Defeat or Submit

[ttpt]

Yeah, I don't think adding the grapple to NPCs s a good idea, as neat as the animation is. Defeat already covers those events well enough if that's what you want. Defeat also allows your companions to rape automatically, and if you knockdown the enemy yourself the you can rape them, but Submit allows you after a grapple to offer the NPC to your companions, which is not something Defeat can do. Both mods really complement each other in surprising ways

 

 

 

Can one use either of these mods as a "Get out of jail free card" concerning humanoid combat? I wanted to play a weaker char based on magic and speechcraft that doesn't use much/any weapons so I was wondering if that can be used at least to circumvent bandits and similar ilk?

 

There's a mod on here called LoversHook that adds spell effects before and after sex. Run that, and set the Aggressor to have a calm effect when sex ends. Whether this calms everybody in that area, I don't know.

 

It's actually SexLabUtil that has the calm spells and all that jazz, loverhook does an entirely different thing and it's honestly not that essential.

[crusher]

Submit, Defeat and No Death Mod are three that add huge replay to near death experience.

 

1) If you are out-numbered, low on health and out of options: Submit. You now have a quest to get your gear back. 

 

2) If you think you can win and refuse to Submit, but fail, Defeat kicks in giving you one more option to get out alive, but you have to act quick as you'll be attacked after Defeat. Submit is still an option....

 

3) If you fail to both Submit or evade Defeat, you are knocked-out cold, dumped in the woods without items or gold. You now have a quest to gain 100g to get information on the bandits that stole all your gear. No Death Mod may be abandoned, but author had some really cool features planned. Shame there is no activity currently, a really great alternative to save and reload at death. 

 

So, no cheap death and reload from a save, you now have failure with real consequence. If No Death Mod kicks in you could have an evenings worth of questing to get gold for info, and find the bandits that took your stuff.

 

Would be nice to have all three working together without any crossover conflict. Perhaps a onetime hard cap on pc health damage for Defeat/Sumbit auto-trigger. So, if Defeat were set at 20% player health, the damage taken at that triggering hit would stop at, not drop/fall below, 20% for pc, giving a 20% health window, guaranteed, for slim chance of escape. If the pc is then hit again and Submit trigger threshold is reached at say 10% (damage not to fall below pc's 10% threshold on first trigger assuming auto-trigger option is enabled) pc has a chance to gain back gear before No Death Mod kicks in which might place you on other side of map without equipment or gold.  So, if both mods had a one-time Damage Cap, on trigger, they could be set at different thresholds, and never cross those two thresholds at the same time when taking damage that would otherwise trigger both at same time. 

 

No Death Mod, you'd get tied-up and tossed into the wilderness, needing to find your way back to the bandit lair that has all your stuff. If using Dangerously Nude, you now have more trouble as you'll be a rape target.

[lvlistress]

I have a problem with both these mods, in that they a HEAVILY slanted to the player as victim (ie getting "defeated" or "submitting").  The so-called "Ambush" in Submit, where you can supposedly attack while sneaking, is totally non-functional ... by design.  Please explain to me how one degrades the health of a sleeping NPC below 90%, without waking them?  EVERY NPC you encounter will be at 100% health, so both mods give 0% chance of success of a sneak attack (unless you cheat with the console, ie "modav health -100").  On the the other hand, the player can get raped by EVERY NPC they encounter, regardless of health, by simply pressing a hotkey.

 

One of the authors claims to want to give the player all the control?  I think not.  As I refuse to be raped, I have yet to have a non-consensual sex scene with either mod.  The NPC either ends up running away, or I kill them before they "submit" or are "defeated".  I suggest you remove the health restriction completely for the player as rapist - which makes it balanced - just a 100% success rape hot key - just like the 100% success submit hot key.  These mods are just toooooo PC for me.  Going back to SexAddict, where I can rape when I want to. 

 

I'd much rather use the Sexlab Framework, but all the mods so far makes me play the game as a victim if I want sex.  SexLab Zzz shows some promise, but its still a buggy beta, and will likely end up in the same place as Defeat and Submit - the player can easily get raped every five minutes, but its nigh impossible for the player to rape ANYONE, even a level 1, sleeping, novice necromancer with no armor or weapons, all alone deep in a cave somewhere.

 

 

[ttpt]

You can disable the submitting part of submit and the player rape part of defeat entirely. Plus you can set the minimum health on NPCs for rape to 100% on defeat's MCM menu and using defeat's hotkey (default G) on a sleeping NPC will give you an options menu where you can choose to either rob, rape, tie up among other things.

 

So yeah, either mod can give you exactly what you want, without making any unneeded modifications to submit or defeat.

[lvlistress]

You can disable the submitting part of submit and the player rape part of defeat entirely. Plus you can set the minimum health on NPCs for rape to 100% on defeat's MCM menu and using defeat's hotkey (default G) on a sleeping NPC will give you an options menu where you can choose to either rob, rape, tie up among other things.

 

So yeah, either mod can give you exactly what you want, without making any unneeded modifications to submit or defeat.

 

 

Incorrect.  The documentation states a "hard cap" at 90% health, regardless of what you set in the MCM.  And even if it IS 100%, it clearly must be BELOW the value set in the MCM, not equal to, so same problem.

Also that still only gives you max chance of success hard capped at 90% that drops 10% with every failure.

 

There is no 100% possibilty of the player raping an NPC, while there IS a 100% success EVERY TIME the player is the victim by choice.  As I said, sneak attacks fail 100% of the time unless you cheat with the console.

 

[ttpt]

I don't know if Defeat has a hard cap, but I set it to 100% and tried it out on a sleeping NPC at level 81 and had no problems triggering it, so I don't know what to tell you.

 

Besides, making it a 100% would make things entirely too boring, you might as well just use matchmaker if you want that.

[lvlistress]

I don't know if Defeat has a hard cap, but I set it to 100% and tried it out on a sleeping NPC at level 81 and had no problems triggering it, so I don't know what to tell you.

 

Besides, making it a 100% would make things entirely too boring, you might as well just use matchmaker if you want that.

 

I find it more than boring that I can be so easily raped, robbed and enslaved by nearly every sex mod on this site, while the reverse is severely limited if not impossible.

[ttpt]

Except you don't have to use those mods if you don't want to  and like for serious you can absolutely use matchmaker to just have your way with anything anywhere at any time, and that was the first sexlab mod ever.

[lvlistress]

Except you don't have to use those mods if you don't want to  and like for serious you can absolutely use matchmaker to just have your way with anything anywhere at any time, and that was the first sexlab mod ever.

 

Matchmaker is just consensual sex without the dialogue.  It doesn't pretend to be a rape mod, and it isn't.

Defeat and Submit claim to be combat/rape mods, except only the player gets raped.

[Zed123]

In Submit you can sneak grapple full health NPCs, if you do that when they are sleeping you get bonus to skill check, if you fail and they go aggro, then you'll just have to beat them a bit and do combat grapple/shout until they submit. Only against targets in combat you need health less than 90%.

 

If that's too hard, you can get yourself +25% bonus to aggressive skill checks in MCM menu. Tho in my experience getting NPCs to submit isn't hard at all with default settings.

 

 

Submit in Sexlab Submit doesn't originally mean player submitting, that feature was added to the mod only after it was requested several times. Mod was originally aimed against bandits factions, now it has many other (optional) features too. It works rather well against city NPCs as well, as long as you are bit discreet where you'll try to get them submit (on the street on front of the guard probably isn't smartest place).

 

You'll get -2 relations with NPCs you force, which is only fair roleplay wise, and works nicely what I have experienced as you'll get cold greeting. If you think NPC is important, you might want instead try courting them. You can always improve relations with them later by trying to seduce or bribe them, tho this is harder skill check than forcing them.

 

Trust me, it's much better with skill checks, gives it depth and keeps it interesting. Running with bit bounty over your head isn't bad either if you fail in attempt, fits for a douche character you are playing, it's cheap to pay it off too since it's only assault bounty (40g) if you so wish as long as you don't stain your hands with blood, and if you do, leave no witnesses.

 

Try the mod, it's probably what you are looking for.

[Someone92]

I have a problem with both these mods, in that they a HEAVILY slanted to the player as victim (ie getting "defeated" or "submitting").

My problem with both mods is the exact reverse; onless you set the health threshold very high (40-60%+) you'll never see a NPC having their way with the PC during regualar gameplay.

[Regallag the Perv]

 

My problem with both mods is the exact reverse; onless you set the health threshold very high (40-60%+) you'll never see a NPC having their way with the PC during regualar gameplay.

 

 

Really?  I find my PC getting raped and killed fairly often.  If your PC never goes below 40% health you may need to turn up the difficulty.  Unless you instantly go from 40% to dead, then you should turn down the difficulty.

[Tensu_Makadi]

 

You can disable the submitting part of submit and the player rape part of defeat entirely. Plus you can set the minimum health on NPCs for rape to 100% on defeat's MCM menu and using defeat's hotkey (default G) on a sleeping NPC will give you an options menu where you can choose to either rob, rape, tie up among other things.

 

So yeah, either mod can give you exactly what you want, without making any unneeded modifications to submit or defeat.

 

 

Incorrect.  The documentation states a "hard cap" at 90% health, regardless of what you set in the MCM.  And even if it IS 100%, it clearly must be BELOW the value set in the MCM, not equal to, so same problem.

Also that still only gives you max chance of success hard capped at 90% that drops 10% with every failure.

 

There is no 100% possibilty of the player raping an NPC, while there IS a 100% success EVERY TIME the player is the victim by choice.  As I said, sneak attacks fail 100% of the time unless you cheat with the console.

 

 

Um if I understood correctly that isn't a 90% health Hard cap (at least not when talking about a sleeping enemy) but a 90% success chance and either way I assure you can at least try to rape them and succeed with submit when they are at full health and If you set the defeat up right I think there is a 100% success chance when they are at full health but where is the fun in that. I mean if they can stand toe to toe with you in a fair fight or even out right tear you limb from limb they should have a fair chance to resist.

 

Keep in Mind most town NPC stand a fair chance against you early on stat wise unless you gear yourself solely down one combat path (read as power level a single stat such as one handed marksmen destruction and I think two handed). Now if you found a level 1 bandit and failed well as in real life they had a chance to resist.

 

Also this geared to the player being raped since they added in the option to resist in sexlab defeat I haven't been raped yet with the exception of some slaves I had in a previous save raping me in my sleep. AS for submit well I don't tend to submit and I'm not sure if submit forces player rapes at set values as all attempts at my character have been through defeat and I was able to resist them.

[Thasic]

 lvlistress, I have no idea what you're talking about. Obviously you have never actually used the Submit mod. I do use it and it does not work in anyway like you assume.

~First, the 90% health is LESS THAN 90% health as in if the NPC has 100 health points and gets knocked down to 90 health points or less, than they are a possible target for the player.

~The only hard caps are a maximum chance of success of 90% for player or NPC but that is not usually the case. The chance for the player works on a sliding scale that the player has some control over including settings in MCM.

~ There is an MCM setting that prevents the player from ever being a victim, and it works just fine. I don't have any desire to be a meat puppet for a bunch of Foresworn so I set that fucntion off and I have never been raped in the many, many hours of play even though I have been killed by bandits, warlocks, forsworn and numerous other people and creatures.

 

You should really use a mod before you start complaining about how it doesn't work properly.

[Jarl Cocksmith]

I haven't checked for myself as yet, but can anyone confirm that in "Defeat" there IS in fact a way to make the player able to rape NPCs at full health with a 100% success chance?

 

Also, given that such a feature is lacking in "Submit",  does anyone happen to know what code to alter (and how to alter it) so as to add that feature to the Submit mod?

[Thasic]

No, there is no 100% chance of success in either Defeat or Submit. If you're looking for 100% there are other mods that are basically spells that guarantee a sexual encounter every time with any partner. That is not what these mods do.

[Someone92]

The Defeat description says:

"Success chance is based on the health of your target, threshold adjustable in MCM. -30 stamina per failed attempt.
From behind or fleeing after a rape, the target will not resist."

 

So, unless I've understood that incorrectly or it's bugged in-game there are situations were a rape is guaranteed.

[Goubo]

Yes, there is no resist when in the back but I plan to do something about this because this is OP. As mentionned in the Future plan section of Defeat.

That is actually on top of my to-do list. It will not be hard to do but I need to find a good balance.

But there will not be any resist on a sleeping/Feared NPC.

 

Anyway, stop comparing those two mods, just try those mod and play with the mod you like or even both, and if you have questions/suggestions about a particular mod, just ask in their respective threads.

[00ptic]

There is really nothing stopping you from using both (which I'm pretty sure most people are doing).

[Thasic]

I used defeat for a recent playthrough and on my present playthrough I am using submit. I like both of them, they are both very well made and designed. They are similiar but have a few differences. Some people do use both at once and I think that is not only possible but easy to do. I prefer one at a time, but that's me.

[Jarl Cocksmith]

Yes, there is no resist when in the back but I plan to do something about this because this is OP. As mentionned in the Future plan section of Defeat.

That is actually on top of my to-do list. It will not be hard to do but I need to find a good balance.

 

Ah, so there is a situation which presents a 100% chance even on NPCs with 100% hp, cool.

 

If you do something to change that, I personally encourage you to make the change an optional one that can be toggled on or off.

 

There's literally nothing in all of conception or creation that I could possibly be less concerned about in a rape mod than "OP" or "balanced".

[Goubo]

Of course, everything I change will be optionnal and configurable, MCM makes that easy.

[Jarl Cocksmith]

*Thumbs up*

Baller.

[Molevalence]

Submit works fine for me but I am having this continued issue with Defeat. Even with fresh made games/clean saves. You go to the mod tab and then when you select Defeat and choose one of the tabs nothing appears and then the mod menu locks up forcing you to leave the mod menu screen all together. Because of this I cannot adjust my settings or even use the mod at all leaving me to believe its broken.

[Nelyeth]

Submit works fine for me but I am having this continued issue with Defeat. Even with fresh made games/clean saves. You go to the mod tab and then when you select Defeat and choose one of the tabs nothing appears and then the mod menu locks up forcing you to leave the mod menu screen all together. Because of this I cannot adjust my settings or even use the mod at all leaving me to believe its broken.

 

Disable Defeat, open Skyrim, save, quit Skyrim, enable Defeat, load your game. It should be fixed now (this issue will happen everytime you start a new game though, so you may have to do it again). Enjoy raping your foes, oh mighty Dovahkiin