[QUERY] What is the exact functionality of ArmorClothing keyword and the difference from ClothingBody?

[belegost]

I've seen many mods that use both. On both actual armor and clothing pieces of apparel. Doesn't seem like there's much distinction. Same goes for any derivative keywords, ArmorFeet/ClothingFeet, ArmorGauntlets/ClothingHands, etc.

Since I convert a lot of modded clothing from Light Armor into Clothing, for purpose of mage characters, I wonder if I should remove all ArmorXxx keywords and just replace them with ClothingXxx. Why? Because I like my keywords in order and as little as necessary.

 

But I've also seen vanilla pieces of apparel categorised as Clothing that use both keywords, so that got me thinking. Because if ultimately the distinction is made in BOD2\Armor Type, what is the purpose and the distinction between the two?

Edited September 2, 2024 by belegost

[Qviddhartha]

ArmorClothing marks it as something meant to be worn but that does not count as light or heavy armor.

 

ClothingBody marks it as covering the body, by opposition to the head, hands or feet.

 

The general convension is that an Actor is treated as "naked" if he is wearing no ClothingBody nor ArmorCuirass.

 

Objects of type "Armor" should have exactly one of ArmorClothing, ArmorLight, ArmorHeavy or Jewelry. Well... jewelry is sometimes mixed with one of the others.

 

If you have ArmorClothing, you should also have one or more of the Clothing* keywords, or Jewelry.  If you have ArmorLight or Armor Heavy, you should also have one or more of the ArmorHelmet/Cuirass/Gauntlets/Boots keywords.

 

In general, use the keywords to signal to quests how they should treat the actor, and use slots to manage incompatibilities/conflicts (items that can't be worn jointly).

[Hex Bolt]

12 minutes ago, belegost said:

Doesn't seem like there's much distinction.

ArmorClothing is for any cloth apparel, regardless of slot.  ClothingBody is for the body slot only.  Skyrim's convention is to use both keywords for the applicable item (ArmorClothing and ClothingBody for robes).

 

It's best to follow the convention because mods that check keywords will expect them.  Checking ArmorClothing would be less commonly used, but testing for ArmorHeavy or ArmorLight is frequently done to see if the character is wearing any armor of that type, not caring about which slot it's in.

[NymphoElf]

The similarity in name is understandably confusing, but as stated above, one is for the Armor Type and one is for Body Slot. Though seemingly redundant at first glance, they're necessary distinctions.

[belegost]

28 minutes ago, NymphoElf said:

The similarity in name is understandably confusing, but as stated above, one is for the Armor Type and one is for Body Slot. Though seemingly redundant at first glance, they're necessary distinctions.

Yeah, that makes sense now that I had it properly explained. Means I'll have to go back and free-check every single apparel-related esp I modified in my current load order... not looking forward to that.

I am also trying to figure out how Sunhelm distinguishes how much, if at all, Warmth Rating a given piece provides. Seems that it relies on those exact vanilla keywords, in contrast to Frostfall which had its own set of keywords.

 

Thank you @pfB6cs and @Hex Bolt that was informative. Much appreciated.

[NymphoElf]

14 minutes ago, belegost said:

I am also trying to figure out how Sunhelm distinguishes how much, if at all, Warmth Rating a given piece provides. Seems that it relies on those exact vanilla keywords, in contrast to Frostfall which had its own set of keywords.

 

It's possible they're using a similar method to Frostfall. The vanilla keywords are only specific enough for the original (LE) features, so I would be surprised if based strictly off those. My best guess is that it's part of a generalized check before going more in-depth. It's also possible they're using a variation of what the CC Survival Mode does.

 

It looks like the vast majority of their scripts are probably packed into their BSA file, so if you want to analyze those you'll have to extract the BSA file first.

Edited September 2, 2024 by NymphoElf

[belegost]

14 hours ago, NymphoElf said:

 

It's possible they're using a similar method to Frostfall. The vanilla keywords are only specific enough for the original (LE) features, so I would be surprised if based strictly off those. My best guess is that it's part of a generalized check before going more in-depth. It's also possible they're using a variation of what the CC Survival Mode does.

 

It looks like the vast majority of their scripts are probably packed into their BSA file, so if you want to analyze those you'll have to extract the BSA file first.

Frostfall had its own set of keywords and the ability to edit warmth/coverage through MCM if you didn't want to dabble in xEdit. I should know, I've been using it for years until relatively recently.

 

Sunhelm, as much as I can tell from observation, seems to rely on vanilla keywords to determine Warmth Rating (there is no coverage).

Example:

two different sets of gloves from two different mods had different rating, despite being nearly identical in almost everything. Except one set had ClothingBody and the other ClothingHands keyword. The former was warmer.

Another example:

Campfire cloaks had no warmth rating at all. Analysing them in xEdit revealed they did not have any ClothingXxx keywords. After adding relevant keyword they suddenly gained it.

 

Above examples and the explanations from this thread led me to conclusion that Sunhelm appears to look for those specific keywords. It may do more, but that is sufficient for my needs for the moment.

 

Analysing scripts is above my paygrade. I have repeatedly said in this forum and I will say again: the only time I have ever written a script was over 30 years ago, when during a computer class at school, I copied something called HELLO WORLD written on blackboard with white chalk (yes, blackbord and chalk in "computer class". We were not into markers and whiteboard era yet) into my school notebook. A paper notebook. With a pen. To this day I have no idea how it works. Might as well be black fucking magic.

Edited September 3, 2024 by belegost

[NymphoElf]

11 hours ago, belegost said:

Analysing scripts is above my paygrade. I have repeatedly said in this forum and I will say again: the only time I have ever written a script was over 30 years ago, when during a computer class at school, I copied something called HELLO WORLD written on blackboard with white chalk (yes, blackbord and chalk in "computer class". We were not into markers and whiteboard era yet) into my school notebook. A paper notebook. With a pen. To this day I have no idea how it works. Might as well be black fucking magic.

 

I see. Didn't mean to upset you or anything. I've never seen any of your comments mentioning that.

 

I know not everyone has that knowledge/understanding, I just didn't want to assume that you didn't. Plus, believe it or not, the fact you have some kind of understanding of Keywords and such means you actually know more about programming/scripts than you think you do.

 

Don't misunderstand, I'm certainly not claiming you can sit down and write one this second, but Keywords (just as an example) are merely a glorified version of a Variable that the game's code looks for under certain conditions. Variables are very important and fundamental parts of writing and reading code. So IF you did try to read the scripts, you might at least be able to pick out where that keyword is being used. You probably won't know HOW it's being used, simply based on how little you claim to know, but you'll at least know that it IS being used (assuming the code is written sensibly, which sadly isn't always the case).

 

Just a little food for thought. Not trying to push you to do or not do anything. I just like trying to help people have a better understanding of things. Maybe I succeeded, maybe I didn't.

 

Either way, I hope you can get your mod list to the way you want it! Good luck!

[belegost]

7 hours ago, NymphoElf said:

the fact you have some kind of understanding of Keywords and such means you actually know more about programming/scripts than you think you do.

Nah, I just know Excel. xEdit is basically a horizontal spreadsheet. Doesn't mean I understand how it works.

 

No offense taken btw. What I wrote is an anecdote I always like to bring up every time someone suggests I do anything remotely related scripting. It's a hobby.

[belegost]

On 9/2/2024 at 7:28 PM, Qviddhartha said:

ArmorClothing marks it as something meant to be worn but that does not count as light or heavy armor.

 

ClothingBody marks it as covering the body, by opposition to the head, hands or feet.

 

The general convension is that an Actor is treated as "naked" if he is wearing no ClothingBody nor ArmorCuirass.

 

Objects of type "Armor" should have exactly one of ArmorClothing, ArmorLight, ArmorHeavy or Jewelry. Well... jewelry is sometimes mixed with one of the others.

 

If you have ArmorClothing, you should also have one or more of the Clothing* keywords, or Jewelry.  If you have ArmorLight or Armor Heavy, you should also have one or more of the ArmorHelmet/Cuirass/Gauntlets/Boots keywords.

 

In general, use the keywords to signal to quests how they should treat the actor, and use slots to manage incompatibilities/conflicts (items that can't be worn jointly).

I should have this printed somewhere. Spent two days looking through my own threads to find this comment and remind myself how it works.

 

You sir/madam/Apache helicopter, are awesome for explaining it in such a simple and clear manner.

 

And since I jumped to AE relatively recently I noticed it seems to have extra keywords: ClothingNecklace, ClothingCirclet and ClothingRing.

I am quite certain some of those are new, but I can't tell now which.

Edited November 5, 2025 by belegost

[belegost]

I have another question though:

 

What does ArmorMaterialXXX keyword actually control?

 

For example:

I have a set of light armor that can be crafted just with leather and leather strips and the tempering recipe also requires just a piece of leather. Yet the armor has ArmorMaterialDaedric keyword attached by the author. Does this keyword control how good the tempering is?

 

I know that Make Temperable xEdt script uses material keyword to assign a relevant ingot/piece of leather when creating a recipe, but I have not seen any other uses that would be obvious to me.

Edited November 5, 2025 by belegost

[Qviddhartha]

The ArmorMaterial* keywords affect tempering and related perks.  They are tested in the various tempering recipes;  different keywords will result in different recipes being used.  You can't temper an item if it does not include an ArmorMaterial* keyword, because all recipes require one keyword or another.  Otherwise, there is no direct relationship with the items consumed by the recipe.

 

I don't know how things work (or not work) if you use multiple materials on the same object.  I assume the game will arbitrarily choose one applicable recipe.

 

[belegost]

23 minutes ago, Qviddhartha said:

The ArmorMaterial* keywords affect tempering and related perks

So even though the armor can be tempered with just a piece of leather, if I had Daedric Smithing perk (or an equivalent from say, Ordinator), the tempering would be much better?

 

That makes sense. Thank you.

[ghastley]

44 minutes ago, belegost said:

So even though the armor can be tempered with just a piece of leather, if I had Daedric Smithing perk (or an equivalent from say, Ordinator), the tempering would be much better?

 

That makes sense. Thank you.

It's whether you can make the item, as well as how well you temper it. If the item has ArmorMaterialDaedric keyword, you need the Daedric perk to make it. Any item can be improved, and enough skill can substitute for the perk (hence the use for the Fortify Smithing potions).

[belegost]

1 hour ago, ghastley said:

If the item has ArmorMaterialDaedric keyword, you need the Daedric perk to make it.

No you don't.

This is controlled by a recipe itself, by setting a Condition Subject.HasPerk.

If that was true, you wouldn't even be able to temper steel weapons without taking Steel Smithing perk.

Edited November 5, 2025 by belegost

[Just Don't]

ArmorMaterial keywords are used in crafting station categories. And also in some vanilla perks such as Matching Set.

[Andy14]

Those using SkyUI might not know this.

But Skyrim's crafting menu has categories like Leather, Ebony, Orcish, etc.

And keywords are used to display armor/clothing and weapons in the correct categories.

Those with SkyUI installed no longer have categories in the crafting menu.😉

[belegost]

10 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Those using SkyUI might not know this.

But Skyrim's crafting menu has categories like Leather, Ebony, Orcish, etc.

And keywords are used to display armor/clothing and weapons in the correct categories.

Those with SkyUI installed no longer have categories in the crafting menu.😉

I'll take SkyUI over categories any day. 

 

Quite recently, I installed Skyrim on a new PC. I thought "what the heck, let's play a bit just plain vanilla and see how well it holds. No mods, just the original".

 

Half an hour later and SkyUI was the first thing I installed. By Talos the Almighty, vanilla UI is horrible. 

Edited November 8, 2025 by belegost

[Andy14]

5 hours ago, belegost said:

I'll take SkyUI over categories any day. 

 

Quite recently, I installed Skyrim on a new PC. I thought "what the heck, let's play a bit just plain vanilla and see how well it holds. No mods, just the original".

 

Half an hour later and SkyUI was the first thing I installed. By Talos the Almighty, vanilla UI is horrible. 

I also play with SkyUI – everyone does.

I only answered the question about the ArmorMaterial keyword because that -> The ArmorMaterial* keywords affect tempering and related perks <- is wrong.😉

[belegost]

2 hours ago, Andy14 said:

everyone does

Not the peasants.

[Qviddhartha]

On 11/8/2025 at 8:00 AM, Andy14 said:

 -> The ArmorMaterial* keywords affect tempering and related perks <- is wrong.😉

 

Hmm... indeed; the tempering recipes don't test keywords.  Perhaps I should put something different in my pipe.