[CLOSED] Project C.I.T.R.U.S. - Old WIP thread

[Deedlit]

ah its not mine, i just toke others people texture (sg lips) and pasted and removed gaps of lips, but i got plans of remake way more, not sure if will work fine, but worth try. That why im curios about permissions, so if all authors got fine i can try a mix and match and seen what goes on, idk about other people, but sometimes i seen lips from one author,eyes from another, genitals from other and think , god i wish someone do one with all that combination, that will be great, already made some for self use(CBBE) , and i guess some people think same way, i dnt wanna disrespect / let angry any author, im going try when have more time to something and pm the authors of used texture to seen if i can do that and if got ill give the respective credit.

*At pic from previous post its from unibody, just lips changed.

[blabba]

W00T!

 

New body, with mostly fixed weighting.

 

Only real noticeable bugs so far:

1. Hand normals still messed up (I give up on this, there is still only a very slight seam around the edges, but meh whatevs, I'll hope someone can make a proper hand Normal for it)

2. Floating feet (Vioxsis told me she can fix this easily, just waiting on groovy to add a few bones, Canderes helped rig a new foot mesh so now each toe is controlled by a bone, similar to the hand)

3. Maybe more, in the soon to come beta testing for this weekend

 

Here's a gif fo all y'all at my test slider creation. It's supposed to be a conversion reference from Dreamgirl to 7base Bombshell High weight. Though I will be re-doing the dreamgirl conversion as it is not as accurate as could be. Also, for hand and feet seam positioning... I will have to figure that out and edit it appropriately later...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Night All!

 

[Deedlit]

Really happy you dnt forgot dreamgirl, i really love that body, i just wanna more breast xd, now its a dream turning true

[blabba]

All right so I have UNP, 7Base Bombshell and CBBE morphs ready to convert to the newly dubbes 'Unibase' Shape...

 

Now All I have to do is make the countless morphs for the actual body shapes WITHOUT them having the ridiculously weird offset thingy...

Then I gotta mask stuff....

Make sliders.... Play around with vertex orders... and other things....

 

So In short, I'll be extremely lucky to release a new beta for testing by next week. The beta's selection of sliders will also obviously be pretty limited in terms of body shapes.

My huge list of body conversions will take.... A pretty darn good amount of time....

Well Hopefully someone will come along and offer help/advice on how to streamline my workflow instead of messing around with creating morphs and then.

 

And for the love of all that is sane, can someone PLEASE EXPLAIN why is it when I add a skin modifier the scale of the body changes in the upper body?

This little discrepency is causing me to re-do more of my conversions than I care to admit...

[easykill]

will this support armours in the fashion of http://www.loverslab.com/topic/18908-wip-bodymorph/ ?

[blabba]

will this support armours in the fashion of http://www.loverslab.com/topic/18908-wip-bodymorph/ ?

No, this is for bodyslide

[Deedlit]

really getting excited, cant wait to give up cbbe and use dreamgirl with better breasts ( that will be possible no?), and use the armors for cbbe at that (its will be done auto or with bodyslide? im kinda lost at that, or i use unibody with dreamgirl proportions (wich i dnt know ))? if can explain better about that im glad, going redo my questions:

a) we will use the desired body and will get clothes fitted using unibody like preset to create armors at bodyslide?

or e will use unibody like main and will make the body like we wanna with bodyslide and that we allow us to use like cbbe clothes fitting with bodyslide for "dreamgirl proportions" unibody set?

i guess its right said B its correct no? sorry about that amount of questions.

[blabba]

You'll need to use a bodyslide conversion reference to bring it down to Unibase where all the other sliders will be at.

[stuffed_bunny]

No, this is for bodyslide

 

Actually, the available Bodymorph sets uses converted Bodyslide data. I haven't tested it myself, but both

UNPv0.4 and CB++ were available. Seems to be an experiment so far, but maybe Expired is still working on it.

[Phygnos]

And for the love of all that is sane, can someone PLEASE EXPLAIN why is it when I add a skin modifier the scale of the body changes in the upper body?

This little discrepency is causing me to re-do more of my conversions than I care to admit...

 

There's a difference in the original skeleton's bone position that the mesh was weighted to and the currently active one, IIRC.

The breast bones on the "extended" skeleton might be different from the default XP32 or whatever was in vogue originally.

[blabba]

 

And for the love of all that is sane, can someone PLEASE EXPLAIN why is it when I add a skin modifier the scale of the body changes in the upper body?

This little discrepency is causing me to re-do more of my conversions than I care to admit...

 

There's a difference in the original skeleton's bone position that the mesh was weighted to and the currently active one, IIRC.

The breast bones on the "extended" skeleton might be different from the default XP32 or whatever was in vogue originally.

 

 

0.o

 

No that's not it or if it is it shouldn't cause Bodyslide to export my entire body out with different bone scales and positions

I did a quick test, and when I export out from 3dsMAx a body weighted and in correct proportions to vanilla bodies it works fine in-game.

I take the same body .nif file, and run it through Bodyslide or OS and export the .nif and even from just looking at it in Nifskope you can tell the bones are placed incorrectly. As if another skin morph modifier was placed on top of the bodies already existing skin data. Causing it's scale to be off, and when you test in game it is indeed off.'

 

Double checked with groovtama and he said Bodyslide/OS messes up the skin data on import or export.

 

So until Caliente responds back to my inquires or I found a suitable workaround that doesn't involve using lockseam sliders (it's what CBBE uses to get around this problem, if you disable it you'll see the same issue I'm having) I'll get back onto this.

But until then this mod is stuck dead in the water

 

[gerra6]

And for the love of all that is sane, can someone PLEASE EXPLAIN why is it when I add a skin modifier the scale of the body changes in the upper body?

This little discrepency is causing me to re-do more of my conversions than I care to admit...

Probably a problem with skinned bones and skeletons.

 

Warning...this gets really ugly really fast.

 

For whatever reason, many Skyrim skeletons have scale modifiers attached to some of the bones. Unfortunately, any bones that are children of one of those bones inherit that scale modifier.

 

Next, when a bone is skinned to a mesh, the skinned bone record in the skininstance block will generally have an inverse of the skinned bone's total transform (relative to the scene root) applied to it.

 

This is important...If the skinned bone transform cancels out the bone bind transform, any vertices weighted by that bone won't move unless the bone is animated away from its bind position.

 

Are you with me so far? This is crazy hard to visualize, I know.

 

So...what happens if you change the bind transform of a bone, but don't account for that change in the skinned instance of that bone? Any vertices weighted by that bone end up getting transformed.

 

OK...that brings us to your question.

 

For some other reason that I am not aware of, Bodyslide appears to discard scale modifiers when it adapts a body (this is based on second hand nifs that have been sent to me, I have no direct experience with Bodyslide).

 

So...what happens if you remove the scale modifier from a bone? Lets say that the bone has a scale modifier of .5. That means that the skinned bone instance would need to have a scale modifier of 2 to cancel out the .5 (2 * .5 = 1).

 

But if the bone scale modifier is reset to 1, but the skinned bone scale modifier is still 2, then suddenly any vertices weighted by that skinned bone receive the full brunt of that scale modifier.

 

Doe any of this make any sense?

[gerra6]

Oh yeah...I should mention. Both my Clean Nif and Mesh Rigger tools can automatically re-rig a mesh to use a skeleton that does not have a scale modifier.

 

The back-end process is hideously complicated, but the end result is that the tool can freely convert a mesh from a skeleton that has scaling to one that does not without changing the *world space* locations of any vertices.

 

So, if you are working on a conversion and you end up with the ugly scaling problem, grab a version of the nif with the old skeleton, run mesh rigger or Clean Nif to change the skeleton, and try applying the modifier on the updated mesh.

[blabba]

 

Probably a problem with skinned bones and skeletons.

 

Warning...this gets really ugly really fast.

 

For whatever reason, many Skyrim skeletons have scale modifiers attached to some of the bones. Unfortunately, any bones that are children of one of those bones inherits that scale modifier.

 

Next, when a bone is skinned to a mesh, the skinned bone record in the skininstance block will generally have an inverse of the skinned bone's total transform (relative to the scene root) applied to it.

 

This is important...If the skinned bone transform cancels out the bone bind transform, any vertices weighted by that bone won't move unless the bone is animated away from its bind position.

 

Are you with me so far? This is crazy hard to visualize, I know.

 

So...what happens if you change the bind transform of a bone, but don't account for that change in the skinned instance of that bone? Any vertices weighted by that bone end up getting transformed.

 

OK...that brings us to your question.

 

For some other reason that I am not aware of, Bodyslide appears to discard scale modifiers when it adapts a body (this is based on second hand nifs that have been sent to me, I have no direct experience with Bodyslide).

 

So...what happens if you remove the scale modifier from a bone? Lets say that the bone has a scale modifier of .5. That means that the skinned bone instance would need to have a scale modifier of 2 to cancel out the .5 (2 * .5 = 1).

 

But if the bone scale modifier is reset to 1, but the skinned bone scale modifier is still 2, then suddenly any vertices weighted by that skinned bone receive the full brunt of that scale modifier.

 

Doe any of this make any sense?

 

 

Can't say I fully understand what your saying, although maybe when I'm not too tired I can take a deeper look at your (what seems to be) very thorough explanation.

But it does follow with what groovtama was telling me earlier this morning about the bone scales not being normalized on import/export of a nif in OS/Bodyslide.

 

He said that an unnormalized reference skeleton might do the trick, but that doesn't work too well for import (messes it up in OS view) and without source to try to look at this problem so as to fix it so it does normalize the values it seems no suitable workaround or fix can happen

 

edit: I wish I thought to use your mesh rigger about that to re-skin my meshes to see if I could get the scales balanced between conversions. But in the end it's unfeasable for end users to fix their exported nifs by running your tool as well. (They'd just blame me for making bad morphs or whatever...)

So I'll still have to wait and see if any sort of good fix can come out for this to work as I had originally envisioned.

[gerra6]

You should still try Mesh Rigger for that...when Mesh Rigger re-rigs a nif with a new skeleton, it rebuilds the skin instance, updates vertex locations and a bunch of other things to ensure that the re-rigged nif will behave *exactly* the same as its pre-mesh rigger counterpart in game.

 

Basically, just use a body using the bodyslide skeleton as the skeleton template and replace the existing skeleton using either Mesh Rigger or Nif Cleaner.

 

Once that's done, you should be able to import/export the nif from bodyslide without any problems.

 

Note: this is probably only something that needs to be done with meshes rigged off of the (very buggy) x-32 skeleton and its derivatives. I believe that they are the only family of skeletons that actually have scale transforms in the bone binds (which really is something you should never ever do).

 

Obviously, fixing that aspect of Bodyslide would also solve that problem. However, I can speak from experience...accounting for the absolute insanity of the X.32 skeleton in a non-specific non-hackish way was a true nightmare.

[blabba]

You should still try Mesh Rigger for that...when Mesh Rigger re-rigs a nif with a new skeleton, it rebuilds the skin instance, updates vertex locations and a bunch of other things to ensure that the re-rigged nif will behave *exactly* the same as its pre-mesh rigger counterpart in game.

 

Basically, just use a body using the bodyslide skeleton as the skeleton template and replace the existing skeleton using either Mesh Rigger or Nif Cleaner.

 

Once that's done, you should be able to import/export the nif from bodyslide without any problems.

 

Note: this is probably only something that needs to be done with meshes rigged off of the (very buggy) x-32 skeleton and its derivatives. I believe that they are the only family of skeletons that actually have scale transforms in the bone binds (which really is something you should never ever do).

 

Sweet will try, but what sort of settings should I set for mesh rigger?

 

I'll try the nifcleaner tool you mentioned as well, hopefully this gets rid of that problem, but it'll be still somewhat hellish to deal with the various morphs but Oh well.

 

[gerra6]

Sweet will try, but what sort of settings should I set for mesh rigger?

 

I'll try the nifcleaner tool you mentioned as well, hopefully this gets rid of that problem, but it'll be still somewhat hellish to deal with the various morphs but Oh well.

here's a link to the latest version of the tool package that contains Nif Cleaner:

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/27557-new-clothing-body-style-converter-release-candidate-v072-3-30-2014/?p=742432

 

The upgrade package can be copied into either Mesh Rigger or Clothing Converter.

 

Clean Nif is pretty simple and straightforward.

 

I'd recommend the following:

 

After running clean_nif.bat

 

1. Click File-> skeleton options -> select skeleton Choose the nif that you want to copy the bones from. This should be a nif that is fully bodyslide compatible with no issues in the skeleton or animating it in game

2. click File -> Target Options -> and select either the file or folders that you want to process

3. Enable 'Replace Skeleton'

4. Enable 'Re-Skin Nif'

5. don't worry about 'Flatten Skeleton'. That option is primarily useful if your skeleton template is a full skeleton, instead of one you are copying from a body nif.

 

Click OK.

 

The tool will automatically update any meshes with the new skeletons. If it identifies any _0 _1 pairs it will automatically ensure that the output _0 _1 nifs have matching vertex weights and bones. When it is done with a nif, it will save it either in the output folder, or the folder that you specify.

 

If you're working with a large folder of nifs, you can generally treat it a bit like a fire and forget tool. Just start it, get it processing a folder, and let it do its job while you work on other things.

 

It's Python, so it's not fast. But it's effective. (I'll be porting my stuff to C++ one of these days)

[MysteriousSwordsman]

Here is a shot of Trianne with the Unibody Test 5:

 

 

 

[Eikichi Onizuka]

Here is Unibody test5 lined up with bombshape body. I thought the scaling prolem was

solved weeks ago, but apparently not. Perhaps it's reintroduced at every new modification.

No reweighting experiments for me until it has the same scale as Skyrim bodies.

 

unibody_and_bombshape.jpg

but in theory, with the Universal Body, it would be possible to make it assume any shape, size, without the limitations that have other traditional bodies, and at the same time be compatible with any type of armor or outfit ?

 

 

if things are roughly in this way, would be a small dream come true, we could put in the attic the other bodies,

 

and not having to hope for conversions between a body and the other to get the favorite armor

[hryh23k9823u]

 

Here is Unibody test5 lined up with bombshape body. I thought the scaling prolem was

solved weeks ago, but apparently not. Perhaps it's reintroduced at every new modification.

No reweighting experiments for me until it has the same scale as Skyrim bodies.

 

unibody_and_bombshape.jpg

but in theory, with the Universal Body, it would be possible to make it assume any shape, size, without the limitations that have other traditional bodies, and at the same time be compatible with any type of armor or outfit ?

 

yes

[Deedlit]

so to resume, we can model like we wanna the unibody (with bodyslide2 slides presets) and the clothes will autofit so? (theory)

[hryh23k9823u]

so to resume, we can model like we wanna the unibody (with bodyslide2 slides presets) and the clothes will autofit so? (theory)

 

The clothes converted to do that...!

 

[Eikichi Onizuka]

I hope that the following features will be integrated into future


1) TBBP full support

2) HDT PE full support (collision for butt and breast)

3) HDT SOS collision

4) HDT Belly collision / distortion with SOS

4) HDT Havock Object full support

5) any height and size of the breast and butt , from the smallest to the largest you can have

6) compatibility with all body/face textures UNP, CBBE, CHSBHC, Etc.., if not possible, at least suits all the UNP
 
 
can you do..?

[blabba]

I hope that the following features will be integrated into future

 

 

1) TBBP full support

 

2) HDT PE full support (collision for butt and breast)

 

3) HDT SOS collision

 

4) HDT Belly collision / distortion with SOS

 

5) HDT Havock Object full support

 

6) any height and size of the breast and butt , from the smallest to the largest you can have

 

7) compatibility with all body/face textures UNP, CBBE, CHSBHC, Etc.., if not possible, at least suits all the UNP

 

 

can you do..?

 

1. Nope, getting rid of Breat01 weights as I am more favouring new customized weights for HDT on Belly,Breasts and Jiggle.

 

2. Yes body will be optimized for the wonders of HDT and who knows maybe if I get enough time to experiment I'll get Project FLESH on it too.

 

3. Umm, this is tricky, Phygnos is working on the SOS thing, he has the latest revision of the Unibody, and so once he makes and finishes his stuff on the body, I should be able to create a 'Futa' morph set as well, but we'll have to see how that goes.

 

4. Of Course I'll have an option for that , hopefully it'll be tweaked to be better!

 

5. I don't use Havok Object, but I do not see how this body wouldn't support it

 

6. I have so many dam morphs planned and in the works that I think there will be too many options, but that's up to users to decide

 

7. The Body and Feet will use UNP UV's, it's been planned that way. However, the Hands use new UV's and I'm lucky enough to have momst of the major texturers out there let me convert their textures. The downside is initial release, not much texture support but if it get popular I'm sure someone with more time and talent then me can make newer and better textures for both the hands and feet (they have proper nails on them now)

 

[Cranky Cat]

I'll be happy if I can just get a slider for biceps :-) Arms are still kind of shapeless even with bodyslide 2.0 and the arms/chubby arms sliders.