Best SL Defeat Option in 2024

[NoppaiKohai]

17 hours ago, サマエル said:

 

 

Do you know you can set up that thing? maybe it's because by downloading so many modpacks people are missing out on the ability to learn how to properly mod their damn skyrim and joining the ranks of the pebcak army instead. Skyrim is one of those games where the task of modding is not simply plug and play, no matter how much the modpack creators sell it that way.

 

Of course I know how to use the MCM to configure the mods, the point is even if you turn of 85% of the mod a lot are *still* extremely heavy and make it hard to actually play. Dunno what you are even on about the rando mod pack tangent but I've spent the last 4 days rebuilding my mod list for a new playthrough and the only thing modpacks are good for is as a starting base point, like NVGO is a great starting point because it handles all the graphic side of stuff so you can just build your list from there and not need to worry about all the 1,000 mandatory texture and mesh mods

 

I'm glad mod authors make mods and I'm not complaining, I'm more so confused on how a lot actually expect you to play the game. The problem with SL defeat mods is they are just always too unstable and end up with you locked in a loop or they bug out.

[belegost]

I've been using Bane's Defeat with LRG patch for a long time and in general I'm content with how it works. Seems to not have most of the problems other versions have and I like the added vulnerability feature. But it's not perfect and frankly I don't think any mod will be.

 

However I've been pondering getting rid of it temporarily in favour of DCL's own implementation of combat surrender (yes, DCL has its own defeat mechanic, who knew?). I've used it before with mixed results, but I've never given it a proper long term run to fully assess how it works. It claims to not have creature support but it does have a toggle for it. I've yet to test it in this regard. Maybe on next load order rebuild...

 

If anyone has more experience specifically with DCLs combat surrender (I'm not interested in anything else in this thread), I'd like to hear your opinion.

Edited November 13, 2024 by belegost

[Guest]

I dropped DCL cause of that combat surrender stuff, way to much lag, currently I'm using naked defeat a mod I dislike but it runs smooth ironically and every archer and mage can "defeat" you from a distance lol.

[IcicleInn]

I'm currently on the "Bane Defeat +  LRG AND NaDe" train because while Bane's defeat is nice, it has significant problems (at least with my current settings) against Massive Damage and DoTs.  NaDe is pretty slow on the processing but it is very consistent on death prevention.  Sometimes a little too consistent as I often have to manually toggle godmode off in console.  The obvious downside of NaDe other than the relatively slow post loss-scenes is the lack of ways to fight out of scenes like Defeat does, and the inconsistencies with the aftermath sequences

 

I have considered trying out Acheron and its addons, but haven't gotten consistently good reviews on the results as yet.

 

 

[belegost]

On 11/17/2024 at 1:02 AM, IcicleInn said:

Bane Defeat +  LRG AND NaDe

How do you even run the two next to each other? I'd like to know you set it up so they don't try to resolve the same situation getting into each other's way.

[eflat01]

Naked Defeat, obviously you want a defeat mod which is going to integrate well with others... I'd seen some users state issues with performance but I never had. That really comes down to script heavy mods usually when you've a number of them they fight with each other and task the system. Especially those which run scans on wide areas. Naked Defeat could likely be cleaned up a bit in that area... but it's the combination of many mods doing so at once which kills performance.

Edited November 18, 2024 by eflat01

[IcicleInn]

10 hours ago, belegost said:

How do you even run the two next to each other? I'd like to know you set it up so they don't try to resolve the same situation getting into each other's way.

I personally set up Defeat to only trigger on the LRG setting and Vulnerability.  Click off Essential and on Wound.  NaDe handles when my HP Zeroes out, Defeat+LRG handles if I take too many hits / make bad decisions but don't lose all of my HP.

 

This means I get NaDe results from dying and Defeat + struggle attempts from being beat up.

[belegost]

42 minutes ago, IcicleInn said:

I personally set up Defeat to only trigger on the LRG setting and Vulnerability.  Click off Essential and on Wound.  NaDe handles when my HP Zeroes out, Defeat+LRG handles if I take too many hits / make bad decisions but don't lose all of my HP.

 

This means I get NaDe results from dying and Defeat + struggle attempts from being beat up.

 

Interesting. I never thought about it this way. Would you be so kind as to screenshot your Defeat settings for all the relevant pages? I might actually try it some time, maybe tinker around with other defeat mods, see what works and what not.

[IcicleInn]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

 

Interesting. I never thought about it this way. Would you be so kind as to screenshot your Defeat settings for all the relevant pages? I might actually try it some time, maybe tinker around with other defeat mods, see what works and what not.

Not a whole lot to it, the main relevant pages look something like this:

Spoiler

 

[GUNDAMmk2]

- Defeat BAKA version conflicts with the following mods, not quite sure exactly what mechanism is causing the conflict: NFF, BBLS, Proteus.
  Everything is running fine so far in my playthrough... Hopefully there won't be any problems later on...

 

---

 

- YAMETE has a lot of victim/aggressor gender as well as stripping and knockout related settings, which is great. But its scene triggers are still too...weird compared to BAKA DEFEAT, not really my aesthetic...

 

---

 

- NAKED DEFEAT is the newest defeat mod, but it seems to have a lot of bugs, and I can't get it to work... Events don't trigger properly at all, and it messes up my character's health (character sometimes even goes invincible) and stamina bars.

 

---

 

- I'd like DEFEAT to implement automatic recognition of player character gender (which SEXLAB itself does) and automatically switch mod functions on and off based on player character gender - I'm currently playing multiple characters at the same time with PROTEUS - Both male and female. Whenever I switch between male and female characters, I have to have to manually switch the DEFEAT MOD on and off, because I only want my female character to be the victim, not the male...
 

Edited November 20, 2024 by GUNDAMmk2

[Gergar12]

Practical Defeat: (Re)animated version is the newest one and the one being updated the most often. 

[belegost]

On 11/13/2024 at 11:09 AM, belegost said:

DCL's own implementation of combat surrender (yes, DCL has its own defeat mechanic, who knew?). I've used it before with mixed results, but I've never given it a proper long term run to fully assess how it works. It claims to not have creature support but it does have a toggle for it. I've yet to test it in this regard.

I've briefly turned on creatures in DCL but it turns out this is a feature for rape. When you're wearing restraints, are unarmed, it's night, etc. your character can be raped. This toggle allows creatures to take part. Led to some weird stuff, like carriage horses following me into load doors and bugging out, because the start is so slow, if you miss the notification "xyz is going to rape you", you can walk a fair distance, even change cells before it starts. Usually its no issue with human actors, but if a horse or a hostile creature spawns inside a walled city, a lot of things go haywire.

[Ralin Drakus]

What's the best option currently out there for NPC v NPC and Player as the aggressor?

 

The original Defeat was always my favorite because it featured those two functions. Most new defeat mods are focused on the player getting attacked (I play as male characters - I use the mod to save female followers, let my followers get theirs, and to be the aggressor)

[KIKOU16]

Hi, after many years I'm mostly using Defeat Bane as it doen't mess things, it's very stable, and you always can toggle 'CLEAN' to reset.

 

Anyway my preferred defeat mods always were Naked Dungeons (works incredibly well but has DD that I don't want) and NaDe.

 

As said Defeat Bane can go with both of them.

 

But it's not the heaven as I get many issues with Nade.

Edited December 6, 2024 by KIKOU16

[KIKOU16]

On 10/15/2024 at 8:02 PM, Burensc said:

Still Naked defeat plus SL Defeat (for NPC vs NPC, or the player being the aggressor and ability to kidnap) is a winning combo. You just need to make sure SL defeat never handles the player/ your team getting defeated and Naked defeat and SL defeat work great with each other.) If SL defeat ever handles the player and interferes with Naked defeat it will break the game and you need to rebuild your MO2 instance

 

Different advice : 

 

On 11/19/2024 at 2:55 AM, IcicleInn said:

I personally set up Defeat to only trigger on the LRG setting and Vulnerability.  Click off Essential and on Wound.  NaDe handles when my HP Zeroes out, Defeat+LRG handles if I take too many hits / make bad decisions but don't lose all of my HP.

 

This means I get NaDe results from dying and Defeat + struggle attempts from being beat up.

 

Very interesting because I love NaDe and use it with DefeatBane but have no precise idea about what should be avoided/toggled on each side to make them perfectly match.

[KIKOU16]

By the way, as DefeatBane is completed by FSM - Follower Slavery Mod of the same Bane Master, does anybody know if the use of this with NaDe can cause some bugs ?

[belegost]

I am having issues with Bane's Defeat when playing on Legendary. I always die when struck with magic or arrows or by a power attack, especially at low levels when my health pool is still meagre and I'm not wearing heavy armour. It seems that Defeat can't handle scenarios when the damage is so overwhelming it basically ones-shots you.

[Wonko486]

I was using naked defeat... till I actually got to fighting people, then when I was knocked down: the screen did this. It never fixed itself. Maybe I didn't wait long enough to see if the animations were over, but... I literally paid for laser surgery so I don't have to see that shit, why would I put up with it in my game? Could not figure out what setting did it. If I can figure it out, I might try ND again, because up until the astigmatism: it worked very well. Smooth and responsive.

[KIKOU16]

Uh, the Wonko picture makes me think of the landing of some UFO thing. - Or maybe do we reach the 5th dimension ?...

 

Seriously, never seen anything like that before.

 

Naked Defeat does strange things, maybe because it stresses the engine way too much. I'm curious to know the hardware config of whose who run NaDe without heavy problem. In my case I'm merely working on laptops, the 2 best are 1) Ryzen5 + RTX_3060_6g and 2) Intel i7 + RTX_3080_8g. I recently found an used desktop with i7 (9th gen but K type) + RTX_2080_super_8g, will see soon how it works. I just can't afford the new RTX_40XX series.

 

 

[KIKOU16]

6 hours ago, belegost said:

It seems that Defeat can't handle scenarios when the damage is so overwhelming it basically ones-shots you.

 

Agree. It happens to me on LE and even on AE. Seems that Defeat goes too slow and the triggering of the defeat system happens after you death is already registered ?

[belegost]

14 minutes ago, KIKOU16 said:

Seems that Defeat goes too slow and the triggering of the defeat system happens after you death is already registered

 

Perhaps, but that does not explain why it totally doesn't work for distance attacks of any kind. With arrows or magic or even dragons, I might as well not bother having Defeat, regardless of my initial health pool, resistances or armour. If a ranged attack depletes HP to zero, it's game over, no matter what.

As far as I remember it was not an issue in the original Defeat. It had a lot other problems, but getting one-shot and ragdoll was not one of them. It worked reliably in this one particular context. I have no idea what happened.

Edited December 6, 2024 by belegost

[Wonko486]

7 hours ago, KIKOU16 said:

Uh, the Wonko picture makes me think of the landing of some UFO thing. - Or maybe do we reach the 5th dimension ?...

 

Seriously, never seen anything like that before.

It's actually a forsworn, an argonian, and a bridge in the rift... supposedly. I've never been one for modern art myself.

Edited December 7, 2024 by Wonko486

[belegost]

3 minutes ago, Wonko486 said:

a forsworn, an argonian, and a bridge in the rift

 

Do they all walk into a bar?

[IcicleInn]

10 hours ago, Wonko486 said:

I was using naked defeat... till I actually got to fighting people, then when I was knocked down: the screen did this. It never fixed itself. Maybe I didn't wait long enough to see if the animations were over, but... I literally paid for laser surgery so I don't have to see that shit, why would I put up with it in my game? Could not figure out what setting did it. If I can figure it out, I might try ND again, because up until the astigmatism: it worked very well. Smooth and responsive.

 

Since nobody's answered your question yet:

Spoiler

You will want to check the option boxed in RED to disable the blur effect.  The mod's maker said it was supposed to work well with ENBs as an alternative option to fade to black but it certainly does look ... interesting ... sometimes.

 

Also highly recommend you check the option boxed in BLUE because as you mentioned, the wait for a SL scene to start can be pretty long.

[Wonko486]

I could have sworn it was unchecked, but I'll keep it in mind and do some experiments when I can.