Proposition to De-Privatize the Rigs used in most Animations and CAS Parts

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

If you guys were not aware, there are rigs made available for animators and CAS Part creators to use to when making their animations and CAS Parts. However, these rigs are locked away inside Wicked Whims. This forces animators/CAS Part authors and users of those animations/CAS Parts to use Wicked Whims so that their animations and CAS Parts work correctly ingame.

 

I propose the rigs be made available as a separate and publicly available download, outside of Wicked Whims. I see no reason for Wicked Whims to have exclusive "rights" to such a crucial aspect of the animations and CAS Parts part of the community!

 

We should take after the Skyrim community and the XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended mod. Their rigs (or skeletons as they are called there) are made available as a separate download, I see zero reasons why the rigs in The Sims 4 should stay privatized and exclusively locked into Wicked Whims.

Just to be clear this applies mainly to Sim Rigs, whether they are for Human Sims, Werewolf Sims, Animal Sims, or any other types of Sims that may come about in the future.

 

There are benefits to this:
1. The rigs can be updated separately from Wicked Whims

2. People will not be forced to download and install Wicked Whims just to use the rigs.

3. Animators and mod authors will be able to make and utilize animations outside of the Wicked Whims framework in their own mods without having to make it a requirement.

4. Less fighting over who owns what when it comes to the vanilla rigs asset.

5. Multiple rigs can be made available on the same download page, so if people want a rig with certain bones (Such as the old Wicked Whims rig that had tongue and penis tip bones), they may freely download and access them, without having to download an old version of Wicked Whims just to get access to these.

6. It is publicly available and can be installed separately. People will not be required to include the rigs directly in their mods when they upload it.

7. There will be way less rig conflicts. People will not be required to worry about load order when it comes to rigs.

 

Like this post, if you agree. (Like my next post if you disagree)

Edited June 20, 2022 by ColonolNutty

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

Like this post, if you disagree and believe the rigs should not be uploaded/managed separately and should always be uploaded together with the mods that need those Rigs.

[BenjiThatFoxGuy]

yeah it would be nice to expand my mod and not require any of the animation frameworks but just use a rig on its own, the same rig that WW would plug into or any other mod if it needed to do so. requiring sfw players using my mods to install WW just to get these rigs is an absolute no-go.

also i just realised, ww containing rigs nets a nasty side effect of no 3rd party rigs being able to be used. what if i want to make a mod that will add custom bones to a sim for making anthros more lively, but a player using it has ww installed? well tough luck, WW will mess it up.

Edited June 21, 2022 by BenjiThatFoxGuy
edited to avoid doubleposting

[nishacakes]

This isn't to bash WW or cause old related issues between WW n DD but CN is right! Turbo needs to step up and reach out to CN about why some things work and others don't. 

I happen to use both platforms and lemme tell you Both are very good in their own unique way, But ever since the werewolves pack dropped its been a constant headache on what rigs work with what. I support both modders but we as the community just want some well deserved peace and enjoyment with the hard work you guys put into this . 

And of course I constantly do my best to support. Great work to the both of you!

[shinyboy69]

I approve this. Several bugs may had being fixed in record time after they decide to change the bones structure on this month update, which case almost all animation to be useless if they weren't edited and fix for the new version. specially the custom penis. I had to eliminated ones that a very great artist made for wickedwhims all thanks for the update. And thanks that things aren't public, it will take months to fix his rigs for the new ones

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

A better solution to requiring everyone to suddenly switch over is to simply have tags on CAS Part and Animation snippets that indicate which rig bones they require or even what version of rigs they require. This way they can be filtered out if someone doesn't have the rigs that work with them or filtered in if they do. This is a good solution for WW and DD to make use of when Rigs become a separate entity from both mods.

 

Wicked Whims already checks for the availability of certain bones on the rig (This is why its "Rig Conflict Error" notification knows when the rig is "wrong"), so it would not be a stretch to apply this to more dynamic CAS Part/Animation availability checking.

Edited June 22, 2022 by ColonolNutty

[Gambit]

The idea is quite good. Animators should be able to decide what rig to use for each of their animations :

A blowjob animation ? A rig who emphases the thong for one actor and the penis for the other.

Etc...

Apparently the number of bones per rig is limited, so specialized rigs by situations could be a plus.

[BenjiThatFoxGuy]

this might be out of the scope for this thread, but is dynamically reloading rigs in TS4 possible or will they need to be replaced manually in my mods folder depending what i want to do?

this is assuming we can get this idea of separated rigs through

Edited June 22, 2022 by BenjiThatFoxGuy
add a clarification

[powersexking]

Hey. You have a knack for complicating things. Don't complicate things that are already well equipped. I am against this opinion. Wicked Whims is constantly maintained and evolving. If you follow your opinion, people will be more confused.

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

42 minutes ago, powersexking said:

Hey. You have a knack for complicating things. Don't complicate things that are already well equipped. I am against this opinion. Wicked Whims is constantly maintained and evolving. If you follow your opinion, people will be more confused.

Please remember this is not for MY sake, this is for the community. Doing it this way is not very complicated in the Skyrim modding scene, so I do not see how it can be anymore complicated in The Sims 4 modding scene.

 

Wicked Whims is not the community and is not the only mod using or providing such rigs. Not every mod should be based off of or require Wicked Whims that just results in a monopoly (as it is now). Especially if those "addons" are only using the rigs.

Furthermore, this isn't about always using the latest and greatest rigs. This is about having a place where new AND old rigs can be provided for those who don't want to update to newer rigs. Those who wish to use old CAS Parts and Animations.

 

I recommend going through my bulleted list of benefits one more time before making your decision. If you still disagree, then be sure to put a Like on the second post to indicate your disagreement.

Edited June 22, 2022 by ColonolNutty

[powersexking]

56 minutes ago, ColonolNutty said:

이것은 나를 위한 것이 아니라 커뮤니티를 위한 것임을 기억하십시오. 이렇게 하면 스카이림 모딩 씬에서는 별로 복잡하지 않기 때문에 심즈 4 모딩 씬에서는 더 이상 어떻게 복잡해질 수 있는지 모르겠습니다.

 

Wicked Whims는 커뮤니티가 아니며 그러한 장비를 사용하거나 제공하는 유일한 모드도 아닙니다. 모든 모드가 (현재와 같이) 독점을 초래하는 Wicked Whims를 기반으로 하거나 필요로 해서는 안 됩니다. 특히 해당 "애드온"이 장비만 사용하는 경우.

더욱이 이것은 항상 최신의 최고의 장비를 사용하는 것이 아닙니다. 이것은 새로운 리그로 업데이트하고 싶지 않은 사람들을 위해 새 리그와 기존 리그를 제공할 수 있는 장소를 갖는 것에 관한 것입니다. 오래된 CAS 부품 및 애니메이션을 사용하려는 사람들.

 

결정을 내리기 전에 제 글머리 기호 목록을 한 번 더 검토하는 것이 좋습니다. 여전히 동의하지 않는 경우 두 번째 게시물에 좋아요를 눌러 동의하지 않음을 표시하십시오.

 

I don't want to worry about whether to update the new league or not. Can you take responsibility for whether your proposal can make a lot of progress? How will you take responsibility if there is only chaos without progress?

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

29 minutes ago, powersexking said:

 

I don't want to worry about whether to update the new league or not. Can you take responsibility for whether your proposal can make a lot of progress? How will you take responsibility if there is only chaos without progress?

"I don't want to worry about whether to update the new league or not."

Guess what, if the rigs were provided entirely separate from Wicked Whims, you would not be forced to "update the new league" (Update to the new rigs?), because you will be able to use the old rigs to your hearts content!

 

This thread is proof of me taking responsibility to improve this community. I'm not sure what else you're after.

You can disagree, this is fine. I am simply calling out that a change is warranted and proposing a way for the change to be implemented.

Edited June 22, 2022 by ColonolNutty

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

I am currently adding a property to both CAS Part and Animation (Specifically on the animation actors, since they aren't all humans!) snippets in my mods to allow CC authors and Animators to specify which version of Rig their CAS Parts and Animations require to be installed. If a version is not installed, DD will not display those Animations nor CAS Parts that require it. Doing this will allow those who wish to stay on the old rigs to continue doing so, and those who wish to update to the version 2 rigs can do so as well, without hassle!

I am adding two properties to both
"required_rig_version" and "required_rig_bones".

They specify the rig_version if they require all of the bones from a specific rig.
They specify the rig_bones if they require only a few bones from specific rigs, regardless of version.

 

For example, some of the shorter Noir penises could specify specific bones, since they don't require the removed Penis Tip bones. (This CAS Part will show regardless of rig version, because both of the current rigs have the bones it uses)

But for the longer Noir penises, they would specify Version 1, because Version 1 rig has the tip bones. (If version 1 is not available, these penises would not be  available either)

 

I highly recommend WW do the same.

Edited June 22, 2022 by ColonolNutty

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

2 hours ago, ColonolNutty said:

I am currently adding a property to both CAS Part and Animation (Specifically on the animation actors, since they aren't all humans!) snippets in my mods to allow CC authors and Animators to specify which version of Rig their CAS Parts and Animations require to be installed. If a version is not installed, DD will not display those Animations nor CAS Parts that require it. Doing this will allow those who wish to stay on the old rigs to continue doing so, and those who wish to update to the version 2 rigs can do so as well, without hassle!

I am adding two properties to both
"required_rig_version" and "required_rig_bones".

They specify the rig_version if they require all of the bones from a specific rig.
They specify the rig_bones if they require only a few bones from specific rigs, regardless of version.

 

For example, some of the shorter Noir penises could specify specific bones, since they don't require the removed Penis Tip bones. (This CAS Part will show regardless of rig version, because both of the current rigs have the bones it uses)

But for the longer Noir penises, they would specify Version 1, because Version 1 rig has the tip bones. (If version 1 is not available, these penises would not be  available either)

I highly recommend @TURBODRIVER implement the same idea in WW.

 

Besides putting these properties on CAS Parts, there is one suggestion I should specify with regards to putting them on Animations:
I suggest you put the properties on each Animation Actor rather than at the top level of the Animation snippet, since Werewolves have different rigs from Non Occult Sims, the actors on animations should have this capability too. (For example, People may have a Werewolf rig that has tail bones, but their Non Occult rig does not)

Edited June 22, 2022 by ColonolNutty

[Guest]

@ColonelNutty: You are nothing if not persistent. You ask for freedom to create, to unlock all technical possibilities for the benefit of the community!?.

Personally, I think you're just looking for a back door to implement all of your perverted bestial content...

The game can do without you!

[the0fromnexus]

I find the comparison interesting. Seems like Skyrim/FO4 modding is complicated because of technical reasons, while sims4 modding is complicated due to politics *sigh*.

That said i'm glad for the modularity + universal support that the xp32 skeleton provides and this suggestion here is a good call.

 

43 minutes ago, Winter Soul said:

perverted bestial content

Have you had a look at skyrim yet? Nobody gives an actual fuck.

Let people decide how they want to mod their games, not patreon/maxis/bugthesda/tumblr/twitter/you/nutty/me/etc.

 

43 minutes ago, Winter Soul said:

Personally, I think

And this is the point where everybody else stops caring. Please don't spread bullshit if you have nothing of relevance to say.

[MrGrey]

I don't understand the problem. There's like three different blender rigs out there to make animations, and Sims 4 Studio converts them to animation files. All WW does is play the animations, right?

Explain it to me like I'm stupid, because that's probably the case.

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

  

8 hours ago, Winter Soul said:

@ColonelNutty: You are nothing if not persistent. You ask for freedom to create, to unlock all technical possibilities for the benefit of the community!?.

Personally, I think you're just looking for a back door to implement all of your perverted bestial content...

The game can do without you!

Back door? We're talking about Human Sim rigs, not Animal Sim Rigs, however I do plan to provide the Animal Sim Rigs at the same time, because it'd be hypocritical of me not to.

 

You also need to realize that I make my mods for the community, based on community feedback, I don't even play The Sims 4. The animal content in DD is about 10% of its total content, and DD is about 10% of my total mods, so I'm not sure why you think I only make bestiality content or that it is my only focus. I provide what the community wants. Judging by the number of likes on the first post and the lack of likes on the second post, this is appearing to be something they want.

 

Furthermore, please remember that you are on Lovers Lab, home of a ton of bestiality content. I hope the irony of your comment being on this website is not lost on you.

 

If you still disagree with the idea of separately downloadable rigs, then please put a "like" on the second post. You help no one but yourself by only berating me for offering a community improving suggestion, put your vote in too.

 

1 hour ago, MrGrey said:

I don't understand the problem. There's like three different blender rigs out there to make animations, and Sims 4 Studio converts them to animation files. All WW does is play the animations, right?

Explain it to me like I'm stupid, because that's probably the case.

1. The rigs that are included with Wicked Whims are used by a huge majority of CAS Parts and Animations.
2. Those who make these rigs refuse to share them with people separately and tell them to make addons to Wicked Whims instead. Nobody should be forced to make an addon for a mod if all they need are the bones that come with the rig. Since Rigs are an EA Asset (owned by EA) and an absolutely crucial part of making CAS Parts and Animations, they should not be withholding them.

3. When Wicked Whims suddenly changes the bones on their rig, ALL mods that were made as "addons" have to follow suit. Just look at what happened recently when the rig was changed. The tongue bones and some of the penis tip bones are removed, causing many CAS Parts to stop working, where the penis would stretch really far out or the tongue would just float midair.

4. Not all mod authors can come back to update their CAS Parts or Animations to use the new rigs. Having the ability to use old rigs will let people continue to use those "outdated" CAS Parts and Animations. Imagine not being able to use the CAS Parts you love because they suddenly bug out due to the rig being changed.

5. When you use a rig that is different from Wicked Whims. Wicked Whims throws out a notification telling you that OH NO THERE IS A RIG CONFLICT, WICKED WIHMS IS SAD. This is Wicked Whims telling you that the rig you installed is not approved by Wicked Whims to be used. Wicked Whims is simply an animation player as well as a manager of CAS Parts, it has no business telling the player what rigs they can or cannot use. That should be left up to the player to decide.

 

I've proposed a solution above that will make this "rig conflict" notification obsolete, Turbodriver simply needs to implement it.

Edited June 24, 2022 by ColonolNutty

[DoctaSax]

I will require that this thread stay on topic and not devolve into namecalling.

As far as I can tell the issue is about access and compatibility - forwards, backwards & lateral - which imo makes it a discussion worth having, regardless of anything that happened before.

 

[Pantera2]

11 hours ago, Winter Soul said:

@ColonelNutty: You are nothing if not persistent. You ask for freedom to create, to unlock all technical possibilities for the benefit of the community!?.

Personally, I think you're just looking for a back door to implement all of your perverted bestial content...

The game can do without you!

Says the person with the tiger pfp on LoverLab

[Matthewn]

A thread created to provoke. Your sole purpose is in fact egoistic, you don't do this for the community as a whole but to pursue your own vision with your mods by imposing it on others creators telling them to "share their knowledge" for something they have no interest with.

I am glad Denton, Azmodan, or especially Khlas never answered to this trap. 

Comparing Skyrim with the Sims is stupid. The sims has a very strong social community, the game is still rated Teen, and the modding scene is slightly monitored by the developpers themselves. What you are trying to achieve is creating a mob movement with the loverslab community against WickedWhims once again, because it's the only thing you can and know how to do. Heck, even your discord itself is full of users (and yourself) spitting on WickedWhims and its creator. This should stop once and for all.

You have been banned here, you should keep doing your things in private in your discord and let others modders do whatever they want with their own vision and their own mods. You are free to do your own rigs and do your own creations, no one force you to use the ones from WickedWhims.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Matthewn

[Gambit]

It's sad that there is people trolling on this thread. The recent event proved that the technical approach proposed in this thread is interesting.

 

Some modder in Skyrim SE wanted to impose only on body type, a new über version of CBBE body. They failed and it's a good thing. The choice should remains to people creating content like animation, clothes or armor.

 

[the0fromnexus]

1 hour ago, Matthewn said:

by imposing it on others creators

That is precisely the WW rig, no? Imposed on others? Use it or eat dust?

 

1 hour ago, Matthewn said:

Comparing Skyrim with the Sims is stupid.

It's not, far from it. Both games are highly moddable in their own way, both games have a shitton of NSFW content (hence why both are so prominent on this site), and both are super popular. And both games' devs do monitor their modding scene to some extent.

Yes it's correct that the target player group is different (casual vs. more of a challenge) and sims4 is probably more stable (yay bugthesda), but whatever

Maybe the most important thing to me is that both games when unmodded are boring as hell (FO4 is one notable exception). The base game is an empty canvas and it's *only* the mods that make them interesting.

 

1 hour ago, Matthewn said:

the game is still rated Teen

With WW and a bunch of other mods on this site alone? Haha lolnope, far from it. Also i don't see why a teen rating matters here, as soon as you slap nsfw mods into the game it's pretty much wild west anyways.

 

1 hour ago, Matthewn said:

because it's the only thing you can and know how to do

Apparently writing stable and fast code that doesn't break with updates and that doesn't make loading times skyrocket is a skill you're overlooking. This has nothing to do with this dicussion however.

 

---

1 hour ago, Matthewn said:

Your sole purpose is in fact egoistic, you don't do this for the community as a whole

 

1 hour ago, Matthewn said:

You have been banned here, you should keep doing your things in private

 

1 hour ago, Matthewn said:

What you are trying to achieve is creating a mob movement with the loverslab community against WickedWhims

 

... are you trying to derail the thread? Could you please not?

This kind of accusations are about as fruitful as me rambling about relying on patreon pay vs having a proper day job. This has no place in this topic.

 

34 minutes ago, Gambit said:

The recent event proved that the technical approach proposed in this thread is interesting

That is exactly why i like this discussion. Everyone doing their own thing and then having multiple branches evolve into multiple directions where everything is incompatible with everything else isn't going to lead anywhere.

Think about the home computers in the 80s. Nothing was compatible with anything, sometimes even machines from the same manufacturer were incompatible. Atari couldn't read amiga floppies, etc. -- have we learned nothing, people?

 

tl;dr Competition is good and makes better products, unless it comes at a disadvantantage to the customer. -> Standards are good. Use them if they exist, make them if they don't.

 

I'm no sim modder but a community-maintained skeleton has, as far as i can see, no downsides.

Things that come to mind:

- nobody can throw a tantrum and pull the rug away under everyone's feet

- physics extensions?

- CAS parts not even maxis could imagine

- extra bones? aliens with extra limbs? MULTI COCK PROPELLER? lol

Edited June 24, 2022 by the0fromnexus

[powersexking]

Don't be persuaded by forceful logic. If you need it, make it yourself. I don't care what you make.
In fact, the best thing is indifference. It's a good thing Turbo and other animators don't respond.

[Scorpio]

From an end users point of view...

 

I've had no problems with WW rigs or deformed parts and the old animations still work fine.

 

EA uses proprietary stuff that breaks Mods and CC all the time and the last update was a good example.

If you don't like it, tough.

They don't share their tools, source code, or anything else either.

 

It's all well and good to think 'Sharing is Caring' but in RL it doesn't work that way.

How many other Mod Creators share their secrets with the rest of the world, for the sake of the Community, lol?

 

Whichever direction TURBO decides is fine with me as I remain neutral as it's his Mod and his call.

I don't need it changed so I really don't care about it.

 

I just had to comment that I like WW just fine the way it is, but improvements are always nice.