LMAO - Tolls and Crimes

[Ursur1major]

43 minutes ago, Alexvkj_new said:

Some more strange things:

 

1. Whiterun didn't require toll to be paid when I was on the main quest. To warn the Jarl and to bring the dragonstone. Is it a bug or feature?

2. When the licenses kicked in, the steward offered me a lifetime license to the configured price, and a normal one at a little discount

 

The configured values were 1000 septims for 5 days. So, paying 1000 septims for lifetime doesn't sound that oppressive. 645 was offered for normal one

1. I noticed something similar actually, on a brand new game I had to disable then re-enable the tolls for them to work.

2. That seems to be part of the economy system as I noticed the costs will now vary depending on Slave Levels which they didn't do before, though the Lifetime offer doesn't seem to be working properly, probably an interaction with Licenses treating x1.0 as "off" but LMAO decreasing the multiplier below x1.0 at low slave levels making it show up anyway.

It also doesn't seem to be working for all Licenses, only those affected by this mod which can make it a bit funny where trading licenses cost 1000 gold but armour costs 800 depending on slave levels.

Haven't been able to find any levers for this in the MCM for it yet though.

 

Tolls also seem to work with the economy code getting updated, but I don't think inn prices do, haven't actually been to a hostel yet to see if that works, and similarly carts don't seem to be adjusting their prices by slave level either from what I have seen, the manual adjustments do stick.
Not sure if bug or just not fully implemented though.

 

Also, a thing I've noticed with the updated Tattoo system.

I like that I'm getting more tattoos on my character's face, but it feels like it's trying to balance face use with body use, and seems to be ignoring tattoo location settings while doing so.

End result is that my character has about 7 body tattoos and 6 face tattoos, but all the face tattoos are overlapping each other.

[Thoraag]

1 hour ago, Alexvkj_new said:

Some more strange things:

 

1. Whiterun didn't require toll to be paid when I was on the main quest. To warn the Jarl and to bring the dragonstone. Is it a bug or feature?

2. When the licenses kicked in, the steward offered me a lifetime license to the configured price, and a normal one at a little discount

 

The configured values were 1000 septims for 5 days. So, paying 1000 septims for lifetime doesn't sound that oppressive. 645 was offered for normal one

1. Not FEATURE per say, but its intentional. I have it coded to defer to any default behavior if something else modifies the gate. So for that first entry its free with the normal scripted opening, and then you'll see the same situation in riften with the bribe.
2. Not sure about this. its not intended for use with lifetime licenses but I either forgot/didn't know life time licenses were a thing. I'll have to investigate that and maybe find a way to handle lifetime prices as well. easy fix is turning off lifetime licenses in the meantime, but its also one of those things I'd probably say just ignore unless its really bothering you. 

[Thoraag]

52 minutes ago, Ursur1major said:

1. I noticed something similar actually, on a brand new game I had to disable then re-enable the tolls for them to work.

2. That seems to be part of the economy system as I noticed the costs will now vary depending on Slave Levels which they didn't do before, though the Lifetime offer doesn't seem to be working properly, probably an interaction with Licenses treating x1.0 as "off" but LMAO decreasing the multiplier below x1.0 at low slave levels making it show up anyway.

It also doesn't seem to be working for all Licenses, only those affected by this mod which can make it a bit funny where trading licenses cost 1000 gold but armour costs 800 depending on slave levels.

Haven't been able to find any levers for this in the MCM for it yet though.

 

Tolls also seem to work with the economy code getting updated, but I don't think inn prices do, haven't actually been to a hostel yet to see if that works, and similarly carts don't seem to be adjusting their prices by slave level either from what I have seen, the manual adjustments do stick.
Not sure if bug or just not fully implemented though.

 

Also, a thing I've noticed with the updated Tattoo system.

I like that I'm getting more tattoos on my character's face, but it feels like it's trying to balance face use with body use, and seems to be ignoring tattoo location settings while doing so.

End result is that my character has about 7 body tattoos and 6 face tattoos, but all the face tattoos are overlapping each other.

1. that first one is just a "avoiding collisions" deferral by me. too many other mods touch that, so i made it so if something else is actually locking the gates, they will handle the release, and most of those times its a simple conversation to open it. 
2. Yeah didn't even think about lifetime one/maybe didn't know about that feature lol. 

The economy stuff in general is a little fussy economically, especially things like inn costs/carriage costs. LMAO only does economy updates on daily/city changes, so any other mods that manage the economic aspect will overrule LMAO's. Additionally - inn costs/carriage costs have an extra wrinkle, where the global is by default a constant. if that flag is on the global I can't update it. many mods that touch inns or carriages overwrite that global but leave the constant flag on, and when they overwrite lmao I can't touch those values. There is a good possibility in the future I help mitigate this by adding an esl patch that only handles those flags so it can go on the top of your LO. 

Tattoos - I THINK I OVERTUNED. I'll look into adjusting those settings. For me - while I was testing the escort system I probably got 100 tattoos over like 50 test runs, and I don't think I got a face tattoo once. so I put my thumb on the scale to give it a higher chance, but I think I overtuned. I have it trying to balance so it starts at a 10% chance and then every body tattoo increases the chance by 10% and every face tat reduces the chance by 20, but I think i probably want to do  5 and 25 or 5 and 30 or something. I was just tired of getting 10 body tattoos and not a single face tattoo.

 

[Alexvkj_new]

Oh, btw. a strange question for a kink modder, but ... can we get it work without hard dependency on DD and Sexlab?  Or make it more modular maybe? 

The reasons are following:

 

1. I like the tolls, crimes and world change systems. But I'm not sure about kennels, brothels etc. Since you already made it a bit modular with two different plugins and MCM,I just hope you'll keep it that way

2. For sex scenes I'd rather use OStim. Found out, when actively participating in a sex scene, it's fun. When passively watching it like in Sexlab, it's only annoying chore.

3. I strongly dislike the DD. It has nice locking mechanics but hundreds of absolutely lore-breaking items is a turn off, especially when they are being forced on my char at random. 

[Thoraag]

4 minutes ago, Alexvkj_new said:

Oh, btw. a strange question for a kink modder, but ... can we get it work without hard dependency on DD and Sexlab?  Or make it more modular maybe? 

The reasons are following:

 

1. I like the tolls, crimes and world change systems. But I'm not sure about kennels, brothels etc. Since you already made it a bit modular with two different plugins and MCM,I just hope you'll keep it that way

2. For sex scenes I'd rather use OStim. Found out, when actively participating in a sex scene, it's fun. When passively watching it like in Sexlab, it's only annoying chore.

3. I strongly dislike the DD. It has nice locking mechanics but hundreds of absolutely lore-breaking items is a turn off, especially when they are being forced on my char at random. 

both sexlab and DD are both soft dependancies, and there is a selector in the debug menu to switch to ostim instead of sexlab if you use it (don't remember if i got it to auto detect)

if you have ostim and not sexlab, you miss out on nothing, they should be mostly interchangable (but I don't personally test ostim and i don't have enough feedback from testers who do, so if you find issues let me know)

if you are missing DD there is more content gated, obviously. THAT BEING SAID - I also very much agree that i don't want a ton of lore breaking items forced on my character at random.

With DD: 
I use a custom tuned list (with a devices.json file in the interface folder you could also adjust) - only leather, metal, and rope devices. The device choices are scaled based off of slave level, so rope first, leather second, metal third. I despise things like corsets and giant laced boots and dresses and stuff, and they are not in the list. everything i picked looks plausibly medieval. LMAO will not add any devices on you without some sort of dialogue the guards do that give it context, and then LMAO adds the ability to ask npcs for help removing them (but they might fuck with you) and the ability to get devices removed for a fee at blacksmiths (safely). I DO recommend it, but its certainly not required and there is a mountain of content that doesn't use it. With escort stuff it can still be accessible if you use something like ZAZ, and I have my own built in collar that might be applied but is also mostly neglected cause DD is superior.

So you shouldn't have any issues there. I do actually plan to make all of those their own esls within the fomod im working on, but even now they aren't needed

[Alexvkj_new]

11 minutes ago, Thoraag said:

With DD: 
I use a custom tuned list (with a devices.json file in the interface folder you could also adjust) - only leather, metal, and rope devices. The device choices are scaled based off of slave level, so rope first, leather second, metal third. I despise things like corsets and giant laced boots and dresses and stuff, and they are not in the list. everything i picked looks plausibly medieval. 

 

Hah! I sensed a kindred spirit here!

When I roleplayted in Conan Exiles, people constantly gave me shit for not being medieval enough btw. But it's not even about medieval look. I remember times when the only boot-slot item in DD was pony boots. So every kink mod pushed those boots because well... Modern DD is a huge library of items for every style and fetish. But not every fetish is my fetish. I wish I could filter the DD items at DD level ... well, maybe some day, shouldn't be THAT complicated

 

With OStim, as long as you just fire the sex event with appropriate roles, all should be fine. Let's test it. 

[Thoraag]

27 minutes ago, Alexvkj_new said:

 

Hah! I sensed a kindred spirit here!

When I roleplayted in Conan Exiles, people constantly gave me shit for not being medieval enough btw. But it's not even about medieval look. I remember times when the only boot-slot item in DD was pony boots. So every kink mod pushed those boots because well... Modern DD is a huge library of items for every style and fetish. But not every fetish is my fetish. I wish I could filter the DD items at DD level ... well, maybe some day, shouldn't be THAT complicated

 

With OStim, as long as you just fire the sex event with appropriate roles, all should be fine. Let's test it. 

When I do get around to a seperate DD patch there will for sure be included a patch that cleans up all leveled lists to make more realistic devices. Cause I LOVE me some Devious Devices, but I really don't want a bright yellow gas mask it takes me out of the entire game. Its one of my frustrations with stuff like cursed loot. Fun idea, easy onboarding with devices, but it keeps putting on wacky shit that could only be made in a 20th century factory. no thank you.

I'll also note with my device delivery, it tries to logically add items to create stakes and provide better logical flow. its usually collar first, gag/armbinder second, boots (metal) third, assorted bands and stuff fourth, plugs/peircings fifth and only when naked. though I have found I am overusing the gag tbh and am going to be scaling back its use cause its the most annoying effect of the devices and causes the most problem (but if you have a gag my dialogue also adapts and works with it in like 99% of cases)

But yeah, let me know how things work out and if the ostim route needs some cleanup, but it should just work. 

[thehangman625]

I want to say, I really like the mod, thank you for your great work! It feels immersive, because I guess the backwater province of Skyrim would quickly devolve into rampant misogyny, corruption and slavery, especially during a civil war. But I have a few questions:
 

1. Is it possible to play with just the world changes? For when playing a male, so you can see how the region turns into an even bigger cesspit (seeing as probably males should be exempt from licenses and tolls)

2. Have you ever thought about integration with Diary of Mine (DoM) and PAH - And You Get a Slave (Aygas) ? Aygas also tracks Slavery, when you sell slaves, and I was thinking if you go out and do the enslaving yourself, you will accelerate the process of cities becoming 'Slave Cities' in this mod. If you are exempt from tolls and licenses, you just profit off the misery of others, but if you are not... you get 'hoist by your own petard' as the saying goes

[Thoraag]

6 hours ago, 3125Balaur said:

I want to say, I really like the mod, thank you for your great work! It feels immersive, because I guess the backwater province of Skyrim would quickly devolve into rampant misogyny, corruption and slavery, especially during a civil war. But I have a few questions:
 

1. Is it possible to play with just the world changes? For when playing a male, so you can see how the region turns into an even bigger cesspit (seeing as probably males should be exempt from licenses and tolls)

2. Have you ever thought about integration with Diary of Mine (DoM) and PAH - And You Get a Slave (Aygas) ? Aygas also tracks Slavery, when you sell slaves, and I was thinking if you go out and do the enslaving yourself, you will accelerate the process of cities becoming 'Slave Cities' in this mod. If you are exempt from tolls and licenses, you just profit off the misery of others, but if you are not... you get 'hoist by your own petard' as the saying goes

thanks!

 

1. yes and no - I’m likely to merge the main lmao and world changes mods both for development convenience as well as to not take up 2 lo slots for players. HOWEVER. Every feature should be toggle able, so you can pick and choose from the mod what you want to use. If you find breaks in that theory, where you turn stuff off and it’s still happening, let me know and I’ll put it on the list to fix. I strive for customizability but testing so many possibilities alone is impossible. But let me know what you find and I’ll try to fix it! 
 

fundamentally I’d like one day for any gender combo to work, but it’s a massive writing challenge I’m not sure I have the chops for and likely some other modders will have to patch this one for it. The writing both for female and male players with the female oppression route is in the wheelhouse, not as much the inverse. 
 

2. also yes and no - I’m slowly working with someone on a world slave mod that will be called the iron consulate to introduce that slaver faction to the world, and create those exact sort of opportunities in a flexible extendable way. That being said I’m much better at writing the player sub stuff over the player dom stuff so I’m doing the ambiance and sub stuff for that mod, not the dom stuff 

[swb2025]

Couple of very quick questions:

 

1. Do NPCs have any integration with bikini laws? Never used TWOBA myself because of keyword jank so I don't know

 

2. What does the "Reported" crime do? Only just noticed it but can't find any thorough documentation anywhere.

[Thoraag]

1 hour ago, swb2025 said:

Couple of very quick questions:

 

1. Do NPCs have any integration with bikini laws? Never used TWOBA myself because of keyword jank so I don't know

 

2. What does the "Reported" crime do? Only just noticed it but can't find any thorough documentation anywhere.

1. Kinda? Bikini license sorts of falls into the same category as armor license for npcs, which how that works is basically: is armor license on? do they have armor? then roll to see if they can't afford the license. if so > clothes. if clothing license is on > roll to see if they can afford it. if not > nude. There is probably a configuration that the npcs don't perfectly keep up with, but I don't assign bikini armor outfits to any npcs, and almost certainly wont, cause its too much work for a minor weird possibility. 

2. its a very new feature and in development, currently can only happen through begging, and integrated with the also brand new description framework. Sometimes, when you refuse npcs, or as a way to get what they want, they will threaten to report you to the guards. When they do that, they will roll to see if they follow through. If they do, they take a snapshot of your description, and as they go through their normal routine, if they encounter a guard they will start a scene. They will randomly pick 1-5 of these descriptions they stored to tell the guard, and the guard will look for any actor fitting that description, whether it be you or an npc. Right now the npc route just releases, but eventually there will be scenes of npcs being blamed for what you did, with npcs receiving punishments sometimes. If the guard finds you, they will question you to determine if it was you, and if they do decide it was you, they will punish you for it. it will be expanded with the spectator system to create witnesses out of spectators who will report you for the mods crimes as well. 

[swb2025]

5 hours ago, Thoraag said:

2. its a very new feature and in development, currently can only happen through begging, and integrated with the also brand new description framework. Sometimes, when you refuse npcs, or as a way to get what they want, they will threaten to report you to the guards. When they do that, they will roll to see if they follow through. If they do, they take a snapshot of your description, and as they go through their normal routine, if they encounter a guard they will start a scene. They will randomly pick 1-5 of these descriptions they stored to tell the guard, and the guard will look for any actor fitting that description, whether it be you or an npc. Right now the npc route just releases, but eventually there will be scenes of npcs being blamed for what you did, with npcs receiving punishments sometimes. If the guard finds you, they will question you to determine if it was you, and if they do decide it was you, they will punish you for it. it will be expanded with the spectator system to create witnesses out of spectators who will report you for the mods crimes as well. 

Genuinely wild detail there. Crazy how much is in the pipeline for this mod!

 

I've also run into a bit of a snag.

 

Gist of it is that NPCs are getting stripped and collared appropriately but only in major cities (Solitude, Windhelm, Markarth, Whiterun and Riften - all working A-ok).

But they're being pretty much completely ignored everywhere else. I've got the "crimes in towns" and "crimes in settlements" boxes ticked, but everywhere I've been whether it's Riverwood, Falkreath, Dawnstar or Kynesgrove it's like they're not even getting picked up. The only one who's been working as intended is Gerdur from Riverwood, and it's almost like she was picked up by accident.

 

Has anything stealth-changed under the hood that's excluding non-major city locations for NPC enforcement since the last LL release (the one from earlier this year, not literally the most recent one that came out like last week)?

 

I'll keep testing on my end, but it can't be script bloat because it's working totally fine in major cities. It's just like an integer has been flipped from 1 to 0 everywhere else.

 

Many thanks for your time.

[Thoraag]

25 minutes ago, swb2025 said:

Genuinely wild detail there. Crazy how much is in the pipeline for this mod!

 

I've also run into a bit of a snag.

 

Gist of it is that NPCs are getting stripped and collared appropriately but only in major cities (Solitude, Windhelm, Markarth, Whiterun and Riften - all working A-ok).

But they're being pretty much completely ignored everywhere else. I've got the "crimes in towns" and "crimes in settlements" boxes ticked, but everywhere I've been whether it's Riverwood, Falkreath, Dawnstar or Kynesgrove it's like they're not even getting picked up. The only one who's been working as intended is Gerdur from Riverwood, and it's almost like she was picked up by accident.

 

Has anything stealth-changed under the hood that's excluding non-major city locations for NPC enforcement since the last LL release (the one from earlier this year, not literally the most recent one that came out like last week)?

 

I'll keep testing on my end, but it can't be script bloat because it's working totally fine in major cities. It's just like an integer has been flipped from 1 to 0 everywhere else.

 

Many thanks for your time.

Ah, yes, I should have probably noted that on the change log. I don't know if it was .4.0 or if it was a minor update after but I did update it so the NPC behaviors only happen in and directly around cities. 

There were a few issues people were encountering that caused me to make that change - 
1. Outskirt areas were somewhat inscrutible. since the only check is distance to nearest gate, some whiterun territories would be marked as solitude, or windhelm areas as whiterun, etc. it was unclear which city's rules you were under so I reeled in NPC control outside of main cities. I'm still trying to figure out what feels right. I think the issue gets resolved when i introduce small town tracking, but with that not in we are in a bit of an awkward spot with that. 
2. it was overapplying - players reported bandits and stuff observing these laws, which was not intended at all. 

I'm not sure I'm willing to swap that back yet, but I would be interested in hearing how you want it to behave so I can keep it in mind when i get to it

[thehangman625]

16 hours ago, Thoraag said:

thanks!

 

1. yes and no - I’m likely to merge the main lmao and world changes mods both for development convenience as well as to not take up 2 lo slots for players. HOWEVER. Every feature should be toggle able, so you can pick and choose from the mod what you want to use. If you find breaks in that theory, where you turn stuff off and it’s still happening, let me know and I’ll put it on the list to fix. I strive for customizability but testing so many possibilities alone is impossible. But let me know what you find and I’ll try to fix it! 
 

fundamentally I’d like one day for any gender combo to work, but it’s a massive writing challenge I’m not sure I have the chops for and likely some other modders will have to patch this one for it. The writing both for female and male players with the female oppression route is in the wheelhouse, not as much the inverse. 
 

2. also yes and no - I’m slowly working with someone on a world slave mod that will be called the iron consulate to introduce that slaver faction to the world, and create those exact sort of opportunities in a flexible extendable way. That being said I’m much better at writing the player sub stuff over the player dom stuff so I’m doing the ambiance and sub stuff for that mod, not the dom stuff 

I read about the Iron Consulate on gitlab...

 

Spoiler

The greedy merchants backed by thalmor? I hope we'll get an option to screw over the thalmor and take charge... maybe make elf-only slavery a thing! I hate those Talos-denying knife ears...

 

Anyway, when I get around to playing a male and fiddling with my list, I will post if stuff doesn't disable properly

[swb2025]

11 hours ago, Thoraag said:

Ah, yes, I should have probably noted that on the change log. I don't know if it was .4.0 or if it was a minor update after but I did update it so the NPC behaviors only happen in and directly around cities. 

Whew! Was beginning to worry that one of the billions of script extender/tweaks in my setup was out of date and I'd have to go hunting for whichever version was up to date enough for the mod but wouldn't break on 1.6.1170 (still using that version cuz Bethesda updates are never worth dealing with in the early days. Is that game version still cool for this mod's near-future btw?).

 

11 hours ago, Thoraag said:

I'm not sure I'm willing to swap that back yet, but I would be interested in hearing how you want it to behave so I can keep it in mind when i get to it

I mean I'm no modder myself, so I'm operating on pretty limited technical knowledge here, but...

Spoiler

If there's some way to tag individual settlements or locations as "Hjaalmarch" or "The Pale", etc... That strikes me as the simplest way to resolve it and replace the distance-based method while leaving bandit camps alone. I don't know if the game already has vanilla tags for something like that (imagine TownHjaalmarchHold or LocTypeDawnstar or something to that effect) or if they would need to be defined in the mod itself, but I don't know why it couldn't work, in theory. Might be a bit tedious going over every civilized area and categorizing them all, though.

 

I've brought it up before but I think long-term an OG Slaverun style whitelist that the player could access would probably be ideal if nothing more sophisticated is possible (obviously this introduces a bit of a user barrier but I think of they're neurotically fixated on this stuff enough like I am, it wouldn't be too much of a hassle if they really wanted customization beyond the default towns).

 

You mentioned being uncertain on swapping it back yet, but if I might make a case for re-enabling those features early, imperfect as they are...
 

Spoiler

 

11 hours ago, Thoraag said:

1. Outskirt areas were somewhat inscrutible. since the only check is distance to nearest gate, some whiterun territories would be marked as solitude, or windhelm areas as whiterun, etc. it was unclear which city's rules you were under so I reeled in NPC control outside of main cities.

 

I don't know if this exact example is what was happening, but take something like Rorikstead; technically meant to be part of Whiterun Hold lorewise, but closer to Solitude/Markarth as far the game/mod is probably concerned. As a settlement right on the border, the influence of the adjacent Hold's laws creeping in for an edge case like that isn't crazy immersion breaking. Especially since the player themselves is still being subject to the laws of whatever Hold the game/mod erroneously attributes to that area; which is far more of a hitch than NPC treatment (please don't disable player detection in those areas that's not what I meant fuck--

 

Plus, if the technically unintended small town/settlement border cases ended up bothering people that much, they could just leave the optional feature that's disabled by default off until the next full version that implements a better method releases, especially if these issues would only be present on the beta versions on the site where testers like me will ever think to access it.

11 hours ago, Thoraag said:

2. it was overapplying - players reported bandits and stuff observing these laws, which was not intended at all. 

Does that really have much to do with locational detection? Aren't bandits exempt from wealth checker/outfit management, 'cause if they aren't then I feel like the WC_DISTR could do that pretty easily.

 

And my final and most thought out point is that right now there are three checkboxes essentially hooked up to nothing, which is definitely not an unreasonable or churlish complaint on a beta version of a mod that isn't out yet, trust me im a doctor.

 

Edited Thursday at 10:57 AM by swb2025

[Ursur1major]

A thing I noticed regarding the Tattoos, since you're already adjusting them maybe you've noticed this but just in case you didn't.
I think the Face Tattoos, at least from begging, weren't registering with Fade Tattoos, so while my body tattoos did go away properly over time my face tattoos had to be removed manually.

 

Unrelated, but a random thought I had just now.

Is stuff perhaps biased in favour of Mage builds? Weapons don't matter to them, armour doesn't matter to them, so they really only need the Magic License and the Clothing License tends to be much cheaper than Armour and with this mod kicks in *much* later.

Mages also benefit from most of their goodies being on their "character sheet" rather than in their inventory, which prevents licenses from really interfering with it too much, a naked Mage is still capable of slinging fireballs as long as they haven't been caught violating their Magic License.

It's an issue I remember having come up over and over again, Devices take up slots preventing armour bonuses but mages are unaffected, nudity prevents armour at all but mages get their alteration bonuses either way, used to be mittens and armbinders and similar blocked the use of spells but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore???

 

So a oppressive and devious Skyrim will almost always push a player towards becoming a mage, simply due to necessity if nothing else, all your armour and weapons have been striped? I guess we're using Flames now.

 

One could of course simply make the magic license much more expensive, but that doesn't feel like a good answer.

It's probably a discussion that could be held both here and on the Licenses page, but I do feel like it could be fun trying to think up some more fun things to inconvenience mages.
But how?

 

Reinstating the limit on Shouts to Gags and preventing Magic to Devices that occupy hands would be a start.

But for this mod specifically? Any thoughts or ideas?

I've been trying to think of something specific about mages that one could target, but something that shifts the balance a bit could be lovely and fun.

[Thoraag]

14 hours ago, 3125Balaur said:

I read about the Iron Consulate on gitlab...

 

  Hide contents

The greedy merchants backed by thalmor? I hope we'll get an option to screw over the thalmor and take charge... maybe make elf-only slavery a thing! I hate those Talos-denying knife ears...

 

Anyway, when I get around to playing a male and fiddling with my list, I will post if stuff doesn't disable properly

Racism is planned as a feature long term, but it will also come with one of the later kennels (Windhelm) so that is down the road. When I explore it more, we will see what I can do.

[Thoraag]

10 hours ago, swb2025 said:

  Hide contents

If there's some way to tag individual settlements or locations as "Hjaalmarch" or "The Pale", etc... That strikes me as the simplest way to resolve it and replace the distance-based method while leaving bandit camps alone. I don't know if the game already has vanilla tags for something like that (imagine TownHjaalmarchHold or LocTypeDawnstar or something to that effect) or if they would need to be defined in the mod itself, but I don't know why it couldn't work, in theory. Might be a bit tedious going over every civilized area and categorizing them all, though.

 

I've brought it up before but I think long-term an OG Slaverun style whitelist that the player could access would probably be ideal if nothing more sophisticated is possible (obviously this introduces a bit of a user barrier but I think of they're neurotically fixated on this stuff enough like I am, it wouldn't be too much of a hassle if they really wanted customization beyond the default towns).

 

You mentioned being uncertain on swapping it back yet, but if I might make a case for re-enabling those features early, imperfect as they are...
 

  Hide contents

 

 

I don't know if this exact example is what was happening, but take something like Rorikstead; technically meant to be part of Whiterun Hold lorewise, but closer to Solitude/Markarth as far the game/mod is probably concerned. As a settlement right on the border, the influence of the adjacent Hold's laws creeping in for an edge case like that isn't crazy immersion breaking. Especially since the player themselves is still being subject to the laws of whatever Hold the game/mod erroneously attributes to that area; which is far more of a hitch than NPC treatment (please don't disable player detection in those areas that's not what I meant fuck--

 

Plus, if the technically unintended small town/settlement border cases ended up bothering people that much, they could just leave the optional feature that's disabled by default off until the next full version that implements a better method releases, especially if these issues would only be present on the beta versions on the site where testers like me will ever think to access it.

Does that really have much to do with locational detection? Aren't bandits exempt from wealth checker/outfit management, 'cause if they aren't then I feel like the WC_DISTR could do that pretty easily.

 

And my final and most thought out point is that right now there are three checkboxes essentially hooked up to nothing, which is definitely not an unreasonable or churlish complaint on a beta version of a mod that isn't out yet, trust me im a doctor.

 

The plan is basically small cities, and do checkpoints for gate behavior/toll skipping where possible. I have a plan mapped out for it, but its not a priority feature right now. When I started scaffolding it out I ruled out the LocType Location keywords because they weren't fully trustworthy, and was planning on cell selection specifically, but I am leaning more towards Location keywords these days as I have built myself better tools to help me fix skyrims quirks. No matter what I do it will be heavily customizable. 

I will be looking out for some sort of influence scaling for these small cities to determine which capital city "owns" another, but it will likely be very flexible, that i haven't thought too much about.  

I'll note I do also have bandits excluded specifically. Sometimes I overcorrect as I am working through cleaning up features, and it is more likely with features that I don't have time to work on atm. So expect changes, but not in the short term. 

[Thoraag]

4 hours ago, Ursur1major said:

A thing I noticed regarding the Tattoos, since you're already adjusting them maybe you've noticed this but just in case you didn't.
I think the Face Tattoos, at least from begging, weren't registering with Fade Tattoos, so while my body tattoos did go away properly over time my face tattoos had to be removed manually.

 

Unrelated, but a random thought I had just now.

Is stuff perhaps biased in favour of Mage builds? Weapons don't matter to them, armour doesn't matter to them, so they really only need the Magic License and the Clothing License tends to be much cheaper than Armour and with this mod kicks in *much* later.

Mages also benefit from most of their goodies being on their "character sheet" rather than in their inventory, which prevents licenses from really interfering with it too much, a naked Mage is still capable of slinging fireballs as long as they haven't been caught violating their Magic License.

It's an issue I remember having come up over and over again, Devices take up slots preventing armour bonuses but mages are unaffected, nudity prevents armour at all but mages get their alteration bonuses either way, used to be mittens and armbinders and similar blocked the use of spells but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore???

 

So a oppressive and devious Skyrim will almost always push a player towards becoming a mage, simply due to necessity if nothing else, all your armour and weapons have been striped? I guess we're using Flames now.

 

One could of course simply make the magic license much more expensive, but that doesn't feel like a good answer.

It's probably a discussion that could be held both here and on the Licenses page, but I do feel like it could be fun trying to think up some more fun things to inconvenience mages.
But how?

 

Reinstating the limit on Shouts to Gags and preventing Magic to Devices that occupy hands would be a start.

But for this mod specifically? Any thoughts or ideas?

I've been trying to think of something specific about mages that one could target, but something that shifts the balance a bit could be lovely and fun.

Ohhhh you know what, that is a good call. Fade Tattoos is a feature of Rape Tats, and since the Face Tats aren't using rape tats there they wouldn't be registered. I'll see about hooking that up, and if I can't that would be one of those things where I just leave out the extra face tats. 

So with 0.4.0.0 I introduced a new mechanic of "Suppression Collars". Right now, its exclusively done through the Escort system, cause the supporting mechanics aren't fully implemented yet. However, they drastically reduce your magic power as well as mana while they are worn. This is a feature of the magic leash, but once the leash is removed the suppression effect can stay on. There is going to be a big cost to removing that through the Court Wizard, and will be used by guards as an additional fuck you effect when you are wearing a collar and committing crimes, as well as it can be just left on you at the end of escorts. They auto fizzle after 2 days, but a magic user is going to be borderline useless with that collar on. (there will be other ways to get this removed outside of paying, both sfw and nsfw)

I also have had the plan do do a crime for shouting in public since v0.1 but I haven't been able to figure out how to make it realistic mechanically, though that day is getting extremely close with the spectator and description frameworks I am building. 

[swb2025]

2 hours ago, Thoraag said:

So expect changes, but not in the short term. 

Understandable. I'm sure it'll wind up better than it was before, regardless.

 

If it isn't too much of a hassle, though, would you be able to give me a pointer or two in the direction of reverting the change that disabled the NPC laws in smaller cities and settlements, if just for my own game? I really miss the feature, and the quirks it came with don't bother me. I'm comfortable with xEdit and can just about use the CK, but if I'd need to get into one of those script files that requires proper coding knowledge then I'm kinda boned, so don't worry if it's tied into that. 

 

I also compared against versions in the archive and the last version with it working was indeed pre 0.4, so I'd miss out on all the cool new features and QoL you've added since then, if I reverted.

 

Thanks in advance if there's anything you can tell me.

[IBAGadget]

I seem to have hit a slight snag - I can't get into Markarth.

 

running v0.4.0.3

 

Random searches turned off

Gate searches 25%

Ask guard if I can enter

told I have to be searched firsts - no search takes place. I can continue to ask to enter and the cycle repeats.
I also picked up a couple of spectators on my way up to the gate for some reason. Not sure what they are hoping to spectate?

 

Either way, gate access is not progressing through the search and then on to my payment options.

 

Debug screen does not come up in MCM, so I can't even see what the options are there.

[mcnv]

I'm not sure if it has already been mentioned but the new skyrim update has caused address library to be updated which caused errors to those who didn't update. this mod needs to be updated if anyone in the latest update of skyrim wants to play it.

[Ursur1major]

1 hour ago, mcnv said:

I'm not sure if it has already been mentioned but the new skyrim update has caused address library to be updated which caused errors to those who didn't update. this mod needs to be updated if anyone in the latest update of skyrim wants to play it.

Have you tried downloading the latest version from the special site?

On 5/1/2025 at 8:21 AM, Thoraag said:

https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/download/2026/09/01/alpha-builds/ - LATEST BUILD - LL will be updated on 0.0.1 (minor) increments, so iterative 0.0.0.1 versions with bugfixes and small updates will be exclusive to the site. Minor versions will have small completed features, Major versions will have keystone features. With all updates, make sure to refresh mod objects in the mcm, then save and reload to ensure your save stays up to date with any new properties.
https://gitlab.com/skyrim-lmao/LMAO-Mod - Source code for the mod and the site

 

It includes a Fomod that lets you split the SKSE items.

[Ursur1major]

21 hours ago, Thoraag said:

Ohhhh you know what, that is a good call. Fade Tattoos is a feature of Rape Tats, and since the Face Tats aren't using rape tats there they wouldn't be registered. I'll see about hooking that up, and if I can't that would be one of those things where I just leave out the extra face tats. 

So with 0.4.0.0 I introduced a new mechanic of "Suppression Collars". Right now, its exclusively done through the Escort system, cause the supporting mechanics aren't fully implemented yet. However, they drastically reduce your magic power as well as mana while they are worn. This is a feature of the magic leash, but once the leash is removed the suppression effect can stay on. There is going to be a big cost to removing that through the Court Wizard, and will be used by guards as an additional fuck you effect when you are wearing a collar and committing crimes, as well as it can be just left on you at the end of escorts. They auto fizzle after 2 days, but a magic user is going to be borderline useless with that collar on. (there will be other ways to get this removed outside of paying, both sfw and nsfw)

I also have had the plan do do a crime for shouting in public since v0.1 but I haven't been able to figure out how to make it realistic mechanically, though that day is getting extremely close with the spectator and description frameworks I am building. 

😮

Looking forward to it.

 

Also, some more thoughts on face tattoos, an issue if going away from Rape tattoos that suddenly came to mind is the fact that beyond the bridge to Fade Tattoos, Rape Tattoos is also the source of its own filters and tags, so without using Rape Tattoos you'd need to handle your own face "tags" and tattoo exclusions and the user would need to set them up for both Rapetats and this mod. The ideal scenario would be if the new tattoo method could still "see" RapeTats tags and exclusions.

 

Because currently beyond getting a number of tattoos that overlap I also noticed I was getting tattoos I had normally excluded because they were not meant to be applied "as tattoos/scribbles" or I had simply not wanted them in the pool.

 

[Thoraag]

20 hours ago, swb2025 said:

Understandable. I'm sure it'll wind up better than it was before, regardless.

 

If it isn't too much of a hassle, though, would you be able to give me a pointer or two in the direction of reverting the change that disabled the NPC laws in smaller cities and settlements, if just for my own game? I really miss the feature, and the quirks it came with don't bother me. I'm comfortable with xEdit and can just about use the CK, but if I'd need to get into one of those script files that requires proper coding knowledge then I'm kinda boned, so don't worry if it's tied into that. 

 

I also compared against versions in the archive and the last version with it working was indeed pre 0.4, so I'd miss out on all the cool new features and QoL you've added since then, if I reverted.

 

Thanks in advance if there's anything you can tell me.

I am confident I changed that after .4.0 so I would just grab the LL version and maybe try swapping out just the wc_x_effect pex and wc_npc_manager pex, (probably as a different mod overwriting in case there are issues) I am not 100% sure that is safe cause I don't remember if i changed the call signatures of those functions, but might be worth a shot. Otherwise, you can roll back to .4.0 but lose the begging fixes and some other new features, or just wait a few weeks for a update where i add it back in.