Defeat or Submit

[Redflyingmonkey]

 

 

It's a new option in Submit, called Death Proof. If this is on (or any other mod that messes with death) then it blocks Defeat. If you leave Auto Surrender off, it doesn't matter. If you turn it on, you need to turn Death Proof off.

You just have to put the exhaustion threshold on Defeat instead of the health one ! That means you get the defeat rape happening if you get hit from behind under a certain exhaustion threshold, then if you get owned you get raped with the submit system, everything falling into place. There's just the problem of NOT getting hit from behind with the exhaustion under the threshold WHILE behing under the health threshold from Submit. For real, don't do it. 

 

 

Well with the deathproof in submit now you can just set your health to 0% in submit for it to kick in. Then if you use exhaustion for Defeat they should never over lap. I mean I suppose it is theoretically possible that you use up all your health and the last hit from behind is the one that drops you to 0% health and triggers defeat. But it seems like it would be a very rare chance to happen.

 

I had it happen in fact, it's pretty easy if you fight bandits and you didn't notice the bandit chief in his fucking tower with the monster crossbow from skyre sniping you from behind when your exhaustion bar is down after a power attack. In short : you're owning bandits, the chief almost one shots you, the bandits proc the Submit, while the arrow in the back procs the Defeat.

 ->CTD or character standing still, with the bandits either going full retard or just saying "I'll let you off this once" and walking out of the place like goddam pimps.  

[Skyrimfloo]

I was planning on using both together, but honestly, the only feature that I'd miss from Defeat is animal gangbang, which is not important to me, also I dropped Romance since this one has a better way to deal with dialogue sex. I'm still considering on trying both together once my mods are all tested and I am happy with them, though, because I think that I prefer how Defeat handles character rape.

 

If I were to use both mods together, I'd have Defeat for player and companions as victims only, deactivating everything else except animals. I don't really like the resist hotkeys in Defeat, I'm not sure if these can be deactivated, but if it's possible I'd do. Submit would be used for dialogue sex, player as agressor and manual submit.

 

But for now, I'm pretty happy with Submit by itself. I hope that dkatryl decided to fix the animal gangbang sometime when there aren't other issues at hand.

[gooser]

Another oddity, and it's more of an observation of Submit than the combination of the two, is when you, for instance, fast travel to a town that gets attacked by a dragon. I use Deadly Dragons and if I am not careful the breath attack can easily kill me. With Submit's death proof enabled I'm essentially unkillable because the dragon is engaged with other opponents that are friendly to me (guards, npcs) so the submit never gets processed - I just go to zero hp and keep fighting.

[nutluck]

Ah well as I said I can see it happening but at this point I don't see a reason to use Defeat and submit for player as victim as they both cover the same ground their fairly well now that submit adds in more than 2 NPC's. For now I am using submit for PC as victim and seduction function, while I use defeat for PC as aggressor and NPC/NPC. Do that and they work well together or have for me anyways. Get the best of both mods with no overlap.

[Redflyingmonkey]

Ah well as I said I can see it happening but at this point I don't see a reason to use Defeat and submit for player as victim as they both cover the same ground their fairly well now that submit adds in more than 2 NPC's. For now I am using submit for PC as victim and seduction function, while I use defeat for PC as aggressor and NPC/NPC. Do that and they work well together or have for me anyways. Get the best of both mods with no overlap.

But I really like the submit hotkey from Defeat aha, this is the only reason I keep the player as victim option, I can just deliberately submit to an enemy without even fighting if I want some sex slave action to happen, since SD+ is still kinda buggy and takes way too long to escape from, and since there isn't any real ""deliberate" (as if, self imposed) sex slave situation mod out there

[nutluck]

 

Ah well as I said I can see it happening but at this point I don't see a reason to use Defeat and submit for player as victim as they both cover the same ground their fairly well now that submit adds in more than 2 NPC's. For now I am using submit for PC as victim and seduction function, while I use defeat for PC as aggressor and NPC/NPC. Do that and they work well together or have for me anyways. Get the best of both mods with no overlap.

But I really like the submit hotkey from Defeat aha, this is the only reason I keep the player as victim option, I can just deliberately submit to an enemy without even fighting if I want some sex slave action to happen, since SD+ is still kinda buggy and takes way too long to escape from, and since there isn't any real ""deliberate" (as if, self imposed) sex slave situation mod out there

 

 

You can with submit too, as soon as they agro you even if they have not hit you or you hit them. If you hit the manual surrender key in submit you give up too.

 

I do agree with you about the now slave mod. Right now they all seem to either be short term like Submit with the tie up feature or BDSM mods more than slavery.

[Skyrimfloo]

I think you mean the submit hotkey for Submit, unless Defeat had such a function and I never found it.

 

Previously I used to play with Defeat and Romance, but the deal breaker was Submit working almost like both flawlessly. Romance is rather dull, it has pretty much one simgle option to talk with people, but Submit has many options involving different skills, so I really loved it and decided to switch those two for Submit. As I said, I would rather go with Defeat puely for automatic player as victim, because it seems more complete to me, and use Submit for everything else, because it seems easier to use and has more control.

 

I see Submit for example a good tool to avoid slavery in SD+, when it's working properly: if you know they're going to gank you, you can give up before getting into the danger HP range. Then you get raped but at least not enslaved.

[Redflyingmonkey]

 

You can with submit too, as soon as they agro you even if they have not hit you or you hit them. If you hit the manual surrender key in submit you give up too.

 

I do agree with you about the now slave mod. Right now they all seem to either be short term like Submit with the tie up feature or BDSM mods more than slavery.

 

Oh yea, I meant the submit hotkey ! Wait, does that mean I have absolutelyh no need to activate Defeat ? :OOOOO 

Dumb me. 

 

I think you mean the submit hotkey for Submit, unless Defeat had such a function and I never found it.

 

Previously I used to play with Defeat and Romance, but the deal breaker was Submit working almost like both flawlessly. Romance is rather dull, it has pretty much one simgle option to talk with people, but Submit has many options involving different skills, so I really loved it and decided to switch those two for Submit. As I said, I would rather go with Defeat puely for automatic player as victim, because it seems more complete to me, and use Submit for everything else, because it seems easier to use and has more control.

 

I see Submit for example a good tool to avoid slavery in SD+, when it's working properly: if you know they're going to gank you, you can give up before getting into the danger HP range. Then you get raped but at least not enslaved.

Yeah, I may have confused some stuff... 

And I completely agree for Submit being an alternative to SD+, I'm actually using it that way waiting for SD+ to work. It adds to the tension of the fight to know that if SD+ procs and I get enslaved, I'm in for an hour long of unresponsive owner/continual rape/CTDs/skooma feeding reducing your movement speed to 3%/dying from being whipped (yeah it happened)...

 

But with the Submit + Devious Devices belt, it's almost as bad as getting enslaved by SD+. I mean, in SD at least they don't put a goddam armbinder and chastity gear on you, so you have some kind of way to retrieve your gear by killing your master once you're freed... With Submit, if you surrender, it's over for your stuff, I just spent like 10 IG hours getting the Lustmord armor, and some imperial soldier just stole all of it from me, put me in an armbinder thus forcing me to run all the way to Rorikstead to get help.

 

That moment when you take off your infernal armbinder and realize the imperial soldier with all your gear was actually on a patrol and that there's 200+ NPCs just like him walking Skyrim, without counting those added by Civil War Overhaul.

[Skyrimfloo]

Yeah, I may have confused some stuff... 

And I completely agree for Submit being an alternative to SD+, I'm actually using it that way waiting for SD+ to work. It adds to the tension of the fight to know that if SD+ procs and I get enslaved, I'm in for an hour long of unresponsive owner/continual rape/CTDs/skooma feeding reducing your movement speed to 3%/dying from being whipped (yeah it happened)...

 

But with the Submit + Devious Devices belt, it's almost as bad as getting enslaved by SD+. I mean, in SD at least they don't put a goddam armbinder and chastity gear on you, so you have some kind of way to retrieve your gear by killing your master once you're freed... With Submit, if you surrender, it's over for your stuff, I just spent like 10 IG hours getting the Lustmord armor, and some imperial soldier just stole all of it from me, put me in an armbinder thus forcing me to run all the way to Rorikstead to get help.

 

That moment when you take off your infernal armbinder and realize the imperial soldier with all your gear was actually on a patrol and that there's 200+ NPCs just like him walking Skyrim, without counting those added by Civil War Overhaul.

 

Well, then don't use Submit + Devious devices, lol. I don't. Honestly, I don't see any use for that. For me Submit is an "ok dude, stop hitting me and I'll let you have this ass nice and easy" mod. To be bound and restrained we have SD+.

 

It doesn't make sense to me that some random bandit wandering the roads would be carrying a freaking armbinder and a chastity belt around like it was pocket change, use them and then leave you there for dead with HIS toys, don't you think?

[Redflyingmonkey]

Now that I think about it it's true that it's kind of weird ... But I kinda like it, it adds some spice to fights and actually inserts the Sexlab animations in some sort of immersive way, I mean the whole running from the bandit camp and asking for help thing, then going back to get your revenge and your gear (if it's not a freaking patrolling soldier) is really intense !
There was this one time I submitted to a really badass Briarheart, and everytime I'd go to Shor's Stone to get help from the miners to go back to the Redoubt to kill the dude, he'd make me explode with a fireball. So I had to go in an epic adventure to recruit some cool followers from Intersting NPCs, put them on my flying dwemer ship, forge some basic gear and go all the way to Solitude and back without fast travelling, stopping sometimes to light a fire and pick up some flowers to craft health potions. So I went to the dude's cave like, with 5 more levels, 1 khajiit thief, 3 nord barbarians, one talking zombie and 2 sex slaves, and destroyed the guy, picked up my gear, reanimated him to make him my slave then went on my way. 
In short, a single regular bandit encounter can turn into an epic quest ! 

[Skyrimfloo]

 

Now that I think about it it's true that it's kind of weird ... But I kinda like it, it adds some spice to fights and actually inserts the Sexlab animations in some sort of immersive way, I mean the whole running from the bandit camp and asking for help thing, then going back to get your revenge and your gear (if it's not a freaking patrolling soldier) is really intense !

There was this one time I submitted to a really badass Briarheart, and everytime I'd go to Shor's Stone to get help from the miners to go back to the Redoubt to kill the dude, he'd make me explode with a fireball. So I had to go in an epic adventure to recruit some cool followers from Intersting NPCs, put them on my flying dwemer ship, forge some basic gear and go all the way to Solitude and back without fast travelling, stopping sometimes to light a fire and pick up some flowers to craft health potions. So I went to the dude's cave like, with 5 more levels, 1 khajiit thief, 3 nord barbarians, one talking zombie and 2 sex slaves, and destroyed the guy, picked up my gear, reanimated him to make him my slave then went on my way. 

 

In short, a single regular bandit encounter can turn into an epic quest ! 

 

Yeah, but I still don't see the need to use Devious Devices with Submit in particular. You would have had that same experience with Sanguine's Debauchery, but other than just bind you with ropes or something I don't see why would a random bandit that rapes you in the middle of nowhere would just put an armbinder and a butt plut on you and leave you there.

 

I'm not arguing against your fun, of course. Just saying that in my case I would use Devious Devices with SD+ only, and leave Submit only for just getting tied at a sideroad at most.

 

[Redflyingmonkey]

 

 

Now that I think about it it's true that it's kind of weird ... But I kinda like it, it adds some spice to fights and actually inserts the Sexlab animations in some sort of immersive way, I mean the whole running from the bandit camp and asking for help thing, then going back to get your revenge and your gear (if it's not a freaking patrolling soldier) is really intense !

There was this one time I submitted to a really badass Briarheart, and everytime I'd go to Shor's Stone to get help from the miners to go back to the Redoubt to kill the dude, he'd make me explode with a fireball. So I had to go in an epic adventure to recruit some cool followers from Intersting NPCs, put them on my flying dwemer ship, forge some basic gear and go all the way to Solitude and back without fast travelling, stopping sometimes to light a fire and pick up some flowers to craft health potions. So I went to the dude's cave like, with 5 more levels, 1 khajiit thief, 3 nord barbarians, one talking zombie and 2 sex slaves, and destroyed the guy, picked up my gear, reanimated him to make him my slave then went on my way. 

 

In short, a single regular bandit encounter can turn into an epic quest ! 

 

Yeah, but I still don't see the need to use Devious Devices with Submit in particular. You would have had that same experience with Sanguine's Debauchery, but other than just bind you with ropes or something I don't see why would a random bandit that rapes you in the middle of nowhere would just put an armbinder and a butt plut on you and leave you there.

 

I'm not arguing against your fun, of course. Just saying that in my case I would use Devious Devices with SD+ only, and leave Submit only for just getting tied at a sideroad at most.

 

Oh gotcha, I thought you wanted to completely remove the armbinder and chastity gear from your game ah !

[nutluck]

 

 

You can with submit too, as soon as they agro you even if they have not hit you or you hit them. If you hit the manual surrender key in submit you give up too.

 

I do agree with you about the now slave mod. Right now they all seem to either be short term like Submit with the tie up feature or BDSM mods more than slavery.

 

Oh yea, I meant the submit hotkey ! Wait, does that mean I have absolutelyh no need to activate Defeat ? :OOOOO 

Dumb me. 

 

 

Well I wouldn't say no need, Defeat still has the NPC vs NPC feature that no other mod has, which I find immersive. Run across a group of imps and cloaks fighting and the winners take the spoils of war so to speak out of the losers. Just at this time I don't really see a reason to use both Defeat and Submit for the player as the victim. Since other than the tie up at the end of submit they more or less now do the same thing with the PC as the victim.

 

 

[gooser]

Can someone who is happily using both Defeat and Submit please post screenshots of your MCM settings? I was trying to use both but ended up removing Submit. I would like Defeat to be processed first during a knockdown and have Submti scenarios less frequently seen, but still there in case during a Defeat cycle a former aggressor goes agro, or if there are simply too many aggressors to satisfy in Defeat....

 

Thx

[gooser]

Oh, it would be great if I could use both without feeling invincible when fighting dragons, for instance scenarios where fast travelling to a town under a dragon attack. I use Deadly Dragons (in addition to Skyre, all on Master level difficulty), and it was seeming to be silly when the breath attack would take me down to 0 HP without Submit or Defeat processing (I just kept fighting)...

 

thanks again!

[nutluck]

Right now Submit will handle a train like Defeat always has now. Right now the only real difference between Defeat and Submit when the PC is the victim is at the end of Submit you get tied up. Other than that depending how you set it up they work the same for player as victim.

 

As for the death part, if you turn off the deathproof of submit and you can, then you will die like always. Then you just have to use the adjustable random submit change or manually surrender.

 

I personally use both cause they both do other things as well that i like. A list of the differences.

Submit - I use for player as victim now only.

Submit - I use for player seducing NPC's.

Submit - If you want to take a NPC prisoner.

Defeat - If you just want to rape a NPC and be done with them.

Defeat - Seeing NPC's fight NPC's and raping each other.

Defeat - For having your companion rape a NPC.

 

I just don't recommend using Defeat and Submit both for player as victim anymore, I just don't see much point with the changes to the last few versions of Submit.

[AlerictheNord]

 

 

Now that I think about it it's true that it's kind of weird ... But I kinda like it, it adds some spice to fights and actually inserts the Sexlab animations in some sort of immersive way, I mean the whole running from the bandit camp and asking for help thing, then going back to get your revenge and your gear (if it's not a freaking patrolling soldier) is really intense !

There was this one time I submitted to a really badass Briarheart, and everytime I'd go to Shor's Stone to get help from the miners to go back to the Redoubt to kill the dude, he'd make me explode with a fireball. So I had to go in an epic adventure to recruit some cool followers from Intersting NPCs, put them on my flying dwemer ship, forge some basic gear and go all the way to Solitude and back without fast travelling, stopping sometimes to light a fire and pick up some flowers to craft health potions. So I went to the dude's cave like, with 5 more levels, 1 khajiit thief, 3 nord barbarians, one talking zombie and 2 sex slaves, and destroyed the guy, picked up my gear, reanimated him to make him my slave then went on my way. 

 

In short, a single regular bandit encounter can turn into an epic quest ! 

 

Yeah, but I still don't see the need to use Devious Devices with Submit in particular. You would have had that same experience with Sanguine's Debauchery, but other than just bind you with ropes or something I don't see why would a random bandit that rapes you in the middle of nowhere would just put an armbinder and a butt plut on you and leave you there.

 

I'm not arguing against your fun, of course. Just saying that in my case I would use Devious Devices with SD+ only, and leave Submit only for just getting tied at a sideroad at most.

 

 

Not to be the one that start's talking about stability but...SD+, like the original SD, is far from stable, the mod author even states on the mod page that SD+ is not meant for 'serious' savegames.  Submit on the other hand works fairly well.

 

Also, Submit adds in a range of features aside from being captured in combat.

 

[Skyrimfloo]

I was talking more conceptually, of course. The ideal would be having SD+ working properly.

 

In any case, I know what options Submit adds, I've been using it for a while. I still don't see DD too fitting with it yet, but as I said, to each one his/her fun.

[whysis]

I like defeat because it has a nice reverse rape function built into it. As far as I can tell, submit only has that for the player/follower as the aggressor, thus you'll always see npc girls pegging everyone.

[nutluck]

I like defeat because it has a nice reverse rape function built into it. As far as I can tell, submit only has that for the player/follower as the aggressor, thus you'll always see npc girls pegging everyone.

 

I believe Submit just uses the sexlab set if you have female rapist set to do cowgirl or use a strapon.

[MasterYodaa]

Right now Submit will handle a train like Defeat always has now. Right now the only real difference between Defeat and Submit when the PC is the victim is at the end of Submit you get tied up. Other than that depending how you set it up they work the same for player as victim.

 

As for the death part, if you turn off the deathproof of submit and you can, then you will die like always. Then you just have to use the adjustable random submit change or manually surrender.

 

I personally use both cause they both do other things as well that i like. A list of the differences.

Submit - I use for player as victim now only.

Submit - I use for player seducing NPC's.

Submit - If you want to take a NPC prisoner.

Defeat - If you just want to rape a NPC and be done with them.

Defeat - Seeing NPC's fight NPC's and raping each other.

Defeat - For having your companion rape a NPC.

 

I just don't recommend using Defeat and Submit both for player as victim anymore, I just don't see much point with the changes to the last few versions of Submit.

 

Thank you for your list. I haven't tried it, but really love these mods.

 

I'm looking for some level of 'realism'. I believe in the Skyrim world, when you are defeated, a male guy/humanoid would frequently attempt to rape a beautiful female victim.

 

What I want:

1. When I'm defeated in combat, the other could make an attempt to rape me. Not always, but a possability.

2. It would be nice to see NPC's rape NPC's, but only occasionally, not always.

 

My questions.

1. Can I choose what creatures can rape me and who not? I believe it's not realistic that a spider rapes me, she only want to kill and eat.

2. Can I choose the probability that a NPC tries to kill me or rape me? I want that I'm killed most of the times, but sometimes they rape me?

3. Also for NPC versus NPC.

 

What mod is the best for my whishes?

[nutluck]

 

 

Thank you for your list. I haven't tried it, but really love these mods.

 

I'm looking for some level of 'realism'. I believe in the Skyrim world, when you are defeated, a male guy/humanoid would frequently attempt to rape a beautiful female victim.

 

What I want:

1. When I'm defeated in combat, the other could make an attempt to rape me. Not always, but a possability.

2. It would be nice to see NPC's rape NPC's, but only occasionally, not always.

 

My questions.

1. Can I choose what creatures can rape me and who not? I believe it's not realistic that a spider rapes me, she only want to kill and eat.

2. Can I choose the probability that a NPC tries to kill me or rape me? I want that I'm killed most of the times, but sometimes they rape me?

3. Also for NPC versus NPC.

 

What mod is the best for my whishes?

 

 

To answer some of your questions and this is from memory so take my answers with a pinch of salt so to speak.

 

With Submit you surrender to your foes and thats that. They have their way with you, in Defeat if you set it up right you can attempt to resist them doing it but this will often lead to you then being killed anyways.

 

1) I think both use sexlab so if you turn off the specific animations in sexlab they won't try. I am not positive about that though. In Submit there is 3 levels of creature support. 0 and no creatures will, 1 and some will ones like trolls, werewolves, vampires and I believe Dadric is it, at 2 then all creatures will but again I think it checks sexlab to be sure the creature is valid with animations.

 

2) Yes both Submit and Defeat have settings so you can set them to be random chances. You have a health threshold meaning it won't check for a chance till you are under that health level. So say you set it to 50% meaning when you drop under that there is a chance they can try and rape you. Then there is also a setting for chance the accomplish it, so if you set that to say 10% that means each hit after 50% health, has a 10% chance to cause them to rape you. Submit and I think Defeat too though gets higher chance, so if set at 10% chance at 50% it would be a 20% at 40% health etc.

 

So you would need to tweak the settings up and down till you hit the right chance that works for you, also as you gain more health you may need to go back and tweak the numbers again.

 

3) Yes NPC vs NPC in Defeat is set up the same way, if you set a low chance to happen and low health on NPC vs NPC like 30% health and a 10% chance you won't see it very often. You can tweak those numbers up and down with Defeat and get the frequency of it happening to your liking.

 

As for which is best for you? Hard to say I would recommend trying them both out and seeing. If you don't want to be tied up by bandits and have no interest in being able to seduce NPC's then likely Defeat will do everything you need and want. If you like either of those idea's then likely a combination of the two mods like I am using.

 

I am using both mods and turning some stuff off in each one, so they don't overlap and do the same thing. Best of both mods as I get all the features I want from each one and if set up well they work well together.

 

Hopefully that helps you decided.

 

[Skyrimfloo]

Thank you for your list. I haven't tried it, but really love these mods.

 

I'm looking for some level of 'realism'. I believe in the Skyrim world, when you are defeated, a male guy/humanoid would frequently attempt to rape a beautiful female victim.

 

What I want:

1. When I'm defeated in combat, the other could make an attempt to rape me. Not always, but a possability.

2. It would be nice to see NPC's rape NPC's, but only occasionally, not always.

 

1.- I believe Submit is the one to go if you don't wanna be raped everytime you're beaten. You gotta activate auto-surrender and lower the chance number below. I didn't try this yet, since I use Defeat for enemy rape, and Submit for manual surrender.

 

2.- For this you need Defeat. Submit doesn't have support for NPCs or companions autonomously raping enemies. All you can do here is to direct your followers through dialogue to rape enemies you defeated already.

 

 

My questions.

1. Can I choose what creatures can rape me and who not? I believe it's not realistic that a spider rapes me, she only want to kill and eat.

2. Can I choose the probability that a NPC tries to kill me or rape me? I want that I'm killed most of the times, but sometimes they rape me?

3. Also for NPC versus NPC.

 

1.- I think you can set this simply by deactivating the animations directly on SexLab. If you deactivate all animations for a creature, they won't rape you. i'm not sure if you'll still enter into bleedout, I didn't disable any creature.

 

2.- Honestly, I'm not sure. I suppose that if you use Submit's auto-surrender with a very low chance, enemies will kill you anytime you don't surrender. But the settings aren't too clear. If you put a very low health threshold for auto-surrender and disable the essential character option, it would happen that enemies will kill you if they hit you hard enough before you're able to submit.

 

3.- Defeat is the one to go.

[chajapa]

I seem to have some difficulty when using both Submit AND Defeat where my PC gets stuck after surrendering. I'm pretty sure it's because I have player as victim on both, but after a Submit surrender, she gets raped and then..... stuck. Player might be either down on the ground, not tied up, but down in an almost fetal position, or at least twice she was standing but I could not move and could not access any menues. She was standing there doing her "sexy idle". Tried doing a quick save (F5) and then reload, but she was still stuck. So I'm not sure what's going on there.

 

If I use just one or the other, everything seems fine. 

 

AND... because both of these are new to me, and I'm old, I get confused about which key does what in which one!

[nutluck]

You can use both as player as victim but you need to make sure you set them up just right so they don't both activate at the same time and cause problems. Me personally i recommend people just use one for player as victim but I have used both and it works just have to get the settings just right.