Hostile Boarding Parties, Piracy, Defeat

[VenomousOuroboros]

Before I get told "Good.  Why don't you make it?" (and rightly so), this thread is mostly to stir up interest and share new ideas surrounding the core principle of the mod.  For now, it's all to be in good fun.

 

We all knew this was coming.  We all wanted it.  It makes perfect sense.

Skyrim and Fallout have had their quintessential Combat Defeat mods, and all their variations and derivatives.  Of course, one day (hopefully soon) Starfield will have its own.

But we'd be remiss to overlook the second theatre of combat: Dogfights.  Whether Ecliptic, Crimson Fleet, Va'ruun Zealots, Spacers, Starborn, or a system's arm of the Law, we're liable to get into some fights for which we are sorely unprepared.  A true, full-fledged Combat Defeat system should account for these circumstances and do its best to (gratuitously) expand upon them.

I haven't yet encountered any ships except the Starborn ones which make use of EM weapons, shutting my ship down and leaving it utterly vulnerable to being boarded and seized.  A crucial part of making a ship-based combat defeat mod is to establish some loosely logical means by which my ship is "downed" but not ripped open into the vacuum of space.  Equipping the all of the cookie-cutter enemy ships with EM weapons, thus, is a necessary part of such a mod.

Let's discuss various motivations of each party, and consequently, their... er, consequences.

CRIMINALS:  Ecliptic, Crimson, and Spacers are most likely to capture you and your entire crew, with no exceptions, once they board.  Probably tempted to kill off some of your non-essential crew, also.  Lin, Heller, and Jessamine might not be worth being kept alive.  Obviously, for the player and the essential companions, there'll be the NSFW outcomes, which we won't discuss here (one: wrong subforum; two: way too many potential ideas, it deserves its own thread).  For now, let's focus on the idea of every other consequence: your high-tier equipment gets stolen, your credits are taken down to the last (cent?), and your ship is seized and stowed at one of their outposts.  Be careful, it'll only be so long before they decide to strip it down to the last bolt and it's gone forever.  You and your crew, on the other hand, will at best be ditched and marooned on a random planet or moon.  Your only hope is to stumble across a civi outpost and beg for help, or take up the desperate action of attacking a random ship that lands nearby and becoming a criminal yourself.  Which, of course, brings me to....

LAW ENFORCEMENT: Freestar Rangers and UC Vanguard will seek to pacify, solely.  They're much more inclined to be goody-two-shoes, apprehending you for their brand of justice.  Not so likely to have NSFW outcomes (although let's not kid ourselves, Starfield will have its Prison Overhaul mod one day), but definitely to have complete asset seizure and incarceration.  This could introduce a "work off your debt" mechanic, in which you have to do menial surveying, material acquisition, and delivery tasks to earn back your ship and (some of) its contents.  Maybe your CommSpike or Scan Jammer are removed from your ship.  The ship itself, though, is warehoused and preserved for investigation... which means you have the option to try and cut loose, cobble together some resources, and steal your ship back.

VA'RUUN ZEALOTS: These folks are on a mission from their deity.  They aren't so concerned with your material possessions.  They want to purge the galaxy of heathens.  You and your crew will be captured.  Any Writings of House Va'Ruun will be taken back.  Your ship will be left as a derelict in whatever system in which they defeated you.  Who knows how long it'll take before some scavenger comes along and claims it for their own, never to be seen by you again?  Worry more about yourself, though.  The Zealots want you converted.  It'll be, again, its own brand of an NSFW mod.  Aside from that, we'll need to see what comes of the Shattered Space DLC, and what new venues are made available through it.  A vanilla outcome, however, could just be being left stranded on the closest planet or moon, solely so you aren't an imposition to the Zealots.

STARBORN: I don't know yet what these guys would do.  What are your thoughts?

 

Ultimately, I just don't want this major aspect of the game overlooked.  WHEN we get a defeat mod, I want to make sure we feel the weight of what's at stake as we're darting across the Settled Systems.

[Pamatronic]

Great, why don't you go and make it yourself?

[VenomousOuroboros]

2 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

Great, why don't you go and make it yourself?

[Juffo78]

I think, you have got a point, concerning ship combat. But I think, it can be done much simpler. 
In other death alternative mods, the PC surrenders, if the hitpoints fall below a threshold. So if your hull is below e.g. 10 %, you give up.
On other details, I disagree. If the borders were in for blood, they would kill everyone, and not just the non-essential characters. 
Setting the PC and the crew free on a planet would be trouble game-play wise, because you might end up with multiple companions. Taking away 
the ship has a great impact on the game progression. Forcing that might be to much.

What I think about it:
Pirate borders will take your cargo and your all belongings (activating a retrieve quest). After that, they might:
a) just leave
b) sell all female crew as slaves (given, there is a slave market mod)
quests activate to get back the companions (after you free yourself). You can free or buy them, if they are still at the slave trader, 
or you have to find out, who bought them.

[DocClox]

I think I'd like to see the boarding parties in their own right. Ship health + shieldd fall low enough, combat stops and a boarding party of pirates (or whatever) spawns by the docker. Lose that fight and the defeat option kicks inb win it and the space battle resumes with some shield repair to stop the boarding from instantly repeating.

[Reigor]

Do enemy ships that have EM weapons shut down player systems? 

 

If they do, and their intent is to board and capture the player and their ship (cuz money!). Then once the player's ships are disabled, stop enemy fire, and the closest one performs a docking action. The player has to get up out of their seat to continue.

 

Then have the crew of the other ship start spawning in small clusters of 2-3 at a time at the player ship's docker ladder, maybe proceed it with some sort of grenades (non-lethal if intent to capture). Combat between the two crews proceeds as normal. 

 

If the boarders win, then can have a brief conversation scene, fade to black, and the player wake up with no spacesuit in a pirate/merc/Va'Ruun/whatever base, their ship parked outside and locked down. 

[Gray User]

On 7/27/2024 at 1:17 AM, DocClox said:

I think I'd like to see the boarding parties in their own right. Ship health + shieldd fall low enough, combat stops and a boarding party of pirates (or whatever) spawns by the docker. Lose that fight and the defeat option kicks inb win it and the space battle resumes with some shield repair to stop the boarding from instantly repeating.

 

From mod development view, I think this is the way. Can also damage player health before combat and have boarding party spawns be leveled. 

 

Easiest final outcome maybe to leave player in broken ship. But could maybe script move player and companions and ship to new location depending on enemy faction.

 

Working on core projects now, but will look at this in the future. No promises.

[drp23]

Imo, the best defeat implementation for starfield would be something akin to CSA for fallout - where the player is transported to a different location and there's an escape/defeat scenario there, depending on the faction that the player lost to.  Starfield would actually be able to do a much better job of this than skyrim + fallout, since these scenarios could be set to happen at unique/custom POIs (or even ships).  there wouldn't be any bugs caused by quests in the area or other scripted events happening because it randomly chose to have the defeat scenario at an important landmark because that's where the nearest enemy was.  Having an extensible framework (of defeat scenarios) that others can add on to would be great here - some scenarios could be custom POIs that have unique escape quests, or just a series of scripted scenes that play out... or they could just be a vanilla POI duplicated with some random furniture added. 

Side note, one thing I've been thinking about lately:  Starfield's world is more grounded in reality than skyrim and fallout, and a lot of the adult mods for those games would feel somewhat "out of place" if they were just jammed into starfield as is.  I don't think the defeat "consequences" should happen right then and there (though on a ship, it'd be fine, depending on the enemy faction)... starfield feels too civilized for that kinda?  Also, there's the whole thing with fauna running around everywhere... and of course, spacesuits lol

I think to some extent, many sex/adult mods would feel somewhat out of place in starfield just because of how civilized the universe is. I think the sexual content might not stick out as much if the universe is made less PG overall... but I don't think replacing random textures with porn, giving NPCs giant racks, and deleting half of NPCs clothes is how to really fix that.  Environmental changes, like filler dialogue added to crowd NPCs, add some nightlife to cities, throw in some recreational drug use, criminal activity, etc. would help sell it too.  I might start a thread just to see what people's thoughts are and expand on that some

Edited January 25, 2025 by drp23

[Gray User]

Want to update this to say:

 

I do not have overall solution, but I have working test of mod that will cause other ship to dock with your ship when health is low. Can not get boarding party to work right. There are script template for it, but I think they are meant to cover PC boarding enemy ship and not enemy boarding PC ship. 

 

Are there any quest people know about where enemy team board your ship? I can look at that to see if it has solution. 

[sen4mi]

On 2/10/2025 at 1:45 PM, Gray User said:

Want to update this to say:

 

I do not have overall solution, but I have working test of mod that will cause other ship to dock with your ship when health is low. Can not get boarding party to work right. There are script template for it, but I think they are meant to cover PC boarding enemy ship and not enemy boarding PC ship. 

 

Are there any quest people know about where enemy team board your ship? I can look at that to see if it has solution. 

Before tackling that, I would see if combat or much of anything else on a custom modded ship can work.

 

I suspect there would be lots of pathing issues. (Even when the player is boarding a hostile ship, npcs struggle to deal with the cramped conditions, which tends to keep the player character from being overwhelmed when outnumbered).

 

I suspect that you would need custom scenes for each ship module (perhaps only cockpit modules?), maybe with text hints and/or fade-to-black to imply some of the boarding action.

Edited February 12, 2025 by sen4mi

[drp23]

 

On 2/10/2025 at 1:45 PM, Gray User said:

Want to update this to say:

 

I do not have overall solution, but I have working test of mod that will cause other ship to dock with your ship when health is low. Can not get boarding party to work right. There are script template for it, but I think they are meant to cover PC boarding enemy ship and not enemy boarding PC ship. 

 

Are there any quest people know about where enemy team board your ship? I can look at that to see if it has solution. 

Something that occured to me recently - I've never seen other ships dock with other ships, or space stations.  My theory is that they can't - having an AI ship get into position to dock (at least in an immersive, realistic looking way) is probably quite tricky, especially when dealing with ship -> ship docking.  This probably also explains the vanilla docking animations - I'm using More Visualized Docking at Starfield Nexus - Mods and Community (not sure which option), and at the beginning of the animation, the ship will quickly teleport to where it's supposed to be for the docking animation.

Short of a fade to black, then cut to a ship docking animation playing, I really don't know of any good solutions to that.  I'm assuming that we don't have enough control over a ship's AI/pathing to force it into the right position without some kind of teleport happening.

edit: I could be wrong about all of that, mostly just hypotheses

Edited February 24, 2025 by drp23

[Gray User]

On 2/23/2025 at 4:27 PM, drp23 said:

 

Something that occured to me recently - I've never seen other ships dock with other ships, or space stations.  My theory is that they can't - having an AI ship get into position to dock (at least in an immersive, realistic looking way) is probably quite tricky, especially when dealing with ship -> ship docking.  This probably also explains the vanilla docking animations - I'm using More Visualized Docking at Starfield Nexus - Mods and Community (not sure which option), and at the beginning of the animation, the ship will quickly teleport to where it's supposed to be for the docking animation.

Short of a fade to black, then cut to a ship docking animation playing, I really don't know of any good solutions to that.  I'm assuming that we don't have enough control over a ship's AI/pathing to force it into the right position without some kind of teleport happening.

edit: I could be wrong about all of that, mostly just hypotheses

 

Right now, I have alpha mod (will release this week or next for open testing to find all the problems I missed). There is a instantdock() function that does this: fade to black, teleports two ships together and docks them. I think pathing in BGS games is never reliable.

 

But good news is I think it mostly work. Did not get boarding quest based on generic boarding encounter script to work, but was able to set up system that spawns enemy boarders at player hatch.

 

Just need to make stupid room with stupid console options before putting out beta. Hope we get a mod config menu someday. 

[drp23]

4 hours ago, Gray User said:

 

Right now, I have alpha mod (will release this week or next for open testing to find all the problems I missed). There is a instantdock() function that does this: fade to black, teleports two ships together and docks them. I think pathing in BGS games is never reliable.

 

But good news is I think it mostly work. Did not get boarding quest based on generic boarding encounter script to work, but was able to set up system that spawns enemy boarders at player hatch.

 

Just need to make stupid room with stupid console options before putting out beta. Hope we get a mod config menu someday. 

Nice! I'm permanently in the QA/beta-testing mindset, so I'll give it hell when that happens

[TheStranger]

6 hours ago, Gray User said:

Just need to make stupid room with stupid console options before putting out beta. Hope we get a mod config menu someday. 

 

I'm not sure if we really need a dedicated MCM in Starfield. There are already mods that add configuration options to the "Gameplay Options" menu in the game. Not sure how they do it, but it is certainly possible. The Immersive Looting mod is one example (https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8383). If you look at the screenshots they've managed to create their own options in the settings menu.

 

But, anyways, I'm excited to see how the NPC boarding will work. It'll certainly help make space encounters a bit more interesting.

[Gray User]

7 hours ago, TheStranger said:

The Immersive Looting mod is one example (https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8383). If you look at the screenshots they've managed to create their own options in the settings menu.

 

Thank you. I will look at that mod and see if I can replicate. Other mods that I know do this do not provide decompiled scripts, so cannot see what they did. Maybe there is documentation someplace for this but I do not know where. 

[Gray User]

Ok, uploaded testing version of this mod. Still uses annoying debug terminal to set options because I have not tried working with game menus yet. 

 

If someone could let me know that it work and I did not mess up packaging it for download?

 

 

[Dariuse]

Hello, first comment, hello everyone. (I don't know where to introduce myself if it should be done.)

For ship boardings there are a few other possibilities that have not been said:

- Hide in the ship. Our character hides in a compartment and abandons the fight, which then allows him to sneak out later in the ship depending on where he arrived.

We can use the same rules as for illegal objects hidden from the scanners. (Many NSFW idea possible)

- Eject. This would require an entire mode that adds an ejection module compartment in order to land on a planet with a minimum of material from the cargo.

- Self-destruct. Allows you to press the self-destruct button to blow up the ship from the inside > Especially useful for other factions who would not hesitate to use it.

This allows to add a bit of tension to the boardings, because in 3H it is much too easy to defeat the others. But with a timer that forces you to confront and rush on the control desk to deactivate this system… It adds dramatic tension ^^.

- Catastrophe landing ? An intermediate solution (and simpler to code than the ejection) would be to crash the ship (I only imagined the bridge module) on a nearby planet. And to let the rest self-destruct with the enemies.
We come back again to a solution where we are on a hostile planet with little material and where we must survive. > with a risk of seeing the adversaries come to pursue us.

There you go, these were some ideas, to bring a bit of water to the mill. ^^