(V0.0.5) SmallerTalk - Smalltalk replacement

[prideslayer]

Many thanks to astymma for all the hard work!

 

He has officially taken ownership of the mod, and his thread is available here.

 

Go forth and.. smallertalk!

[prideslayer]

Let me know how it goes. I'm trying to come up with a good way to support non-human NPCs.

 

I'm thinking of releasing it on nexus, but it's hard for me to get over my dislike of their management and much of the "community."

 

 

[gregathit]

Let me know how it goes. I'm trying to come up with a good way to support non-human NPCs.

 

I'm thinking of releasing it on nexus' date=' but it's hard for me to get over my dislike of their management and much of the "community."

 

 

[/quote']

 

I suggest renaming it, just so some dummy doesn't report you as "stealing" the small talk authors work. Ya know how those douche bags roll over there.....

[prideslayer]

This starts conversation just fine... but that's it. I don't know what you did to get it working.

 

It'll zoom in' date=' start a convo, the NPC will say their piece, then the conversation will terminate without a goodbye option. Sewer Slave and the Tryouts add their topics as a top-level dialog choice spoken by appropriate NPCs; those dialog choices aren't appearing, as it seems the conversation's goodbye flags kick in before that can happen.

[/quote']

 

Are you sure you're talking to an NPC that has the dialog set? I didn't do anything special. NPCs without additional dialog behave like you describe, but those that have it should work just like with smalltalk; I tested it with sewerslave and had no issues, all the options from SS that would be there with smaltalk appeared and worked as expected.

 

Going to test now with how about.

 

Edit: HowAbout worked fine as well... hmmm

[prideslayer]

Are you sure you're talking to an NPC that has the dialog set?

 

West Side residents in Sewer Slave' date=' Legionaries at the Fort while enslaved in SexoutLegion, and NCR troopers I should have been able to whore myself to.

 

[/quote']

 

Very strange. I don't think I can test with tryout right now since the latest release doesn't require smalltalk or anything like that right?

 

The latest sewerslave and howabout both worked as intended.

 

Modwise I don't have much so I don't think it's anything special about my list.

 

 

[X] FalloutNV.esm
[X] MikotoBeauty.esm
[X] Primary Needs HUD.esm
[ ] SexoutORIG.esm
[X] rePopulated Wasteland.esm
[X] Sexout.esm
[X] SexoutCommonResources.esm
[X] SexoutLegion.esm
[ ] Smalltalk.esp
[X] Type3 Leather Armors.esp
[X] SexoutNotify.esp
[X] UnlimitedCompanions.esp
[X] MikotoBeauty.esp
[X] BlueTint.esp
[X] The Mod Configuration Menu.esp
[X] Centered 3rd Person Camera - Unraised.esp
[X] FalloutNVCheatTerminal.esp
[X] bzArmour.esp
[X] bzBodySuits.esp
[ ] SexoutBribes.esp
[ ] SexoutDiscounts.esp
[ ] SexoutHookups.esp
[ ] SexoutLust.esp
[ ] SexoutRapersWIP.esp
[ ] SexoutPregnancy.esp
[ ] SexoutRapers.esp
[ ] SexoutKhans.esp
[ ] SexoutKings.esp
[ ] SexoutNCR.esp
[ ] SexoutPowderGangers.esp
[ ] SexoutProstitutes.esp
[ ] SexoutFiends.esp
[ ] Sexout.esp
[ ] SexoutCrowds.esp
[X] SexoutSS.esp
[X] SmallerTalk.esp
[X] SexoutHowAbout.esp

 

 

[prideslayer]

I reverted the change so it worked like it used to for my tests. I'll play around more' date=' probably me doing something stupid until someone else says otherwise. What I don't understand is why it works to start the convo but gives no dialogue options.

[/quote']

 

 

Can you confirm it works in one of the other mods I've tried? HowAbout is the easiest since it's small and doesn't require the 'lead up' that sewerslave does.

 

HowAbout works ok and the topics are just top level, dialog priority is default (50). I didn't see anything special when I looked at the code. You sure you don't have dialog conditions that are preventing your options from being displayed?

 

Edit: Don't know what you mean by "reverted". Your setup should be the same as it would be for SmallTalk, just top level dialog options in a quest.

[prideslayer]

By reverted I meant I used the older version of Tryout that required Smalltalk. I've tried HowAbout' date=' which I've never used, and SewerSlave, which I have a save dedicated to. No dialog options appear, the convo just ends.

[/quote']

 

This version should work in place of smalltalk, so what you've done sounds like the right thing.

 

Try it now but using smallertalk instead of smalltalk.

[prideslayer]

I have been using smallertalk. All it does is launch the GREETING dialog' date=' present me with no options (not even Goodbye) then zooms out and play resumes.

[/quote']

 

Does the version of NCR in your thread for download now require smalltalk? If so I'll make sure I have that version and see if I can figure out what's going on.

[Guest Donkey]

All smalltalk does, is making 1 general dialog, then use the faction, to set who gets to use it when you try to speak to it.

 

So if it is a dog, all the dialog will look for, is if the dog belong to CreatureHitDogFaction Then dialog is vial. if not you will not be able to speak with it.

 

So if not set correctly you will only see partial screen it closes it self, and you will not be presented with a greeting nor GoodBye

[prideslayer]

Here's the version that requires smalltalk.

 

Thanks, giving it a look now.

[prideslayer]

OK. For NCR it's working on all the named soldiers I tried (10 of spades, sterling, etc), but not the unnamed ones. I'm taking a closer look.

[prideslayer]

Ok, so for some of the dialogs (like the NCR trooper vanilla ones), all their random GREETING topics are set to 'goodbye' for no reason at all. I removed the goodbyes from all of them and it blasted the smallertalk ESP up to 48KB (from 2KB). It did fix the issue though.

 

Attached below so you can test it out yourself.

 

With this being the issue, we should make these changes in the individual mods (NCR in NCR tryout, Legion in Legion Tryout, etc.). This will keep smallertalk small, spread the load around between different mods, and ensure it still works with all the DLC without actually requiring the DLC.

 

Edit: was typing this while you were typing yours. Yes, the 'goodbye' flag is the issue.

[prideslayer]

Ahh I get it. So if you remove those flags in the tryout ESPs and ESM, then you don't need this *or* smalltalk. What a shame / wasted time.

 

Well, there's always another option; I can go back to the "alternate key" thing that I originally had, and use it to initiate a topic other than GREETING; SmallertalkGreeting or something like that. Still thinking about how this would work exactly.

 

The "goodbye removal" isn't going to work well for generic mods that need to interact with a lot of factions (or any faction) like HowAbout or a generic prostitution mod -- they will bloat up to be just as large as smalltalk.

 

Another option that will probably fix the loadtime issue is to merge smalltalk.esp into FalloutNV.ESM. I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes.

[prideslayer]

The problem with HowAbout doing that is that the work will have to be duplicated in any other similar 'generic' mod, like a global prostitution mod. They shouldn't actually conflict as long as all they do is remove goodbye flags, but still, it's a lot of duplicated work.

 

Another option is to make the Tryout dialogs non-random in their initial response. That's part of the issue as well: All of the 'random' items, including the vanilla ones with the goodbyes, are being piled together and one is chosen.

 

A non-random option set to top level will aleays appear -- this is why smallertalk (the one in the OP) works fine with HowAbout -- it doesn't have any random things in the top level, only in response to your choices.

[Halstrom]

Yeah Bad Voodoo to play with Fallout.ESM, though I think I did it once for something by accident and pulled it off. Then again I think I've crashed the game by accidently editing just armor descriptions in FalloutNV.ESM with FNVEdit too.

Maybe we could move/add some stuff into SCR rather than create another ESM.

[prideslayer]

A non-random option set to top level will aleays appear

 

Major Dhatri's top level in SexoutNCR isn't random and it fails to appear.

 

 

 

Hmmm. Dhatri worked ok for me, as did all the other named NCR. You have to talk to him about the fiends first if you haven't, since that quest is higher priority than the NCR Tryout one.

[prideslayer]

Hmmm. Dhatri worked ok for me' date=' as did all the other named NCR. You have to talk to him about the fiends first if you haven't, since that quest is higher priority than the NCR Tryout one.

[/quote']

 

Sorry, wasn't clear.

 

When you complete the fiend bounty quest, his greeting is a "Sorry, no more bounties." or something like that. It has a goodbye flag. Without Smalltalk - haven't tried it with Smallertalk - or removing the goodbye like I did, the top level topic from SexoutNCR still doesn't show up despite the fact it is not random.

 

 

Ahh ok. Same symptom is showing up here. Fiddled with the topic priority and that didn't get me anywhere. I'll keep poking at it and see if I can figure out why that topic of his seems to be special beyond just the 'goodbye'. I'm pretty sure there's more to it, even though that fixes it.

 

 

[prideslayer]

Loogie, take a look at the attached NCR ESP. I fixed the Dhatri issue by creating a GREETING topic in the NCR quest, creating a dummy topic with him as the condition, and then adding the two topics related to him (Lost and Volunteer) to its topic list.

 

This causes dialog with him to work again after completing the quest, with SmallerTalk (official OP version).

 

Might be a simple fix for other specific NPCs (or factions/whatever) exhibiting this issue.

[Tepi]

Im having some odd behavior but thats probably caused by smallertalk as It did work fine with smalltalk earlier. (That was before i did a complete reinstall so not sure.)

 

Can you try it without either one now? I believe loogie removed the smalltalk (and thus smallertalk) requirement by moving all the dialog changes into the Legion ESM.

 

Then drop back in and let us know if you do have difficulties' date=' and if they occur with or without smalltalk or smallertalk; if they happen only with smallertalk, please post with as much detail as you can in the smallertalk thread.[/quote']

 

Did some testing and results were following:

 

With smalltalk: Everything works as should.

 

With smallertalk: Every npc I talk to enters into conversation, althought if the npc doesnt have vanilla dialog choices, I have to initiate the conversation multiple times to get into dialog choice window. Also when I open companions inventory through the circle thingy (I hope its a vanilla feature and not something project nevada added ;p) and close it, it always triggers conversation with the companion. Doesnt happen with or without smalltalk.

 

Without either: Cannot initiate conversation with npc that do not have vanilla dialog, except for some oddly named npcs (ie some decanus dude within the fort, he has no vanilla dialog and still works like a charm).

 

All testing was made within the fort both free and enslaved. Smallertalk may have worked better while enslaved for whatever reason.

 

And heres hoping I remembered it all

[ChancellorKremlin]

Yeah, smallertalk seems a tad bugges for me so far. It works with Doc Johnson, Chet and Pete. but not random Goodsprings settlers. But then it works fine with Fiends (using your TryoutFiend plugin) but won't work with the newest version of SewerSlave (thereby making that mod impossible to play)

 

 

[prideslayer]

Just a minor info update.

 

What I've found is that, for some reason, the game pulls from two different areas when talking to an NPC, somewhat at random. Sometimes it pulls from GREETING (a Topic), other times it pulls from HELLO (a Conversation).

 

Topics in both of them have the "Goodbye" and "Random" flags set as expected, but only statements from one group (HELLO under Conversation) are working correctly with smallertalk.

 

Many of the statements are present in both groups, so it's been a little tricky nailing down where they came from. I also don't know why "startConversation player, GREETING" sometimes pulls from GREETING as told, and other times pulls from HELLO.

 

"Patrolling the mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter." - This one works fine 50% of the time, and is present in both sections. It works right when it's the HELLO one.

 

"You lost?" - This one does not work right, and is in the GREETING topic only.

 

Obviously for this to work as a drop-in replacement for smalltalk, I need to get it working with GREETING, since that's pretty much what everyone uses when adding smalltalk 'support' to their mods.

 

Just wanted to update everyone and let you know progress is being made.

[prideslayer]

Actually ignore bits of that last post. It seems "Patrolling the Mojave..." always works, as does "...hoping there'd be more gambling." "You lost?" never does.

 

Both of the last two are GREETING only items, not HELLO. What a pain in the ass.

[Bromm83]

I don't know if this would be viable, but what if you made a new dialogue quest, with only the topic SexoutGreeting, and added some lines they could say to you?

 

This would remove some of the respones that you normally get from them, but it should make it more stable...

[prideslayer]

I don't know if this would be viable' date=' but what if you made a new dialogue quest, with only the topic SexoutGreeting, and added some lines they could say to you?

 

This would remove some of the respones that you normally get from them, but it should make it more stable...

[/quote']

 

The thought had occurred to me, but that would break the core concept too -- a general replacement for smalltalk. Doing that would mean if you're using other mods that need smalltalk, you'd still have to have it loaded.

 

I'm not opposed to it, if I can't get this working the way I want, as sexout mods are the only ones I use that need smalltalk, but for other people they'd still have to suffer through loading smalltalk -- and it would probably break smalltalk anyway since it overrides the 'talk' key.

[prideslayer]

What would work with the custom topic like that would be for me to also go back to just using a different key, rather than the activate key. The initial test version was using the 'x' key. "X for sex conversations" would work fine from my perspective, but would be a bit immersion breaking maybe?