What do you HATE MOST about VANILLA Skyrim?

[Mrs Taewa]

Where do I start? I can't just name one top hatred O.o... I will put it this way though, if it wasn't for Mods, my copy of Skyrim would be long gone and never looked at again.

I have played Modded for so long, I can't really relate to the bugs anymore, but there are a few issues I remember that I hated, the top four most hated:

1/ The railroading, it may actually be my primary hate really.

a) The MQ, Delphine wants you to talk to Brynjolf, Brynjolf won't help unless you set that Dumner up and join the TG (aside from Brynjolf harrassing the living shit out of you if you don't want to speak with him and do his job) AND can't destroy the TG, that REALLY pissed me off in vanilla. Then having to go to the College to find the Elder Scroll, NO I am NOT a bloody Mage, so NO I DON'T want to bloody join, I just want help finding the bloody Scroll! Unless somehow I magiaclly know about the old man living in the Ice Cave.

b) The Vigilant who harrasses the shit out of you in Markarth is another one, I got sick of having to take the long way around to avoid that idiot.

c) Serana... Key words "Vampire Hunter" has a sudden love in with random Todd waifu Vamp girl, she gives him almost no information to go off, her responses being, "I'd rather not talk about it", you are suddenly transported into number one sycophant, do anything she says, bend over and let her do whatever she wants...whilst her complaining all the time, "I don't like the sun", "not another cave", "i'd rather be outside", "i'd rather be inside"...and oh yes, I have trope daddy issues. Take a random guess I can't stand Serana lol

2/ The Combat and Stealth, hack and slash at ninja slide damage sponges with an arrow in their head and the dagger or light one handed sword your carry is as heavy as a two headed war hammer...oh and if you get knocked over it's going to take you three hours to stand up again. The stealth, kill all but one bandit with a bow, the bandit surrounded by dead bodies, "what a nice day, nothing happening", he won't see you anyway, despite being inches from him.

3/ The fuglies, I don't want supermodels in my game, but DAMN! There is such a thing as water, take a bloody bath...Plus wrinkles galore at what? 20 years old? I'm 53 and have a hell of a lot less wrinkles than that lot O.o

4/ SkyrimAE...yes, that's fine console players and those who can't Mod might want the extra poor quaility CC contents, but for the rest of us, I'm far from a fan of having that junk forced on me, when I Mod I choose quality, I had to not only eventually upgrade my game to include that junk, but then had to find Mods to get rid of it O.o

Honorary Mention: Delphine and Maven...just kill them already O.o

Edited September 18, 2023 by Mrs Taewa
Spelling errors

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Wolfstorm321 said:

The remake option, obviously. If Bethesda was a serious studio, they would have released TES VI in 2018, and TES VII this year. Instead they released Fallout 76 and Starfield... 

 

But the worst part of it is not Bethesda, but its fanboys. 

Specially those fanboys who talk trash about Bethesda, and then ran to buy Starfield now, because of "muh modding tools". 

I used to call them cabbagers, but now with Starfield, they are obsessing over potatoes. 

But lets just see them for what they are: lemmings. 

To be honest, the only Bethesda games I've ever bought were Skyrim SE and Fallout 4.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Mrs Taewa said:

a) The MQ, Delphine wants you to talk to Brynjolf, Brynjolf won't help unless you set that Dumner up and join the TG (aside from Brynjolf harrassing the living shit out of you if you don't want to speak with him and do his job) AND can't destroy the TG, that REALLY pissed me off in vanilla. Then having to go to the College to find the Elder Scroll, NO I am NOT a bloody Mage, so NO I DON'T want to bloody join, I just want help finding the bloody Scroll! Unless somehow I magiaclly know about the old man living in the Ice Cave.

b) The Vigilant who harrasses the shit out of you in Markarth is another one, I got sick of having to take the long way around to avoid that idiot.

 

c) Serana... Key words "Vampire Hunter" has a sudden love in with random Todd waifu Vamp girl, she gives him almost no information to go off, her responses being, "I'd rather not talk about it", you are suddenly transported into number one sycophant, do anything she says, bend over and let her do whatever she wants...whilst her complaining all the time, "I don't like the sun", "not another cave", "i'd rather be outside", "i'd rather be inside"...and oh yes, I have trope daddy issues. Take a random guess I can't stand Serana lol

I get that. I know why they do it, but it's so annoying. No, I don't want to join a gang of robbers. I prefer to rob people on my own terms. No, I don't want to become a "professional mage". I'll learn magic on my own, thanks. No, I don't want to help you search a random ass house. For all I know, you'll try to rape me in there. 

I think Serana was pretty cute, but hearing her whine constantly was extremely annoying. Also, I understand her issues with her dad (I had major issues with my own), but come on. I don't want to be subjected to a vampire soap opera. Twilight was bad enough.

32 minutes ago, Mrs Taewa said:

2/ The Combat and Stealth,

For me, the stealth in the game was shit. At the beginning, it was almost impossible to be sneaky. Enemies could spot you from a mile away if you stuck a toe out. It made me avoid using stealth at all. But then I ended up with missions where I had to use stealth, so I had to find a way to upgrade it so I could do those missions. It only took for-fucking-ever, as one of my girlfriends, Babydoll, would say.

35 minutes ago, Mrs Taewa said:

3/ The fuglies, I don't want supermodels in my game, but DAMN! There is such a thing as water, take a bloody bath...Plus wrinkles galore at what? 20 years old? I'm 53 and have a hell of a lot less wrinkles than that lot O.o

My grandfather is in his 70s and looks better than the 20 year olds in this game.

35 minutes ago, Mrs Taewa said:

4/ SkyrimAE...yes, that's fine console players and those who can't Mod might want the extra poor quaility CC contents, but for the rest of us, I'm far from a fan of having that junk forced on me, when I Mod I choose quality, I had to not only eventually upgrade my game to include that junk, but then had to find Mods to get rid of it O.o

Do I need to comment here?

36 minutes ago, Mrs Taewa said:

Honorary Mention: Delphine and Maven...just kill them already O.o

I especially agree with the Maven part. That bitch can get eaten by a dragon.

[Wolfstorm321]

1 hour ago, Mrs Taewa said:

a) The MQ, Delphine wants you to talk to Brynjolf, Brynjolf won't help unless you set that Dumner up and join the TG (aside from Brynjolf harrassing the living shit out of you if you don't want to speak with him and do his job) AND can't destroy the TG, that REALLY pissed me off in vanilla. Then having to go to the College to find the Elder Scroll, NO I am NOT a bloody Mage, so NO I DON'T want to bloody join, I just want help finding the bloody Scroll! Unless somehow I magiaclly know about the old man living in the Ice Cave.

 

 

Kek, I didn't even know about this. Finished the main quest without needing to ever visit the Thieves Guild. 

I played vanilla in 2011 but dumped the game before that point... 

[Mrs Taewa]

9 minutes ago, DeadJester226 said:

I get that. I know why they do it, but it's so annoying. No, I don't want to join a gang of robbers. I prefer to rob people on my own terms. No, I don't want to become a "professional mage". I'll learn magic on my own, thanks. No, I don't want to help you search a random ass house. For all I know, you'll try to rape me in there. 

I think Serana was pretty cute, but hearing her whine constantly was extremely annoying. Also, I understand her issues with her dad (I had major issues with my own), but come on. I don't want to be subjected to a vampire soap opera. Twilight was bad enough.

For me, the stealth in the game was shit. At the beginning, it was almost impossible to be sneaky. Enemies could spot you from a mile away if you stuck a toe out. It made me avoid using stealth at all. But then I ended up with missions where I had to use stealth, so I had to find a way to upgrade it so I could do those missions. It only took for-fucking-ever, as one of my girlfriends, Babydoll, would say.

My grandfather is in his 70s and looks better than the 20 year olds in this game.

Do I need to comment here?

I especially agree with the Maven part. That bitch can get eaten by a dragon.

Yes, I understand people having childhood issues continuing to impact on their lives, we all have issues, some much worse than others, I get that, but how far does a friendship go if that's all you hear about from that person? As for myself in regards to Serana, I attended an all girl School (stuff of nightmares right there...AND many daddy issues) and I have three daughters (now grown), so you could probably well understand my reaction to Serana lol O.o ...I did use three Mods to make her less aggravating, but recently found a Mod with which you can actually kill her and still complete the quest line, was an immediate download from me

The stealth I found the opposite problem really, but that's because I move in extreme 'slo mo', it has been suggested to me repeatedly that I should Stream my Game, but I honestly think it would bore the shit out of people, I REALLY take my time in everything (except while in melee).

Maven, I think you might appreciate then what I have been doing to her in my current Game ...Destroyed both the TG and the DB using Mods from the same Author and can tell Maven what you have done, that really pissed her off ...plus busted her on a Skooma trade (another Mod)... plus stole the horse, helped that other guy steal mead from her... plus got her daughter pregant   ...next I will be aggro'ing her two sons and let the Guards kill them, then I will put their bodies on spikes and decorating the front of Mavens house with them ...If you can think of anything else I can do to her, I'm all ears

[Mrs Taewa]

5 minutes ago, Wolfstorm321 said:

 

 

Kek, I didn't even know about this. Finished the main quest without needing to ever visit the Thieves Guild. 

I played vanilla in 2011 but dumped the game before that point... 

The way around talking to Brynjolf is either to speak with the Argonian in the Tavern, or just go straight to Esburns hide out... either way they're RP breaking though, because you need to magially know there's a way around Brynjolf.

[Darkpig]

1 hour ago, Mrs Taewa said:

Maven, I think you might appreciate then what I have been doing to her in my current Game ...Destroyed both the TG and the DB using Mods from the same Author and can tell Maven what you have done, that really pissed her off ...plus busted her on a Skooma trade (another Mod)... plus stole the horse, helped that other guy steal mead from her... plus got her daughter pregant   ...next I will be aggro'ing her two sons and let the Guards kill them, then I will put their bodies on spikes and decorating the front of Mavens house with them ...If you can think of anything else I can do to her, I'm all ears

Turn her into a mannequin? Spank her until she cries? Although simple problems require simple solutions. Throw her in hole problem gone.

[belegost]

This poll is badly designed. It should have been multiple choice, not just one. Also, where is "all of the above" option?

 

But if I were to pick one, it would be fishing that draw the line. Not the fact, that it was re-released n-times, but fishing specifically. I hate fishing in games. Hated it in LOTRO when it was suddenly implemented for no good reason, Minecraft, Stardew Valley, Graveyard Keeper, Wartales and everywhere else.

Edited September 18, 2023 by belegost

[belegost]

32 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Throw her in hole problem gone.

Sightless Pit.

[Mrs Taewa]

31 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Turn her into a mannequin? Spank her until she cries? Although simple problems require simple solutions. Throw her in hole problem gone.

All very good ideas lmao ...though another suggested to me elsewhere has come out as my favourite, build the house in Morthal Swamp (I use the Marshlands Mod with Nature of the Wildlands, plus a number of Monsters in there)...use a Follower Framework Mod to force create a Follower out of her and then set her up as the Steward in the Morthal house and leave her there to rot ...apparently the AI package is the steward goes to town each day? That would be the icing on the cake, just go and watch her one day traverse through my Marshlands dealing with the monsters lol

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, belegost said:

This poll is badly designed. It should have been multiple choice, not just one. Also, where is "all of the above" option?

 

Dude. Seriously? You just had to be a judgmental jerk about how I made my poll? You couldn’t just have fun like the rest of us?

Here’s a little advice for you. If you don’t like my poll, then go somewhere else. I’m not changing it because you don’t like it.

Edited September 18, 2023 by DeadJester226

[belegost]

4 minutes ago, DeadJester226 said:

Dude. Seriously? You just had to be a judgmental jerk about how I made my poll? You couldn’t just have fun like the rest of us?

Here’s a little advice for you. If you don’t like my poll, then go somewhere else. I’m not changing it because you don’t like it.

Why are you so defensive, again? You take this stuff way too seriously. I am having fun. Chill out.

Edited September 18, 2023 by belegost

[Guest]

6 hours ago, belegost said:

Why are you so defensive, again? You take this stuff way too seriously. I am having fun. Chill out.

I'm being defensive? Do I need to remind you that you took something I said defensively, even when I said "This is not an attack on you"? Next time, take your own advice.

Also, nothing you said indicated that it was a joke, so don't give me crap for taking it personally.

[shadowlord445]

I fucking hate the thieves guild

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, shadowlord445 said:

I fucking hate the thieves guild

The thing I couldn't stand about the Thieves Guild was the fact that nothing about its storyline made any sense. It had more holes in it than Spongebob's body.

[Mez558]

To play Devil's Advocate.

 

There's a lot of hate and criticism for a game that was released at the end of 2011.

Was there any better SP, sandbox, RPG available around that time? Especially one where the player got to define and design their own protagonist?

Also, if everyone thought it was so shit to start with the mod creators would not have bothered making mods for it and consumers wouldn't have bothered learning to install those mods and get them all to play nice with each other (I accept there are still those that haven't managed that last part yet) I doubt anyone thought

"I hate this game, it's shit. I am going to put loads of effort and time into trying to make it better."

 

Of course if you did only install Skyrim because it has the most sex mods available then... Umm... yeah. Moving on.
 

There's plenty about Skyrim that could've been done better but it is 12yrs old! So, are you judging it by it's contemporaries or by later mods that improved on it or later games where the developers have had the chance to look at Skyrim and make sure they didn't make the same mistakes?

 

I can't say any of the criticisms here are wrong but "hate" is a bit harsh.

Skyrim is like Cher from 1998. An absolute star back in her day but by the late 90's only relevant thanks to plastic surgery and auto-tune.
 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Mez558

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Mez558 said:

To play Devil's Advocate.

 

There's a lot of hate and criticism for a game that was released at the end of 2011.

Was there any better SP, sandbox, RPG available around that time? Especially one where the player got to define and design their own protagonist?

Also, if everyone thought it was so shit to start with the mod creators would not have bothered making mods for it and consumers wouldn't have bothered learning to install those mods and get them all to play nice with each other (I accept there are still those that haven't managed that last part yet) I doubt anyone thought

"I hate this game, it's shit. I am going to put loads of effort and time into trying to make it better."

 

Of course if you did only install Skyrim because it has the most sex mods available then... Umm... yeah. Moving on.
 

There's plenty about Skyrim that could've been done better but it is 12yrs old! So, are you judging it by it's contemporaries or by later mods that improved on it or later games where the developers have had the chance to look at Skyrim and make sure they didn't make the same mistakes?

 

I can't say any of the criticisms here are wrong but "hate" is a bit harsh.

Skyrim is like Cher from 1998. An absolute star back in her day but by the late 90's only relevant thanks to plastic surgery and auto-tune.
 

 

It's not that the game is bad, per se. There are enjoyable things about it that make the game worth playing, but there's just so many flaws that should have been addressed but weren't. That's where the problems come in. It doesn't help the matter when Bethesda releases new versions of the game, but the issues are still there. For example, in the Companions quest, there's a quest-breaking bug after the Silver-Hand attacks Jorrvaskr. When you talk to Vilkas, after he's done talking about getting payback, the quest won't advance and you can't continue. This is an issue in every version of Skyrim. These are things that Bethesda knows about but won't fix. Also, the game being old isn't really a defense. It's like saying that Superman 64 is just a harshly judged game because it's from the N64 era. It's also no excuse for the newer versions being just as broken. They could have easily fixed the issues with the original game and upgraded the newer versions to make the game better than ever, but they didn't.

Also, yes. There is another sandbox game from 2011 with RPG elements that's better than Skyrim, imo. Minecraft. A game where the only true limit is your imagination.

[RandomKhajiit]

nazeem is annoying and pathetic as hell, the fact the blades are in it at all and being a genocidal bunch of idiots is pathetic half ass writing and design, the racism and approval of the nords genocide of the snow elves all because the nords landed in skyrim after wiping out another race of elves on atmora, and what the hell is with the thalmor they lie thru they teeth about everything and everyone believes them? really friggen stupid.....the sudden ability for some new faction to bypass dark brotherhood doors is a great insult also. and btw the Morag tong don't act like hired thugs that's the comana tong aka morrowinds mafia. and don't get me started on harkon and miraak...

[Kuroyami]

On 9/17/2023 at 9:59 PM, Mrs Taewa said:

3/ The fuglies, I don't want supermodels in my game, but DAMN! There is such a thing as water, take a bloody bath...Plus wrinkles galore at what? 20 years old? I'm 53 and have a hell of a lot less wrinkles than that lot O.o

 

This gets arguably worse when you consider modding. Overall, you can expect that perhaps most are likely to use mods that improve female characters, and although this may be stretching it, most vanilla female assets don't look that bad(though some textures this obviously cannot apply to, alongside some other assets...).

 

But I honestly think I'd at least disagree with the game's visual appearance of male characters. Save for Argonians and Khajiit, all the others have the same problem - as mentioned, you cannot make a character that reasonably looks say, under 30(if not higher...). Any vanilla characters which seem to have the suggestion of being quite young? If they are male? Nope. Even if you take off everything that supposedly would not be a wrinkled face, the base texture is still there, with fucking wrinkles. Or at least looking too old, as mentioned. Though it may be more down to the male head model, which seemingly can't look younger than 40.

 

Another point on visuals - the fact that Skyrim uses vectored colors for various things is good, in contrast with Oblivion having separate textures for each race, where you couldn't really vary the skin-tone that much, without it looking ridiculous(and even this gets worse, since some textures are shared between races). I'm not even mentioning the fact that the game(Oblivion) SHIPPED with a neckseam issue that they never bothered to fix. But as for the point? Mostly for Skyrim's skin textures(and even better with modded ones), this is an overall good thing, especially with mods allowing basically any color you want. But, for the hair? Yeah, if you want to use the vanilla colors, it might not look too bad. Though if you go for grey, white, or black(or some variation thereof...), you notice a yellow or green tint which little to nothing can fix. Why does this happen? The vanilla hair textures are blonde. Unlike the technically more neutral fair-skinned skin textures(though even those can have issues), the hair textures being colored that way, means you cannot get the exact color you want. Since the green(for darker tones) or yellow(for lighter tones), will always be there.

 

Additionally, I previously mentioned shortsightedness. If you consider the base line story of the main quest, I wouldn't call it strictly bad, but it has many questionable choices, or occasionally, a lack thereof. The Bleak Falls Barrow quest, the only thing I'd call a problem might be not so obvious - you have one of the largest Barrows in the game, and what lore is there about the structure's original purpose? Is the Draugr holding the Dragonstone a named enemy? Other than the additional side quest the location provides(which has the benefit of beginning either in Riverwood, or in the Barrow itself). Same goes for the Barrow quest too, where you can get the Dragonstone before starting the quest, and just about skip it, technically.

 

But the larger issue begins with your first visit to Whiterun, at least if it's to start the MQ. A random person bringing news of an attack on Helgen by Dragons? Sure, you could at first take this as a lie. But if you've already heard rumors of Dragons before this person comes before you, it could be the start of a pattern. So you humor them, since it might benefit you. The problem begins with Dragon Rising, when the word Dragonborn starts getting thrown around. Sure, it's defined nearly as soon as you've heard it - being one means you can shout like the dragons, and since you heard that dragon(as an example) breathing fire? Maybe that's what Shouts are(nevermind the Dragons don't always actually speak when they breath their chosen element...), alongside being tied to that Word Wall you saw in the Barrow. But after this, the explanation NEVER brings up one point - your race. I'm not taking in a specifically racist sense, but rather it as a fact. If your a Nord? The Guards don't say much, since that falls just about in line with the stories, at least for any who believe Tiber was a Nord. Maybe the same goes for a Breton or Imperial. But if nearly anything else? They would at least point it out as unusual.

 

Yep, these guys say nothing about not only an Argonian killing a Dragon, but from what they know, seem to be Dragonborn.

Spoiler

 

Yet, there is one more point. Balgruff's dialog before Dragon Rising's completion. You bring up that you are Dragonborn, since you heard it from the Guards. But, for some reason, no matter the race, he asks in a tone suggesting you shouldn't know, "What do you know about the Dragonborn?". EVEN, if you chosen race, is...a...NORD, who many should almost expect to be Dragonborn.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Kuroyami

[MadMansGun]

On 9/17/2023 at 5:45 AM, DeadJester226 said:

There was no other way to access the tomb, right?

the last room has a back door.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

the last room has a back door.

The one where you find the note? I know, but here's the issue. That door can only be opened from the inside, meaning that Delphine couldn't have been able to open it without having to first get through everything else. Either that, or there's a switch that 99% of players don't know about.

[karlpaws]

On 9/17/2023 at 7:45 AM, DeadJester226 said:

So we had to learn the first word of Whirlwind Sprint to be able to access the tomb of Jurgen Windcaller to retrieve his horn, right?

 

So... how did Delphine retrieve the horn without it? Does she know something we don't? There was no other way to access the tomb, right?

 

Plot holes and plot armor.  The game has the location quest locked so we don't go in early and mess up the story by being someplace without a background.  The location isn't locked and only unlocked by the person knowing the word, otherwise the necromancers you fight in the first chamber would not be there either.  Of course, how Delphine got in, planted the note and stole the horn... that's the plot hole.  Maybe she was there before the necromancers woke everything up. Who knows.

 

Little things like that I have gotten over and don't hate so much any more, since they are due more to game mechanics and engine programming than actual lore.  I guess the part of vanilla Skyrim is the obvious sloppiness that people take seriously.  That and the reconning that ESO and books have done that make it hard to figure out what is real.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, karlpaws said:

 

Plot holes and plot armor.  The game has the location quest locked so we don't go in early and mess up the story by being someplace without a background.  The location isn't locked and only unlocked by the person knowing the word, otherwise the necromancers you fight in the first chamber would not be there either.  Of course, how Delphine got in, planted the note and stole the horn... that's the plot hole.  Maybe she was there before the necromancers woke everything up. Who knows.

 

Little things like that I have gotten over and don't hate so much any more, since they are due more to game mechanics and engine programming than actual lore.  I guess the part of vanilla Skyrim is the obvious sloppiness that people take seriously.  That and the reconning that ESO and books have done that make it hard to figure out what is real.

I have OCD, so it's a little harder for me to get over.

[karlpaws]

2 hours ago, DeadJester226 said:

I have OCD, so it's a little harder for me to get over.

 

I suppose one way to look at it, though no less jarring, is that there is a bit of "on the rails" aspect to the main game quest locations, which is really weird in a free for all open world type game.  At least with Serana's tomb, the place is blocked up and the game has no mechanic or player expectation that you can / would go excavating. When you do return / first visit the cave, that work has been done by the vampires and the Vigilant and there is no plot hole of someone else sneaking in.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, karlpaws said:

 

I suppose one way to look at it, though no less jarring, is that there is a bit of "on the rails" aspect to the main game quest locations, which is really weird in a free for all open world type game.  At least with Serana's tomb, the place is blocked up and the game has no mechanic or player expectation that you can / would go excavating. When you do return / first visit the cave, that work has been done by the vampires and the Vigilant and there is no plot hole of someone else sneaking in.

Right. I feel like Bethesda needs to work on their story telling a bit more. Don't get me wrong. That shit's not easy, but come on. It was just such an obvious thing that there was no excuse for missing.