The Bridge (AAF to NAF)

[nodtrial]

59 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

I will ask them about it. In the meantime, are you a different person than the one that posted this bridge mod on Nexus?

I don't understand, why we talking here about some files your friend gave you from somewhere on nexus?

Talk about it with your friend. I can talk with you about my mod, I post it here, on Lovers lab. You can download it and be sure by yourself its very different from your mod. Anything else is just your fantasies.

You can ask me about any part of code, and I explain to you why I use it, what it does. Yes, I've studied your code in details, and wrote my code that bypassing your mod to use other modifications with NAF, because it much better then your engine today. I placed it here for the people using it free. There is nothing breaking copyrights. I used bethesda tools. Didn't used any your property. Just bethesda's property. They gave me this rights in their license.

And even for somekind of gentlemen rules - it is not your code in AAF_API provides my mod functionality. So I don't uderstand what we are talking about here. Just about your big big ego, nothing else.

Edited March 16 by nodtrial

[nodtrial]

Sory, it is hard to me to read your bla-bla on the phone, without translater. Maybe later. But it looks like your ego-talk, so probably I won't.

[MysticDaedra]

The .xml thing was one thing, but this is a .psc file. Bethesda retains full ownership per EULA/TOS for Creation Kit and all files created with it (or meant to be created/used by it), including Papyrus. You can't copyright a papyrus script file for this reason, without thereby infringing on Bethesda's own patents and copyrights.

 

That being said... OP, the diff images dagobaking shared clearly show a ripped script file. Not illegal, but definitely not cool to re-distribute said file in this way. You could have at least wiped the header... geez.

[Miauzi]

Vor 12 Minuten sagte nodtrial:

Tut mir leid, es fällt mir schwer, Ihr Bla-Bla am Telefon ohne Übersetzer zu lesen. Vielleicht später. Aber es sieht aus wie deine Ego-Gerede, also werde ich es wahrscheinlich nicht tun.

 

I've now spent over 2 hours watching their stupidly brazen efforts to justify their theft of ideas to the actual author... and noticed that there is apparently a kind of "argumentative construction kit" on the Internet - because of the abundance of their appearances -Arguments, distortions and blatant lies remind me of something -> 2 years ago a bold thief stole my wife's designs for several 3D printed constructions and passed them off as her own designs... and demanded money for their "reuse". .

Yes - people like you are a cancer for the free exchange of ideas... and when the bogus arguments run out or the evidence from the other side becomes too great - as (I) expected, there is a flood of insults.

 

[2Dimm]

2 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

 

here comes the butthurt master, you can't copyright mods, give up, its all owned by bethesda

Edited March 16 by 2Dimm

[izzyknows]

30 minutes ago, nodtrial said:

It is a nonsence.

It is, and lets not forget Bugthesda can, and has taken mods and use them as their own with 0 forks given to the actual mod author.

Not to mention, anyone can use any mod in a "collection" and make money from it, while not sharing a penny with the actual mod authors.

 

So develop away and have fun. And remember, it's just a game.

 

[Ashal]

2 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

 

There is no PSC file in the download only a PEX file, and decompiled PEX files don't look like that. Additionally, the screenshot of the diff shows no actual code, just three lines of variable declarations. So, I find this screenshot incredibly misleading, as there is no evidence it is even related to this mod.

 

Sorry, but this isn't evidence of anything being stolen, nor would I consider the concept of a bridge mod to be against the rules.

[nodtrial]

And if we throw a subject and will talk in general - it is your option to do your mod better then NAF, or crying in the corner that someone did better then you.

Do your best and nobody will need NAF or bridge.

[Yannis Valentine]

Yeah he is just threatening nonsense I hope some other admin doesnt turns this around like they did with NAF 

[shittyguy]

so the one time dago shows proof he's in the wrong, who could have guess.

[Ashal]

9 minutes ago, shittyguy said:

so the one time dago shows proof he's in the wrong, who could have guess.

 

They have shown plenty of extensive proof in the past regarding NAF. I'm just not accepting this one piece's current case.

[shittyguy]

2 minutes ago, Ashal said:

 

They have shown plenty of extensive proof in the past regarding NAF. I'm just not accepting this one's current case.

did he show that proof in dm? because he never showed when i asked before.

[Yannis Valentine]

 

Just now, shittyguy said:

did he show that proof in dm? because he never showed when i asked before.

He said his voice was his proof shitty guy duh he speaks truth only!

[deadshift2010]

So, I don't know if it's something on your end or not, but during scenes the free cam is disabled. Might be something to look into. Other than that it seems to work perfectly well so far!

[Saint_Olaf]

I knew this was coming the moment I saw this listing lol.

 

[dagobaking]

1 hour ago, nodtrial said:

It is a nonsence. I can get access/connections using any method provided by bethesda tools. I can name my files any I want. You have no exceptionally copyrights for it. 

 

I have copyrights to the work that I create. The fact that you can make derivatives with Bethesda tools does not change anything about my rights.

 

1 hour ago, nodtrial said:

I don't understand, why we talking here about some files your friend gave you from somewhere on nexus?

Talk about it with your friend. I can talk with you about my mod, I post it here, on Lovers lab. You can download it and be sure by yourself its very different from your mod. Anything else is just your fantasies.

You can ask me about any part of code, and I explain to you why I use it, what it does. Yes, I've studied your code in details, and wrote my code that bypassing your mod to use other modifications with NAF, because it much better then your engine today. I placed it here for the people using it free. There is nothing breaking copyrights. I used bethesda tools. Didn't used any your property. Just bethesda's property. They gave me this rights in their license.

And even for somekind of gentlemen rules - it is not your code in AAF_API provides my mod functionality. So I don't uderstand what we are talking about here. Just about your big big ego, nothing else.

 

Again with your ignorant "I used Bethesda tools" argument. That means nothing in law. You have made an unauthorized derivative.

 

And why are you so afraid to admit the file on Nexus? You even used the same image they did. Are you a different person than the original author?

 

1 hour ago, nodtrial said:

Sory, it is hard to me to read your bla-bla on the phone, without translater. Maybe later. But it looks like your ego-talk, so probably I won't.

 

Ok. Well, let me explain it again in phone-friendly format:

 

What you think is success is really you failing.

 

I've been working on AAF since 2018. I didn't need to copy anyone's work to make it. It came from my mind and abilities.

 

You and the author of NAF can't say the same. Your mods would never exist without my work.

 

Just think about that for a while and see if that shoe fits you.

 

1 hour ago, MysticDaedra said:

The .xml thing was one thing, but this is a .psc file. Bethesda retains full ownership per EULA/TOS for Creation Kit and all files created with it (or meant to be created/used by it), including Papyrus. You can't copyright a papyrus script file for this reason, without thereby infringing on Bethesda's own patents and copyrights.

 

That being said... OP, the diff images dagobaking shared clearly show a ripped script file. Not illegal, but definitely not cool to re-distribute said file in this way. You could have at least wiped the header... geez.

 

I know some people make this claim. But, I'm familiar with the EULA/TOS and it does not say that. No EULA/TOS can legally prevent people from being owners of their own work. It would be invalid in the eyes of the law. Even in employment law, you have to use very specific language to transfer work ownership to an employer. And even that can pretty easily get defeated by an employee in certain circumstances.

 

1 hour ago, 2Dimm said:

 

here comes the butthurt master, you can't copyright mods, give up, its all owned by bethesda

 

Now nobody can copyright mods?

 

Talk about fap-colored glasses.

 

56 minutes ago, izzyknows said:

So develop away and have fun. And remember, it's just a game.

 

In normal circumstances, I would simply move along. The problem for me is that I don't want to penalize the many authors and good users that have contributed over the years.

 

I don't believe the NAF assholes speak for them. If I thought they did I would have left long ago.

 

55 minutes ago, Ashal said:

 

 

There is no PSC file in the download only a PEX file, and decompiled PEX files don't look like that. Additionally, the screenshot of the diff shows no actual code, just three lines of variable declarations. So, I find this screenshot incredibly misleading, as there is no evidence it is even related to this mod.

 

Sorry, but this isn't evidence of anything being stolen, nor would I consider the concept of a bridge mod to be against the rules.

 

I am waiting to hear more information about how the file was obtained. But, I have a feeling that it was taken from psc source that was shared on discord during development. My source is someone you at least know of and has always been a person of integrity around here.

 

But, assuming that it is an accurate source-file. It clearly establishes that this was not some accidental similarity. It proves that the bridge mod is by definition of law a derivative of my work. That's regardless of the amount of code it shows. I mean, what is that angle even driving at? That copying some of my code isn't copying?

 

Bridge mods have existed in co-operation with the original authors or when authors go missing. As such, they have gone unchallenged. I think it's different when someone makes a bridge mod to link up with mods that aren't even allowed on the site due to copying, for a mod in active development.

 

54 minutes ago, nodtrial said:

And if we throw a subject and will talk in general - it is your option to do your mod better then NAF, or crying in the corner that someone did better then you.

Do your best and nobody will need NAF or bridge.

 

I think what you are trying to say is that I should be ok with competition.

 

I AM ok with competition. But, actually compete then! Copying my work is an admission that you CAN'T compete.

 

Grow some dignity and make your own shit. Don't hijack everyone's work.

 

49 minutes ago, shittyguy said:

so the one time dago shows proof he's in the wrong, who could have guess.

 

We had a 3 day debate and I destroyed every argument you guys threw at me.

 

You were left clinging to an argument that I was able to refute within the first few posts (that copying lines of code is the only form of copyright violation in software).

 

43 minutes ago, Ashal said:

 

They have shown plenty of extensive proof in the past regarding NAF. I'm just not accepting this one piece's current case.

 

Well. I've been working on AAF since 2018. Fielding requests, helping people connect to and work with it, etc. There is quite a lot of additional work and activity stemming from that here.

 

Given that, I think the issue here deserves some additional consideration.

 

40 minutes ago, shittyguy said:

did he show that proof in dm? because he never showed when i asked before.

 

I destroyed your "show me the proof" arguments over and over again.

 

39 minutes ago, Yannis Valentine said:

 

He said his voice was his proof shitty guy duh he speaks truth only!

 

That's rich. Yannis talking to people about truth.

 

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

Honestly, if the people around NAF tried to convince the authors making these sex mods why NAF is superior and to make NAF friendly versions out of the box... or showed some originality (That might be hard considering this situation at hand) and made their own version of these sex mods for NAF, NAF would have probably popped off by now and be in a better position than it is trying to ride on AAF.


This weird, depressing obsession with the insistence on dickriding Dagoba while attacking him for not appeasing your entitlement is honestly real clown girl shit tbh. And devoting so much energy to doing so is honestly sad to watch from outside. Like to me it's stupid that y'all hate dago yet you're giving him all this space in your head and all this energy. 

 

Edited March 16 by TheBottomhoodofSteel

[kziitd]

Wait

I have a question.

What exactly does this mod do? I saw the author said that he replaced the AAf files: "it just named same to [replace]AAF files".

Is this something allowed by AAF authors?

Because this is a "replacement" not a "patch".

I can't understand that direct replacement of the original file without the author's consent is allowed.😲

Except for personal use, of course. and Esp with the same name for translation purposes.

----

Yes. It replaces data/Scripts/AAF/AAF_API.pex provided by AAF.

I can't believe it：

Same path, same file.

Without any consent from dagoba, the author considers it without any infringement.😲

Edited March 16 by kziitd

[UsernameTaken666]

This file is posted on Nexus fwiw. Seems to be same person also.

ETA: @dagobaking already mentioned this. My apologies. 

Edited March 16 by UsernameTaken666

[dagobaking]

14 minutes ago, UsernameTaken666 said:

This file is posted on Nexus fwiw. Seems to be same person also.

ETA: @dagobaking already mentioned this. My apologies. 

 

It's odd that he keeps dodging that simple point. Maybe he posted the file with my banner still in it there before he thought to "clean" it up.

[nodtrial]

I don't afraid any, Dagoba. It is you are afraid. You can try to prove anything. It will not change anything. Believe - this mod doesn't disappear anywhere, even you will can remove it from this site. I'm tired to run this circle. Any mind-healthy person is seeing who is right.

[kziitd]

14 minutes ago, nodtrial said:

I don't afraid any, Dagoba. It is you are afraid. You can try to prove anything. It will not change anything. Believe - this mod doesn't disappear anywhere, even you will can remove it from this site. I'm tired to run this circle. Any mind-healthy person is seeing who is right.

hi

You edited the original API.pex of AAF and made it public without Dagoba's consent.

Do you really think this is nothing?

If it were called Bridge API.pex, I wouldn't even ask that.

 

[UsernameTaken666]

23 minutes ago, nodtrial said:

I don't afraid any, Dagoba. It is you are afraid. You can try to prove anything. It will not change anything. Believe - this mod doesn't disappear anywhere, even you will can remove it from this site. I'm tired to run this circle. Any mind-healthy person is seeing who is right.

wtf is this is gibberish? really?

[nodtrial]

1 hour ago, kziitd said:

You edited the original API.pex of AAF and made it public without Dagoba's consent.

Do you really think this is nothing?

If it were called Bridge API.pex, I wouldn't even ask that.

I wrote a new code. This code doesn't do similar as Dagoba code, and main part of this code works by my algorythm, not Dagoba's. I can use papyrus, I can name my file as I want. So as you were say : yes, it is nothing. Any who can read papyrus - can be convinced personally. So, if we even move through that fact Dagoba have no any copyrights and exceptional right for using papyrus, there is no Dagoba code used for primary mods function. There won't be basically elements used in primary mod's function from Dagoba. 
Some code similarity is definitely possible, this is due to the fact that the task of the mod is to bypass AAF and transfer most of the functions to NAF. But this similarity is not much, and it does not provide the main declared functions of the mod. So you can kiss your Dagoba, take him on your hands and go to hell.

 

p.s. I would prefer that the whining and suffering stop in this thread and a healthy discussion of the mod itself begin. And please direct all your suffering to the Lord God, and not in this topic any more.

 

p.p.s. I kindly ask the moderators to wipe the comments of this topic. I am ready to answer all possible questions from moderators in private messages. It is very uncomfortable for users to open mod's topic and immediately fall into the abyss of squabbles and showdowns.

Edited March 16 by nodtrial
added post scriptum

[georgechalkias]

The author clearly doesn't speak English so there's some communication issues here.

 

What I'll say below is my personal opinion and feedback between the two mods. I decided to give NAF a brief try just to check. After giving it a try, I'll stick to AAF until NAF becomes easier to use.

For all its worth, NAF feels better on performance. Opening a menu when surrounded with multiple actors doesn't mini-freeze your game as AAF, mysteriously, does at random times. I tried to set 500ft or away in AAF and not only it would take a long time to scan actors but also froze for a second when it finished its scan.

With NAF, it instantly finds those actors within 500-700ft and no freeze either.

 

- Then you can easily choose actors with your mouse cursor on the list which is neat because such as feature does not exist in AAF since you are forced to use keyboard buttons to cycle through actor list which can take a long time.

- You can also choose actors during animation to QUICKLY swap animations (by going from Animation 1 to Animation 5 in one go) because AAF forces you to cycle through animations to find the animation you want.

- Finally, you can also choose furniture for huge distances (up to 750ft). I believe you can adjust that in AAF anyway. However, NAF instantly finds furns when AAF takes ~5 seconds more or less. So, I can choose up to 750ft for furniture. Not very viable since NPCs will despawn in such distance anyway. Companions may get auto-teleported back to you, depending on your multi-follower mod.

 

And, with this bridge mod, there are some MCM features to tick without manually editing .ini files as you have to with AAF.

 

The negative part is;

- The strap-on doesn't appear? At least in manually assigned animations. It still appears in violate for example.

- Some animations don't play or aren't too synced? Could be animation issue rather than NAF.

- I can't move when NAF menu is opened?

- Didn't seem to be super compatible with FO4's existing NSFW. Some work is still needed.

 

And, to be fair, while all these copyright stuff violation sucks (if true, anyway) and all that, you aren't immune from criticism @dagobaking either.

Your mod receives very few and minor updates over the years, it's not only a monopoly mod but archaic and not very convenient to use as I said above.

You claimed updates were in the works but halted due to IRL issues. While that is obviously understandable, you are charging unreleased versions in your Patreon. Your newest unreleased version is in July 2023. Since then, no updates. Not like there were any significant updates over the years anyway.

It appears that you have more time to argue on forums and send legal threats / DMCA against NAF rather than spend that free time improving your mod.

 

NAF is a good competition as it provides vastly different (and more) features than AAF does, is more modernized and is more convenient. What did YOU do to take steps to improve your mod since NAF was removed from LL? NAF's existence didn't seem to motivate you to improve AAF's convenience of use, for example.

However harsh it might sound, most players don't care about copyright stuff. They care about a good product. And that's up to them to judge which product is good in the end; AAF or NAF?

 

I'm sticking with AAF for now till NAF gets better because it has its potential. Despite AAF's cons, it's more 'ready' to use than NAF for now.

My take; instead of arguing about copyright and the whole 'stealing work' - AGAIN, IT SUCKS, YES - do take feedback as to why NAF exists and why people prefer NAF over AAF.

 

Below is the basic comparison I could see in limited gameplay. I'll leave that to your conclusion.

 

 

Edited March 16 by georgechalkias