LMAO - Tolls and Crimes

[DonQuiWho]

26 minutes ago, Thoraag said:

I did everything I could to make the update save save. use the new version, update pandora, load in, refresh mod objects in the mcm, and save and reload, and hopefully it just works! 

No full promises, but I did do my best. 

 

Ta!

 

DQW

[LynErso666]

2 hours ago, Thoraag said:

My recommendation: If you are still interested - check back in a major version or 2 and look for a note that says I'm handling general crimes. When I do that I am going to fully hijack bounty handling behavior and will be able to prevent the bounty forcegreets. That or just finding the pieces in your modlist that are pushing bounties on you and disabling those. Or, since searches are one feature out of like 2 dozen, you could simply disable searches in lmao. But I suspect if you are getting hammered by bounties it will cause issues with other features as well. 

O no worries, I will definitely do that. I am writing my own scripts to be able to pause Sexy Adventures' bounties since its author/manager/whatrever-they-are insisted it would have to be done by you as a temporary crime pause thing. The hook I am thinking of using when I try a future version, is already implimented by you. In the MCM, you have a crime pause during events and whatnot. My thinking is to simply extend that to a check for Sexy Adventures, and pausing its crimes as well. It has been very easy to have AI compile a script for me that allows me to use a Dynamic Activation Key to stop all Sexy Adventures crimes and I tested it working, so with that out of the way, all I have to do now is make LMAO hook into this somehow.

And then I will have to do the same with Sexlab Approach as it selects guards for approach even when they're in the middle of searching me I have found out, gives me NO indicators of this other than breaking the scene, and yes it seems I have done a great job of finding mods that are just flatout incompatible with LMAO because of things like this. Luckily SLA also has a script for pausing approaches with a timeout for its own MCM options, giving me an easy way to make LMAO simply call on that at appropriate times. I would have to patch them myself, I'm already certain, with how busy you are already what with building this mod in what might be the peak of the mod's development. I will probably experiment with that further in the future. I'm just overhauling so many other mods' scripts right now it's overwhelming lol. So no worries! Good luck! I'll try it again on a future update and see what I can do then. 

Edited September 28 by LynErso666

[Thoraag]

57 minutes ago, LynErso666 said:

O no worries, I will definitely do that. I am writing my own scripts to be able to pause Sexy Adventures' bounties since its author/manager/whatrever-they-are insisted it would have to be done by you as a temporary crime pause thing. The hook I am thinking of using when I try a future version, is already implimented by you. In the MCM, you have a crime pause during events and whatnot. My thinking is to simply extend that to a check for Sexy Adventures, and pausing its crimes as well. It has been very easy to have AI compile a script for me that allows me to use a Dynamic Activation Key to stop all Sexy Adventures crimes and I tested it working, so with that out of the way, all I have to do now is make LMAO hook into this somehow.

And then I will have to do the same with Sexlab Approach as it selects guards for approach even when they're in the middle of searching me I have found out, gives me NO indicators of this other than breaking the scene, and yes it seems I have done a great job of finding mods that are just flatout incompatible with LMAO because of things like this. Luckily SLA also has a script for pausing approaches with a timeout for its own MCM options, giving me an easy way to make LMAO simply call on that at appropriate times. I would have to patch them myself, I'm already certain, with how busy you are already what with building this mod in what might be the peak of the mod's development. I will probably experiment with that further in the future. I'm just overhauling so many other mods' scripts right now it's overwhelming lol. So no worries! Good luck! I'll try it again on a future update and see what I can do then. 

Well I'll note again as well with LMAO - I did add a /interface/lmao/events.json - it is setup for mod events, globals, spells and is flexible. You just need to track down what events you need paused and you can add them directly there, then refreshing mod objects should implement them. If you find events to pause during, just let me know and i'll add em for anyone else

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, LynErso666 said:

O no worries, I will definitely do that. I am writing my own scripts to be able to pause Sexy Adventures' bounties since its author/manager/whatrever-they-are insisted it would have to be done by you as a temporary crime pause thing. The hook I am thinking of using when I try a future version, is already implimented by you. In the MCM, you have a crime pause during events and whatnot. My thinking is to simply extend that to a check for Sexy Adventures, and pausing its crimes as well. It has been very easy to have AI compile a script for me that allows me to use a Dynamic Activation Key to stop all Sexy Adventures crimes and I tested it working, so with that out of the way, all I have to do now is make LMAO hook into this somehow.

And then I will have to do the same with Sexlab Approach as it selects guards for approach even when they're in the middle of searching me I have found out, gives me NO indicators of this other than breaking the scene, and yes it seems I have done a great job of finding mods that are just flatout incompatible with LMAO because of things like this. Luckily SLA also has a script for pausing approaches with a timeout for its own MCM options, giving me an easy way to make LMAO simply call on that at appropriate times. I would have to patch them myself, I'm already certain, with how busy you are already what with building this mod in what might be the peak of the mod's development. I will probably experiment with that further in the future. I'm just overhauling so many other mods' scripts right now it's overwhelming lol. So no worries! Good luck! I'll try it again on a future update and see what I can do then. 

 

As an aside, I found that the 'Sexy Adventures' mod's crime handling completely broke a few of my games.  I posted some details about that on the SA thread a few months ago.  I don't pretend to know what you're doing/changes you plan, but you might want to have a quick look through that.  Someone else had reported the same sort of errors before, but I'm not sure if their encounters killed their games quite as comprehensively as mine were - I actually had to restart right from scratch to purge the mod completely and, much as I really like most of its content, I don't plan on using it again in its present state

 

You may well know what the issues were and plan to sort them, but I hope that's useful/helpful in some way 

 

DQW    

[BugSoup]

20 hours ago, Thoraag said:

So to clarify, you basically always want nudity to be a crime - either its a crime to be naked, or its a crime to not be naked, but never where both are tolerated? 

 

 

I think so, I wasnt sure if it was possible in the current for of the mod, if ever, I wasnt sure if I had world changes if I also needed to set anything on the "crime" section of the main mod. Im sure you have a whole list of things to work on, but if it ever crosses the paths having both never be tolerated as an option would be nice. On one hand it would help clarify if you've got the world to a state where you have to wear clothes without having to check the menu, but also could make some towns require clothes and some require nudity depending on their own laws from their slavery weight.

[Janik]

Killing slavers doesn't seem to decrease the slavery level, no matter how many I take out.

Is that feature disabled, or is there a specific method that has to take place for it to trigger?

[Thoraag]

2 hours ago, Janik said:

Killing slavers doesn't seem to decrease the slavery level, no matter how many I take out.

Is that feature disabled, or is there a specific method that has to take place for it to trigger?

Can you check to make sure you have SPID, and that the WC_DISTR.ini file exists and is there? 

The slavers get the WC_Slaver keyword, and this is set based on a bunch of factions from other mods I know, but its possible I don't have a specific mods slavers registered yet, so if you let me know where the slavers come from that would also clarify it. if you have more informative console, check your kills for that wc_slaver keyword

[Thoraag]

4 hours ago, BugSoup said:

 

 

I think so, I wasnt sure if it was possible in the current for of the mod, if ever, I wasnt sure if I had world changes if I also needed to set anything on the "crime" section of the main mod. Im sure you have a whole list of things to work on, but if it ever crosses the paths having both never be tolerated as an option would be nice. On one hand it would help clarify if you've got the world to a state where you have to wear clothes without having to check the menu, but also could make some towns require clothes and some require nudity depending on their own laws from their slavery weight.

So basically how it works, at least by default is: 

Nudity crime is on. When there is a clothing or armor license in place, nudity crime automatically drops off. This is because the clothing license may leave the player without any means to cloth themselves, and I don't want to criminalize that while making them pay, its just a cause for a constant cycle of annoyance. 

When you hit the threshold (by default in slave level), nudity crime gets turned back on and inverted, it is now illegal to be clothed, even with a license. 
There is additionally a setting for the slave level when this inverted nudity crime gets turned off. This is to make the rule sticky, so if it turns on you can't just run out and kill a bandit or something and immediately the law is lifted. Once this threshold is met, the nudity crime is turned off, you can wear whatever. 

I never have it turn back on the nudity law requiring you to be dressed - its something I could theoretically do, but it would have to remain capped by the clothing law. I also don't feel like a city that forced women to be naked would ever go back to forcing them to be dressed, so I haven't bothered doing it mostly because of that. 

This loop can happen as many times as you make it happen.


You can also mark cities as exempt from the nudity required laws entirely but I don't have it so you can force a town to require clothes. I'll think about doing that. No promises in the short term but possible. those are already a bit of a logic mess lol

 

[BugSoup]

1 hour ago, Thoraag said:

So basically how it works, at least by default is: 

Nudity crime is on. When there is a clothing or armor license in place, nudity crime automatically drops off. This is because the clothing license may leave the player without any means to cloth themselves, and I don't want to criminalize that while making them pay, its just a cause for a constant cycle of annoyance. 

When you hit the threshold (by default in slave level), nudity crime gets turned back on and inverted, it is now illegal to be clothed, even with a license. 
There is additionally a setting for the slave level when this inverted nudity crime gets turned off. This is to make the rule sticky, so if it turns on you can't just run out and kill a bandit or something and immediately the law is lifted. Once this threshold is met, the nudity crime is turned off, you can wear whatever. 

I never have it turn back on the nudity law requiring you to be dressed - its something I could theoretically do, but it would have to remain capped by the clothing law. I also don't feel like a city that forced women to be naked would ever go back to forcing them to be dressed, so I haven't bothered doing it mostly because of that. 

This loop can happen as many times as you make it happen.


You can also mark cities as exempt from the nudity required laws entirely but I don't have it so you can force a town to require clothes. I'll think about doing that. No promises in the short term but possible. those are already a bit of a logic mess lol

 

I see, well, until then the mod itself is fun, I hope to one day see when it will be possible to have the cities switch back and forth, I could see it as more of a fighting back for respect or something. Also, as a side note, I believe, atleast on my end, if Nudity is a crime, and a city requires nudity, when it isnt aa global requirement, the guards seem to get mad at you for being nude and put clothes on you? I'll have to test more when I get a chance, maybe tomorrow, not sure, it could just be my own fault.

[Thoraag]

59 minutes ago, BugSoup said:

I see, well, until then the mod itself is fun, I hope to one day see when it will be possible to have the cities switch back and forth, I could see it as more of a fighting back for respect or something. Also, as a side note, I believe, atleast on my end, if Nudity is a crime, and a city requires nudity, when it isnt aa global requirement, the guards seem to get mad at you for being nude and put clothes on you? I'll have to test more when I get a chance, maybe tomorrow, not sure, it could just be my own fault.

I'll almost certainly polish that up in an upcoming patch. Though tbh im rethinking world changes as a seperate mod, so it might wait till i consolidate, cause when I do that i'll also be reworking how many of the behaviors are handled. I'd also ultimately to give you some negotiating ability with the jarl/steward to try to get laws changed via gameplay rather than just mcm fussiness. but that is very long term. 

ohhhhh I can see that happening potentially, i'll look at the dialogue conditions there, I may not have adjusted for that case. I'll look into that and adjust for the next update if I see it. 

Edited September 29 by Thoraag

[swb2025]

Congrats on the new version release and having world-first implementation of the groundbreaking new leashing framework, previously thought impossible by scientists and skeptics everywhere!

 

I will now ask more tedious small-fry questions completely unrelated to either of them. Fair warning I've just booted up Skyrim again for the first time in months specifically to test this version, so feel free to shoot it all down if anything I'm talking about is stupid or already accounted for.

 

Also S C O P E C R E E P ahead.

 

 

Spoiler

1. Is it technically possible (just possible, not necessarily likely) through SPID magic or scripted LL injections, to alter guard gender distribution without completely borking compatibility with levelled list mods? It'd be interesting to tie something like that to slave levels and see female guards get phased out as time goes on. I know your current policy on female guards is more or less to let the user just get rid of them from the get go, but a lot of mods that do that are themselves quite invasive compatibility wise and tend to boil it down to either/or, not to mention cutting out a lot of content from adjacent stuff like Sexist Guards where m/f guards behave differently while still acknowledging the situation. It'd be another cool but subtle way to see how the World Changes (eh, eh) as time goes on.

 

Obviously if it's totally fucking bunk then disregard.

 

--

 

2. Completely hypothetical question just to pick your brains a bit here, but what are your thoughts on faction acknowledgement later down the line? (Actual in-game factions like Companions or the College, that is). Right now all NPCs are kind of governed the same based on the wealth checking system (which is still way more advanced and nuanced than anything else out there, aside from maybe SES2 in one regard, but we'll get to that).

 

I'm mainly thinking about how they'd interact with the laws - not changing dialogue or locations or ai packages for specific NPCs or any Slaverun-esque whackiness - but rather small scale stuff that could probably be accomplished with .ini files or SPID distribution and the like. Companions members might be specifically exempt (for a while at least, slave level and all that), and I imagine the Thieves' Guild members wouldn't give a shit about licenses/collar/clothing laws going on outside the Ragged Flagon, or how a super independent and extremely powerful faction like the College would just laugh at the backwards hick Nords and point at their library full of nukes.

 

OG Slaverun had a location .json that kind of accounted for this kind of stuff, but it was obviously completely binary in terms of who it effected and when, devoid of the nuance of this mod's systems. SES2 had a more specific NPC based allocation system, but was once again just yes/no, and had no ticking clock element.

 

Edited October 1 by swb2025

[Thoraag]

34 minutes ago, swb2025 said:

Congrats on the new version release and having world-first implementation of the groundbreaking new leashing framework, previously thought impossible by scientists and skeptics everywhere!

Ha I think a few people beat me to the punch but I was actually working on it before leash framework was even announced. There is a mostly working collar only version out there that reacted similar, but the leash framework just makes it 1000x better and more real feeling. Lots more coming on that as well.
 

Quote

1. Is it technically possible (just possible, not necessarily likely) through SPID magic or scripted LL injections, to alter guard gender distribution without completely borking compatibility with levelled list mods? It'd be interesting to tie something like that to slave levels and see female guards get phased out as time goes on. I know your current policy on female guards is more or less to let the user just get rid of them from the get go, but a lot of mods that do that are themselves quite invasive compatibility wise and tend to boil it down to either/or, not to mention cutting out a lot of content from adjacent stuff like Sexist Guards where m/f guards behave differently while still acknowledging the situation. It'd be another cool but subtle way to see how the World Changes (eh, eh) as time goes on.

Obviously if it's totally fucking bunk then disregard.

 

Possible for sure, not a priority at the moment. It feels like one of those button up features I'll eventually throw in one day when im working on something adjacent to it.
 

Quote

 

2. Completely hypothetical question just to pick your brains a bit here, but what are your thoughts on faction acknowledgement later down the line? (Actual in-game factions like Companions or the College, that is). Right now all NPCs are kind of governed the same based on the wealth checking system (which is still way more advanced and nuanced than anything else out there, aside from maybe SES2 in one regard, but we'll get to that).

 

I'm mainly thinking about how they'd interact with the laws - not changing dialogue or locations or ai packages for specific NPCs or any Slaverun-esque whackiness - but rather small scale stuff that could probably be accomplished with .ini files or SPID distribution and the like. Companions members might be specifically exempt (for a while at least, slave level and all that), and I imagine the Thieves' Guild members wouldn't give a shit about licenses/collar/clothing laws going on outside the Ragged Flagon, or how a super independent and extremely powerful faction like the College would just laugh at the backwards hick Nords and point at their library full of nukes.

 

OG Slaverun had a location .json that kind of accounted for this kind of stuff, but it was obviously completely binary in terms of who it effected and when, devoid of the nuance of this mod's systems. SES2 had a more specific NPC based allocation system, but was once again just yes/no, and had no ticking clock element.

 

I want to long term lean into the politics of all of it, but while I still have features to build in my never stopping scope expansion, it probably won't be prioritized. That being said, I don't think I'd give exceptions to the companions or the thieves guild or anything. Far from it. NPC world changes has been a big focus lately with a lot of updates to improve the way the world reacts to it, and I have in the back of my mind to do random npc events where particularly uppity female npcs might get paraded around naked or something. I could see companions, college students, thieves guild npcs all bearing something like this. 

Out of any of those the college would be what I first target - With the new suppression collars in the mod its a perfect application to keep the female mages under control. 

[Lizardmanzzz]

 

I keep getting this error on the newest version? 

I have all the required stuff downloaded and tripled checked they were up to date

[Thoraag]

3 minutes ago, Lizardmanzzz said:

 

I keep getting this error on the newest version? 

I have all the required stuff downloaded and tripled checked they were up to date

Grab the latest from the site, it has a fomod that lets you disable the skse extensions - they are very lightly used right now and you likely won't notice a difference without them. I'm guessing you are like 1.5.97 or something? 

[Lizardmanzzz]

10 minutes ago, Thoraag said:

Grab the latest from the site, it has a fomod that lets you disable the skse extensions - they are very lightly used right now and you likely won't notice a difference without them. I'm guessing you are like 1.5.97 or something? 

 

Game version? Im 1.7.140

[Lizardmanzzz]

I will say turning off the SKSE did fix it so thank you

[swb2025]

On 10/1/2026 at 5:50 AM, Thoraag said:

NPC world changes has been a big focus lately with a lot of updates to improve the way the world reacts to it

Okay I have to ask for deets here. Any word on what's cooking in this department? NPC world changes that alter vanilla are one of my favourite parts of the mod so that's exciting to hear.

 

Rest of my post is in a spoiler below cuz it's all lore fluff and ain't no one wanna read that.

Spoiler

 

On 10/1/2026 at 5:50 AM, Thoraag said:

That being said, I don't think I'd give exceptions to the companions or the thieves guild or anything. Far from it.  [...] I could see companions, college students, thieves guild npcs all bearing something like this. 

 

What kind of vision do you have for the Thieves Guild in particular here? Sorry if I'm overthinking this but it's something that no other mod in this vein has ever resolved with much elegance and I've always wanted to see a solution to it. The Companions admittedly are just dudes in armor and vastly outnumbered, College you could work the anti-magic tech in like you said (Faralda/Savos and the other heavy hitters were all taking a nap when the guards wandered over that very exposed bridge with the collars) and everyone thinks the Dark Brotherhood are dead so who cares about them.

 

Thieves' Guild I think would be pretty tricky to implement without pretty much dismantling the organisation, narratively and maybe even mechanically (are Vex and Ton just going to be in jail forever?) NPC events like you mentioned would be cool, but sooner or later they're going back to their hideout where they can do and equip whatever they want. And what about when the really crazy shit like nudity/collar/free use laws kick in? Would there somehow be a city guard presence in the Ragged Flagon or something? I think it would kind of amount to an exception in all but name no matter which way you slice it, but curious to hear what you think.

 

[Ursur1major]

0.4.0.1

Potentially critical bug detected if it's not just on my end.

After having played for a number of hours I noticed that the internal tolls had sometimes stopped working.

And that my Console was getting spammed by this:

Multiple lines every second.

It only happens when I'm inside a city, and had happened in multiple cities, but once it had started tolls seem to break, both internally and externally, for a while.

Turning tolls off and on again while in a city did not stop spam or fix the tolls.

I was thinking it had to do with the economy, but at the very least in my quick test turning off LMAOs economy module didn't do anything about it, it kept spamming my console and tolls remained broken until having left the area, external tolls seem to work after traveling away and then returning though.

I have no memory of ever seeing anything like this happening in previous versions.

Restarting the game also didn't stop the spam or fix the tolls while inside the city once it had started.

 

It doesn't happen immediately upon entering a city, but the moment slave levels are updated the spam starts.

I could see this after having slept a night inside the city and opening up the console the moment I woke up, can't get a screenshot since I can't scroll up the console due to the spam but I saw about 4 or so lines about updating slave levels, and then the spam immediately started.

Manually changing slave level didn't seem to do anything during my testing, but maybe if I had waited a bit longer for a tick.

 

And in my Papyrus Log I'm seeing this line repeating regularly:

"Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed to function WC_NPC_Cooldown_Script.OnRecheck(string EventName,string strArg,float numArg,Form sender). Expected 4, got 0 instead!. "

Which is one of the scripts from this mod.

LMAO does not look like it's being overwritten by anything according to my mod manager.

 

Can anyone else replicate?

[Thoraag]

1 hour ago, Ursur1major said:

0.4.0.1

Potentially critical bug detected if it's not just on my end.

After having played for a number of hours I noticed that the internal tolls had sometimes stopped working.

And that my Console was getting spammed by this:

Multiple lines every second.

It only happens when I'm inside a city, and had happened in multiple cities, but once it had started tolls seem to break, both internally and externally, for a while.

Turning tolls off and on again while in a city did not stop spam or fix the tolls.

I was thinking it had to do with the economy, but at the very least in my quick test turning off LMAOs economy module didn't do anything about it, it kept spamming my console and tolls remained broken until having left the area, external tolls seem to work after traveling away and then returning though.

I have no memory of ever seeing anything like this happening in previous versions.

Restarting the game also didn't stop the spam or fix the tolls while inside the city once it had started.

 

It doesn't happen immediately upon entering a city, but the moment slave levels are updated the spam starts.

I could see this after having slept a night inside the city and opening up the console the moment I woke up, can't get a screenshot since I can't scroll up the console due to the spam but I saw about 4 or so lines about updating slave levels, and then the spam immediately started.

Manually changing slave level didn't seem to do anything during my testing, but maybe if I had waited a bit longer for a tick.

 

And in my Papyrus Log I'm seeing this line repeating regularly:

"Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed to function WC_NPC_Cooldown_Script.OnRecheck(string EventName,string strArg,float numArg,Form sender). Expected 4, got 0 instead!. "

Which is one of the scripts from this mod.

LMAO does not look like it's being overwritten by anything according to my mod manager.

 

Can anyone else replicate?

Found both of those issues, it will be in the next patch sometime this weekend. 

[Thoraag]

4 hours ago, swb2025 said:

Okay I have to ask for deets here. Any word on what's cooking in this department? NPC world changes that alter vanilla are one of my favourite parts of the mod so that's exciting to hear.

 

Rest of my post is in a spoiler below cuz it's all lore fluff and ain't no one wanna read that.

  Hide contents

What kind of vision do you have for the Thieves Guild in particular here? Sorry if I'm overthinking this but it's something that no other mod in this vein has ever resolved with much elegance and I've always wanted to see a solution to it. The Companions admittedly are just dudes in armor and vastly outnumbered, College you could work the anti-magic tech in like you said (Faralda/Savos and the other heavy hitters were all taking a nap when the guards wandered over that very exposed bridge with the collars) and everyone thinks the Dark Brotherhood are dead so who cares about them.

 

Thieves' Guild I think would be pretty tricky to implement without pretty much dismantling the organisation, narratively and maybe even mechanically (are Vex and Ton just going to be in jail forever?) NPC events like you mentioned would be cool, but sooner or later they're going back to their hideout where they can do and equip whatever they want. And what about when the really crazy shit like nudity/collar/free use laws kick in? Would there somehow be a city guard presence in the Ragged Flagon or something? I think it would kind of amount to an exception in all but name no matter which way you slice it, but curious to hear what you think.

 

 

Well I'll note that while it is an exciting feature, the ambiance stuff like this always takes a back burner to things that can effect the player, so the feature growth around the NPC stuff is relatively slow, but steadily growing. With .4 there have been a lot of updates to how npcs handle and they feel more part of the world. With the update im working on now, it should improve begging a lot and move spectator behavior from an escort exclusive thing to something even npcs can end up experiencing, which I think will make the behavior feel more part of the world and less player focused. 

As for specifics on the thieves guild, I don't really have any, and I don't know if long term as I built I'll be taken to doing something thieves guild specific.

What I will say is while there are rules and laws that get implemented, the enforcement wing is based basically entirely on the guards, who are not intended to be hyper competent or restrictive, but are just idiots exploiting the irresponsible amount of power they have been given. 

Because of that I don't likely see a world where I add guards to the ragged flagon or anything. Ideally I polish it up so public places like inns still largely observe nudity laws and such, but places like the ragged flagon, or npc homes and such npcs get to just kind of do their thing. 

THAT BEING SAID as the features get shored up and I start moving onto story events I will be looking for opportunities to create scenes and events in various locations and with npcs that show that you as the player aren't really getting special treatment. So I think something like a raid on the ragged flagon, maybe collecting the female members of the guild and parading them around town naked would be in the cards. Ultimately there is a fine line to walk, cause injecting new stuff into the content is great, but the more i mess with behaviors, the more likely I am to introduce compatibilities

that was all probably more confusing than it was before, but there are a lot of things to work on till i really start to wrap my mind around how to handle those side factions. 

[blahity]

I think for events that use vanilla NPCs (like parading a female through town or public punishments) it might be wiser to use "stunt doubles"

[Garfieldcat]

Love all the new stuff going on in here and really excited to have read the upcoming mine  
One question though. How do we trigger for example the new parade? When I get caught breaking the rules it's always: now you either pay or end up in jail; 
and since I'm often without the gold, I end up in jail and that's pretty much it.

[swb2025]

13 hours ago, Thoraag said:

that was all probably more confusing than it was before,

Nope, that's totally what I was getting at. Thanks for the info!

 

13 hours ago, Thoraag said:

Ideally I polish it up so public places like inns still largely observe nudity laws and such, but places like the ragged flagon, or npc homes and such npcs get to just kind of do their thing. 

That's the big one for me. Ferreting out all the little details about what happens where and how it's supposed to fit into the world in a way that makes sense. If I had a .json wired up to separate places where "NPCs comply" vs "NPCs ignore" (or even different classes of NPCs complying vs ignoring I'm such a nerd) I'd do that shit myself, but even that is obviously tied up in a million other things like outfit storage and scripting mumbo jumbo that's all well beyond my grasp, even before we start talking about stuff like scenes.

 

--

 

Speaking of distribution files, one last question(s) then I'll leave you alone.

 

I noticed in the WC distribution .ini that there are two categories of "Faction = WC_Rich_Faction"

The first of them contains all the NPCs that are scheduled to be affected by the laws last (wealthy merchants who can afford the licenses and stuff), and the other one has all the NPCs that are qualified as immune (Jarl's Court mostly).

 

Even though the faction names are identical, the mod can obviously distinguish them well enough - but is it alright on my end to change the name of the 'immune' faction to something different like WC_Immune_Faction so it's easier to move NPCs around by myself without getting confused, or will that break something?

 

Now that I think about it, are there any ideas about eventually encompassing the 'immune' NPCs in the laws later on or is that basically a drawn line that's not worth expanding on for tech/scope reasons?

 

Also finding it very funny that there's a separate shithead spectator category populated exclusively by Nazeem.

[Thoraag]

8 hours ago, Garfieldcat said:

Love all the new stuff going on in here and really excited to have read the upcoming mine  
One question though. How do we trigger for example the new parade? When I get caught breaking the rules it's always: now you either pay or end up in jail; 
and since I'm often without the gold, I end up in jail and that's pretty much it.

So with the escort punishments (just march of shame for now, but not for long) they are only going to fire if you are already wearing a collar (ZAZ or DD). However, this is obviously not the best situation for it anyway cause not everyone is going to be using one of those 2 mods, AND there is definitely a logic issue I introduced with this (you need to wear a collar for like 8 hours for that to trigger. 

I will be soon be including physical leashes now that the leash framework has made some collarless physical leashes, which will work well with the system as an always available option, maybe with some option limits idk. Trying to figure that out. 

I also am looking into how to make the escort punishments get picked more generally (the punishments picking is very rudimentary, i need to add weights and stuff). If you just want to test it, you can fire it most consistently by enabling debug mode, wearing a collar, and using the action wheel to fire it. It does get picked up in normal gameplay but the cirumstances are admittedly too fussy right now.

[Thoraag]

5 hours ago, swb2025 said:

Nope, that's totally what I was getting at. Thanks for the info!

 

That's the big one for me. Ferreting out all the little details about what happens where and how it's supposed to fit into the world in a way that makes sense. If I had a .json wired up to separate places where "NPCs comply" vs "NPCs ignore" (or even different classes of NPCs complying vs ignoring I'm such a nerd) I'd do that shit myself, but even that is obviously tied up in a million other things like outfit storage and scripting mumbo jumbo that's all well beyond my grasp, even before we start talking about stuff like scenes.

 

--

 

Speaking of distribution files, one last question(s) then I'll leave you alone.

 

I noticed in the WC distribution .ini that there are two categories of "Faction = WC_Rich_Faction"

The first of them contains all the NPCs that are scheduled to be affected by the laws last (wealthy merchants who can afford the licenses and stuff), and the other one has all the NPCs that are qualified as immune (Jarl's Court mostly).

 

Even though the faction names are identical, the mod can obviously distinguish them well enough - but is it alright on my end to change the name of the 'immune' faction to something different like WC_Immune_Faction so it's easier to move NPCs around by myself without getting confused, or will that break something?

 

Now that I think about it, are there any ideas about eventually encompassing the 'immune' NPCs in the laws later on or is that basically a drawn line that's not worth expanding on for tech/scope reasons?

 

Also finding it very funny that there's a separate shithead spectator category populated exclusively by Nazeem.

Yeah i'll look into location tagging in a minor version or 2, cause right now the npc rules basically just go on in the city broadly, but no nuance is set up yet for the interiors that it would effect. 

with the wc_rich_faction lines - it is the same faction and behaves the same. I don't remember exactly why I did it that way - I think maybe it was it kind of filters left to right so if I had my keywords before all the faction lines a lot of the faction members were left out. 

Changing the faction names as you described will not work out - Rich is not immune. The wealth keywords are for other features in the mod. For the laws it doesn't mean the npcs are excluded from the laws, its how they behave under those laws. For example, collar exemption. The payer can pay to avoid wearing a collar, why wouldn't the npcs? Poor ones will wear collars almost immediately, not being able to afford it. Common ones will roll daily, chances increasing day by day. Rich people will avoid it entirely. 

The various "Exempt" factions are the ones that are actually immune. For your idea - changing faction names is a bad idea and won't work how you hope. I read for those factions so if you change the name they simply wont work. moving things around in the factions (like cutting the jarls out of exempt for instance) is totally fine though, and the point of the DISTR file. I just set up the npcs based on how I thought makes the most sense for my game, but its not been iterated on enough, and my tastes aren't everyones.

I have SOME story ideas for SOME of the immune NPCs, but very long term, and maybe never happening. The Immune NPCs are set for a reason. Example: Elisef is the queen or whatever, a position of great power. In Skyrim proper, she is ruling and such. Stripping her naked with no context doesn't make sense, especially as the other npcs still defer to her. If I were to change that, I would want to really change that and make that fit, but that is a mammoth story change undertaking that inheritely has compatibility issues.

And yeah lol more npcs can become shitheads, and im sure there are some that should be in the list immediately, but much of my testing is in whiterun and Nazeem I figured was a safe choice.