Licenses - Player Oppression

[DonQuiWho]

@Nuascura

 

Hi

 

I'm afraid to say that I think that this mod may be incompatible with Devious Carriages Redux.  (Ref here as DCR)

 

In short, DCR can initiate a SEXLAB scene which results in the player and the carriage driver protagonists falling foul of the "BM_ME_DetectLocChange.psc" script

 

Basically, DCR starts the scene, Licenses doesn't seem to cope too well with the way DCR handles the carriage driver and player's postions on the change of location, eg when setting up a trip from Whiterun to Riften, and the whole SEXLAB scene then ends up at 0,0,0 in Bleakwind Basin.  That's been 100% of the times I've tried it, and I've tried License's various MCM location recognition settings too when doing so

 

For ease of reference, the attached text file has

 

--------------------

 

1 - a log extract showing the error

 

[08/11/2025 - 06:18:44PM] Error:  (FE06E027): cannot be moved to a None object's location.

stack:
    [ (FE06E027)].ObjectReference.MoveTo() - "<native>" Line ?
    [None].BM_ME_DetectLocChange.OnLocationChange() - "BM_ME_DetectLocChange.psc" Line 16

 

2 - The .psc extract of the Function called and the conditions under which the script is run

 

-------------------

 

I'm no techie but this looks like why DCR fails every time the chances set take the player into to a scene between the carriage driver and the player.  I can't speak for what happens if any of the other 'non driver' outcomes are invoked as I haven't got to them yet

 

IF I have got the source of this problem something like right, is there any way of fixing it, please?  For the purposes of this game, if not, I'll abandon Licenses and just take it out and clean up as best as I can with ReSaver.  

 

In that regard, is this the a child of BM Licenses, like LMAO is?   That mod screws the pooch in that it doesn't seem to work reliably, and will give you an instant CTD at startup if you try to remove it.  Even when 'deactivated' - or so its MCM would imply - it still spams errors into your log.  I don't want to remove Licenses if at all possible, but if worst came to worst, do you have any idea if removing it would be likely to have the same sort of issues as LMAO has?

 

TIA for any help/suggestions you can offer 

 

DQW

 

250811 BM_ME_Detect Location Change error.txt

 

 

   

[Nuascura]

@DonQuiWho Your error log has nothing to do with DCR bugging out as you described. What this erroring snippet of my script does is move an invisible Player Marker to the Player Actor's position. This section of my script is failing because the Magic Effect is not attached to an Actor any more, so it cannot retrieve the Target Actor reference.

 

The Player Marker has no collisions and in no way can tangibly affect the Player Actor. This fact leaves any potential issue to the function GetTargetActor(), which by what I know shouldn't interfere with animation scenes.

 

Could Licenses be causing your issue elsewhere? Maybe. But I can't think of anything as Licenses explicitly halts mod operations in recognized SexLab scenes and also doesn't port the player in any scenario outside actively-running Enforcer scenes (post confrontation with License Enforcer/Guard). As such, logically, it is highly unlikely for Licenses to be the perpetrator. Nonetheless, this ostensible fact is emphatically not equivalent to your manifested experience. If you truly do prioritize DCR, believe removing Licenses fixes the issue, and can confirm it on your setup, then your natural next step is to uninstall Licenses.

 

Your animation symptom itself is highly common. I'd suggest seeking help from the SexLab Framework thread or the DD NG Discord server.

[DonQuiWho]

3 hours ago, Nuascura said:

@DonQuiWho Your error log has nothing to do with DCR bugging out as you described. What this erroring snippet of my script does is move an invisible Player Marker to the Player Actor's position. This section of my script is failing because the Magic Effect is not attached to an Actor any more, so it cannot retrieve the Target Actor reference.

 

The Player Marker has no collisions and in no way can tangibly affect the Player Actor. This fact leaves any potential issue to the function GetTargetActor(), which by what I know shouldn't interfere with animation scenes.

 

Could Licenses be causing your issue elsewhere? Maybe. But I can't think of anything as Licenses explicitly halts mod operations in recognized SexLab scenes and also doesn't port the player in any scenario outside actively-running Enforcer scenes (post confrontation with License Enforcer/Guard). As such, logically, it is highly unlikely for Licenses to be the perpetrator. Nonetheless, this ostensible fact is emphatically not equivalent to your manifested experience. If you truly do prioritize DCR, believe removing Licenses fixes the issue, and can confirm it on your setup, then your natural next step is to uninstall Licenses.

 

Your animation symptom itself is highly common. I'd suggest seeking help from the SexLab Framework thread or the DD NG Discord server.

 

Thanks for the VERY prompt reply.  Much appreciated

 

Over the years, I have been high over the Giant's playground more often than the average skooma user, bonking both singly and with others for no good reason other than it seems to be Sexlab's built in means of getting you away from it all, so I am well aware of the multifarious iniquities that mods can use to place one there

 

Having said that, I'm afraid that my next course of action will be to try removing Licenses, just to see if that does make any real difference.  Not that it would necessarily be the fault of Licenses, but rather just in case the perverseness of other mods may be such that it might not play nicely with some of them

 

Of course, I'll let you know what transpires

 

Should everything else then work, I shall return, not with any inherent satisfaction, or as some sort of panjandrum - something that I would never claim to be - but rather just to inform you that there is some sort of weird happening, and with sorrow in my heart that I may not be able to have the best of all worlds

 

And should I find that the problems continue on, I shall also return, clothed in sackcloth and ashes to beg your forgiveness for having as much as even remotely doubted your technical authority and capability, and humbly seek readmission to the fold

 

😉

 

EDIT: Seriously, and there's really no joy whatsoever in writing this, but having removed Licenses, making sure that the resultant save went through ReSaver and was as clean as I'm able to tell from the summary data, I went back to the Carraige driver at Whiterun and, as usual, Devious Carraiges Redux kicked off with a Driver/player scene right in front of the carriage, but this time right there without any problems. 

 

It MAY yet prove to be that I got lucky and the DCR event chosen on this occasion was one that didn't entail crossing any hold borders, and hence maybe not directly comparable with all those that failed, but the scene start intro seemed identical to those that had gone before

 

As I say, not absolutely conclusive and if anything fails at a later stage showing similar problems to those initially encountered, I'll return here to make that explicitly clear

 

But meantime, I'll leave this here just in case anyone else encounters anything similar and can, hopefully helpfully, add to the general knowledge.  And obviously, if anything changes and my game still has space, I'll add Licenses back 'post haste'    

 

DQW

Edited August 11, 2025 by DonQuiWho

[Nuascura]

7 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

Over the years, I have been high over the Giant's playground more often than the average skooma user, bonking both singly and with others for no good reason other than it seems to be Sexlab's built in means of getting you away from it all, so I am well aware of the multifarious iniquities that mods can use to place one there

There's only one explanation I've read over the years that makes any logical sense without my having to investigate SexLab's code directly: 

Being more nuanced and realistic: the correlation of Licenses and SexLab's simultaneous inability to move their respective markers (for two different contexts and use cases) indicates that, if Licenses has a part in this issue, removing Licenses is an alleviation of the issue rather than a remedy. As with all testing, we have to always test with fresh saves; be careful not to treat issues with playthrough-persistent subsequent testing as variable-free.

 

Ultimately, the cause may be something else entirely. This is all conjecture, and any investigation would start from SexLab first.

 

Edited August 12, 2025 by Nuascura

[DonQuiWho]

9 hours ago, Nuascura said:

There's only one explanation I've read over the years that makes any logical sense without my having to investigate SexLab's code directly: 

Being more nuanced and realistic: the correlation of Licenses and SexLab's simultaneous inability to move their respective markers (for two different contexts and use cases) indicates that, if Licenses has a part in this issue, removing Licenses is an alleviation of the issue rather than a remedy. As with all testing, we have to always test with fresh saves; be careful not to treat issues with playthrough-persistent subsequent testing as variable-free.

 

Ultimately, the cause may be something else entirely. This is all conjecture, and any investigation would start from SexLab first.

 

 

Absolutely!  Thanks for that.

 

But, to parody Dr McCoy...,

 

Hey, Jim, it's Skyrim!  It's worse than that, Jim, it's Skyrim and Sexlab ..... boldly going forward, 'cos we can't find reverse

 

   

 

DQW

 

And in case the allusion isn't familiar 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2025 by DonQuiWho

[Seeker999]

I created a bat file for If you ever find yourself in the sky over Bleakwind Basin (or somewhere else) and falling to your death this command will take you inside the Drunken Huntsman in Whiterun
player.moveto 0001a681

I didn't want to plop myself somewhere outside where I can find myself in the middle of a dragon/vampire/bandit attack. I have successfully eluded death or near death for years. If bandits are raping me at the time ... oops for them 😉

[42ndDivision]

On 8/7/2025 at 12:08 AM, Nuascura said:

Thanks for your interest in Licenses.

 

On Travel Violations - these violations are intended to be 'sticky', so they don't play well with scenarios that intentionally remove them from you. The original idea was to guard against scenarios where you have an existing Travel Violation but you then purchase a permit later - this purchase should not remove your existing violation. I'll have to tweak this logic or remove this stickiness altogether.

 

 

Understood, thanks.

I think for now, given the stickiness, I'll disable travel permits given I have a lot of mods in my load order that remove player inventories (BaboDialogue, Pama's mods, etc.)

 

Could I confirm if there are other permits that also have this 'sticky' behaviour built in? I.e, will count violations even if you only temporarily don't have the permit?

[Nuascura]

10 minutes ago, 42ndDivision said:

Could I confirm if there are other permits that also have this 'sticky' behaviour built in? I.e, will count violations even if you only temporarily don't have the permit?

Effectively, no.

 

To be truthful and slightly complicate the issue, Curfew Violations are also sticky and cleared like Travel Violations, but this is mainly a performance-saving measure. If you've regained your Curfew Violation and a guard is still chasing you, run away until the guard gives up. Your violation will then be reset like for every other license feature other than the Travel Permit.

 

Also do note that Licenses doesn't usually check for any violations if you enable the LOS condition and the NPC spotting you belongs to a faction blacklisted by LPO's LOS setup.

[40Karats]

Would it be possible to add an option to strictly enforce the crafting, and also maybe the trading, licenses so that the player is completely unable to use crafting/enchanting tables, or enter trade menu/select the dialogue? For eg, so that if you try to use a workbench etc, you get a notification top left saying you can't use it? Looks more tricky to do for trading, but it seems plausible to do for crafting, I've seen mods that restrict uses of smiths/enchanting/alchemy unless meeting certain conditions.

 

Currently the crafting license is fairly useless since you can just use any of the countless crafting stations in the wild with no consequence. Embershard mine literally has everything you need to be a underground smith, rather than staying a law-abiding smith in Riverwood.

 

Although it might be less realistic/gamey, I personally prefer strict enforcement to further encourage actually getting the licenses, eg I also used Item Equip Restrictor by po3 to strictly enforce my armour licenses. You could just equip armour before combat and take it off afterwards, it was hard to face consequences for doing this.

Edited August 13, 2025 by 40Karats

[Nuascura]

2 hours ago, 40Karats said:

Would it be possible to add an option to strictly enforce the crafting, and also maybe the trading, licenses so that the player is completely unable to use crafting/enchanting tables, or enter trade menu/select the dialogue?

No, not possible unless you’re fine with a shabby implementation.

 

What we have for Crafting License is what’s there right now. And what we have for Trading License is through compromise and research. My meaning is that the former’s research backing is shallower than for the latter, so it could help if you can provide the mods examples you referenced. But with what exists in Licenses, the reasons for unfeasibility are the same: milliseconds matter, functions do not run in sync, and it is too easy for the player to brute-force through the dynamic checks. These same issues plague SLS.

 

An alternative is to directly block through dialogue, which is what other SFW mods do AFAIK. Licenses also once did this for the Trading License feature. However, compatibility patching is a mess and I judged the overall upkeep needs not worth it.

[40Karats]

Understandable, I was aware of the difficulty of dealing with dialogue so I was just asking about the trading license, but didn’t expect much on that. Tho I just wondered if it might’ve been possible to shut down the barter menu itself instead, UI mods like Skyrim Soul and Toggle UI are able to selectively target the barter menu to slow time or hide it respectively, for example.

 

As for crafting, I was thinking of the ‘Crafting Crossroads - Only One Crafting Skill’ mod when I wrote my comment, and whether it would’ve been possible to do something similar but just swap the condition from perks to licenses.

 

But I do not know how Licenses works under the hood, so I was just wondering if it was possible, it’s not a big deal, I enjoy Licenses as it is too. Thanks for the reply

Edited August 14, 2025 by 40Karats

[Nuascura]

11 hours ago, 40Karats said:

Tho I just wondered if it might’ve been possible to shut down the barter menu itself instead, UI mods like Skyrim Soul and Toggle UI are able to selectively target the barter menu to slow time or hide it respectively, for example.

Skyrim Souls is an SKSE DLL mod, which is out of scope for Licenses because we are papyrus based. We only at most use functions from Po3PE and SPE as extender functions, whereas Skyrim Souls executes its functions wholly with C++.

 

11 hours ago, 40Karats said:

As for crafting, I was thinking of the ‘Crafting Crossroads - Only One Crafting Skill’ mod when I wrote my comment, and whether it would’ve been possible to do something similar but just swap the condition from perks to licenses.

I downloaded this mod to check it out. It uses the OnSit event, which CK wiki says is unreliable. But people can edit the wiki with anecdotal and incompletely investigated claims, so I can't say for sure if it's true. That was the reason why I didn't use the event when I scripted Licenses' crafting table detection feature. I guess technically we could do your idea for Crafting License, but that depends on precisely when OnSit actually executes its event - and again, milliseconds count. I'll leave it for when I have time to investigate.

Edited August 14, 2025 by Nuascura

[shanyu]

Finally got around to updating my modlist, removing Sexlab Survival  and bringing in Licenses (And LMAO - Tolls) to cover that old aspect and.... I don't know what made me wait so long.   EXCELLENT work Nuascura, both in the mod and in the customizations you offer for the experience.   The dialogue- the CHOICE between the normal and kinky dialogue- there's so much to like.  I'm still tinkering around with options here to find what best meets my needs.   Clean interface and clean experience (so far).

I do have to throttle down the default prices a bit- I play with a lot of mods that cut down on lootable-and-resellable things (including carry weight) and that, paired with "trade and barter" already nullifies a good part of the "excess gold" problem early and midgame.   I use this more for the challenging situations it can put my character in, not a gold sink.  To that end, unexpected ways to lose/expire a license add to the fun. (Taking a "shortcut swim" between Morthal and Solitude now includes the real risk of losing some licenses on the way).   If I was going to beg for enhancements, it'd be for other ways for licenses to frustratingly disappear. (dishonest guards, bump pickpockets, maybe...

Funnily- I haven't encountered water damage through this mod yet.   Does this cover just swimming in water or does it also look at things like Frostfall's "wet" status? 

I will admit to missing Survival's license-denial dialogue.   The randomness of survival's dismissive misogyny paired well with the ambitious heroine desperate to get her gear back so she can go out and start paying back the huge loan she just took out to afford the licenses.  ("Go away, we're out of forms." "I haven't even had my morning mead yet" "Do you have the administrative fee?" "I need motivated").   Still, that's a minor loss compared to what's gained here-  and it wouldn't necessarily be a good fit here, as the dialogue wouldn't necessarily fit the personalities of stewards or the setting where any guard can issue a license.    

The only other thing that I can say that I haven't found a replacement for is some begging dialogue.  A guard just confiscated the armor off your back and left you standing at the main gate in the buff, hiding yourself from passers-by.  It's the perfect moment to pleading for something as simple as a threadbare tunic to wear just to be at risk of further humiliation by the guard-- hopefully BEFORE being fined for public nudity, too. 

Survival lumped so many unrelated things together that still sometimes paired very well and there's really no reason to bake begging into this mod.   If I found one, I imagine it would just trigger well after the confiscation scene.  There's a benefit in sometimes not squeezing TOO MUCH into one mod.

Thanks again

[Nuascura]

Glad you're enjoying the mod!

 

On 8/15/2025 at 5:58 AM, shanyu said:

Does this cover just swimming in water or does it also look at things like Frostfall's "wet" status? 

No. We only look at whether your character is in a swimming state.

 

On 8/15/2025 at 5:58 AM, shanyu said:

I do have to throttle down the default prices a bit

For a data point, I'd be curious to know what your set prices are, or how much you've throttled them down.

[Asgir546]

Hello, I get CTD when a guard approaches me for being armored while I don't have a license. The Crashlog heavily implies the problem is from SkyrimSE.exe and papyrus. Any idea ?

[kamithemoon]

On 8/14/2025 at 2:58 PM, shanyu said:

The only other thing that I can say that I haven't found a replacement for is some begging dialogue.  A guard just confiscated the armor off your back and left you standing at the main gate in the buff, hiding yourself from passers-by.  It's the perfect moment to pleading for something as simple as a threadbare tunic to wear just to be at risk of further humiliation by the guard-- hopefully BEFORE being fined for public nudity, too. 
 

Maybe you want Immersive Speechcraft?  It adds begging dialogue if you're wearing ragged or cheap clothes.  You could probably easily modify it so it's available if you're naked too.  I use it mostly just to add additional options for use with speechcraft.  It's also a way of acquiring interesting items off of an NPC other than stealing them, by bartering.

[Asgir546]

On 8/23/2025 at 3:19 PM, Asgir546 said:

Hello, I get CTD when a guard approaches me for being armored while I don't have a license. The Crashlog heavily implies the problem is from SkyrimSE.exe and papyrus. Any idea ?

NVM, was caused by SFM and not this mod.

[VahzahVulom]

can you make it so that they ask for the license before fining/arresting you as i buy a license then they fine/arrest me for not having it first time install not sure if ive done something incorrectly

[shanyu]

On 8/23/2025 at 6:21 AM, Nuascura said:

For a data point, I'd be curious to know what your set prices are, or how much you've throttled them down.

I'm rethinking that right now.   I tend to lose interest in characters by mid-20 levels, so these aren't really reflecting the loot values of higher-end drops. 

I thought I'd found a good balance, but I was playing a mostly non-crafter that was relying on Honed Metal for my equipment improvement and enchantment .   Default Honed Metal combined with Breakable Equipment (degradation enabled) PLUS Trade & Barter on "medium" setting was already bleeding my warrior woman nearly broke and I wasn't able to find a more reasonable cost setting there (though it did make me appreciate the less-talented (and less expensive) smiths out there. 

 

 My goal was to make a character sometimes have to humble themselves down to helping serve food (radiant prostitution) at the local inn just to pay for a room for the night and I was already pretty close there.  Home buying was already out-- At Your Own Pace's default home costs saw to that. I halved the default values of licenses because they were far easier to predict compared to Honed Metal smiths. then quartered it and still found myself going magic-less rather than pay for that extra license.   Stashing gear outside the gate became a very common tactic to reduce license needs further.  Risking an adventure with a weapon and whatever-armor-drops-from-your-first-foe was tricky fun.  AVOIDING license enforcement became a fun consideration for my otherwise law-abiding imperial.   

1/4 the default It really hit the mark for me there.

 

---

Then I tried those same settings on a crafter-dominant build that just recruited and equipped combat hirelings.   I THOUGHT that between crafting/trade licenses PLUS Trade & Barter (medium difficulty), PLUS Time Flies substantially reducing what you can get made-for-sale in a day, PLUS devious followers / NFF hireling fees I'd have even more money challenges, but I never had an issue finding the cash to buy even at default rates.  I wasn't "I can by a house with AYOP installed" rich but not hurting for it.  Saving myself the cost of repairing/enhancing/enchanting gear was just too good of a deal.

This is a Khajiit (dagi-rhat) merchant/crafter with all-khajiit hirelings that mostly stayed in "Basil's caravan homes" outside the major cities so I avoided the room rental rates, but that's minor in comparison.. and  I did inflate LMAO's gate guard fees to offset some of that (they charge more for khajiit because they KNOW the trouble they'll bring).   

 

Once I had the cash for the licenses, it no longer affected my play much.  Sure, It kept me farther away from owning a home, but... meh...  this Khajiit may miss the warm sands of her homeland, but she still prefers the open night sky over a warm hearth.  The license DENIAL after expiration did more to impact play than the license itself did.   If they all hit at once, I couldn't craft and had to accompany my guards on missions a little worse-equipped (I refused to cheat and let minions give her her good (unlicensed) gear).

Rather than bump licenses up higher, I've added "sexy adventures" to the list, seeing if the sleep thief can add a reasonable degree of random cash-loss-risk I need to tweak the settings a bit more.  I went too high on the limits and it only took one bad night theft (and VERY BAD dice rolls on devious followers' gold game) to get her completely broke and collared. I guess that's success depending on your goals.




 

[funkbottom]

Might I suggest hunting and fishing licenses?

[noctred]

Are there any known issues with Licenses and LMAO's world changes?

 

I have LMAO's license control enabled. I received courier letters indicating that armor/magic/weapon licenses are now in effect. I see the license status as "Invalid" in the Licenses MCM for all of the above. I have rule enforcement toggled on for towns and cities. However, I never get stopped by guards. I can equip armor and weapons, swing swords and cast spells in front of their faces and they're just chillin. I tried running the refresh functions in the MCM's debug tab, but no change.

 

Am I missing something with how this is supposed to behave or is this bugged?

Edited September 3, 2025 by noctred

[Nuascura]

6 hours ago, noctred said:

Are there any known issues with Licenses and LMAO's world changes?

 

I have LMAO's license control enabled. I received courier letters indicating that armor/magic/weapon licenses are now in effect. I see the license status as "Invalid" in the Licenses MCM for all of the above. I have rule enforcement toggled on for towns and cities. However, I never get stopped by guards. I can equip armor and weapons, swing swords and cast spells in front of their faces and they're just chillin. I tried running the refresh functions in the MCM's debug tab, but no change.

 

Am I missing something with how this is supposed to behave or is this bugged?

Better to report this to joshThor directly. 

 

If you believe something with Licenses isn't acting correctly in this use case with LMAO, then your other best option is to first test without LMAO installed, especially because we all have different mod setups.

[UhNoThanks]

hihi, i'm not sure if it's intentional, but the Licenses - Ambience.esp requires SexLab.esm, but the description only says it requires SexlabAroused.esm. i've been using this mod for a long time in my sexlab setup, but i'm trying to use this mod in an ostim setup now and just noticed this issue

[Nuascura]

12 hours ago, UhNoThanks said:

hihi, i'm not sure if it's intentional, but the Licenses - Ambience.esp requires SexLab.esm, but the description only says it requires SexlabAroused.esm. i've been using this mod for a long time in my sexlab setup, but i'm trying to use this mod in an ostim setup now and just noticed this issue

Thanks for letting me know about the unused master. That was a quick and easy removal via xEdit. I've updated the Ambience plugin under 1.25.1.1.

[UhNoThanks]

2 hours ago, Nuascura said:

Thanks for letting me know about the unused master. That was a quick and easy removal via xEdit. I've updated the Ambience plugin under 1.25.1.1.

oh nice! glad i could help lol. the dialogue from this mod is kinda my favorite part and i was excited to use it in this next playthrough, so thanks for the speedy update ^^