Do user's even know???

[Guest kimbale]

Users wanna play, not make an effort.

[dobmc]

Humans are lazy, and lack imagination.

 

 

 

Users wanna play, not make an effort.

Great statement.

 

 

 

Im just confused as to why some user's (not all) seem to make outlandish and somwhat stupid comments.

I'm actually rejoicing at the fact that not all of the people are stupid. So as a product of evolution, we're not much of a failure.

[Groovtama]

@Demonhunter

People make request/demands because they like the mod/work someone is doing and want to contribute to it even if they don't have the needed modding skills, with ideas, opinions, etc. If the author doesn't like the idea they can still try to make it themselve. About time that's something nobody knows. Request/demands can infact be a good thing.

(For some mods which don't include their source scripts and you want to change the scripts there is no other solution than doing requests, or the author is kind and give them to you, but that's still requesting something^^)

 

General stuff

Some people who are new to the internet, see the internet more as a supermarket with free stuff. That this free stuff needs to be created and takes time doesn't occure to them. That every modding community is a community doesn't occure to them either, they just see it as a supermarket with free stuff. A community is different you help someone and you get help by smeone. In a supermarket if they get no chocolate cake anymore, they ask for more. if the supermarket never had chocolate cake they ask the manager why there is no chocolate cake for free. You can tell them there are eggs, butter, chocolate etc for free and so they can make a chocolate cake themselve but some will still ask why there is no chocolate cake for free. That is human nature, but has nothing in common with the requesting/demanding above.^^

[winny257]

there is nothing the modder have left for their fan community, which are then unpopular, stretch their mods are simply not used anymore and they disappear as quickly as they come! but then there is the modder are always available and taking the time for your community. where are a lot of gratitude, then points. so I can not understand that Demonhunter this topic has opened, with him are now 276 points!

 

german \ deutsch !

es gibt modder die nichts für ihre fan gemeinschaft übrig haben , die sind dann unbeliebt , dehn ihre mods werden dann einfach nicht mehr benutzt und sie verschwinden so schnell wie sie gekommen sind ! dann giebt es aber modder die immer erreichbar sind und sich die zeit für ihre gemeinschaft nehmen . bei denen stehen dann eine menge dankbarkeits punkte . deshalb kann ich nicht verstehen , daß Demonhunter dieses thema eröffnet hat , bei ihm stehen mittlerweile 276 punkte !

 

 

[Rayblue]

@Demonhunter: be glad there are those here who are sane enough to know when to ask and when not to, and do so in a polite and mature way (isn't it rare these days?).

 

It's easy to say that it's better to teach them kiddies how to catch fish than to ask for it, so they have to learn the hard way.

 

A modder know of sometimes receives requests about adding this and that to his player homes, such as fancy Papy scripts for which to strip off NPCs when taking a bath, and he'll reply politely that it's beyond his ability to code in Papyrus lest he runs the risk of ruining someone else's gamesaves with bad code. 

 

BTW, as an author you have the right to refuse.

[Guest airdance]

Why do people not do these mods themselves.

The reason is plain fear.

• All people fear failure, but what most people fear is having to work
• That being said, there are those who would try, but all they can see are the trees. they fear being lost in the forest.
• Most people are unaware that this system is software driven or that script codes are written in C++  they fear looking stupid
• most people do not know what a compiler is or an assembler.  They fear having to learn new things.
• some people are unsure of what to do or where to start to learn these things.  They fear having to ask help from arrogant people, who will put them down in a public forum.
• Last there are some who have never been exposed to programming. All they have done in there life is be a "user".  They fear messing up their system by trying something at which they have no clue as to what they are doing.

So this brings us to the old analogy of them that can do, those that cannot fear those that can.

 

your humble servant in total awe of the great and mighty Modders, thank you for your benevolence and the gifts you have bestowed upon us.

 

[Madmartigan34]

the only location that is the Center of Stupid.... is planet Earth.

 

Its not the Nexus, or any given video game community.

 

Its just humanity.

 

And its not going to change.

[Guest]

I don't have any grudge against people who are not mannered or polite, at least not against children. But people who can't simple read 5 lines of text, a really simple FAQ? Go to hell with them. Most of them asking stuff that is answered in the first sentence. Their demanding, demanding and demanding and they don't care - not the beggars - if we have to work, family or want to have some fun. Because their request are just small requests. They don't take time! I could do this in 2 or 5 minutes. That's what the beggars say...

 

Humans are different as we know and this is wonderful. Different in all kind of things, but one thing wich is necessary to live or to succeed is simple logic. Patterns. Most of the patterns that life is demanding, have you already learned as child. Your brain memorized simple pattern through playing, listening, reading, trial and error. Put people on the internet wich large amount of data, their starting to go insane.

 

I stopped helping others. From 10 new inbox message are 4 complains why I haven't answered yet. 3 Why I haven't answered (Message send 5 minutes ago). He could say I'm only and have to reply in five minutes. Dafuq is wrong with the people? Nothing. But somehow you hear less and less from the people who love your stuff, they can't stand against the wall of complaints and demands. IMHO!

 

OT: Actually somehow it's weird for me to be here on LL. Tested all the mods, it's nothing for me and still kind of weird but it seems that the people here are much more calm about everything. Love that.

 

@winny257

You can handle a remote for your TV. Now go buy a new TV and you will simply understand the new pattern for the new remote of your TV. Put people on the computer. Now suddenly they're starting to throw away simple logic driven patterns.

- Reading manual?

- 1+2 equal 5?

- Install Mod "Riverwood Reborn", Install Mod "Improved Riverwood", Install Mod "Sexy Riverwood Extended", Install Mod "Riverwood Sanctum", Install Mod "Riverwood Better Graphics" = "my game crash when i come near riverwood"

 

I love to give support, but at somepoint you cannot give support because the medium who requested support is WAAAAAAAAAAAY to stupid to handle simple support. Why? Their stopped reading and skipped to the part with "now load your game and have fun." I have a grudge against such people, I'm reading stuff I could have skipped and helped someone who really needs help.

 

BTW: Your english is to bad to be a programmer? Mod something yourself? That's absolutley not true. You don't have to know everything and don't need a high understanding knowledge of the languange. One thing you need is logic and endurance to understand the thing you are trying to do. My english is bad, just bad. Still working inside the industry.

 

 

[Rayblue]

Spoonfeeding can be quite a problem. Also the terrible lack of patience.

[Demonhunter]

I have to say, this has been very enlightening. 

I dont know how some people have thought tht my question was that i would not help others? ?? ????

My question was Do user's know how long modding can take. 

I agree with Winny257 about the different language issue's i think we will try to get translations of the installation instructions.

This is directly to Winny257.

You ask why i mod? 

I mod for myself and for the enjoyment of others. yes to some degree i love to get nice comments and feedback, points etc. 

But at some point the support has to stop. If you want proof of how many times we have had "how to install" or "My game crashes when i remove clothes" 

How many times do i need to say. "Read the discription" or "Install a proper skeleton" All links to these files have been put in the discription page. its not hard to follow a Five step installation process. But this is not what i asked. This thread has been taken way out of context. when did it becme about me not supporting those who have asked. 

I think yu'll find i have helped many user's here on LL and shit ton's on the nexus. if im asked i will help. 

im not in it anymore for popularity, im not good enough for that. I myself had to learn everything i know by myself, so i know how hard it is to start modding. thats why im more than happy to help those who ask me for it. 

I'm also wondering if modder's are as "seen but not heard" 

Because a simple question like do users know? has turned this into somthing else. I did not accuse anyone of being lazy, i did not accuse anyone as being stupid. this Question was really directed to the whole of user's not to a minority. I see these questions on not just the 7B mod page, but everywhere. 

The reason i posted this Question was because of This remark.

Author "This is my first mod"

User " Make a high res texture for this, because sorry but it looks crap like it is"

Most First time modders dont even know about high res textures. I was one of them.

 

But this is me saying thank you for the response's, it was enlightening to read.

[Groovtama]

You will always have people that do that stuff, but why letting them take you down. As long as you are fine with your work why other ruin it? In the first place you make something for yourself and if you think "that is awesome I want others to have it, too", you share it. And people will like it, too. Some will always say something bad about it, some are never happy with it, some will never listen to what you say, some will demand crazy stuff.

 

You just have to ignore people sometimes, that's how the whole internet works^^

[Demonhunter]

Yea i guess so. l REALLY LOVE MY "FANS" without the people who enjoy what i make, im nothing. i wasnt trying to offend people or even argue with them. i was statig somthing that i have seen, throughout the whole of the modding community. i suppose i should adopt a harder stance on request's and ignore the ones i dont want to do. 

 

[rawr22]

"Do user's understand what goes into the making and or the texturing of the mods made by us modders?"

 

You use something called 'nifskope' which I assume works just like Bodyslide but for all models in the game right?

 

Seriously I actually have no idea.  I've stuck to scripting myself as it is what I'm good at (relatively), and I know how long that takes.  I also know how frustrating it is when people ask the same questions over and over when it is answered in the description.  You need a lot of patience for modding and support, which is one reason why I don't do it anymore, but I'm glad others have more patience than I.

 

 

[Rasta the Lion]

One of the reasons why I don't release mods is there will always be people who aren't satisfied with the amount of content one modder has already provided for them. "I want this changed, I want that modified, I want more armors, this stuff is overpowered"....

 

...no thanks, I'd rather enjoy my own mods without other's opinions or requests.

[MasterAaran]

The arrogance of modders never ceases to amaze me. Your adoring fans give you all the attention

 

I'm sorry... I had to comment on this, I was going to make one on the topic anyway, but whilst reading through it, I read the above.

 

I do believe that the 'Adoring Fan' was one of the most annoying characters in Oblivion.....countless players wished to throw them off dive rock...Just sayin...(Not advocating that of course )

 

Users wanna play, not make an effort.

 

Absolutely right.

 

Unfortunately, the 'Give me' trend is something that is not exclusive to modding. I understand that sometimes even we modders may not appreciate the amount of fans that we have. BUT I also find that with knowledge comes understanding...and a little respect goes a long way. It would be unreasonable for all the users to know the details of modding to the point that they could create it themselves...therefore requests are not a problem. What I find annoying is the 'LACK OF RESPECT'....If you ask nicely and don't nag...you get a lot farther.

 

As I said, this 'Give me' trend isn't just in modding...working with people gets annoying because an innumberable amount of them just want things given to them and they don't want to have to... (insert word here...  Wait/work/pay/etc...). In my freelancing work, I find that say...75% of the people I deal with, didn't read the descriptions of the services that I offer. They expect things that I don't give...etc.

 

Just my thoughts...

 

-A-

[Valgo]

I would be telling lies if I'd say that I know how mutch time/energy it takes to mod something, because I do NOT know it.

However as someone who installs his mods most of the time without a modmanager and had/s many issues with that(Still have the Wettriggerscriptissue with Dragonborn^^) I know at least how confusing it can be to just find the right files in those hundreds of folders. Thinking about editing them with 3rdparty tool's i've never even heard of gives me headache and when I see someone talking about coding....I totally have to pass.

The closest thing to modding I ever did, was creating a custom radio station in saints row 4 and even then I needed the help of another User and a step by step guide that was actually intended for saints row the third. In the end: One radiostation worked as desired, the other one is just silence...don't ask me how I did that. I don't even know myself.

Well to stay on Topic: I can only imagine how hard or not hard it is to create a mod but I know that I have to be thankful if a person I don't know shares a file with me that makes my game better and that I wouldn't even think about beeing an asshole and demanding stuff from him or her. I can request something, I can discuss something and I can bring in my own ideas but thats about it. And even if the modder is arrogant...he has more right to be like that than a mod-user like me who doesn't do shit.

[s.eden]

Still, there is way to ask and way to propose, dialogue is based of will to communicate then to understand each others.

As to Nexus, the comments have some interesting (as to social behavior) over some comments sections.

For example, ETAC (Expanded Town and Cities) has a "community" (three Lady having access to the file and modding (at last partially, as miss Jenna is the goddess over that project, oh dear !). Then, add users who have used the mod for some months and come back, this I guess thanks to the personality of the lead moddess ().

Then, Frostfall & EFF, where the modder is alone, have developed some milestone mods. Then, as to keep things in shape, added policy points (as to bug reports, questions and so on).

This being a matter of moderation, a lesson almost as forgotten than the netiquette herself (may be even more, as the people interested as to how diplomacy work are far from being numerous).

This said, has been a long time since I last seen anything close to a tutorial dedicated to moderation over an internet "community".

[Demonhunter]

@Valgo

Dont get me wrong, i will help people who ask but its a two way street. Say if somone asked me how i did somthing, then i link them to a modeling program etc. i would like to think that they could play around with it and learn some stuff by themselves. Most modders, will link you to tutorials some will ignore you, some will help. id like to think that im a helper. i have written two tutorials on the basics of blender. more than enough to get a potential user into moding, my real question was basically about Demanding things, yes users do have the right to "ask" for things thats perfectly fine. But demanding makes me go loco. i was really pissed off when i made this thread, I have to say i do take ideas from users, we modders sometimes run out of things to make or cant imagine something, so ideas are good.

Also users are in most case's why modders share their work, i could be wrong but its why i do/did

 

[Yami X]

lol the thread title is like the modders version of bro do you even lift?

[Demonhunter]

        

[Ailsa]

This is a fascinating discussion.

 

I am not a modder though I have opened my copy of the CK twice and it immediately crashed my pc  .

 

When I see a mod that interests me I read and re-read the instructions carefully, I read all the comments and tips and then I decide if I am brave enough to add it to my game 

 

I personally really appreciate that skills I do not have are needed for these creations and I try to be very polite when I ask for help.  I have skills that many modders do not have that I have worked hard to achieve and very occasionally I feel denigrated by some of the responses I receive  (though never here   )

 

Sadly I feel that many people forget the constraints of old-fashioned courtesy when they are on-line, and as others have already mentioned, become like brats demanding "more" so I cannot blame modders for getting extremely fed up at times.

 

Just my little old fashioned 2 cents worth 

[Cloe]

Complains, requests or suggestions are all the part of modding experience. If people annoy you because they ask something it was already mentioned or demand more content, simply ignore those people and move away.

[winny257]

Complains, requests or suggestions are all the part of modding experience. If people annoy you because they ask something it was already mentioned or demand more content, simply ignore those people and move away.

 

not good!

 

do you know the saying "a question, is not a lawsuit!"

it all depends on how you ask, if you ask politely for something, then there is always an answer, "yes or no". not to respond would be the  invidious one thing there is. then we would need no forums where ordinary people provide suggestions and ask sometimes whether this or that could be done better. of course I also think it's no good if some people are not satisfied with anything that still motzen about really.

 

german \ deutsch !

 

nicht gut !

 

kennst du das sprichwort " eine frage , ist keine Klage " !

es kommt immer darauf an wie man fragt , wenn man höflich um etwas bittet , dann gibt es immer eine antwort ," ja oder nein " . nicht zu reagieren wäre das fieseste was es giebt . dann bräuchten wir auch keine foren , wo normale leute anregungen liefern und auch mal fragen , ob dies oder das besser gemacht werden könnte . natürlich finde ich es auch nicht gut , wenn gewisse leute mit nichts zufrieden sind , die dann noch so richtig herummotzen .

[hafertaler]

In regards to questions: at least 95% are redundant. It seems many people are too lazy to read and I think that's just wrong. I don't mod and I just have a basic understanding of it, but I know enough to understand that learning how to mod takes a LOT of time and creating a mod with that knowledge  - depending on the complexitiy - not necessarily less. 

The time spent on reading the opening post and the readme in comparison to that is just a joke and not being able or willing to do that is an insult in my eyes.

 

1. Read the opening post

2. Read the readme

3a. If there are still questions left: read the thread or

(3b). If there are too many pages, search the thread.

(3c). If there are still questions left and (3b) was applied: read the first two and last two pages

4. If there are still questions left: use a search engine

5. If there are still questions left: Ask politely your questions

 

Often there are even FAQ threads already existing for a complex mod but they usually get ignored anyway...

 

I think 80% + of all questions would be answered if people only follow the first two steps I posted above and I can't imagine that anyone would think that this is too much to ask for.

[Suludi]

LOL. Winny, ich mag deine automatischen Übersetzungen. Mach mal aus "herummotzen" ein "complain", dann können die anderen das auch verstehen.

 

As for the OP question: I'm beginning to understand how horribly complicated modding Skyrim is, and I thoroughly admire those who fight their way through it and get some results. I can create a landmass and place objects on it but the moment it comes to modelling, importing and exporting nif, hkx and all the rest, my brain explodes. And even if it doesn't explode, I can be sure that I need several converting programmes which I don't understand, and when I've gone through those, my favourite modding programme of choice (aka Blender) will refuse to accept anything even remotely skyrimy. And THEN there's the question of animating and texturing and scripting and questing and reuploading and packing everything and trying to get it to WORK. Hell, I couldn't even COPY a bloody MERCHANT. Not even after watching every single tutorial there is on YouTube.

 

Oh, and when I've finally managed to get something right, Skyrim smacks a bug into my esp that destroys everything. Yayness.

 

So yes, some of us understand.

 

Thank you guys. Honestly.