.psc" Line 340[None].kzy_entangleEffect.OnEffectFinish() - "kzy_entangleEffect.psc" Line 309[05/07/2017 - 03:09:53PM] @@ CB.Tracker :OnLocationChange[05/07/2017 - 03:09:53PM] @@ CB.Tracker :OnCellLoad[05/07/2017 - 03:09:53PM] @@ CB :CellChange[05/07/2017 - 03:09:57PM] daymoyl - Recovering Start[05/07/2017 - 03:09:58PM] [Virgin}: Periodic Checks[05/07/2017 - 03:10:10PM] warning: Property FrostEnchantmentEffect on script DM_FreezeHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (0002C830) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:10:10PM] warning: Property luck on script DM_CutHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (0002C830) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:10:10PM] warning: Property FrostEnchantmentEffect on script DM_CutHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (0002C830) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:10:10PM] warning: Property luck on script DM_CrushHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (0002C830) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:10:10PM] warning: Property FrostEnchantmentEffect on script DM_CrushHuman attached to Active effect 1 on (0002C830) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[05/07/2017 - 03:10:13PM] VM is freezing...[05/07/2017 - 03:10:13PM] VM is frozen[05/07/2017 - 03:10:14PM] Saving game...[05/07/2017 - 03:10:14PM] VM is thawing...[05/07/2017 - 03:10:15PM] [Zad]: Set slot mask to [0]: 0 As for the followers helping you to escape even when they're webbed, that's a bug I've recognized and will be working on. That's good :-)
Kazyn Posted May 7, 2017 Author Posted May 7, 2017 I love that entanglement is back! However, when "consciousness fades" my screen goes black, and I just get stuck listening to the spider making noise forever. I never actually get transported to the cave. Edit: I may have borked the installation the first time :X. Upon reinstalling it, I still run into a few issues however. 1. There seem to be gaps in the cocooning process: The spiders spit webbing, encasing my pc, and start beating on me/spraying more silk. I go from partially wrapped, to completely unwrapped, back to mostly wrapped, and unwrapped again. I cannot reproduce this - What should happen is the more silk that's applied, the more webbing that appears around the victim. No webbing should come off UNTIL possibly the time comes to drag the victim off to the spider's lair, at which point the screen should be blacked out (unless you're using an ENB that prevents this) which is when a bunch of behind-the-scenes things occur. 2. After completing the cocoon, there seems to be an issue 75% of the time. What usually happens is that I get the "losing consciousness" message, and my screen goes dark. Afterwards, my screen cuts back to where i was attacked, and I am unwrapped but still in the cocoon animation (with the spider beating me up). Occasionally this will progress back to the end(fully cocooned) again, and properly put me on the cave. Unable to reproduce as well, I'm afraid. What I'm led to believe is that there's some sort of script lag occuring over there and so things aren't quite firing as they should be. Perhaps some calls are in the back of the queue waiting to make it to the front. What should happen is, once fully entangled, and you've lost consciousness, the screen should black out, and wake you up in the spider's lair hanging upside down. 3. Im not sure if this is by design, but after being completely cocooned and dragged back to the cave, the first thing I see is my pc partially cocooned again. She is then put in the web fully cocooned. It seems a little silly to package her up nice and tight only to unwrap her and rewrap her again lol. I'll look into this. The only time the victim should ever be wrapped in the lair is if they're defeated through Death Alternative and the "Show Scene" option is checked in the MCM. Being dragged to the cave because of too much webbing should just dart you to the hanging position waiting for you to start struggling. I want to add that I am super excited to see the mod being updated again, and I hope you dont see my issues as complaints, as I absolutely adore this mod and have a huge amount of respect for you for doing it! It continues to be the best spider peril I have seen in a game, and has inspired me to get into modding. Glad you're excited, but of course, while things are running quite well on my end, clearly a number of people are still having problems. I run a fairly light load of mods, however, at least, those involving scripts. The only exceptions are things like Frostfall, Campfire, iNeed (soon to be Last Seed) and Death Alternative. Occasionally I run with some SL mods, which I happen to have had running during these past few updates. @ Kazyn Hope some of this helps Tried again, same game, and the spiders cocooned the PC nicely. Two things might be differences that caused this. a - The last time, the PC might have been equipped with a halo from Shout like a Virgin and I definitely unequipped it for this test. I don't know what that mod is or what it does. b - The spiders' 'spit' being lobbed at the PC last time all seemed greenish, no white stuff. This time white stuff was fired over the water and the PC went down cocooned straight away. Spiders then came in to attack OK and after a while dragged PC away. So I guess it's probably OK (I tested the Zaz implementation at the same gamepoint start with 0.3 and the cocoons were OK there too Something's messing with your textures and meshes in the ZAZ pack it sounds like. Nothing green over here. Same again this time - this excerpt shows just after t/f to Reprieve, Save, Continue (not a reload) and then CTD. I always seem get this same stack referring to your mod's code at this point (the crushhumanstuff is a well known non significant hiccough from DeadlyMutilation). Does that help at all? Those errors are harmless. What you're seeing are calls for entangle effects that no longer exist (becuase they ended for whatever reason). That said, I'd eventually like to eliminate those errors entirely but for now, I don't believe they're causing any CTD. They have nothing to do with the spider lair - just combat entanglement.
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