Arachnophobia

[Terra848]

Uh how do i find that out? Atm, Arachnophobia is at the bottom, but i also tried placing it at the very top and used LOOT

[Terra848]

Ah nevermind i think  ihave fixed it, it is now registering on the Death Alternative menu and i just got defeated by a spider and everything seems to be working, ill keep you updated!

 

Edit: Okay! Everything worked fine except for one thing: The spider only rewrapped me once, and this is while i was still hanging, then i dropped to the floor and waited around 5 mins but he never came back, is this a bug or meant to happen?

Also i think it would make sense to add a couple of frostbite spiders into the cave, ya know, for 'security'

[Kazyn]

Well that's good. As for your spider returning, it will only return while you are struggling (e.g. entering key strokes).

 

As for extra features well, let me make sure the core mod itself is working before I begin adding anything to it.

[Terra848]

Ye i was struggling, i struggled all the way till i was about to escape, then purposely made the bar go back to full then i repeated that for a few mins but he never came back :c, also the new version seems to not be working with Content Consumer's Alternative start due to an esp rename issue, any chance you could fix this?   

 

Edit: Nevermind about the CC thing, renaming the esp myself fixed it

[Guest Ediros]

Okay, I have played this version and this look quite good.

 

However, when I wiggle out of the webbing the spider immediately attacks me, so I killed him and was stuck in the cave with no way out.

 

And maybe it is just me, but the spider constatly applies new webbing, doesn't matter how little damage there is. It is kind of broken.

[Kazyn]

There's an exit. You just have to find it. Also, unless you hold still when prompted to, the spider is highly likely to web you back up. Kicking the spider with no damage to the web is also likely to fail, resulting in more web as well.

[essedess]

I am having a lot of trouble. first I couldn't get it to stop crashing when Ii was supposed to trigger bleedout. Then I fiddeled with DA settings some and it finally worked but when it went to the blackout when I was being spooled and webbed I could only see myself and the web on me no spider no background just a blank void. Can I get the exact settings for DA from someone that makes it work right?

 

Edit: is there a way to make it stop fadeing in and out to black during the cocooning, I am not real fond of that it makes my eyes hurt.

[Guest Ediros]

Okay, I found the exit and the gameplay is quite well done.

 

However, right now there is no threat outside of giant spiders. The small ones are still a joke and I think it would be good if there were traps or other threats. Because the way I see it now, when you get decent armour and regen it becomes hard to actually be defeated by spider. 

 

I like how you have done the lair, but one big spider makes it quite easy to handle.

[iorelsan]

I am having a lot of trouble. first I couldn't get it to stop crashing when Ii was supposed to trigger bleedout. Then I fiddeled with DA settings some and it finally worked but when it went to the blackout when I was being spooled and webbed I could only see myself and the web on me no spider no background just a blank void. Can I get the exact settings for DA from someone that makes it work right?

 

Edit: is there a way to make it stop fadeing in and out to black during the cocooning, I am not real fond of that it makes my eyes hurt.

 

The problem with DA is that the moment when you get defeated it spikes a lot on the amount of scripting it needs, usually this wouldnt be a problem unless you have another memory/script mod running at the moment.

 

The common suspect is Wet and Cold, but there are others out there. Personally I had the exact same issue on an almost fresh install of Skyrim, then it came up to my mind to disable the official HD texture pack and voila! no more crashes.

[essedess]

the trigger works if I disable "vanilla bleedout", that experimental feature, but the cave had no textures I was just floating in a blank void cocooned.

[Kazyn]

Some things to try for me:

1) Enter the console command "Startquest kzy_arachnophobia" This will start the quest without any sort of DA interaction. Inform me of your results.

 

2) Enter the console command "coc kzyFrostbiteReprieve" This will teleport you to the cave without the quest starting.

 

Again, let me know what happens and we'll go from there.

[essedess]

1) Teleported to cave stripped of clothes and then spider just sits there stareing at me. But the cave loaded this time.

 

2) I was able to coc to the cave and move around it but was unable to leave through the exit.

 

3) I decided to try it again the way it is supposed to work.....this time it actually behaved when I was attacked by the 10 spiders I spawned and blackedout it did the whole cocooning and dangling me upside down just like it is supposed to. However there was a major lack of any opposition getting out of the cave. Are there supposed to be spiders in there with me? After exiting the cave I ended up right back where I was captured as is intended if i understand right.

 

Sorry if I am "no help" I don't know why it messed up before but it triggered and loaded the cave properly as I said above so I guess the problem I had before self corrected?

 

[Kazyn]

1) That's about intended, considering the normal firing conditions for the quest weren't met. You forced started the quest.

2) Shouldn't have been able to leave by normal means because the quest hadn't started, so that's normal.

3) When you leave the cave, the mod will try to put you at the entrance (or edge if you're out in the exteriors worldspace). If it cannot find a place to put you, it falls back to where you originally went down.

 

Currently, there isn't much for opposition, mainly because I was focusing on getting the core functionality of the mod running. Heavier opposition will be coming once I deem everything to be stable (enough), mechanically.

 

The feedback's appreciated, and don't worry about being "no help" in this case. I need to see other people's experiences with the mod. My load order and your order no doubt vary heavily, and there always exists the possibility of something or another conflicting.

[essedess]

I had recently uninstalled a couple of mods, but i can't remember whether it was before the problem happened, or after but before it worked right. Just in case I will just say the 2 mods were Invested Magicka and a mod that makes you auto equip/unequip arrows when equiping/removing a bow from your character.

 

I am still looking forward to the finish product.

[Kazyn]

While I'm not familiar with Invested Magicka I might actually be interested. It looks like a nice tweak to spells. That will have to come at a later time. If you're using Auto Unequip Ammo, I can assure you that's not a conflict - I use that one too.

[Vemm]

Really enjoyed this mod and the general concept it had with spiders getting a unique combat style while also adding in some immersion. The issue though is that this mod now requires Death Alternative, which is probably my least favorite mod for Skyrim from a modding perspective. Death Alternative can't be removed from a save game, if you no longer want to use it you basically just have to disable it and deal with a dirty save (which isn't an option for someone like myself). On top of that DA basically consumes a massive chunk of the game's memory for such a minor aspect of gameplay. The trade off for DA causing memory crashes, stuttering, glitches, compatibility issues, and it's overly complex setup for a simple alternate death mechanic just isn't worth it.

 

A lot of the add-ons for DA like this mod and DA: Captured are enjoyable but not worth ruining a playthrough over. While I know you said you don't have an interest in making this mod sex related, Defeat is staggeringly more stable than DA and would be a nice alternative to using DA. I know how demanding modding is so I'm voicing this more as a concern than a request. Loved the earlier version of the mod, thanks for keeping that version up.

 

 

P.S. 

 

I also looked into the non DA dependent version of this mod and tested out adding in some various functions to help with the stability of being webbed. The overall issue for my playstyle I ran into was getting webbed at full health/stamina/magicka in heavy armor as a battle mage. Your DA dependent version of the mod basically does the same thing I tested out but via DA rather than percentage functions such as health/stamina/magicka checks. Think it'd be pretty easy to mimic DA's method of initiating Arachnophobia by just creating a Get(health/stamina/magicka)Percentage function configurable in MCM attached to the webbing script BaseEffect, maybe even a GetRandomPercentage function as well; while slightly less compatible with mods like Submit/Defeat/DA, it routes the incompatibilities of DA as a whole. 

 

I plan to continue using a personally modified version of your old version, but would love to implement those modifications into a non DA dependent version of your newest version. That'll take a lot more work to achieve I suspect, as it'd require more or less combining your old version with your new version and removing the DA aspects. 

 

If you can't tell I really love this mod and I've enjoyed it for a while now, but the DA requirement is basically a deal breaker. While I'm not the greatest script author, I'd be willing to try and create an alternative version of this mod that implements all the new features while routing the DA dependencies and keeping it updated as you update the mod. 

[bleeb]

Really enjoyed this mod and the general concept it had with spiders getting a unique combat style while also adding in some immersion. The issue though is that this mod now requires Death Alternative, which is probably my least favorite mod for Skyrim from a modding perspective. Death Alternative can't be removed from a save game, if you no longer want to use it you basically just have to disable it and deal with a dirty save (which isn't an option for someone like myself). On top of that DA basically consumes a massive chunk of the game's memory for such a minor aspect of gameplay. The trade off for DA causing memory crashes, stuttering, glitches, compatibility issues, and it's overly complex setup for a simple alternate death mechanic just isn't worth it.

 

A lot of the add-ons for DA like this mod and DA: Captured are enjoyable but not worth ruining a playthrough over. While I know you said you don't have an interest in making this mod sex related, Defeat is staggeringly more stable than DA and would be a nice alternative to using DA. I know how demanding modding is so I'm voicing this more as a concern than a request. Loved the earlier version of the mod, thanks for keeping that version up.

 

 

P.S. 

 

I also looked into the non DA dependent version of this mod and tested out adding in some various functions to help with the stability of being webbed. The overall issue for my playstyle I ran into was getting webbed at full health/stamina/magicka in heavy armor as a battle mage. Your DA dependent version of the mod basically does the same thing I tested out but via DA rather than percentage functions such as health/stamina/magicka checks. Think it'd be pretty easy to mimic DA's method of initiating Arachnophobia by just creating a Get(health/stamina/magicka)Percentage function configurable in MCM attached to the webbing script BaseEffect, maybe even a GetRandomPercentage function as well; while slightly less compatible with mods like Submit/Defeat/DA, it routes the incompatibilities of DA as a whole. 

 

I plan to continue using a personally modified version of your old version, but would love to implement those modifications into a non DA dependent version of your newest version. That'll take a lot more work to achieve I suspect, as it'd require more or less combining your old version with your new version and removing the DA aspects. 

 

If you can't tell I really love this mod and I've enjoyed it for a while now, but the DA requirement is basically a deal breaker. While I'm not the greatest script author, I'd be willing to try and create an alternative version of this mod that implements all the new features while routing the DA dependencies and keeping it updated as you update the mod. 

Interesting, I'd love to see your take on this mod as well. any idea what you'd include?

 

 

[Vemm]

 

Interesting, I'd love to see your take on this mod as well. any idea what you'd include?

 

 

 

I mean, I really would just do the mod exactly to the concept of where the new mod is now, just without DA. Instead of using DA's bleedout method I'd just use Arachnophobia's old webbing setup. Basically just an incorporation/continuation of the mod without the DA dependency.

 

The only issue I've ever noticed using the old version of this mod is that sometimes the webbing immunity doesn't function properly and I'll get rewebbed while getting up. All the old version needs is to ally the PC with the spider faction with a wait timer after breaking out of the webbing before removing the PC from the spider faction (I'd need to look into the script to see if that's included and possibly tweak it if it's not working properly). Basically there's a dilemma between immersion and functionality with the old version of the mod between having a calm effect on the spiders while getting up (animation restrictions) and the spiders immediately attacking when the PC is free from the webbing. 

 

In terms of scripting I'd just imagine using the PC's highest stat to determine when webbing is possible. Currently I just have the old version modified to only web the PC below 20% stamina, with a little finese it may be possible to have the script determine which stat is the highest and use that for the Get(stat)Percentage so that each character is using their primary stat to initially resist the webbing.

 

Other than that, in terms of merging the old version with the new version I'd just want to keep what the new version has in terms of locations and the scene that takes place, while omitting the DA reference and replacing it with the old webbing script.

[Kazyn]

 

 

Interesting, I'd love to see your take on this mod as well. any idea what you'd include?

 

 

 

I mean, I really would just do the mod exactly to the concept of where the new mod is now, just without DA. Instead of using DA's bleedout method I'd just use Arachnophobia's old webbing setup. Basically just an incorporation/continuation of the mod without the DA dependency.

 

The only issue I've ever noticed using the old version of this mod is that sometimes the webbing immunity doesn't function properly and I'll get rewebbed while getting up. All the old version needs is to ally the PC with the spider faction with a wait timer after breaking out of the webbing before removing the PC from the spider faction (I'd need to look into the script to see if that's included and possibly tweak it if it's not working properly). Basically there's a dilemma between immersion and functionality with the old version of the mod between having a calm effect on the spiders while getting up (animation restrictions) and the spiders immediately attacking when the PC is free from the webbing. 

 

In terms of scripting I'd just imagine using the PC's highest stat to determine when webbing is possible. Currently I just have the old version modified to only web the PC below 20% stamina, with a little finese it may be possible to have the script determine which stat is the highest and use that for the Get(stat)Percentage so that each character is using their primary stat to initially resist the webbing.

 

Other than that, in terms of merging the old version with the new version I'd just want to keep what the new version has in terms of locations and the scene that takes place, while omitting the DA reference and replacing it with the old webbing script.

 

 

Let me share with you some thoughts on both my experiences in trying this and what I would've liked this to be:

 

So starting from the top of your post here:

Adding the PC to the spider faction was something I've tried doing and for whatever reason the spider remains hostile to anything around including the victims it has entangled. Forcing AI package updates, stopping combat, etc. has all but failed. The only thing that seemed to work for me was changing the spider's aggression to 0 temporarily and then reverting it when the player escaped, however the next problem this presented was that the spider would refuse to attack ANYTHING even when other things were attacking it. It essentially got pacified. It was a problem I never fully figured out how to rectify.

 

So to get the spider to stop attacking the player while still attempting to defend itself, I used Princessity's old system (was MsLeeches) of just setting the victim to be restrained and unconscious. The unfortunate side effect of this was that the camera became locked into position and you couldn't look around. Sometimes, you'd just see your character plop to the ground and out of view of your camera.

 

Regarding DA:

It's not something I wanted to implement fully as a dependent, but given my personal limitations as well as the finicky nature of the game engine, the only stable thing I could feel comfortable putting out was a DA-dependent version. For those who've been following this will remember a significant gap in between this release and the old release. Minor tweaks were made and such to keep things moving on my end, but with all of the bugs and issues present, I couldn't feel good about releasing what I had.

 

Would I like a DA-less version? Overall, yes, I wouldn't mind it. I know a lot of people dislike the mod for whatever reason. I hear it's performance heavy, is full of bugs and issues and other compatibility conflicts, but I am one of the few who can claim to not have experienced any problems with it. Maybe it's my rig, maybe it's because I'm careful about managing my load order and optimizing my game, or maybe I'm just damn lucky, I don't know. Everyone's load order and mod preferences are different from one another so it could be one or more of any of those reasons and then some.

 

I like DA for its concept. I like the idea of a story continuing despite a hero or heroine's defeats. I think it helps develop the character from an RP perspective - a continuing narrative of sorts. Few other mods offer the branching stories that fire no matter what it is you're defeated by.

 

That's what I like about it. However, I also understand why people dislike it. So believe me when I say it was a tough decision (and still is something I struggle with to this day) to make the mod dependent on DA.

 

I had someone PM me awhile back about the core purpose of the mod and how it was intended to introduce new mechanics into combat that made spiders significantly more threatening DURING combat. I wanted to keep that, I really did and a good part of me wants to revert to doing that, but I don't know if I have the skills to do so at this time. Hell, I even wanted to continue on to making other monsters more unique in the combat mechanics they brought to the field - Wisp mothers, draugr, giants, etc. Some of you may remember that. I still want that. This mod was supposed to be the first stepping stone but the challenges it has brought have been rather tiring to say the least.

 

Am I still looking into it? Oh yes. Not a week goes by I don't open up the CK and mess around in it to try and progress or learn something new.

 

Now for some final thoughts:

 

I personally am not satisfied with this mod.

The DA version was more or less an experiment to see how it was received. It's very hit or miss. I am only barely content with the state of the new release and concept but that's it. It's very ephemeral and hardly rewarding to me. Nonetheless, I thought at least putting this version out might shed new light on possible ideas to make this better. See how it goes. The results are about what I expected, though, and I am left with a negative after-taste.

 

 

What I'd like to see:

-I'd like to see in-combat entanglement make a return, but a more stable one with a more robust escape system.

-I'd like for this mod to not be reliant on DA. I'd like for other methods of firing this mod's events.

 

I'm regretting ever implementing the custom spider cave. The main purpose of the mod was to be a gameplay alteration, by changing what certain effects do - not add "quests" and such to it. I've deviated heavily from this and may be realizing it a bit too late.

 

With all of this said, I'm essentially going back to the drawing board, cleaning up the old version's code a bit and then starting fresh with what I know works. I've come a long way since that release and looking back at those atrocities for scripts makes me want to explode into 1s and 0s everywhere.

 

This has been a bit of rant...

[Vemm]

 

Let me share with you some thoughts on both my experiences in trying this and what I would've liked this to be...

 

 

I completely understand where you're coming from, there are a significant number of issues within the game's limitations regarding modding that are impossible to work around.

 

Death Alternative is an incredible mod that ties a hell of a lot of other mods together and makes gameplay exceptionally unique, my only real issue with it is that it's /not/ a framework mod that's treated like a framework mod; thus where all the issues come from. I'm glad to hear that using DA isn't your first choice for this mod; nothing against DA, but as you mentioned the new version is a very different approach from the old one. 

 

If you want I could send you a PM with some various ideas I've had over the last few days thinking about this mod. The faction thing is kind of hit and miss like you said, I was messing with a mod in FO4 that adds the PC to various factions and it seemed to work for the most part but had some odd bugs. I'll poke around the CK and research what I've thought of before sending you a PM so you have a bit of data already on how they've worked for me. I'll have to spend a few days messing around with some ideas though; your scripting skills are far better than mine, but the mods I've created work rather well using very light scripting so I may have a few useful, simplistic suggestions. All the same, cheers for the response and your time, really love this mod.

 

P.S.

 

As you mentioned with expanding this mod out beyond just spiders, you could probably almost entirely mimic this mod using magic attacks and/or soul trapping to put someone into a crystal they have to break out of? Kind of off topic but I can see the potential in this kind of mod expanding beyond just a single mob type. 

[Kazyn]

Entanglement used to actually be a magic effect that was applied to victims via the applicable spider abilities. It did all of this without a quest, oddly enough. I'd like to try and return to that. But anyway, sure, feel free to shoot me a PM of what you might have. Oblivion only knows I could use some creative juices right now.

 

Meanwhile, the main thing that got in my way apart from Arachnophobia itself were the other enemies' entrapments being too repetitive. It'd basically be entanglement with a different skin. A pseudo-proof-of-concept mod was running on my machine a while back that retextured the zaz cocoons with the wisp wrapping texture and then I made the wisp mother attacks appear to entangle their target in their wrappings. But again, the escape method was exactly the same with the spider webs. Perhaps with varying escape mechanisms it may become a bit more practical. However, that's a discussion to be had WAYYYYY down the line.

[Wildgrave]

I know you're saying this is way down the line, and I know you don't want the same escape mechanic (i have no idea how to change that up) but perhaps have different consequences for each set? Spiders would of course drag you off to keep you, these would be the basic kind of entanglement. Then you mentioned wisp mothers? Perhaps they steal half of your magicka once wrapped and form a special wisp from it, which once you kill you get your magicka back. Could mark that on your map or something and you need to track it down... With the explanation that you're drawn to your own magical essence. Then perhaps the draugr when they wrap you want to harness your dragon shout, so they wrap you up and start stealing dragon souls or dragon shouts, and the draugr "boss" of the area gains these shouts. I dunno how you'd make him use them, but perhaps you just need to kill him to take back your ability to dragon shout. I'm not sure about chaurus/falmor or any other enemies but i guess if you can't give them different escape mechanics, give them different consequences.

[iorelsan]

Hey man have you seen the changes that BM announced for DA? they sound really interesting!

[Kazyn]

Indeed they do seem a bit interesting. 

[323starlight]

I found a problem and I can't figure out what's going wrong.

 

When I wake up after a spider beats me, my character is standing up instead of hanging upside down (he's still in the cocoon and motionless)

I tried struggling and the web strength meter wouldn't go down no matter what. Clockwise, counterclockwise, it wouldn't budge. Heck the spider never even returned to check on me. It only checked on me once and tightened the webs, after that it never came back. And I must've exhausted my character struggling like... 20 times.