Skimpy Armor Keyword Resource (4/13/2023)

[raanferden]

Somewhat connected to my previous post, but I think it's separate enough to post separately. What do people think is the best way of tagging bodysuits? Like, how would everyone tag a one piece swimsuit, how would you tag a full catsuit (black widow, catwoman, etc), that sort of thing?

 

And to top it off, a few ideas for tagging. Not fully fleshed out though.

 

First of all, what about tags to signify that, while technically clothing, the wearer may as well not be wearing anything for all the good it does. (Crotchless pants, jackets/button-ups that are fully open and covering nothing of the front, hoodies that are cut off above the breasts, those sort of things)

 

Secondly, tags for open front tops, like, wearing an unbuttoned shirt, or a jacket, with it hanging open, but not so much that anything overly explicit would show.

 

Third, jackets/hoodie. Sure, they could technically be classed as tops, but what if someone is wearing a cropped open jacket over a tank top, or over a bodysuit. (GITS Motoko Kusanagi Outfit has cropped jackets)

 

And finally, tags for really skimpy things, like DX Fetish Fashion, because, honestly, I feel those sort of outfits should increase the skimpyness rating instead of decreasing it.

[Mr.Pritish]

anyone please give me a tutorial on how to use robco patcher to give ratings, please give any practical example of any armor via video.

[amorgan333]

[Bug?]

 

I am using the tags "sakr_kwd_pantsLong, sakr_kwd_pantsTagTight, sakr_kwd_pantsTagSheer" on a pair of pants with only the pants equipped and the rating it is giving me for lower body is 0 with exposure being false. This seems to be similar to the high heels/stockings bug. I am using SAKR 1.1.1

 

Is this correct?

 

Edit: I tested it with only the long and tight keywords and it seems to register correctly, but as soon as the sheer keyword is added the skimpy rating drops to 0

Edited April 12, 2023 by amorgan333

[pr0nsax]

Is it intended that default (no keywords anywhere) makes you fully exposed everywhere?

I'm thinking maybe it would be better if default was no exposure and then people can add keywords to the things they want to be skimpy.

Though an alternative could be a toggle key to toggle the override on/off quickly without having to go into the MCM.

[spicydoritos]

10 hours ago, raanferden said:

Somewhat connected to my previous post, but I think it's separate enough to post separately. What do people think is the best way of tagging bodysuits? Like, how would everyone tag a one piece swimsuit, how would you tag a full catsuit (black widow, catwoman, etc), that sort of thing?

 

And to top it off, a few ideas for tagging. Not fully fleshed out though.

 

First of all, what about tags to signify that, while technically clothing, the wearer may as well not be wearing anything for all the good it does. (Crotchless pants, jackets/button-ups that are fully open and covering nothing of the front, hoodies that are cut off above the breasts, those sort of things)

 

Secondly, tags for open front tops, like, wearing an unbuttoned shirt, or a jacket, with it hanging open, but not so much that anything overly explicit would show.

 

Third, jackets/hoodie. Sure, they could technically be classed as tops, but what if someone is wearing a cropped open jacket over a tank top, or over a bodysuit. (GITS Motoko Kusanagi Outfit has cropped jackets)

 

And finally, tags for really skimpy things, like DX Fetish Fashion, because, honestly, I feel those sort of outfits should increase the skimpyness rating instead of decreasing it.

 

I think for these cases, it's the spirit of the coverage that is most important, rather than close adherence to the name of the clothing item.  Here's how I, personally, would tag some of your examples:

 

One-piece swimsuit: bra and panties with whatever coverage matches your swimsuit best

 

Catsuit: top full, pants full, plus tight tag for both

 

Crotchless/Open-Boob clothing: no tags at all, everything is exposed

 

Unbuttoned shirt: top low cut, plus croptop (area between breasts is visible and so is part of stomach)

 

Jackets/hoodie: tag them as armor since they go on top of shirts usually

 

Strappy fetish wear: skimpiest underwear possible.

 

Some of these edge/overlap cases are a perfect use case for the armor bench keyword tagging mod.  Easier to classify your specific combination of layers and textures IMO.  Assuming you don't change clothing a lot.  ?

[deathmorph]

Any more collar keywords planned? Or are existing keywords suitable for this?

 

PS:

Again the question about the integration of vanilla clothing. I wanted to add keywords to CCO Saucy Settlers in FO4edit. Specially undershirt and jeans.

However, there is no "armor" section in the esp. And in the fallout4.esm, you can't add any keywords to the clothes. In SAKR, the player is listed as naked with 100 points.

What solution is there for this - at least until you can use the "old" system in parallel in SH?

Edited April 13, 2023 by deathmorph

[Spaceguest991]

So I got question what happens if you wear multiply items with the same keyword?

 

Like what if you both 2 items with armor top but one is armor top full and the other is armor top lewd. does the one that is armor top full win out?

 

Sorry if it's a stupid question trying to rack my brain with what keywords should go on what items, like Classy Chassis Outfits - Cheeky Casuals, Bathrobe item. Should I be using armor keywords? top and panty? both? I'm trying to figure it out if I wanted to share the ini on rubber_ducks repo.

[vaultbait]

11 hours ago, deathmorph said:

Any more collar keywords planned? Or are existing keywords suitable for this?

 

PS:

Again the question about the integration of vanilla clothing. I wanted to add keywords to CCO Saucy Settlers in FO4edit. Specially undershirt and jeans.

However, there is no "armor" section in the esp. And in the fallout4.esm, you can't add any keywords to the clothes. In SAKR, the player is listed as naked with 100 points.

What solution is there for this - at least until you can use the "old" system in parallel in SH?

 

For a replacer like the CCO collections, the form IDs will be the corresponding vanilla ARMO records from the original Fallout4.esm (or DLC), not a record from the replacer since as you observed there generally are none.

 

Edit: And to be clear, this means RobCo Patcher files corresponding to replacer collections should be separate downloads or optional choices in a FOMOD installer menu since they necessarily conflict with each other and any potential Patcher lists for the actual original clothing/armor too.

Edited April 14, 2023 by vaultbait

[deathmorph]

26 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

RobCo Patcher

 

Thanks for the hint.

I was hoping to do without RobCo Patcher, since my character only wears some of the vtaw clothes and the entry via fo4edit is therefore effective in terms of effort. Plus select clothes like jeans and singlet for example, which I carry with me as a replacement for destroyed CSL clothes.

I'm still hoping for an option that the index-based query can be switched on. That would be the most convenient solution for me. From a layperson's perspective: would it be possible to query whether SAKR keywords exist? If there is not a single keyword from SAKR in the clothing record, then the mod could automatically switch to the indexing system. Which is simple and effective in my view.

I don't want to question the work on the mod, please don't misunderstand me.

[vaultbait]

20 minutes ago, deathmorph said:

Thanks for the hint.

I was hoping to do without RobCo Patcher, since my character only wears some of the vtaw clothes and the entry via fo4edit is therefore effective in terms of effort. Plus select clothes like jeans and singlet for example, which I carry with me as a replacement for destroyed CSL clothes.

 

In that case all you have to do is copy the vanilla ARMO records as overrides into a new plugin, then make SKSE a master for that new plugin, and start adding keywords to the overridden records.

 

RobCo Patcher makes all of this far simpler than messing about with FO4Edit/FO4CK to create or alter plugins, since all Patcher needs to accomplish the same thing is a simple text file, but of course it's all a matter of what you're comfortable with.

 

20 minutes ago, deathmorph said:

From a layperson's perspective: would it be possible to query whether SAKR keywords exist? If there is not a single keyword from SAKR in the clothing record, then the mod could automatically switch to the indexing system. Which is simple and effective in my view.

 

That ceases to make sense the moment you put on a collar and the lack of SAKR keywords for the collar gets interpreted as the collar covering your entire body. Or a pair of gloves. Or stiletto heels in the BODY slot with no associated clothing.

[twistedtrebla]

I think there was a math error when calculating skimpy rating for pants/skirt with the sheer tag. Should be fixed in 1.1.2.

 

Slot system conceptually doesnt belong in this mod. This mod just provides the keywords and a helper function for other mods to know how skimpy the player is based on those keywords. It's up to other mods to decide how to interpret the absence of keywords. Is it because the player is truly naked? Or player is wearing some clothes that just didnt get keywords added for?

 

The best solution may be adding a toggle in my other mod Sexual Harassment to switch on/off which system to use. I may do that, no guarantee. But not here.

[deathmorph]

1 hour ago, twistedtrebla said:

The best solution may be adding a toggle in my other mod Sexual Harassment to switch on/off which system to use. I may do that, no guarantee. But not here.

 

Sorry, of course. I'm aware of that. Unfortunately, I hadn't thought about it in the zeal of my posting.

I would be happy about a button to change to the old system in SH.

 

@vaultbait Of course I can see the benefit. However, I have a hard time with completely new things. I'm "just" an end user, need a bit more time than maybe some others.

Edited April 14, 2023 by deathmorph

[pr0nsax]

On 4/14/2023 at 5:32 AM, twistedtrebla said:

I think there was a math error when calculating skimpy rating for pants/skirt with the sheer tag. Should be fixed in 1.1.2.

 

Slot system conceptually doesnt belong in this mod. This mod just provides the keywords and a helper function for other mods to know how skimpy the player is based on those keywords. It's up to other mods to decide how to interpret the absence of keywords. Is it because the player is truly naked? Or player is wearing some clothes that just didnt get keywords added for?

 

The best solution may be adding a toggle in my other mod Sexual Harassment to switch on/off which system to use. I may do that, no guarantee. But not here.

I'm thinking a toggle key in the debug menu in SAKR to turn on/off the override would be the best solution. That way you don't have to rely on other mods setting it up correctly and if people run a lot of outfit mods but does not have set up keywords for everything, they can just toggle the override on so it's like 0 rating when an item without a keyword is equipped.

[vaultbait]

9 hours ago, pr0nsax said:

they can just toggle the override on so it's like 0 rating when an item without a keyword is equipped.

 

 

When no items with keywords are equipped but one or more items are equipped, maybe? This gets rather complicated though. If you wore a collar and a full outfit neither of which had keywords, you're considered fully covered when the toggle is engaged, but then you take off the outfit leaving the collar equipped... do you need to turn off the toggle so that it no longer thinks you're covered (because you still have the collar equipped)?

[deathmorph]

On 4/14/2023 at 4:47 AM, vaultbait said:

In that case all you have to do is copy the vanilla ARMO records as overrides into a new plugin, then make SKSE a master for that new plugin, and start adding keywords to the overridden records.

 

Sorry for the banal question, but how do you do that? Do I select the entries I want in Armor and go to Apply Script? I just read something similar, but it concerned a different mod and that's why I'd rather ask again.

[pr0nsax]

14 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

 

When no items with keywords are equipped but one or more items are equipped, maybe? This gets rather complicated though. If you wore a collar and a full outfit neither of which had keywords, you're considered fully covered when the toggle is engaged, but then you take off the outfit leaving the collar equipped... do you need to turn off the toggle so that it no longer thinks you're covered (because you still have the collar equipped)?

Have you actually looked in the debug menu in SAKR?

I don't understand your example.

 

Currently if you equip items without keywords (like all base game equipment) it will set your exposure to 100 across the board, i.e. it thinks you're naked.

In the debug menu there's an override where you can set values for upper and lower skimpy rating, as well as turning the override on/off.

What I'm asking for is being able to bind the on/off to a keyboard key so I can toggle it without having to go into the menu.

 

[vaultbait]

16 hours ago, deathmorph said:

 

Sorry for the banal question, but how do you do that? Do I select the entries I want in Armor and go to Apply Script? I just read something similar, but it concerned a different mod and that's why I'd rather ask again.

 

In FO4Edit you select the ARMO records on the left side (shift-click or control-clict to multi-select them if there are a lot), then right-click one of the selected records and in the context menu select copy as override into... A new modal will come up allowing you to select the plugin you want to copy it into and there you can choose to copy into a new plugin with whatever header flags you like (so for example pick an ESP with the ESL flag set), after which it will prompt you for the new filename you want to give it (without the extension).

 

Once that's done, you should see an additional plugin on the left which you can expand. Right-click it and add masters, then choose the plugin for SAKR. Once you've done that, expand the armor list in your new plugin and add the relevant SAKR keywords to each ARMO record in that new plugin. When you're done, exit and save but make sure only to save the new plugin you created when prompted (in case you made stray edits to some other plugin while you were doing these steps). Enable your new plugin in your mod manager's plugins list, ideally create a new installable mod from it for ease of tracking in your mod manager. When you sort your plugins, the new plugin should load after SAKR since that's a master for it.

 

Hopefully these instructions are clear, but if you do try out making INI files for RobCo Patcher you'll find it's far less complicated.

[vaultbait]

2 hours ago, pr0nsax said:

Have you actually looked in the debug menu in SAKR?

I don't understand your example.

 

Yes, I use this mod and have used the debug overrides in MCM for testing integration with other mods I'm working on, so I understand how it works.

 

2 hours ago, pr0nsax said:

Currently if you equip items without keywords (like all base game equipment) it will set your exposure to 100 across the board, i.e. it thinks you're naked.

In the debug menu there's an override where you can set values for upper and lower skimpy rating, as well as turning the override on/off.

What I'm asking for is being able to bind the on/off to a keyboard key so I can toggle it without having to go into the menu.

 

 

That wasn't clear, sorry. It sounded like you wanted a new toggle in MCM which would make the coverage default to 100 only when outfits with no SAKR keywords were worn, and I was trying to point out that auto-detecting a lack of SAKR keywords to indicate full coverage would be of very limited use (unless maybe also limited to specific biped slots, so maybe a toggle to detect an outfit in slot 33 with no SAKR tags as covering might make sense in some limited cases).

 

It was your "when an item is equipped" stupulation which confused me, since the current override has nothing to do with equipping and unequipping items, it's either set or it isn't.

[deathmorph]

15 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

Hopefully these instructions are clear, but if you do try out making INI files for RobCo Patcher you'll find it's far less complicated.

 

Yes, I'm trying. I followed your advice and now create the required ini with the Rubberduck generator.
However, I thought that a new esp for vanilla clothing had to be created here as well. Is that not the case?

[vaultbait]

6 minutes ago, deathmorph said:

 

Yes, I'm trying. I followed your advice and now create the required ini with the Rubberduck generator.
However, I thought that a new esp for vanilla clothing had to be created here as well. Is that not the case?

 

It is not the case, no. RobCo Patcher files need no plugins at all. Instead, it's an F4SE library which edits values in memory at the time the game loads, after all existing game plugins have already loaded. You don't need to create or ediit anything at all in FO4Edit/FO4CK when patching with RobCo Patcher INI files.

[deathmorph]

2 hours ago, vaultbait said:

It is not the case, no. RobCo Patcher files need no plugins at all. Instead, it's an F4SE library which edits values in memory at the time the game loads, after all existing game plugins have already loaded. You don't need to create or ediit anything at all in FO4Edit/FO4CK when patching with RobCo Patcher INI files.

 

Understood. Thanks for the info.

[Spaceguest991]

So one idea I thought of is maybe keywords for head as well? Like if you're lower face is viable like you're wearing a mask or if you're whole head is cover or maybe you're wearing glasses?

 

Just I was thinking of your Bound in Public mod and I was thinking maybe you can use keywords for that to tell if the players face is visible? or with Sexual Harassment. Like maybe if you got something to cover your whole face it builds sex reputation slower or if you're whole face is covered with a concealing outfit sex reputation events are less likely to trigger?

 

Just some random thoughts I had not sure if they're worth the extra keywords but I'll leave it here in case. if you're interested.

 

Edit: Also I suggest for Pants could perhaps use a optional tag for Low-rise pants.

I recall seeing at least one low rise pants in a vtaw pack, might of been 1?

Edit: Might be also nice to have a debug feature that lets you see what Skimpy armor keywords are on a item so when people make more patchs and such that you can narrow down what item has what keywords if they want to change something.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Spaceguest991

[Krazyone]

1 hour ago, Spaceguest991 said:

So one idea I thought of is maybe keywords for head as well? Like if you're lower face is viable like you're wearing a mask or if you're whole head is cover or maybe you're wearing glasses?

 

Just I was thinking of your Bound in Public mod and I was thinking maybe you can use keywords for that to tell if the players face is visible? or with Sexual Harassment. Like maybe if you got something to cover your whole face it builds sex reputation slower or if you're whole face is covered with a concealing outfit sex reputation events are less likely to trigger?

 

Just some random thoughts I had not sure if they're worth the extra keywords but I'll leave it here in case. if you're interested.

 

Edit: Also I suggest for Pants could perhaps use a optional tag for Low-rise pants.

I recall seeing at least one low rise pants in a vtaw pack, might of been 1?

 

Be nice for beautiful characters, hiding those kissable lips away. For mods that Tag your character as Beautiful, or Ugly. Face exposed = more approaches for people asking you out on Dates.

 

- Sack Cloth... on your head, Dating Approaches would be Chance 0.

- Heavy Helmets... Ear Padding, would reduce Hypnosis Click for Sex.

[sen4mi]

How should we keyword equipment which prevents skin from being covered?

 

For example, there's some high heels which occupy all of the top/bottom/armor slots.

[vaultbait]

6 hours ago, sen4mi said:

How should we keyword equipment which prevents skin from being covered?

 

For example, there's some high heels which occupy all of the top/bottom/armor slots.

 

I would just not add any coverage keywords to that at all, since it doesn't cover anything. The fact that it takes up slots and so conflicts with other clothing items which would cover the body is irrelevant. It's about what that item covers, which is basically nothing, not about what slots are used.